Talent on Mizzou's basketball roster

[wcowherd]

Shamelessly stolen from a post on PowerMizzou, but I thought it was quite informative.

KenPom added a cool feature a couple of years ago that compares profiles of players. It's not perfect, but it's a nice tool to see how a roster is performing. Here's how MU's key cogs measure up right now:

• Kevin Puryear | Jacoby Armstrong (2015, New Hampshire), Dom Morris (2012, Boston University), Marc Eddy-Noreilla (2015, North Florida), Greg Logis (2009, Canisus)

• Terrence Phillips | Steven Moore (2008, Little Rock), Chris Chiozza (2016, Florida), Marcus Burton (2013, Wagner), Austin Hamilton (2013, Elon), Jabari Sandifer (2015, Western Illinois)

• Cullen VanLeer | Milan Prodanovic (2008, Iona), Gerald McLemore (2010, Maine), Jake Diebler (2007, Valparaiso), Antonio Green (2010, Eastern Michigan)

• Russell Woods | Martin Klimes (2007, Vermont), Clint Hopf (2011, Evansville), Jayme Miller (2008, Cal State-Northridge), T.J. McHugh (2003, Yale), David Booker (2011, Tulane)

• K.J. Walton | Daviin Davis (2007, Weber State), Nick Murphy (2009, Jacksonville State), Jalen Pendleton (2014, Southern Illinois), Reggie Wilhite (2010, Yale), Cedric Smith (2011, Savannah State)

• Frankie Hughes | Dylan Smith (2016, UNC-Asheville), Spencer Collins (2013, Wofford), Reggie Holmes (2008, Morgan State), Keith McDougald (2011, Jacksonville), Marshawn Wilson (2016, Northern Illinois)

Basically, this roster is performing in the vein of a low-major or struggling mid-major. Again, this tool isn't perfect, but it's another lens through which to look through at where this program is at the moment.

For example, Puryear would be the best player on a New Hampshire team that went 19-13 two seasons ago and a Canisus team that went 11-20 in 2009. Or: Phillips would have been a vital member of Steve Shields 2008 squad at UALR, which went 20-11 in the Sun Belt.

Perhaps a new coach could turn pieces of the existing roster into contributors on a solid Power Five team, but it's going to take a couple recruiting cycles to really overhaul it.

 

[Rufus R. Jones]

I am no Mizzou fan, and haven't watched them much this year. But my hunch is that the talent level of players 1-10 on the roster is not that of most major conference programs, not even the SEC. No opinion of whether they should keep Coach Anderson, I really don't care. But the talent level doesn't appear to be good. and it's not football, it doesn't take 5 years to overhaul a roster. People do it in 2-3 all the time.

 

[you_dont_know_me]

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/sec/university-of-missouri/article121341618.html

 

[you_dont_know_me]

Yeah. Ka's done

 

[wcowherd]

Bye bye Kim.

 

[Neutron Monster]

Tigers just can't score at all and are brutal to watch. This team needs offensive talent.

 

[wcowherd]

When Kim is mercifully fired at the end of the year, the next coach is going to have to purge this roster and bring in players that can actually put the ball in the basket. So much for leaving the job better than he found it.

 

[you_dont_know_me]

I'm holding out hope we can win SOME games this year. But, yeah, we stink.

 

[trifecta0323]

You have to understand. Haith left the program in a mess with NCAA violations and then you have the mess with the football team last year. NOBODY wants to coach or play at Mizzou right now. Better to let Kim finish the next 2 years on his contract and see what happens.

 

[trifecta0323]

Yeah. Ka's done

You have to understand. Haith left the program in a mess with NCAA violations and the thing with the football team. NOBODY wants to coach or play at Mizzou right now. Better to let Kim finish the next 2 years on his contract and see what happens.

 

[Rufus R. Jones]

You have to understand. Haith left the program in a mess with NCAA violations and the thing with the football team. NOBODY wants to coach or play at Mizzou right now. Better to let Kim finish the next 2 years on his contract and see what happens.

Yeah, the two flagship programs in the athletic department, from a fan base and revenue standpoint, have been running amok for years, in an attempt to achieve above average results. Now they are in shambles, and in a mess with the NCAA, for cheating. Neither job is highly regarded at this point. That's why they have two MU alum as head coaches. Nobody with any kind of resume wants either job.

 

[hangmanbobbyjaggers]

Let KA finish out this year, then steal Travis Ford from SLU. SLU can move up their assistant and not miss a beat. Both sides wins.

 

[wcowherd]

Let KA finish out this year, then steal Travis Ford from SLU. SLU can move up their assistant and not miss a beat. Both sides wins.

Mizzou can do better than Travis Ford.

 

[trifecta0323]

No way do I want Travis Ford. Not a good coach.

 

[hangmanbobbyjaggers]

Mizzou can do better than Travis Ford.

Omg.... who in the heck would want that job right now? Best thing they can hope for is that Washington let's their coach go and he comes to Mu with the Porters... not to wish bad luck on coach Romar

 

[EdSmith1234]

Open the Check Book and Pay for a good coach. Mizzou has all that SEC money!

 

[faurotfield]

Omg.... who in the heck would want that job right now? Best thing they can hope for is that Washington let's their coach go and he comes to Mu with the Porters... not to wish bad luck on coach Romar

Romar hasn't made the tournament in something like 5 years. That wouldn't be an inspiring hire. Hard to know with a new AD, but I would expect them to look at coaches like Kevin Keatts at UNC-Wilmington, Will Wade at VCU, Matt McCall at Chattanooga, Pat Kelsey at Winthrop. Some good mid-major guys available who don't make a whole lot (relative to the market) and have inexpensive buyouts. If they make a run at an established guy and try to pay lots of money, I think they could check in at Cal on Cuonzo Martin but ultimately I see him leaving Berkeley for the Big Ten.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

I think they could check in at Cal on Cuonzo Martin but ultimately I see him leaving Berkeley for the Big Ten.

I've heard that name a lot. Here's what I don't get, he makes about $2M. Coach Odom makes about $2.3M. They're not going to pay the hoops coach more than the football coach. Unless they want to give the football coach a raise after a 3 or 4 win season.

 

[faurotfield]

I've heard that name a lot. Here's what I don't get, he makes about $2M. Coach Odom makes about $2.3M. They're not going to pay the hoops coach more than the football coach. Unless they want to give the football coach a raise after a 3 or 4 win season.

I have no idea about the salary that MU is willing to pay a new coach, but I don't think Odom's pay causes some sort of hierarchical issue. He'll get a new deal when he has more success, which I expect to happen.That was an issue in the past when GP was coming off of the Cotton Bowl win in the spring of 2014 and we were having conversations with Gregg Marshall (he talks to everyone). That would have sped up the new deal which Pinkel eventually got. But there is no comparison between Barry and Gary at this point. One is a second year HC in his first ever job and the other is the all-time wins leader at two FBS schools.

If we have the ability to get a big name and pay let's say $3 million in March to do it, I don't think we would have to do anything with Barry's salary. I would be pretty disappointed if that is a roadblock and I am a football first guy.

Speaking about Cuonzo though, I think he signed a new deal that has a bigger buyout. I'm not sure it is the right situation. Back in 2011 it would have been perhaps. But I don't see it now.

 

[metro-dude]

Romar hasn't made the tournament in something like 5 years. That wouldn't be an inspiring hire. Hard to know with a new AD, but I would expect them to look at coaches like Kevin Keatts at UNC-Wilmington, Will Wade at VCU, Matt McCall at Chattanooga, Pat Kelsey at Winthrop. Some good mid-major guys available who don't make a whole lot (relative to the market) and have inexpensive buyouts. If they make a run at an established guy and try to pay lots of money, I think they could check in at Cal on Cuonzo Martin but ultimately I see him leaving Berkeley for the Big Ten.

Would it be possible for Kim to remain as head coach if he removed all of his asst. coaches and hired coaches who can recruit @ the D-1 level? The Missouri roster has lots of D-2 talent but few D-1 talent who can win in the SEC. When you ask the question, what is going on @ Missouri. I get many different answers. Here's my take--Kim and his asst. coaches are not a good match. The asst. coaches @ Missouri are either " Yes Coaches " or giving Kim the wrong advice when recruiting players who can win in the SEC. Kim should not be doing favors when hiring asst. coaches. Kim has two asst. coaches with no D-1 experience in recruiting when they were hired.

Kim has a salary of 1.1 million dollars. This is about three times his salary @ Central Missouri State. Kim's big Opportunity came when he was hired @ Missouri as head coach but wrong choices in hiring asst, coaches and player recruitment may place Kim into early retirement.

 

[Neutron Monster]

Realistically, who is going to come work for Kim that is any good unless you back up a Brinks truck full of cash? Even in that scenario he's a year from probably getting canned. No one with a stable job is going to come because they know they'd probably get fired in a year.

The clock is running out for Kim - if they go 4-14 in the SEC, I doubt he survives.

 

[faurotfield]

Would it be possible for Kim to remain as head coach if he removed all of his asst. coaches and hired coaches who can recruit @ the D-1 level?

That might have been an option last year or the year before, but not now. Not a fan of an AD doing that in general (hire the head coach and let them run things). I think if KA was given that ultimatum he would opt to retire.

I think your analysis of his assistant coaching hires is spot on. He needed someone with better connections. He should have only taken one of Fulford/Loos. I like both and think they can both be good coaches, but it was too much to take a career D2 assistant and a prep school coach.

The whole situation is a real shame. It was doomed to fail from day one. He's someone I have immense respect for both his playing career at MU as well as what he did at UCM. He is a horrible fit for the MU job though.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

I have no idea about the salary that MU is willing to pay a new coach, but I don't think Odom's pay causes some sort of hierarchical issue. He'll get a new deal when he has more success, which I expect to happen.That was an issue in the past when GP was coming off of the Cotton Bowl win in the spring of 2014 and we were having conversations with Gregg Marshall (he talks to everyone). That would have sped up the new deal which Pinkel eventually got. But there is no comparison between Barry and Gary at this point. One is a second year HC in his first ever job and the other is the all-time wins leader at two FBS schools.

If we have the ability to get a big name and pay let's say $3 million in March to do it, I don't think we would have to do anything with Barry's salary. I would be pretty disappointed if that is a roadblock and I am a football first guy.

Speaking about Cuonzo though, I think he signed a new deal that has a bigger buyout. I'm not sure it is the right situation. Back in 2011 it would have been perhaps. But I don't see it now.

Basically what I'm saying is...MU isn't likely to pay a hoops coach more than the football coach. Only one SEC hoops coach makes more than the football coach. And MU isn't hiring anybody like Cal, so that's not really an option.

 

[hangmanbobbyjaggers]

Romar hasn't made the tournament in something like 5 years. That wouldn't be an inspiring hire. Hard to know with a new AD, but I would expect them to look at coaches like Kevin Keatts at UNC-Wilmington, Will Wade at VCU, Matt McCall at Chattanooga, Pat Kelsey at Winthrop. Some good mid-major guys available who don't make a whole lot (relative to the market) and have inexpensive buyouts. If they make a run at an established guy and try to pay lots of money, I think they could check in at Cal on Cuonzo Martin but ultimately I see him leaving Berkeley for the Big Ten.

Yeh but he can recruit and has the Porters waiting in line for the next couple of years which could change the culture of any team immediately.

 

[faurotfield]

Yeh but he can recruit and has the Porters waiting in line for the next couple of years which could change the culture of any team immediately.

I think that Mack Rhoades really tried to make this happen last spring. Romar was in Missouri watching Tolton play in the Sectional game. Supposedly Mack met with him. My hope (probably unlikely) is that if Romar is let go by UW that the new MU coach can find a way to get Porter Sr. on his staff and the Porter pipeline to MU can stay open. Won't happen though.

 

[Neutron Monster]

Basically what I'm saying is...MU isn't likely to pay a hoops coach more than the football coach. Only one SEC hoops coach makes more than the football coach. And MU isn't hiring anybody like Cal, so that's not really an option.

I think it is easier to do this now than it would have been with Pinkel, but it would have to be a huge name with an established track record to where Odom had no right to complain.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

I think it is easier to do this now than it would have been with Pinkel, but it would have to be a huge name with an established track record to where Odom had no right to complain.

Fair point. I guess now the question would be if they can get that kind of coach. I have my doubts, but also hope they can.