The tone of your posts have been especially condescending. I am a baseball fan. I dont know what the hell you are.
VB
- Thread starter Duck_walk
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The tone of your posts have been especially condescending. I am a baseball fan. I dont know what the hell you are.
I can't swear to it, but pretty sure I've heard MO speak of it. That'd create some more flexibility with assets too. Wisdom/Dejong/Diaz/. Grichuk/Piscotty/Pham/Sierra/Martinez/Voit. Hard to believe all will still be around. Not sure any bring a ton, depending on what you move. But there's likely a Bowman or two to be had from some of that movement.
But yet your constant denial of money and metrics aren't? Ducky, dude, you're better than this. EVERY SINGLE TEAM in MLB uses metrics to the Nth degree now. Just look at what the Stros did with the same formula that built the Birds minor league system.
We freakin ALL know this. We arent children. But these needs didnt just pop up.
They have been evident for two seasons.
We have blown two opportunities to be a wild card team. One freakin game out last year and another close one now. The moves you listed could have already been made.
I never said metrics were bad. If that is your job use the hell out of them. I just dont care to hear about them. I watch for the art not the science. And you can trajectory and launch angle the hell out of Grichuk and he still sucks. The focus on those metrics has made mlb end up with fewer balls in play and less action. True or false?
Have the Cardinals finished just short of the playoffs two years in a row? Then whatever metrics we used to NOT make a worthwhile deal need to be eliminated.
False. The focus on pitchers that blow absolute gas has contributed to that more so than any other factor.
Yes, they have. I think worthwhile is a key term.
One can make a pretty good argument that Luhnow leaving was far more impactful to the Birds than Jocketty leaving.
Couldn't agree more. He's either really damned good at what he does or got lucky...twice.
Increased recognition of the value of a walk also came into play here. Teams realized working the count is valuable.
You keep focusing on metrics as some easy boogeyman for why they are missing the playoffs. Every decent metric out there showed the Cardinals falling short of the postseason in their March 2017 projections - especially once Reyes went down for the year. At the very least, no one put us in the same class as the Nats, Dodgers, or Cubs preseason.
Unless the Cardinals have really bad metrics that overvalue their players - which I doubt they do given how good the public baseball metrics are for hitting and pitching plus the Cards knowledge that the team wasn't exactly awesome at defense in 2016 - the bigger questions relate to why they constructed a roster that wasn't better than it looked to be on paper - both by the eye test and the numbers. Was it roster constraints? Inability to get a fair price in a trade? Payroll limits?
A fan who wants the team to be better for the next 10 years so it can win a WS in that timeframe. Not someone who blindly wants to be all in this year just to try to get a wild card if it sacrifices too much of the future.
A fan remembers 1989. We are at the end of a successful decade and have a chance to be in the playoffs but they wont give Maxvill the funds needed to make a deal for a reliever down the stretch so we let the Cubs win the division. Didnt make the playoffs for several more years after that. When you dont take the bull by the horns when you are close thats what you end up with. Making a move or two to win this year and maintaining a strong farm system and competing for the next decade are not mutually exclusive when you have lots of cash. STL has the resources.
Should they have done more in November 2016 - March 2017 given what the team projected to be? Why not? This team is making a ton of money and already fleeced the taxpayers for a stadium and some restaurants.
The financial question is sorta moot by July 2017, though, when you're already 5 games behind the Cubs and 7 out of the wildcard. Rationally, even if you want to dump $5-10 million in, why not just dump it in the team in 2018 when you're starting out 0-0? My question is, are they willing to do that? That's what I care about.
I'd say that to my dad. All of the posts from you and VB about OMG JD MARTINEZ WE COULD HAVE HAD HIM are not realistic criticisms of the team. We were five games out behind a team that was clearly better than us, and 7 games ish out of the wildcard. There was no real reason for the Cards to trade for him unless he was under contract past 2017.
I get it, it would be fun to have him, but it's not a fair criticism of the Front Office and Ownership if your viewpoint is something like "are the Cards more or less likely to win a WS in the next five years if they do or do not trade for Martinez?" The better answer is spending the money and prospects you'd have spent on him on someone else in the offseason before 2018. And that's what I want them to do as a fan.
If anything, the Cards should have sold more than they did, not be Buyers. They should have sold Lynn.
5 games out in July is not close. Especially when the team in front of you is the defending WS champ.
I value your opinion about baseball about the same as I did about the 2016 election. When I told you 6 months before the election that working men would not vote for HRC. You were a know it all arrogant prick then too and you were wrong so I put you on ignore. Five games in July is nothing. Seven games in July is nothing if you believe in your system and your players. Hell the Cardinals caught the Cubs in August. Do you even watch the team?
Have you ever managed or coached a team of athletes? I didnt think so. They arent numbers. They can be inspired by front office moves and those around them.
We trade for Martinez, we are probably in the wild card. Your opinion dont mean squat. Ignored.
Take your ball and go home, it's not going to hurt my feelings any.
Seven games in July is nothing if you believe in your system and your players...that's the thing, a rational team DOESN'T believe that. They believe they are more likely than not to miss out on the playoffs. 7 games is a ton to make up in 60 games.
The Cards won 8 straight games and caught the 'mighty Cubs.' If they hadn't went back in the dumpster and lost 6 of the next 7 they would be in the playoffs! The Cubs were NOT so much better than anybody in the division until later in the season. Milwaukee was in 1st place for a LONG time while the Cubs hung around the .500 mark. This division was up for grabs until about 2 weeks ago.
Exactly. Some say we were "out of it in July". Hell we caught them in August. Bizarre.
Am I the only one that realizes that's why they keep track of standing over the course of the entire season. If a team wins 8 or 10 in a row, it's pretty likely to lose more than they win for the next series or two. Ebbs and flows. Especially if they've basically been a .500 team for 100 games or so. This isn't rocket science.
Also, you have to judge based upon what the probability was when you could trade. 3R wouldn't be posting that if the Cards had done what the Rays did since the deadline.
The Cards have been a ~84-87 win team in terms of talent and performance for about 2 years running now.
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