Rating the most difficult places to build a winning football program in the Suburbans.
- Thread starter FistOH
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Not that it has anything to do with football, but when I look at where those places are located, they are older suburbs, and the newer suburbs have taken over. Young couples move to the newer places, have children, and those places build. But you build a championship team at one of those places and you will probably see and influx of football families moving into that district. Like what happens now! The ol Public school recruitment.
They play too many schools that are easier places to win games. It's all relative. You line these guys up versus KC interscholastic league and you'll find out why that league exists.
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anon_utvqikut1knht
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The weirdest I've seen is Ruskin. Since they consolidated the district (closing Hickman Mills) they've really struggled. Hickman Mills used to be one of the more competitive schools in what I call the inner suburbs. Goes to show, also, how explosively this Metro area has grown in my lifetime (or how old I am LOL).
It's complicated. There are hard places to win, and easier places beat hard places. There's a hierarchy in all things worth the struggle. It's just a fact of nature, it's just how life works. People that claim to know the answers and try to fix it typically make it worse. The best thing to do is to appreciate those coaches and teachers that are willing to meet the challenge. I hold them up with highest of regard. They are inspirational in my book.
Oak Park IS NOT like these other schools. They initially got smoked when Staley opened but they repeatedly hire coaches who are chasing paychecks instead of becoming better at football. Now they just sit back and blame Staley, for EVERYTHING!
Ruskin, Tonka,Grandview, and Chrisman would be my top 4.
Ruskin, Tonka,Grandview, and Chrisman would be my top 4.
Did they take the summer off, no practice or weights? If my memory is correct OP was OK until there long time coach retired well after Staley was built. OP upset Raytown this year, but lost to Chrisman. Chrisman beat Staley in 2016. Not following your logic. Are you saying that they don't work hard enough to win or you work for Staley lol.
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In the 80s Ruskin had 2 D1 Linebackers on one team. Steve Vandegrift played at Missouri...and Stacey Henson for KU. They were damn good back then .
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I've watched OP play the last 3 seasons (6 times) and they did not look like a team very interested in playing, much less winning, in football. I have friends who work for both schools and I've heard both sides. OP seems to whine, a great deal, about what they don't have and what Staley seems to "get". If OP wins more than 2 games this year, I'll give them their props. Clemens didn't win at LN with better talent, I don't see him winning at OP any time soon.
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anon_utvqikut1knht
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My point was I really thought Ruskin absorbing Hickman Mills would vault the FB program. The dead opposite has happened.
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anon_utvqikut1knht
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I think he has an improved team but (this is really hard to believe) Oak Park is now squarely in the "old Northland" part of the NKCSD. Just don't have the numbers...........
I just moved into the Old Briarcliff/Claymont area and there are tons of younger families like mine. I'm not sure how many of them plan on staying there but maybe that bodes well for NKCHS? Who knows. But if you look at places that are starting to get some different amenities and infrastructure around KC that section of the Northland west of I-35 and south of Barry Rd. is starting to take off.
My topic is about rating the schools most difficult to win at. Thanks for making my point. lol
Clemens didn't win at Liberty North? Huh? Five of Seven winning seasons. A final four appearance and a conference championship. Two teams ranked in the top 4 in Class 5. He didn't win? Whatchootalkinbout Waggles?
Some sort of creeping apathy covers some of these schools...I see it in other sports as well. Truman I can't understand at all They have upgraded facilities and have talent in the halls, but it seems like student apathy about sports.
And he should have been winning way more. Did he win some games? Yes. Did he win games that matter? No.
Truman plays plenty of schools where winning games in recent history is easier. It's more difficult to win at OP and Ruskin than Truman.
Raytown South is on your list too. Kills me..they have outstanding facilities. And the athletes I saw there three years ago had a TON of potential. I was thinking as I watched them what a staff like Roderique's or Jones would do with this crew if they had buy in? Their soph D end that year was huge (6'4" 300, and could move.
If my memory is correct, Raytown South lost a State Final game on a Hail Mary pass during the Allie era. That marked what has become the beginning of the end in being a regular contender. The teams at RS that appeared to fall off happened about the same time that the teams on this list really began to struggle.
Grandview was first to fall off followed closely by Hickman Mills, Ruskin, Center, Truman and other Independence Schools and to the North Oak Park.
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I think its just hard to win year in and year out, for any school. Schools who have the coaches and players willing to put in the time and effort, and have talent, will always come out ahead and make it look easier than it is. Both winning and losing become contagious, losers are gonna lose. So, I guess I do see your point.
I think right coach is the most critical factor.
Fort Osage had a competitive program under Dennis Vanarsdall in the 80's. He retired from coaching and they floundered until Jerry Boyce was hired in 94-95. They were consistent winners(this was in the day of playing in the same class with Blue Springs/BS South etc).
Boyce Retired in 2000 and they went outside the program for a hire and immediately got historically bad again.
When Ryan Shartz was hired in 2006 they were in the midst of a 30+ game losing streak. In his 2nd season they went 8-2 and by 2009 they were playing in the C5 title game.
When Shartz moved to the AD position after the 2015 season they hired D/C Brock Bult. They had one down season in 2016 when they had a small senior class but seem to be back on track based on the past two seasons.
Talent does play a factor but when I look at some of the athletes that Ray South, Raytown and NKC put on the field I can't help but wonder what the right coach would do in those spots. We've seen it at South with Kelly Donohoe and David Allie and I think Raytown has a good man in place now in Logan Minnick.
Maybe they can't be state title contenders but I see no reason why schools like Truman, Chrisman and Winnetonka can't have more success then they have experienced in recent years.
Fort Osage had a competitive program under Dennis Vanarsdall in the 80's. He retired from coaching and they floundered until Jerry Boyce was hired in 94-95. They were consistent winners(this was in the day of playing in the same class with Blue Springs/BS South etc).
Boyce Retired in 2000 and they went outside the program for a hire and immediately got historically bad again.
When Ryan Shartz was hired in 2006 they were in the midst of a 30+ game losing streak. In his 2nd season they went 8-2 and by 2009 they were playing in the C5 title game.
When Shartz moved to the AD position after the 2015 season they hired D/C Brock Bult. They had one down season in 2016 when they had a small senior class but seem to be back on track based on the past two seasons.
Talent does play a factor but when I look at some of the athletes that Ray South, Raytown and NKC put on the field I can't help but wonder what the right coach would do in those spots. We've seen it at South with Kelly Donohoe and David Allie and I think Raytown has a good man in place now in Logan Minnick.
Maybe they can't be state title contenders but I see no reason why schools like Truman, Chrisman and Winnetonka can't have more success then they have experienced in recent years.
Yes, and established winning teams tend to improve while unsuccessful teams tend to get worse as the season unfolds. Team's with prolonged success that go through a hiccup season, tend to rebound faster than teams that can't get out of their own way.
Excelsior Springs was one of those that couldn't seem to turn it around. But the past couple of years they have been posting winning teams..not playoff winning level teams, but winning nonetheless. After 20 or so years of futility.
Interesting, in that E.S. has a history that includes seven undefeated seasons and two state championships. Perhaps being a more outlier suburb makes it more amenable to a turnaround than the tighter suburbs of the Oak Park type areas?
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anon_utvqikut1knht
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Let's see how Benny Palmer fares at Tonka the next couple of years. I have a feeling they will improve a bunch.
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anon_utvqikut1knht
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Bonuchi was one of the toughest HCs in this area all time and it showed. Those mid 90s Excelsior teams were very well conditioned and physical.
I've seen some short videos and saw them play in person. Line averaged 6'2 300 and could move. Backs all played college ball. Two or three D1 recruits on their '96 team.
Yes, and if a coach truly thinks he can rebuild along with faith, perseverance and hard work and sometimes patience and luck, he can change it. The alternative is to get worse, lose, quit or get fired.
There are athletes all over ES who do not play any sports for some reason. Vic got those kinds of kids to play. Seems like the new guy is starting to turn that corner. ES is an odd place, its like 3 little towns combined to form one.
Lol. My bad! Had a lot of good times playing golf with him and Myers and Sheldon at Freddy when I was a kid. Those guys could get after it back then. Great group of dudes. Was just up at ES a couple weekends ago for youth football. Wish I’d have known the good doc was in ES. Would’ve loved to have looked him up.
