The Repubs getting pushes are all trying to make Trump happy.
DeSantis, Haley, Cruz...
Resident Immunology Experts
- Thread starter r14veer
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DeSantis, Haley, Cruz...
It won't matter who is President if we don't all elect some moderates in the use and senate. Prez can only do what they allow and neither side wants to give an inch to the other.
And yet the house and Senate alway poll horrible. I would love to see the house and senate piece meal some good legislation, instead of these huge bills that try to force things thru. Pass those things that both parties can agree on.
I think it's a matter of practicality. It's easier to debate a big bill in committee than it is to debate a bunch of small ones in committee.
I'd assume Abbot, Rubio, Cruz, Desantis will all probably run for the R's. For the D's will they challenge Biden if he wants a 2nd term? It doesn't seem like anyone wants Harris to replace Biden. Clinton, Beto, Yang will probably run I'm guessing. Bernie is too old, AOC is too young.
2 wildcards would be Gabbard or Manchin trying to run as either Independents or switching parties to "be moderate R's" and give that a shot.
2 wildcards would be Gabbard or Manchin trying to run as either Independents or switching parties to "be moderate R's" and give that a shot.
good call on Klobuchar completely forgot about her. I'm sure there will be surprise/mostly unknowns throw in as well on both sides.
This is where we are missing JFK Jr. I think he'd have been president instead of Biden (and trump)
I agree not definitive but pretty conclusive....But even with that said so what? People should be able to choose to vax or choose not to vax. The issue is the Govt trying to force mandates, and taking away the right's and freedoms of the individual.
I never understood the Leftist cult of wanting to punish, shun and financially hurt those who choose not to vax. Why the left ran around in pure Fear of the unvaxed?
I vaxed and had no fear of the unvaxed, it was their choice and right not to be forced to take into their body something they didn't want. I was protected...I was more of a danger to them than they to I. If they assumed the Risk so be it, I 100% supported their rights. Strange and sick others don't.
That's all that bill was/is Pork,Crap and add on's. All those Bills no matter what side crafts them become basically crony payouts to shift money legally to loyalists.
I think every American is for a Infrastructure Bill than fixes the issues and where at least 90% of the tax payer dollars actually get's to the problem. But I won't be hoodwinked into supporting a Grit Shift Bill....when you have 15 billion in subsidies for Electric Cars built in that is all you need to know...or the insane environmental review and standards that must be met, or even the Buy America provisions and the Must Hire of Union's to perform the labor mandates. All bad business practices and waste causing insanity that leads to the Roads, Bridges etc. never getting fixed. Billions and even Trillions wasted.
Sadly it will be Trump vs Biden......I didn't think Trump would run, but I was wrong he is the only driving Force now on the conservative side. People in America have a short memory, if the economic woes continue to get worse and the bottom drops out then Biden and Trump is a lock for 2024.
Pointing out flaws or factual inaccuracies in an argument is not a cult. I imagine you'd agree with me that a cult is illogical nearly by definition. So let's do this little thought experiment: One side sees the logic and follows it because they think it will be to the benefit of all (whether or not their methods are effective or useful is a different argument). One side sees the logic and denies it based on emotion or inaccurate information. Which one is the cult?
I see both sides as cultish....If the one side would say well you should get the vax but you have the right to not get the Vax based on Principle and basic human rights..that is not cultish. But if you engage in a active emotional based fear campaign to smear, demean and dehumanize those who don't follow your view point.....and actually buy into the fear. That is cultish as well.
If I was to play devils advocate on the research while the conclusion was that the Vax is more effective than natural immunity....it didn't come to the conclusion that Natural immunity didn't occur. And if you factor in the possible and not studied Possible side effects of a vax then, one might not want to risk taking the vax.
Yeah, the demeaning the opponent thing is not typically useful and it has been actively harmful because so many who didn't really have medical qualms about the vaccine that likely would have gotten vaccinated now won't do it simply because the liberals have told them they should. I know plenty of people in that camp. And plenty who pretend they didn't get vaccinated both to keep "owning the libs" in their lives and to not get crap from the conservatives in their lives. Only in the Bizarro World we now inhabit could a disease and its treatment become politicized from all sides.
So, let me ask, should we now examine all vax and natural immunity? Should we no longer require immunization for kids before school and let them decide if natural immunity is better?
It was not too long ago that many on the right felt that those on the left that were preaching against immunization for kids were crazy, because it caused autism and other issue… were calling those people crazy liberals!!! Now they support that free choice which it sounds like you do too? So were do we stand do we no longer mandate any Vaccines any drugs because natural immunity works better, and if not the iron long is not that bad...let's just let nature do its "thing".
Should we stop trying to cure cancer let God and nature do its thing… I mean your doctors are against you and don’t know what is best for you and forget about big phram we all know all they want is to make a profit…. And let’s not forget about what Tom Cruise says about ADHD meds and other psychological analysis if you want an expert opinion over a certified doctor! Never thought conservatives would side with Scientology and Cruise on medication….but here we are…
Big difference.....those vax's have decades of research and clinical trials to back up their safety record and effectiveness. These vax's where rushed and ran through with Dubious clinical trials according to even the British Medical Journal. They are considered experimental vax's for a reason....that is the crux of the issue. And mandating vax's for adults and children is another issue in it's self.
I'm not sure how to respond to the Cancer statement or how that even correlates to taking a experimental vax without long term trials or data to support it's safety? How does stopping Cancer research for a cure even get in the discussion with taking a Rushed and unsoundly tested vax?
And you really went off the rails with the Tom Cruise ADHD thing unless your point was to try and paint those who are a bit wary or skeptical of taking a vax without long term clinical trials as being unbalanced or outside the Norm of good judgement.
Here is the thing, China already had the genetic data and sequencing on the coronavirus. That is what takes years of research…why they had that… well that is for another debate. So most of the leg work was done and well vaccine and science has evolved a lot since the early 1950 of working with live viruses. Once they had the genetic data and sequencing then all they needed to do was work on the vaccine. Yes the vax is still considered experimental, and it should be, however millions have now been inoculated with very very few side effects. But while it is considered experimental it has been proven safe. I know many with tin foil on their heads will tell you that the government is hiding many deaths from the vaccine inside the deaths reported for Covid…yep I just shake my head, what do you say to those people…
The other thing is how do you think those other vaccines got decades of research and clinical trials to back up their safety record…the exact same way this one is. I watched a documentary on Polio vaccine, did you know that it was still considered experimental when the first 1 million kids were injected after a trail on just 20 kids? But parents still signed up for that experimental drug trial, just so their kids to get that injection to save them. And yes, mistakes did happen, especially because one company didn’t get the virus killed and many kids came down with polio from the vaccine they produced, yet parents still signed up their kids after that news came out even while other scientist were trying to scare people because they were taking a live virus that had been killed. Very interesting doc if you get a chance to watch it.
The reason why I brought up cancer is because in this same debate many never vaxers quote the good book and God and natural healing, just perplexes me on their line of thought. Because to watch somebody suffer thru the treatments for cancer and the will to live and the things those patients put in their body to try and fight it just so sad if you have every had a loved one go thru it. Yet on a virus something so simple, that a shoot that has very little side effects and now a years’ worth of data to back up it safety record, say they refuse to put that poison in their body… Just ways my mind thinks about things. I mean if they believe in praying for God to help the doctors heal cancer using today's meds, why do they quote the good Book on reasons for natural healing for Covid...again just perplexes me and the way my mind works.
You think I went off the rails about Tom Cruise….LOL you do know where most anti vaxier things comes from?? People like him....If you ever watch him he will quote doctors and such on why you should not take meds...t
Now all that said I do believe at this point the vaccine is experimental and as such nobody should be forced to take it totally agree. But what happens once the data says it’s safe which I think we are getting to that point. How many will still put on their tin foil hats read about chickens spreading it..yep heard that one. Heck I had a person ask me if I knew about 5G the magnet and the vaccine how a magnet will stick to your arm after you get the shoot and when they turn on 5G they will then control you…and this was from a college educated person….so many conspiracies theorist out there over this. Yeah, I think we should always be asking questions, but when do you stop? And with social media and so many experts on Facebook and twitter....LOL oh my were does it end.
So Trump steamrolling all other GOP candidates in the primaries was just because of the will of the GOP establishment??? I think not
So if you agree nobody should be forced to take it....then why do you seem invested in people believing what you do and taking it? Who cares if Tom Cruise is a nutter and is anti-vax or anti-psychotropic drugs? He does have that right, you can agree to disagree. The issue is the hardcore rhetoric and shaming that came from the maskers and vaxers...
I've had several friends and family die from cancer.....3 of them said the treatment was worse than cancer and was relieved to have stopped doing the cure to enjoy their last days as best they could. So I can see both sides of the issue...but your point is not really connected to the vax at all. One is a disease you develop the other is a choice to take along with those risks. A virus can and does cause the body to develop natural immunity....Cancer is not a virus and nobody develops a immunity from rogue cells mutating.
Also while we know the vax is safe in the short term....the long term trials have not even begun.
Here is the thing I do agree with you I told you that because it is experimental nobody should be forced at this point to take it, and yes I can understand your fear. I just don’t agree there is a need to be scared when most doctors and medical professional endorse it. And when is that fear no longer rational? And when is there enough data to suggest it is safe. What are some of your fears? I know long term affects is what most list, but what? I am the long term tester? And how long is long enough? 2,5 ,12, 22 years? What will it take for you to consider it safe?
I do also understand I am from a very different era and generation than you, I remember the early 70's I was loaded up on a bus with our entire school, taken to some parking lot unloaded with what looked to be 1,000's of kids from schools all over Joplin, I was probable in first grade? we were lined up and herded thru like cattle to get some dang shot not sure what it was for maybe smallpox? No parents were there holding our hands, just a few teachers keeping us in line and together. I just remember the thing they shot us in the arm with what looked like some Star trek weapon they called it a jet injector, and they could do a bunch of us! We were loaded back up on the bus and went back to school like nothing happened So yeah, I was just raised differently not as fearful of all things, so because of that I just don’t understand why so many are so scared to death of all things and think everybody is out to get them!!! And why some will listen to anybody about crazy stuff…But again what do I know, well I know that doesn’t make me a sheep like so many are willing to call those of us who are willing to take the shot.
I will say this, my hope is that Covid continues to mutate to a very weak virus which we are already seeing. I don't believe the Vax will get rid of it, We can't create a cure for the common cold so I hold out no hope we will do the same for Covid. So in the end the Vax may no longer be needed...who knows what the future holds.
I have near zero fear about the vax or booster I've had the Vax and will get the booster soon...I just acknowledge that others do have fears and that those fears are legit although the percentage is low that anything will manifest itself.
We got our vax's in the elementary school small gym in the 70's... and I also got the jet injector shot Star Trek thing as well. Didn't hurt a bit.
I'd say a decade will tell the tale on the side effects if any of the vax.
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