Schumer introduces pot bill

[kaskaskiakid]

Chuck Schumer has introduced a bill to remove marijuana from the list of federally controlled substances. Note the bill does not "legalize" marijuana nationally, but rather allows states to pass their own laws that are not in conflict with federal law. The bill would allow a federal tax on marijuana and allow the pot industry access to the banking system. Currently, 33 states have legalized marijuana for medical use, and 16 states have legal recreational pot - all in defiance of federal controlled substances laws. The industry has to hide money currently because of FDIC banking laws.

It's time has come!!

 

[bullitpdq68]

The war on drugs needs to end, the cost to wage it is probable more than it saves...

 

[Expect2Win]

Will those people who got fired in the white house get their jobs back?

 

[BorisSutherland]

That's excellent news. As a cannabis lover, I am glad to hear that. I don't know what about you guys, but I really enjoy using these products. I see this as an excellent way to relax and get rid of the stress after a long working day. Personally, I am buying cannabis products from the edibles in Canada website. With this decriminalization, buying edibles has become much more accessible. What about you guys. What opinion do you have about cannabis products and about decriminalization in general?

 

[MGHS]

Working in the Mental health field ....I do see the horrible side of it. It does a lot more damage than the Media and Pop culture likes to portray. We know that smoking before the brain is fully developed increases the Chances of mental illness by 70+ percent.
What makes me laugh sometimes is the people who promote weed as a cure all for all ill's, are now basically making the same claims that Big Tobacco use to make about their all natural grown Leafy plant. It's benefits past the surface feel good effects are dubious at best.

Now with that said I have no problem with legalizing it, taxing it, and letting states regulate it and Insurance companies/Business decide how they want to address it when it comes to healthcare and such. I would say the extra premium payment will be a huge boom to the Health Insurance companies bottom line, as it will be easy to test for and will probably become a hidden qualifier for many companies for employment and benefits.

Once big corporations take over they and the Gov. will have a huge incentive to drive out the illegal side of the business and will use draconian methods to stop the illegal drug trade in left handed cigs. Not unlike how the Corporations ran the Mob out of Vegas. It will make it better IMO, safer, regulated and controlled.

As far as using....I have never even touched the stuff. Been around a lot of people who do and they are always shocked I've never tried it. I then tell them what Part of Me makes you think that I want to be laid back and zoned out? My personality is being a hard charger.....give Me a 5th of whiskey, Rock and Roll and let's go blow some Shat UP on the weekends.

Not judging but..I've never had a day in my life where I come home and was stressed out or needed to relax with any type of chemical substance/Liquor ...that's just my mental make up and I understand I'm lucky on that account. Most people don't operate that way so I empathize with people who don't have my mental outlook.

When my Ex-was in renal failure, on dialysis and everyone thought I'd be a widower with two daughters under the age of 12, people thought I was repressing my stress and issues because of my normal behavior and continued good sense of humor.

They saw little to no change in my behavior. Which most deemed as abnormal but I kept telling them I wasn't repressing stuff I was using coping skills to address all the negative outcomes and forming plans for the worst case scenario.

That doing anything else was counter productive and being overly distraught would do nobody any good. Sure I was sad, sure I was a bit scared but the only course of action that made logical sense was to be prepared and move forward. It's called life.

But I do understand that a lot of people in this day and age believe they need medication to get by and some do need it. It's not surprising that Americans consume almost all Psychotropics world wide and why MJ is also so popular as many people turn to it to self medicate as the development of coping skills at a early age has become rare. Far easier to get a pill and drink or smoke than to address issues and deal with them.

I know this comes across a a bit preachy and such. But As I said legalizing it is fine and has benefits and consuming it on a once a week bases or bi-weekly bases in social setting is also fine. Using it daily IMO and backed by clinical research isn't healthy by any stretch of the imagination as THC loves to linger in Fat Cells and reduces the grey matter in your brain. Using any substance daily can and does lead to a physical and mental addiction. Of course there are degree's of addiction and smaller levels of addiction doesn't mean you can't lead a productive life.

Now Is it any worse than Drinking a 6pk-12pk of beer a day? Probably a push as both have long term effects and issues as does any vice, that includes the Over Consumption of Sweet Sugary drinks to get by and feel that dopamine release.

I 100% support your right for edible consumption under the law.

 

[kaskaskiakid]

Smoking pot increases the chance of mental illness by 70%????? There must be a lot of mentally ill hippies running around!! Source??? One study does not prove anything.

Regarding big corps taking over pot sales and eliminating the black market - it is much easier to grow your own pot than to make your own booze. You would be surprised how many people are legally growing in their basements. Right now.$150 for a med use card and another $150 for a grow permit, $1,000 will get you all the grow lights, humidifiers, and other equipment needed to grow, and allowed to grow 6 plants. Harvesting at a minimum of 1/4 lb per plant, and 1.5 lbs from 6 plants is more than even a heavy smoker can smoke in a year. Indoor growers can harvest a crop every 6 months. Seeds can be bought online right now from overseas only (still illegal to buy seeds in the US) for $10 per seed for strains as potent as any that can be bought in US dispensaries.

Growing your own would eliminate the black market. I agree it should be regulated and not make it readily accessible to teenagers. But like booze, it will always be easy for teens to find pot. But adults should be able to put a couple plants in the garden for personal use.

 

[bullitpdq68]

Smoking pot increases the chance of mental illness by 70%????? There must be a lot of mentally ill hippies running around!! Source??? One study does not prove anything.

Regarding big corps taking over pot sales and eliminating the black market - it is much easier to grow your own pot than to make your own booze. You would be surprised how many people are legally growing in their basements. Right now.$150 for a med use card and another $150 for a grow permit, $1,000 will get you all the grow lights, humidifiers, and other equipment needed to grow, and allowed to grow 6 plants. Harvesting at a minimum of 1/4 lb per plant, and 1.5 lbs from 6 plants is more than even a heavy smoker can smoke in a year. Indoor growers can harvest a crop every 6 months. Seeds can be bought online right now from overseas only (still illegal to buy seeds in the US) for $10 per seed for strains as potent as any that can be bought in US dispensaries.

Growing your own would eliminate the black market. I agree it should be regulated and not make it readily accessible to teenagers. But like booze, it will always be easy for teens to find pot. But adults should be able to put a couple plants in the garden for personal use.

While I have never tried pot, it smells like skunk to me...
I know when I was in school Pot was easier to get than booze...Way more kids were stoned in the 80's than drunk...

 

[3Rfan]

Working in the Mental health field ....I do see the horrible side of it. It does a lot more damage than the Media and Pop culture likes to portray. We know that smoking before the brain is fully developed increases the Chances of mental illness by 70+ percent.
What makes me laugh sometimes is the people who promote weed as a cure all for all ill's, are now basically making the same claims that Big Tobacco use to make about their all natural grown Leafy plant. It's benefits past the surface feel good effects are dubious at best.

Now with that said I have no problem with legalizing it, taxing it, and letting states regulate it and Insurance companies/Business decide how they want to address it when it comes to healthcare and such. I would say the extra premium payment will be a huge boom to the Health Insurance companies bottom line, as it will be easy to test for and will probably become a hidden qualifier for many companies for employment and benefits.

Once big corporations take over they and the Gov. will have a huge incentive to drive out the illegal side of the business and will use draconian methods to stop the illegal drug trade in left handed cigs. Not unlike how the Corporations ran the Mob out of Vegas. It will make it better IMO, safer, regulated and controlled.

As far as using....I have never even touched the stuff. Been around a lot of people who do and they are always shocked I've never tried it. I then tell them what Part of Me makes you think that I want to be laid back and zoned out? My personality is being a hard charger.....give Me a 5th of whiskey, Rock and Roll and let's go blow some Shat UP on the weekends.

Not judging but..I've never had a day in my life where I come home and was stressed out or needed to relax with any type of chemical substance/Liquor ...that's just my mental make up and I understand I'm lucky on that account. Most people don't operate that way so I empathize with people who don't have my mental outlook.

When my Ex-was in renal failure, on dialysis and everyone thought I'd be a widower with two daughters under the age of 12, people thought I was repressing my stress and issues because of my normal behavior and continued good sense of humor.

They saw little to no change in my behavior. Which most deemed as abnormal but I kept telling them I wasn't repressing stuff I was using coping skills to address all the negative outcomes and forming plans for the worst case scenario.

That doing anything else was counter productive and being overly distraught would do nobody any good. Sure I was sad, sure I was a bit scared but the only course of action that made logical sense was to be prepared and move forward. It's called life.

But I do understand that a lot of people in this day and age believe they need medication to get by and some do need it. It's not surprising that Americans consume almost all Psychotropics world wide and why MJ is also so popular as many people turn to it to self medicate as the development of coping skills at a early age has become rare. Far easier to get a pill and drink or smoke than to address issues and deal with them.

I know this comes across a a bit preachy and such. But As I said legalizing it is fine and has benefits and consuming it on a once a week bases or bi-weekly bases in social setting is also fine. Using it daily IMO and backed by clinical research isn't healthy by any stretch of the imagination as THC loves to linger in Fat Cells and reduces the grey matter in your brain. Using any substance daily can and does lead to a physical and mental addiction. Of course there are degree's of addiction and smaller levels of addiction doesn't mean you can't lead a productive life.

Now Is it any worse than Drinking a 6pk-12pk of beer a day? Probably a push as both have long term effects and issues as does any vice, that includes the Over Consumption of Sweet Sugary drinks to get by and feel that dopamine release.

I 100% support your right for edible consumption under the law.

Dude you even go for the long haul at 2:30 in the morning! 🤣 Must have your own stash.

 

[MGHS]

Dude you even go for the long haul at 2:30 in the morning! 🤣 Must have your own stash.

LOL .....but really I'd be a tweaker not a Stoner AHHHHHH no teeth. But Losing a Few pounds would be nice.

Truth is I have never required more than 4-5 hours of Sleep.....It weirds me out that people sleep 8-10 hours at a time. Use to weird my Dad out he grew up on a Farm so he put me and my Brother to Bed early even when we was in Junior High Bed by 8:30pm,9 pm to 9;30 pm in high School except when Games where happening. He was always in bed by 9:30pm on non-game nights.

He'd come check on us at Night usually around Midnight when he went to Bathroom and I'd say Hi Dad.....he just groan then He got up at 5pm like he was on the Farm and I'd Be like Hi Dad.....He'd rant when do you sleep. I said 12 to 5 that's a strong 5 hours and it's all any person needs. Drove him nuts.

 

[MGHS]

Smoking pot increases the chance of mental illness by 70%????? There must be a lot of mentally ill hippies running around!! Source??? One study does not prove anything.

Regarding big corps taking over pot sales and eliminating the black market - it is much easier to grow your own pot than to make your own booze. You would be surprised how many people are legally growing in their basements. Right now.$150 for a med use card and another $150 for a grow permit, $1,000 will get you all the grow lights, humidifiers, and other equipment needed to grow, and allowed to grow 6 plants. Harvesting at a minimum of 1/4 lb per plant, and 1.5 lbs from 6 plants is more than even a heavy smoker can smoke in a year. Indoor growers can harvest a crop every 6 months. Seeds can be bought online right now from overseas only (still illegal to buy seeds in the US) for $10 per seed for strains as potent as any that can be bought in US dispensaries.

Growing your own would eliminate the black market. I agree it should be regulated and not make it readily accessible to teenagers. But like booze, it will always be easy for teens to find pot. But adults should be able to put a couple plants in the garden for personal use

Smoking pot increases the chance of mental illness by 70%????? There must be a lot of mentally ill hippies running around!! Source??? One study does not prove anything.

Regarding big corps taking over pot sales and eliminating the black market - it is much easier to grow your own pot than to make your own booze. You would be surprised how many people are legally growing in their basements. Right now.$150 for a med use card and another $150 for a grow permit, $1,000 will get you all the grow lights, humidifiers, and other equipment needed to grow, and allowed to grow 6 plants. Harvesting at a minimum of 1/4 lb per plant, and 1.5 lbs from 6 plants is more than even a heavy smoker can smoke in a year. Indoor growers can harvest a crop every 6 months. Seeds can be bought online right now from overseas only (still illegal to buy seeds in the US) for $10 per seed for strains as potent as any that can be bought in US dispensaries.

Growing your own would eliminate the black market. I agree it should be regulated and not make it readily accessible to teenagers. But like booze, it will always be easy for teens to find pot. But adults should be able to put a couple plants in the garden for personal use.

Yeah there is a lot of mentally ill folks with Major Depression and other issues from the 60's and 70's.. ...and it's more than one study. The Germans did a very in depth study into the subject in early 2000's we still use the literature because it's probably the most thorough study done to date.....Can't find a link but this one entails some of it. One of the main issues is that America doesn't really do MJ research above the surface level.

Is there a link between marijuana use and psychiatric disorders? | National Institute on Drug Abuse

Several studies have linked marijuana use to increased risk for psychiatric disorders, including psychosis (schizophrenia), depression, anxiety, and substance use disorders, but whether and to what extent it actually causes these conditions is not always easy to determine.

www.drugabuse.gov

This one is pretty short but is a easier read...From Harvard but again a lot of this is not in depth just compiling data. Still has value but the German study is better.

Teens who smoke pot at risk for later schizophrenia, psychosis - Harvard Health

Teenagers and young adults who use marijuana may be messing with their heads in ways they don’t intend. Ongoing research shows a possible link between early use of marijuana and later develop...

www.health.harvard.edu

Also if Big Corps and the Gov. get involved I said they would use draconian methods to weed out the illegal trade from Down South etc. I have no idea how they will approach the home grower who uses it for personal relief.

 

[MGHS]

While I have never tried pot, it smells like skunk to me...
I know when I was in school Pot was easier to get than booze...Way more kids were stoned in the 80's than drunk...

Unregulated stuff is always easier to get....

 

[kaskaskiakid]

Yeah there is a lot of mentally ill folks with Major Depression and other issues from the 60's and 70's.. ...and it's more than one study. The Germans did a very in depth study into the subject in early 2000's we still use the literature because it's probably the most thorough study done to date.....Can't find a link but this one entails some of it. One of the main issues is that America doesn't really do MJ research above the surface level.

Just like booze, there is a big difference between chronic pot users and the weekend toker. I don't see any harm in the occasional marijuana user, which I believe to be the majority of adult users. Too much of anything is not good.

 

[MGHS]

I said that in a previous post that using weekly or bi-weekly in social settings is just like booze and it's a push....now the narrative is that it has massive health benefits and no side effects which is a blatant lie. .... I also said I support it being legal and such. But that a whole other area of Gov./Big tech. over reach will come with that as well.

 

[kaskaskiakid]

And like I said, allow the recreational user to grow their own and there is no need for Gov or Big Tech to be involved. IT would eliminate a lot of problems.

 

[3Rfan]

And like I said, allow the recreational user to grow their own and there is no need for Gov or Big Tech to be involved. IT would eliminate a lot of problems.

Until they get behind the wheel of a car.

 

[MGHS]

And like I said, allow the recreational user to grow their own and there is no need for Gov or Big Tech to be involved. IT would eliminate a lot of problems.

I don't disagree with that on theory but that is never going to happen because anything that can be monetized can be, will be and should be as a capitalistic principle. And with that comes regulation and control.

 

[MGHS]

Until they get behind the wheel of a car.

Or develop Major Depression, Schizoaffective disorder, lung cancer etc. Smoking MJ in a over indulgent way has a whole host of negative effects on society....as much as doing other drugs as well.

 

[kaskaskiakid]

Or develop Major Depression, Schizoaffective disorder, lung cancer etc. Smoking MJ in a over indulgent way has a whole host of negative effects on society....as much as doing other drugs as well.

You've watched "Reefer Madness" too many times. I literally know of probably a hundred life long recreational pot users who haven't had any mental or physical problems from using pot. You can cite all the studies you want, reality tells me different. I have never heard of one person developing schizophrenia or depression from smoking pot.

And just like homemade wine and beer, we should and will be able to grow small amounts for personal use when marijuana is made legal.

And just like alcohol, we do need to try to keep it away from teenagers, but just like alcohol it is impossible to do. MJ can be psychologically addictive to chronic users, but when they are cut off from availability, the craving disappears in a matter of days or a few weeks.

Too much alcohol or pot is not good, but both are relatively harmless for recreational, moderate weekend users.

 

[MGHS]

Ok I'm going to come across as rather Blunt and straight forward in regards to your response.

Yes I have watched Reefer Madness....its a hoot and for the most part total BS outside of a well constructed Scare film that can have the desired effects in that manner or it did to a degree.

But with that said you have Zero idea of what you are talking about with the regards to the damage done to all ages by REEFER. Your statistical data is small in scale and 100% anecdotal. The studies I referred to are not. There is Real world damage and personal damage done by smoking Pot.

But since you love anecdotal analysis I give give you flip side of the coin.

Well I literally did a shift on the adult psch. unit last we had 3 patients who had schizophrenic, two of which had their first break after Reefer smoking for months in their late teens to early twenties, no other drug use was documented, they are now in their late 40's and early 50's and they and their families have had a life time of consequences from pot.. The other patient never had done any illegal drugs and smoked Reefer once at age 29 at a business function and had a break within two weeks. She is now just beginning a life time of meds and therapy...... Now clearly I won't rule out a possible Genetic variable in any of these situations. And/OR that pot was the tipping point to a eventual break that also has to be factored into the equation.

But without a doubt Reefer is not a benign herb that has Zero consequences....to act like it is, is a 100% LIE and really is a Ignorant statement without any backing.

In fact constant smoking of Reefer(love that term thanks) is often a self medicating mask for underlying Depression. I doubt that you are the least bit qualified to make that diagnosis. And unless you are a Doctor I doubt you are qualified to make statements about anyone Physical well being either. So your analysis of your acquaintances is meaningless. Even less so on a Statistical scale.

How many times are the general population shocked when someone commits suicide or does something heinous and people say he/she was such a nice guy and seemed normal...masking is a normal human social behavior. Or how may times are people diagnosed with Cancer etc. but look healthy on the outside. Long Term continued effects add up. Both are not always obvious.


I always use this Example when it comes to Substance abuse....would you take your smart phone or computer and daily or weekly take Soda Pop and drop a few drops inside of it? I mean you could and it would probably work OK for a long time but eventually the damage will be done and irreversible ......Doing Drugs is Damaging your Hard Drive and 100% worse than the analogy I gave. To spew out your nonsense about the people you know being unaffected is laughable. But I doubt I can change your mind.

But with that Said again I 100% support a persons right to do so....I'm just not going to lie about the consequences to myself or others.

In fact this weekend I drank 6 home brewed Guinness, Smoked 3 cigars, and Cooked and ate Ribs, Made homemade Devonshire Cream and ate in on homemade scones....not exactly the Most healthy diet in the world. But I'm not going to BS myself or others and say it has no effects on my long term health.

I just don't get people buying into a OVERT lie and then continuing to lie about it to everyone and everybody.

 

[kaskaskiakid]

And you have zero evidence that pot caused schizo in your 3 patients. More likely that they had schizo irregardless of using pot. Millions use MJ without developing mental illnesses. No doubt it is bad on the lungs to be a chronic smoker. Your 6 pack and 3 cigars likely harmed your body more that a guy that took a couple puffs on a doobie last weekend.

 

[MGHS]

And you have zero evidence that pot caused schizo in your 3 patients. More likely that they had schizo irregardless of using pot. Millions use MJ without developing mental illnesses. No doubt it is bad on the lungs to be a chronic smoker. Your 6 pack and 3 cigars likely harmed your body more that a guy that took a couple puffs on a doobie last weekend.

Yes I do have evidence...I pointed out the studies these studies are fact and standardized based...Jeez some people just won't believe hard core data and science because they want to believe that Reefer is a harmless and benign drug with no side effects. Also Schizophrenia is not a communicable disease that is catching.... The leading theory is that some factors disrupt the normal function of the brain prior to it being fully developed. And without a doubt CHEMICAL substances disrupt the Normal function of the Brain and it's development.

And Because Millions use Pot doesn't mean it doesn't have effects. Around 3 million people in America have Schizophrenia.....usually the symptoms develop when the brain isn't fully developed before people turn 25years of age.

The prime breaks are between 16-25years of age. It isn't that hard to do even surface statistical models that track people who have Schizo breaks and with Pot use. And guess what people who have breaks who don't smoke Reefer are significantly lower than those who do, even when factoring out other Drug use or Pot as the only drug of use the correlation is higher in Reefer users. Even when factoring in Heredity.

Of course taking your line of reason... Millions Smoke Cigs and never get cancer either so all that Data must be pure BS that say your chances are increased just bad evidence.......As well as Millions of people drive Drunk and never have a accident so clearly their is Zero Correlation to Drinking driving and having accident. Nope all that stuff is clearly bunk..

I mean Just believe what you want it's a free country....but the Fact is Reefer can and does cause series mental side effects.

I mean even if Just half of the 3 million are drug onset schizophrenic breaks ....well 1.5 million is a pretty high number. Still not a significant amount for Me or most to want to curtail ones individual right to imbibe but let's not pretend it's not having a effect on society.

That is just laughable.

 

[kaskaskiakid]

You're making baseless assumptions. How do you know that those people wouldn't develop schizophrenia without using pot? You don't. I could make a study that McDonald's french fries could lead to onset schizophrenia breaks in people who are predestined to have schizophrenia.

 

[MGHS]

You can't as I stated 100% factor out genetic factors, but you cannot factor out Pot use either and the increased correlation of schizophrenic breaks in those who have no family history of schizophrenic episodes . I mean it's not complicated to take a nice 1,000 to 15,000(which is what they Used) diverse sample size and then compile data of those who have a schizophrenia in their family...use pot or don't use and then adjust for that variable. Same as taking those who don't have a history of any mental disorders in their family ...factor in their first time use of Pot the frequency of use and then the duration to their first Break. Then follow other family members to determine if they have breaks within the 16-25 time frame, if they do not

So nope these studies that have Passed Medical review and are considered hard science are not baseless assumptions.

IF I use your logic how do I know people who don't smoke cigs wouldn't get cancer at a higher rate anyhow .....or that people who drive Drunk wouldn't just have accident at a higher rate.....Or that People who eat French Fries and Fast food everyday would just get OBESE on a Heart Healthy diet as well. I mean those clearly are baseless assumptions as well....Drinking and Driving doesn't effect motor skills behind the wheel, Tobacco doesn't cause cancer, and Over eating a unhealthy diet doesn't increase obesity either in Your World. I mean does Rain not get you wet either?

And I seriously doubt you could pull together a Medically peer reviewed External study on anything.

I get it your pro left handed cigs and Reefer....I support that right...as I support my right to indulge in Tobacco and Liquor.

But Clearly the Difference is I 100% admit the Risks and the dangers. You want to ignore hard science and live in the Land of No consequences for Chemical consumption. That is not reality.

I doubt any data,proof or science will change your mind, because on a emotional level it's a bit scary to think that Smoking some Reefer might in some instances tip the scale or even be the cause of something as catastrophic as a psychotic break. People tend to want to believe that VICES are 100% risk free.

I will leave you with this on the subject....while smoking Pot before the brain is fully developed does dramatically increase the chances of some form of mental issues Schizophrenic breaks are not at the top of the list or rampant. As I said the Risk of Reefer smoking is on Par with Liquor consumption so I wouldn't worry that much.....But there are Risks and they are Real. That was my point.

 

[kaskaskiakid]

And I will maintain that the mentally stable adult recreational pot user's risk of developing schizophrenia is practically zero.

 

[r14veer]

You can't as I stated 100% factor out genetic factors, but you cannot factor out Pot use either and the increased correlation of schizophrenic breaks in those who have no family history of schizophrenic episodes . I mean it's not complicated to take a nice 1,000 to 15,000(which is what they Used) diverse sample size and then compile data of those who have a schizophrenia in their family...use pot or don't use and then adjust for that variable. Same as taking those who don't have a history of any mental disorders in their family ...factor in their first time use of Pot the frequency of use and then the duration to their first Break. Then follow other family members to determine if they have breaks within the 16-25 time frame, if they do not

So nope these studies that have Passed Medical review and are considered hard science are not baseless assumptions.

IF I use your logic how do I know people who don't smoke cigs wouldn't get cancer at a higher rate anyhow .....or that people who drive Drunk wouldn't just have accident at a higher rate.....Or that People who eat French Fries and Fast food everyday would just get OBESE on a Heart Healthy diet as well. I mean those clearly are baseless assumptions as well....Drinking and Driving doesn't effect motor skills behind the wheel, Tobacco doesn't cause cancer, and Over eating a unhealthy diet doesn't increase obesity either in Your World. I mean does Rain not get you wet either?

And I seriously doubt you could pull together a Medically peer reviewed External study on anything.

I get it your pro left handed cigs and Reefer....I support that right...as I support my right to indulge in Tobacco and Liquor.

But Clearly the Difference is I 100% admit the Risks and the dangers. You want to ignore hard science and live in the Land of No consequences for Chemical consumption. That is not reality.

I doubt any data,proof or science will change your mind, because on a emotional level it's a bit scary to think that Smoking some Reefer might in some instances tip the scale or even be the cause of something as catastrophic as a psychotic break. People tend to want to believe that VICES are 100% risk free.

I will leave you with this on the subject....while smoking Pot before the brain is fully developed does dramatically increase the chances of some form of mental issues Schizophrenic breaks are not at the top of the list or rampant. As I said the Risk of Reefer smoking is on Par with Liquor consumption so I wouldn't worry that much.....But there are Risks and they are Real. That was my point.

This study found that cannabis use was associated with significantly increased risk for developing alcohol, cannabis or other drug use disorders, but not for developing mood or anxiety disorders:

Key Points​

• Question: Does cannabis use increase the risk of psychiatric disorders?
• Findings: In this survey of a nationally representative sample of US adults, cannabis use was associated with significantly increased risk for developing alcohol, cannabis, and other drug use disorders as defined by the DSM-IV at 3 years of follow-up. However, cannabis use was not associated with increased risk for developing mood or anxiety disorders.
• Meaning: Cannabis use is associated with an increased risk of developing drug and alcohol use disorders.

This section from the study may show why previous studies have nominally shown a correlation between cannabis use and psychiatric disorders: In unadjusted analyses in the full population, cannabis use was associated with increased prevalence and incidence of a broad range of psychiatric disorders. However, after adjusting for several covariates that predicted cannabis use, multiple regression analysis and propensity score matching converged in indicating that cannabis use was associated only with increased prevalence and incidence of alcohol and drug use disorders, including nicotine dependence."

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2491944

 

[r14veer]

You can't as I stated 100% factor out genetic factors, but you cannot factor out Pot use either and the increased correlation of schizophrenic breaks in those who have no family history of schizophrenic episodes . I mean it's not complicated to take a nice 1,000 to 15,000(which is what they Used) diverse sample size and then compile data of those who have a schizophrenia in their family...use pot or don't use and then adjust for that variable. Same as taking those who don't have a history of any mental disorders in their family ...factor in their first time use of Pot the frequency of use and then the duration to their first Break. Then follow other family members to determine if they have breaks within the 16-25 time frame, if they do not

So nope these studies that have Passed Medical review and are considered hard science are not baseless assumptions.

IF I use your logic how do I know people who don't smoke cigs wouldn't get cancer at a higher rate anyhow .....or that people who drive Drunk wouldn't just have accident at a higher rate.....Or that People who eat French Fries and Fast food everyday would just get OBESE on a Heart Healthy diet as well. I mean those clearly are baseless assumptions as well....Drinking and Driving doesn't effect motor skills behind the wheel, Tobacco doesn't cause cancer, and Over eating a unhealthy diet doesn't increase obesity either in Your World. I mean does Rain not get you wet either?

And I seriously doubt you could pull together a Medically peer reviewed External study on anything.

I get it your pro left handed cigs and Reefer....I support that right...as I support my right to indulge in Tobacco and Liquor.

But Clearly the Difference is I 100% admit the Risks and the dangers. You want to ignore hard science and live in the Land of No consequences for Chemical consumption. That is not reality.

I doubt any data,proof or science will change your mind, because on a emotional level it's a bit scary to think that Smoking some Reefer might in some instances tip the scale or even be the cause of something as catastrophic as a psychotic break. People tend to want to believe that VICES are 100% risk free.

I will leave you with this on the subject....while smoking Pot before the brain is fully developed does dramatically increase the chances of some form of mental issues Schizophrenic breaks are not at the top of the list or rampant. As I said the Risk of Reefer smoking is on Par with Liquor consumption so I wouldn't worry that much.....But there are Risks and they are Real. That was my point.

I don't think anyone is saying that there aren't any risks associated with smoking pot. Of course, one only needs point to the death rate of alcohol-related incidents compared to the death rate of marijuana-related incidents to make a conclusion as to which one is less risky, at least in terms of death, which I would rate as, perhaps, the worst outcome. Also, one substance is relatively easy to overdose and die directly as a result of its consumption, while the other is nearly impossible to do the same (1500 pounds in 15 minutes is one estimate).

 

[MGHS]

I don't think anyone is saying that there aren't any risks associated with smoking pot. Of course, one only needs point to the death rate of alcohol-related incidents compared to the death rate of marijuana-related incidents to make a conclusion as to which one is less risky, at least in terms of death, which I would rate as, perhaps, the worst outcome. Also, one substance is relatively easy to overdose and die directly as a result of its consumption, while the other is nearly impossible to do the same (1500 pounds in 15 minutes is one estimate).

This study found that cannabis use was associated with significantly increased risk for developing alcohol, cannabis or other drug use disorders, but not for developing mood or anxiety disorders:

Key Points​

• Question: Does cannabis use increase the risk of psychiatric disorders?
• Findings: In this survey of a nationally representative sample of US adults, cannabis use was associated with significantly increased risk for developing alcohol, cannabis, and other drug use disorders as defined by the DSM-IV at 3 years of follow-up. However, cannabis use was not associated with increased risk for developing mood or anxiety disorders.
• Meaning: Cannabis use is associated with an increased risk of developing drug and alcohol use disorders.

This section from the study may show why previous studies have nominally shown a correlation between cannabis use and psychiatric disorders: In unadjusted analyses in the full population, cannabis use was associated with increased prevalence and incidence of a broad range of psychiatric disorders. However, after adjusting for several covariates that predicted cannabis use, multiple regression analysis and propensity score matching converged in indicating that cannabis use was associated only with increased prevalence and incidence of alcohol and drug use disorders, including nicotine dependence."

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2491944

I've read that study and the German study of 15,000 is considered more valid although not as PC or palatable to the masses , it comes to the basic same conclusions but they found a direct correlation to mood and anxiety disorders.

Here is a similar study but it's not as detailed in my opinion as the German study but along the same lines

https://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.d738

Take note of the What is known about MJ use.....Cannabis Use is associated with increased risk of psychotic disorders....Cannabis use precedes the onset of psychotic symptoms in individuals with no history of psychotic experiences.

Also the death rate of Reefer use or in contribution is also harder to determine than Alcohol because of the use of both in cases of death and or the lack of testing sometimes for cannabis at all. And no long term study has really been done on the correlation to Pot and Cancer. It's suspected that long term use like Tobacco use can lead to a increased risk of cancer.

As a society we work hard to Demonize Liquor and tobacco and Elevate Pot to a Heavenly status and that a horrible lie.

And believe me I'd say a good 50-60% of the mental healthcare workers use Left handed cigs.....My current Manager and Previous Manager use openly, but they freely admit the studies I have pointed out are valid and the risks are real. Heck I giggle sometimes when I hear my peers who I know smoke reciting data and info. from the studies to our Patients in a effort to curtail their use of all street drugs and the abuse of Legal drugs.

 

[r14veer]

I've read that study and the German study of 15,000 is considered more valid although not as PC or palatable to the masses , it comes to the basic same conclusions but they found a direct correlation to mood and anxiety disorders.

Here is a similar study but it's not as detailed in my opinion as the German study but along the same lines

https://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.d738

Take note of the What is known about MJ use.....Cannabis Use is associated with increased risk of psychotic disorders....Cannabis use precedes the onset of psychotic symptoms in individuals with no history of psychotic experiences.

Also the death rate of Reefer use or in contribution is also harder to determine than Alcohol because of the use of both in cases of death and or the lack of testing sometimes for cannabis at all. And no long term study has really been done on the correlation to Pot and Cancer. It's suspected that long term use like Tobacco use can lead to a increased risk of cancer.

As a society we work hard to Demonize Liquor and tobacco and Elevate Pot to a Heavenly status and that a horrible lie.

And believe me I'd say a good 50-60% of the mental healthcare workers use Left handed cigs.....My current Manager and Previous Manager use openly, but they freely admit the studies I have pointed out are valid and the risks are real. Heck I giggle sometimes when I hear my peers who I know smoke reciting data and info. from the studies to our Patients in a effort to curtail their use of all street drugs and the abuse of Legal drugs.

Pot definitely does not deserve any higher status than alcohol, et al. But it also doesn't deserve a lower status, when all things are considered. It is an intoxicant that has risks (as intoxicants do), some greater, some lesser.

 

[MGHS]

That was my point .....but the mythos that has grown up around it is that it's harmless and even beneficial to a persons health. It clearly is not.

I could also drone on about Alcohol use as well, the toll it takes on a person body and brain. The health risks are 100% real.

 

[r14veer]

That was my point .....but the mythos that has grown up around it is that it's harmless and even beneficial to a persons health. It clearly is not.

I could also drone on about Alcohol use as well, the toll it takes on a person body and brain. The health risks are 100% real.

The pothead mythos about pot being harmless isn't logical, much like a lot of things with a mythos built up around them. Yet they persist.