ADVERTISEMENT

Waino/Home Opener

Eagles_Ball

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2003
12,600
3,482
113
Any chance MO is just throwing Waino a bone here? Waino goes out, needs 108 pitches to get through 5 innings of 9 hit/4 run baseball...and then just DFA's him after the game??? Worst notification I've gotten on my phone in 2018..."Cardinals expected to activate Adam Wainwright (hamstring) from the DL on Thursday; option P Jack Flaherty to Triple-A"...GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!
 
Gave me a giggle when I saw Flaherty marked Not Active in fantasy baseball
 
Flaherty isnt and wont be a dominating pitcher. He pitched extremely well for him during his one outing and he lasted five innings. He doesnt have "electric stuff". But he can be a serviceable pitcher on a second division staff.

Waino's situation is the type that gets managers fired. High priced, popular veteran who has lost it. If he starts strong and has 2 or 3 good outings, that is the worst thing that can happen. The sooner he is out of the rotation the sooner you find out how your young guys will perform on the big stage, the better your decision making.
 
Flaherty isnt and wont be a dominating pitcher. He pitched extremely well for him during his one outing and he lasted five innings. He doesnt have "electric stuff". But he can be a serviceable pitcher on a second division staff.

Waino's situation is the type that gets managers fired. High priced, popular veteran who has lost it. If he starts strong and has 2 or 3 good outings, that is the worst thing that can happen. The sooner he is out of the rotation the sooner you find out how your young guys will perform on the big stage, the better your decision making.
Call me crazy, but if your 5th starter is Jack Flaherty v2018...your rotation is solid.
 
Any chance MO is just throwing Waino a bone here? Waino goes out, needs 108 pitches to get through 5 innings of 9 hit/4 run baseball...and then just DFA's him after the game??? Worst notification I've gotten on my phone in 2018..."Cardinals expected to activate Adam Wainwright (hamstring) from the DL on Thursday; option P Jack Flaherty to Triple-A"...GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!
I don't know. It might be throwing him a bone, but it could be the guy's last home opener in a Cardinal uniform and he looked good and healthy in the spring. Pitched well. Is that a good indicator of things to come? Not at all. But I'm ok with giving him the benefit of the doubt and seeing what happens. He's earned that over the years.
 
I don't know. It might be throwing him a bone, but it could be the guy's last home opener in a Cardinal uniform and he looked good and healthy in the spring. Pitched well. Is that a good indicator of things to come? Not at all. But I'm ok with giving him the benefit of the doubt and seeing what happens. He's earned that over the years.

He has been rewarded with a large salary for crap performance the past 2 seasons. This is season number 3 and its 19 million dollars for an ERA north of 5.
 
He has been rewarded with a large salary for crap performance the past 2 seasons. This is season number 3 and its 19 million dollars for an ERA north of 5.
He's not the only guy to ever sign a bad contract. Not to mention, at the time, it seemed like a steal compared to what he'd get on the open market. Things happen. He's still one of the top 5 best starters in team history.
 
Perhaps a bit long, but it was likely a better deal in overall value than he would have fetched on the open market. That was still when teams threw big $$$ at proven veterans.

I am hoping he can complete 4 innings in one of his starts this year. When a guy has to throw that many curve balls to get through the first two innings its time to FREAKIN RETIRE.
 
Perhaps a bit long, but it was likely a better deal in overall value than he would have fetched on the open market. That was still when teams threw big $$$ at proven veterans.
He was a year from free agency. You should get a little discount when signing a guy to what is effectively a 6 year deal. It’s part of why the Yadi extension was a little crazy too. The deals assume consistent performance over a very long time for a player of that age
 
I am hoping he can complete 4 innings in one of his starts this year. When a guy has to throw that many curve balls to get through the first two innings its time to FREAKIN RETIRE.
I thought the strike zone was really tight and the hitters were being really patient. He struggled at times, but overall I didn't feel too bad about that start. He had good velocity and his curveball looked closer to the old version rather than last year's. Should he have been able to adapt to the smaller zone and be ok? Sure. But it was also his first start in a couple weeks due to the hammy. It wasn't a great start, but it surely could have been a lot worse.
 
He was a year from free agency. You should get a little discount when signing a guy to what is effectively a 6 year deal. It’s part of why the Yadi extension was a little crazy too. The deals assume consistent performance over a very long time for a player of that age
Come on man, you act like no one else makes a bad contract decision or overpays a bit to keep a guy around and avoid him hitting the market. Look at the deal Blackmon just signed.
 
Come on man, you act like no one else makes a bad contract decision or overpays a bit to keep a guy around and avoid him hitting the market. Look at the deal Blackmon just signed.
It was a great night at the ballpark until the game started. My first opening day and it is all it's made out to be. Yadi has done nothing to this point that would make you think this was a bad contract. Time will tell!
 
I thought the strike zone was really tight and the hitters were being really patient. He struggled at times, but overall I didn't feel too bad about that start. He had good velocity and his curveball looked closer to the old version rather than last year's. Should he have been able to adapt to the smaller zone and be ok? Sure. But it was also his first start in a couple weeks due to the hammy. It wasn't a great start, but it surely could have been a lot worse.
Dude...He needed 89 pitches to get through 3 2/3. A guy who once had great control either walks a ton of batters, or gets frozen ropes hit all over the yard on him. His fastball is no longer fast, but is straight. His cutter spins and he has ZERO control of it, can't locate it at all. And his hammer is no longer a big biting 12-6, it's very loopy. He's done, and everyone knows it. I think even he knows it, but he's a competitor and won't give it up. His best bet is to pull an Andy Benes, learn the splitty or some other gimmick pitch and try to get outs...from the bullpen...in lopsided games.
 
It was a great night at the ballpark until the game started. My first opening day and it is all it's made out to be. Yadi has done nothing to this point that would make you think this was a bad contract. Time will tell!
It really is awesome, huh? I've gone to one home opener, and I was just blown away. And I'm not really one of those guys to walk around with his mouth open in awe. But I did that day.
 
Dude...He needed 89 pitches to get through 3 2/3. A guy who once had great control either walks a ton of batters, or gets frozen ropes hit all over the yard on him. His fastball is no longer fast, but is straight. His cutter spins and he has ZERO control of it, can't locate it at all. And his hammer is no longer a big biting 12-6, it's very loopy. He's done, and everyone knows it. I think even he knows it, but he's a competitor and won't give it up. His best bet is to pull an Andy Benes, learn the splitty or some other gimmick pitch and try to get outs...from the bullpen...in lopsided games.
Did we watch the same game? He struggled after the 1st 2 innings, but I really thought he was getting squeezed in those first two. He made some pretty good pitches that were called balls that I thought should have been strikes or at the least were borderline and could have gone either way. It was 1 start. CMart was awful in his first start. Granted, he's in his prime, but let's give the guy a few starts to base things upon before we go burying him. If he continues to struggle after, say, 3 or 4 starts, I think it's time to move him to the bullpen and bring up Flaherty.
 
Come on man, you act like no one else makes a bad contract decision or overpays a bit to keep a guy around and avoid him hitting the market. Look at the deal Blackmon just signed.
I didn't say they overpaid some tremendous amount, just that it didn't look like a super amazing deal at the time it was signed the way that, say, the recent Carlos Martinez extension did.

The last years are basically always the worst on these super long term deals. Look at the Holliday contract. You just hope they put up enough value over the first 2-3 years of the deal.
 
Dude...He needed 89 pitches to get through 3 2/3. A guy who once had great control either walks a ton of batters, or gets frozen ropes hit all over the yard on him. His fastball is no longer fast, but is straight. His cutter spins and he has ZERO control of it, can't locate it at all. And his hammer is no longer a big biting 12-6, it's very loopy. He's done, and everyone knows it. I think even he knows it, but he's a competitor and won't give it up. His best bet is to pull an Andy Benes, learn the splitty or some other gimmick pitch and try to get outs...from the bullpen...in lopsided games.
This is why I hope to see him pitch against the Cubs often this season
 
I didn't say they overpaid some tremendous amount, just that it didn't look like a super amazing deal at the time it was signed the way that, say, the recent Carlos Martinez extension did.

The last years are basically always the worst on these super long term deals. Look at the Holliday contract. You just hope they put up enough value over the first 2-3 years of the deal.
Big difference. They bought out some of CMart's arbitration years for guaranteed $ now. Those deals always look better when they sign them. It's the same type of deal for Pauly D. If he performs, it will be a steal. Even if he's average, it's not a bad contract at all. The guys who have passed arbitration and will be free agents are the ones who you have to overpay to keep.
 
Oh dear god. Since the start of 2016 70 pitchers have thrown at least 300 innings .
He is 54th in strikeout rate. He is in the 60's in ERA, swing and miss rate and several other relevant criteria. He has had 57 starts. That isnt a small sample size. It is over. the sooner we admit that and move on the more games we win in 2018. Shouldnt that be the goal?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eagles_Ball
Did we watch the same game? He struggled after the 1st 2 innings, but I really thought he was getting squeezed in those first two. He made some pretty good pitches that were called balls that I thought should have been strikes or at the least were borderline and could have gone either way. It was 1 start. CMart was awful in his first start. Granted, he's in his prime, but let's give the guy a few starts to base things upon before we go burying him. If he continues to struggle after, say, 3 or 4 starts, I think it's time to move him to the bullpen and bring up Flaherty.
See Ducky's post below. It's not like this start in 2018 hasn't happened a crap ton in 2017 and 2016. There's a HUGE pattern.
 
Big difference. They bought out some of CMart's arbitration years for guaranteed $ now. Those deals always look better when they sign them. It's the same type of deal for Pauly D. If he performs, it will be a steal. Even if he's average, it's not a bad contract at all. The guys who have passed arbitration and will be free agents are the ones who you have to overpay to keep.
The real Martinez value comes from the option years - he gave away a lot of potential upside in 2022 and 2023.
 
Oh dear god. Since the start of 2016 70 pitchers have thrown at least 300 innings .
He is 54th in strikeout rate. He is in the 60's in ERA, swing and miss rate and several other relevant criteria. He has had 57 starts. That isnt a small sample size. It is over. the sooner we admit that and move on the more games we win in 2018. Shouldnt that be the goal?
He just can't throw it hard enough anymore. Yeah. It sure looks like the end is coming.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT