Savannah

[r14veer]

The flu kills more kids than Covid. CDC fact. I’m sorry your acquaintance is sick. He is more likely to die in a car accident, drug overdose, a flu virus, suicide, etc.

The flu killed 61,000 in its worst year in the last decade. That year, there were around 45 million cases of influenza. If there were 45 million cases of Covid, that would approximate to 1.36 million deaths. Still not a massive percentage, but certainly a large number and that would be in addition to whatever flu deaths occur.

This is, of course, using approximate data because we are in the first season of Covid and there is no vaccine for it (yet), versus flu where it has been in human populations for several thousand years and there is a vaccine for many strains of it. It may well turn out to be equivalent to the flu once a viable vaccine is available to everyone, but at this point, the data just isn't there to back that up yet.

This is all based on readily available, scientifically accepted data. We can, obviously, speculate about the data, since data is often manipulated, but without non-anecdotal, verifiable proof, speculation remains speculation and nothing more.

 

[Angeleyes74]

The flu killed 61,000 in its worst year in the last decade. That year, there were around 45 million cases of influenza. If there were 45 million cases of Covid, that would approximate to 1.36 million deaths. Still not a massive percentage, but certainly a large number and that would be in addition to whatever flu deaths occur.

This is, of course, using approximate data because we are in the first season of Covid and there is no vaccine for it (yet), versus flu where it has been in human populations for several thousand years and there is a vaccine for many strains of it. It may well turn out to be equivalent to the flu once a viable vaccine is available to everyone, but at this point, the data just isn't there to back that up yet.

This is all based on readily available, scientifically accepted data. We can, obviously, speculate about the data, since data is often manipulated, but without non-anecdotal, verifiable proof, speculation remains speculation and nothing more.

There has been 45 million cases of Covid. The nationwide average positive test rate is 6%. It was much higher in May and June. Even at the current 6% rate if you tested the entire population of 325 million there would be 20 million people walking around positive right now.
This spring that number would have been 40 Million.

 

[r14veer]

There has been 45 million cases of Covid. The nationwide average positive test rate is 6%. It was much higher in May and June. Even at the current 6% rate if you tested the entire population of 325 million there would be 20 million people walking around positive right now.
This spring that number would have been 40 Million.

I understand what you are saying about the positivity rate, but the 45 million number for Covid is unsupported by any reporting agency, since they are only reporting confirmed cases and estimates about actual numbers of cases will have a very wide variance in the middle of a pandemic and can only be estimated with some fidelity afterwards, much like flu numbers each year (which are nearly all estimated numbers with wide ranges since it isn't a notifiable disease).

Also, if we are talking worldwide, which I was not, but even if we were, the current confirmed number is 25 million with 850,000 deaths. But, since I was talking about the United States, the confirmed number of cases is 6.09 Million with 185,000 deaths. Neither of those numbers are anywhere near 45 or 40 million.

However, I don't deny that there have probably been way more cases than have been reported, especially asymptomatic and mild symptom cases. But if we are going to get into conjecture, we can also reasonably assume that there are many more actual deaths than reported. One thing I think we can bank on is that, when we reach the end or a large lull or whatever is going to occur when we get a working, viable vaccine, the official numbers will be end up different with new knowledge that we gain.

I'm pointing out the objective numbers here, but make no mistake about it, I am most certainly with everyone on being pissed about not getting to have games and the often seemingly illogical decisions that are made above our pay grade.

 

[Angeleyes74]

I understand what you are saying about the positivity rate, but the 45 million number for Covid is unsupported by any reporting agency, since they are only reporting confirmed cases and estimates about actual numbers of cases will have a very wide variance in the middle of a pandemic and can only be estimated with some fidelity afterwards, much like flu numbers each year (which are nearly all estimated numbers with wide ranges since it isn't a notifiable disease).

Also, if we are talking worldwide, which I was not, but even if we were, the current confirmed number is 25 million with 850,000 deaths. But, since I was talking about the United States, the confirmed number of cases is 6.09 Million with 185,000 deaths. Neither of those numbers are anywhere near 45 or 40 million.

However, I don't deny that there have probably been way more cases than have been reported, especially asymptomatic and mild symptom cases. But if we are going to get into conjecture, we can also reasonably assume that there are many more actual deaths than reported. One thing I think we can bank on is that, when we reach the end or a large lull or whatever is going to occur when we get a working, viable vaccine, the official numbers will be end up different with new knowledge that we gain.

I'm pointing out the objective numbers here, but make no mistake about it, I am most certainly with everyone on being pissed about not getting to have games and the often seemingly illogical decisions that are made above our pay grade.

I was working yesterday with an engineer who just returned back from work after testing negative twice and being allowed back in our facility. Guy who sits across from him is also out with it. I would bet a big chunk of money that 75% of us who work in this building has it, or has had it.

The national average rate for positive tests is 5.8% according to CDC. So if that average holds true and we tested everyone today there would be 19 million positive results TODAY,,,,,then add in all of the people who have had it the first 6 months of the year and so have a feeling it’s a gigantic number

With 185,000 deaths (if anything high) the actual death rate is probably well below 1/2%

 

[r14veer]

I was working yesterday with an engineer who just returned back from work after testing negative twice and being allowed back in our facility. Guy who sits across from him is also out with it. I would bet a big chunk of money that 75% of us who work in this building has it, or has had it.

The national average rate for positive tests is 5.8% according to CDC. So if that average holds true and we tested everyone today there would be 19 million positive results TODAY,,,,,then add in all of the people who have had it the first 6 months of the year and so have a feeling it’s a gigantic number

With 185,000 deaths (if anything high) the actual death rate is probably well below 1/2%

You can't assume that the actual case number is bigger without also assuming that the actual death number is bigger. Manipulation of your estimated "actual" number of cases, but no change in the "actual" number of deaths? That's called having your cake and eating it too. It is sophistry.

 

[Angeleyes74]

You can't assume that the actual case number is bigger without also assuming that the actual death number is bigger. Manipulation of your estimated "actual" number of cases, but no change in the "actual" number of deaths? That's called having your cake and eating it too. It is sophistry.

No the actual number of deaths comes directly from death certificates and includes deaths “with” Covid not just deaths “from” Covid

There have been people killed in car wrecks and from gunshots who were recorded as Covid deaths

 

[Treadmill]

According to the CDC, the actual number of deaths from COVID is about 30% higher than reported. That's due to people who died at home with no test/diagnosis, people who died of "pneumonia" without being tested, etc.

So the true number of COVID deaths is actually about 245,000.

 

[r14veer]

No the actual number of deaths comes directly from death certificates and includes deaths “with” Covid not just deaths “from” Covid

There have been people killed in car wrecks and from gunshots who were recorded as Covid deaths

Maybe an illustration would be useful here because I think a lot of people’s perspective on “cause of death” is skewed because of their presuppositions:

A certain man has type one diabetes. He’s had it all his life and insulin manages it well for him, so he leads a pretty normal life. One day while hiking in Montana, this man is attacked by a bear. The bear attack doesn’t do enough damage to kill him, but it puts him in the hospitalIn the hospital, his blood sugar goes out of control because of the trauma of the bear attack, and it causes multiple organ failure and ultimately death.

What is the cause of death?

Certain people would say, “well, he died because of his diabetes, obviously,” and they aren’t exactly wrong. But without the external factor of the bear, this man would have had a significantly longer life.

The bear killed this man.

 

[Missouri Kid]

Maybe an illustration would be useful here because I think a lot of people’s perspective on “cause of death” is skewed because of their presuppositions:

A certain man has type one diabetes. He’s had it all his life and insulin manages it well for him, so he leads a pretty normal life. One day while hiking in Montana, this man is attacked by a bear. The bear attack doesn’t do enough damage to kill him, but it puts him in the hospitalIn the hospital, his blood sugar goes out of control because of the trauma of the bear attack, and it causes multiple organ failure and ultimately death.

What is the cause of death?

Certain people would say, “well, he died because of his diabetes, obviously,” and they aren’t exactly wrong. But without the external factor of the bear, this man would have had a significantly longer life.

The bear killed this man.

Did he have Covid also?

 

[HoopsTournament]

I was working yesterday with an engineer who just returned back from work after testing negative twice and being allowed back in our facility. Guy who sits across from him is also out with it. I would bet a big chunk of money that 75% of us who work in this building has it, or has had it.

The national average rate for positive tests is 5.8% according to CDC. So if that average holds true and we tested everyone today there would be 19 million positive results TODAY,,,,,then add in all of the people who have had it the first 6 months of the year and so have a feeling it’s a gigantic number

With 185,000 deaths (if anything high) the actual death rate is probably well below 1/2%

You can’t extrapolate. People are only tested if there is a reason for them to be tested. If everyone was tested today, the percentage of positive tests would not be 6% because most people who haven’t been tested are because they don’t have symptoms and don’t have coronavirus.

 

[Cheetah King]

Maybe an illustration would be useful here because I think a lot of people’s perspective on “cause of death” is skewed because of their presuppositions:

A certain man has type one diabetes. He’s had it all his life and insulin manages it well for him, so he leads a pretty normal life. One day while hiking in Montana, this man is attacked by a bear. The bear attack doesn’t do enough damage to kill him, but it puts him in the hospitalIn the hospital, his blood sugar goes out of control because of the trauma of the bear attack, and it causes multiple organ failure and ultimately death.

What is the cause of death?

Certain people would say, “well, he died because of his diabetes, obviously,” and they aren’t exactly wrong. But without the external factor of the bear, this man would have had a significantly longer life.

The bear killed this man.

Absolutely no one wouldn’t say the bear killed him.
How about if the man had heart failure and died because he saw the bear and insurance pays better if someone dies from bear scare. Better example.

 

[Liberator Dad]

The flu kills more kids than Covid. CDC fact. I’m sorry your acquaintance is sick. He is more likely to die in a car accident, drug overdose, a flu virus, suicide, etc.

Could you post that link?

 

[r14veer]

Did he have Covid also?

Absolutely no one wouldn’t say the bear killed him.
How about if the man had heart failure and died because he saw the bear and insurance pays better if someone dies from bear scare. Better example.

Did the bear scare contribute to his death or did it not?

 

[r14veer]

Did he have Covid also?

Clever.

 

[Cheetah King]

I don’t know of anyone who died from fear of covid. But millions have lived because of that fear. So.....

I’m more fearful of bears than Covid though a Covid Bear scares the hell out of me..

 

[panther72]

Especially when the bear is in Savannah.

 

[Treadmill]

Lets say a 68-year old guy is overweight, diabetic and hypertensive (all risks for a poor outcome with COVID). He obviously isn't in perfect health, but he isn't at death's door either and could be expected to live at least another decade or more. He travels with the wife, goes out to dinner a couple of times per week, and volunteers with the men's club at church. In short, he's doing fine. But he gets COVID, develops pneumonia and ARDS, and ultimately dies in the ICU over a period of two weeks.

That is accurately recorded as a COVID death because he wouldn't have been expected to die at this time had he not been infected. The infection caused his acute problems that immediately led to his death. The fact that he also had comorbid conditions that placed him at higher risk of complications doesn't change the fact that it was the infection that actually caused his death. That's the same way that flu deaths are recorded, as well as those for virtually every other infectious disease.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

So someone with high BP who might have lived 10 more years dies with covid an you don’t think it should count? Good grief.

Who? Where? Show us a death certificate.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Did he have Covid also?

He tested negative for a false positive and returned to his new normal the next day.

 

[panther72]

Does he live in Savannah?

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Lets say a 68-year old guy is overweight, diabetic and hypertensive (all risks for a poor outcome with COVID). He obviously isn't in perfect health, but he isn't at death's door either and could be expected to live at least another decade or more. He travels with the wife, goes out to dinner a couple of times per week, and volunteers with the men's club at church. In short, he's doing fine. But he gets COVID, develops pneumonia and ARDS, and ultimately dies in the ICU over a period of two weeks.

That is accurately recorded as a COVID death because he wouldn't have been expected to die at this time had he not been infected. The infection caused his acute problems that immediately led to his death. The fact that he also had comorbid conditions that placed him at higher risk of complications doesn't change the fact that it was the infection that actually caused his death. That's the same way that flu deaths are recorded, as well as those for virtually every other infectious disease.

Look...This forum is no place for your well thought out posts. You need to pick a side and call others morons or belittle them if they don't prescribe to your beliefs.

 

[KCHI]

*sits back, reading* Well I didn't expect my original post to take this turn, but this IS mosports so I should not be surprised. 🤪

 

[r14veer]

*sits back, reading* Well I didn't expect my original post to take this turn, but this IS mosports so I should not be surprised. 🤪

Well done, sir.

 

[Treadmill]

Friend of the family lost her father two weeks ago. Cause of death listed on the death certificate: covid-19

He was 98.

What age is considered too old to list an infectious disease as the cause of death?

 

[revno]

Tom Seaver died and the death was reported due to dementia, he also tested positive for Covid but it wasn't listed as the cause??

 

[Cheetah King]

Tom Seaver died and the death was reported due to dementia, he also tested positive for Covid but it wasn't listed as the cause??

The NBC headline literally says Hall of Fame pitcher Tom Seaver dies of COVID-19, dementia at 75.

 

[panther72]

That is because he loved Savannah.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Friend of the family lost her father two weeks ago. Cause of death listed on the death certificate: covid-19

He was 98.

My grandma died a few years back. She was 92. Went back to school and someone asked me why she died. My answer...Hell, she was 92. Seems reason enough to me.

Full disclosure. I think this thing is NASTY. It's a real virus that does some horrible things to people. But it's nothing like has been portrayed in the mainstream media, and for the life of me I just don't get the reasoning. It could do this. And it might do that. But here's what we currently know, and it sure isn't enough to totally take a crap on the American society and way of life.

 

[BoosterBosko]

What if you have High Blood pressure from running a booster club and divorce and are very OVERWEIGHT

Okay there bozo!! I just now saw this and I'll tell you what, you clearly dont KNOW ME AT ALL!!! I DONT have high blood pressure, I am NOT divorced, and I am only SLIGHTLY overweight!!! The only thing that gives me high blood pressure is READING YOUR POSTS!!!

 

[Mofan79]

Okay there bozo!! I just now saw this and I'll tell you what, you clearly dont KNOW ME AT ALL!!! I DONT have high blood pressure, I am NOT divorced, and I am only SLIGHTLY overweight!!! The only thing that gives me high blood pressure is READING YOUR POSTS!!!
[/QUOTE Bosko no offense was meant I just worry about with all the stress in your life and you not being careful at the pool hall... the Doc Guys are a Mosport treasure and I would hate to see COVID get you

 

[BoosterBosko]

Hey! Maybe you're not such a bozo because you recognize what we Doc Guys are!! But to set the record straight with you, I am NOT divorced, I do NOT have high blood pressure, and I am only SLIGHTLY overweight!

 

[Cheetah King]

NBC signs the death certificate?

No but they report it as a covid death and a bunch of people assume that it is true. ...ya know because NBC never misleads..

 

[panther72]

Would he have lived longer without covid?

Yes because in Savannah you can shoot sunshine up your butt to cure COVID.

 

[cr7707]

I don’t know of anyone who died from fear of covid. But millions have lived because of that fear. So.....

how many times a week do you get so scared about something that you literally crap your pants?

 

[Arcola]

Would he have lived longer without covid?

Being someone who has dealt with a close relative with dementia and another with Alzheimer’s I can tell you that the Covid makes no difference compared to what family members go thru with a relative losing their mind.

 

[revno]

Being someone who has dealt with a close relative with dementia and another with Alzheimer’s I can tell you that the Covid makes no difference compared to what family members go thru with a relative losing their mind.

It does though. Your relatives may not have realized that you were physically there, but you realized it. With Covid you would have not been able to have direct contact. That contact had to be important in the grieving process, now you wave through a window..

 

[r14veer]

That’s a fair question.
Its also a fair question to ask why his advanced Alzheimer’s, kidney failure, or COPD wasn’t listed as well.

The answer is they would also be listed on the death certificate if they were deemed to be contributing factors in the actual death. The death certificate is a bit more complex than the one the coroner of Munchkin City uses for the death of the Wicked Witch of the East, much to the chagrin of many: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/DEATH11-03final-acc.pdf .

Further, for the “motorcycle death was listed as Covid” crowd, like all things in scientific pursuits, thankfully (or we’d still be under the impression that Earth is the center of the universe): they are subject to change upon further examination: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/florida-motorcyclist-covid-death/ .

Now, I know this isn’t going to change people’s minds about all this, but I have to believe that most people still use logic and reason as a basis for decision-making, despite copious evidence to the contrary. Unfortunately, I think most confuse specious logic for actual logic on a pretty much moment to moment basis.

 

[164chevy]

Being someone who has dealt with a close relative with dementia and another with Alzheimer’s I can tell you that the Covid makes no difference compared to what family members go thru with a relative losing their mind.

Absolutely.

 

[164chevy]

Corona19 isn’t going anywhere. We have to deal with it, and keep our kids involved in sports,school,band, and going to class. The long term effects of this virus will be manageable. Heck I had the good old bad flu couple years ago. Ran a fever for a week and didn’t leave the house. The human body is very resilient