Missouri Schools

[Expect2Win]

I know some of you are retired and may not have seen these.
This is copied from MSTA

Senate Education and Workforce Development Committee holds first hearing​

Two bills were presented in the Senate Education and Workforce Development Committee this week that would create a “Parents’ Bill of Rights Act of 2023.” The bills are similar in subject, but there are differences between the two pieces of legislation.

SB4 (Koenig) and SB89 (B.Brown) expand the information to be made accessible on the Missouri Accountability Portal to include all forms of compensation and benefits paid to, or on behalf of, public employees. The bills require that each local school board and charter school governing board approve and adopt the curriculum at least two months prior to implementation. Each school board and charter school governing board shall adopt policies to ensure that the approved and adopted curricula are properly implemented in the classroom. The parents’ bill of rights language prohibits schools from requiring nondisclosure agreements for a parent's review of curricula and each school must provide a parent, upon request, with an electronic or paper copy of the curriculum documents. The Commissioner of Education is required to establish the Missouri Education Transparency and Accountability Portal to provide citizens with access to every school district's curriculum, textbooks and syllabi. The portal shall include the cost associated with speakers and guests used by a school in their professional development activities.

The bills further outline rules for the discussion of certain concepts in schools. No school or school employee shall compel teachers to teach, or a student or teacher to personally adopt, adhere to, or profess a position or viewpoint a reasonable person would conclude violates certain public policy expressed in the act including but not limited to:

• Individuals of any race, ethnicity, color or national origin being inherently superior or inferior
• Individuals, by virtue of their race, ethnicity, color or national origin, bearing collective guilt and being inherently responsible for actions committed in the past by others.

This bill states that the language of the bill shall not be construed to prohibit constitutionally protected speech, access to research or study materials or the discussion or assignment of materials for educational purposes.

SB4 also directs the Department of Elementary and Secondary Education to develop a patriotic and civics training program to prepare teachers to teach the principles of American civics and patriotism. Subject to appropriation, each teacher that completes the training will receive a one-time bonus of $3,000 to be paid by the department.

 

[Toots_mcgee]

They are going from red state to red state trying to implement control over schools.
No Mo rep came up with this concept.
They just copy it from other states.

 

[Expect2Win]

It is really sad. I never dreamed we would lose our way this much.

 

[Expect2Win]

Who is going to be the reasonable person?

 

[Toots_mcgee]

My local state rep used to be a teacher and then principal at our local HS. I can’t believe anyone involved in public education would think these things are reasonable but apparently there are some that do.

If Nazis would have come into my classroom and told me I couldn’t teach things I thought were important I would have ended my career abruptly.

 

[MGHS]

So let me get this straight teachers think they are the end all to be all of what should be taught and what should not be taught and that their judgement reigns supreme..... They 100% dismiss the Local Citizens/Parents/Taxpayers in the realm of education?.

Weird world we live in where teachers believe they are above over site and must adhere to the policy's of those who are footing the bill.

I saw nothing in that bill that was out of bounds.

Teaching that everyone is equal and no ones' genetic code makes them superior should be the goal and has great value.

Blaming living People for the actions of people long dead is disgusting.

Learning and Teaching basic Civics of America is a must..... that has been lost. The value of the constitution and the bill of rights and what makes this a constitutional republic needs to be of the highest priority in education.

Even the Ole Liberal Richard Dreyfuss

Amazon product ASIN B0B9183FT8
is massively concerned about our children and the loss of basic knowledge of how the govt works and what the Constitution stands for.



I find it strange that you toots allude to the idea that the Taxpayer and Voters via their elected officials are Fascist for demanding that you follow basic and prudent guidelines they desire while teaching their children all the while you are spewing you as the Dictator of One and the End all to be all of what should be taught in the class room. I don't think you understand what being a fascist is per say.

No where in that bill does it say you can't teach that in the past the American system had systemic racist principles. Absolutely no where does it say that at all. So the twitter meme is lame and a utter lie.

I would think Teachers would desire transparency and upfront disclosure of what they teach and say in the classroom? Why would any teacher be against this and if so what are they wanting to hide in the curriculum?

It seems that teachers believe they are above reproach or accountability of the Local and state communities.

 

[Toots_mcgee]

I just know people like you should have no input. You get a group of people who think they know everything and are god’s gift to society on a school board and you find out the best teachers are going to make their way to a neighboring school district.

You get people at the state level going nazi on teachers and they will leave the profession en masse.

 

[MGHS]

I know people like you shouldn't be allowed to teach.... dogmatic, elitist minded emotional manipulators who believe they are above evaluation and direction from their peers and pay providers.

Teachers like you are why legislation like this become the Policy and Procedure of the day. If teachers actually where seen as professionals who taught and educated the basic principles that the Public desired then they would first off be paid more and second off wouldn't be scrutinized and scoffed at by a Large portion of the citizenry. And then that portion of society demand oversite in the classroom.


Teachers like you are your own worst enemy..... you clearly don't understand how Public Education is structured. You are hired to represent and teach the Publics curriculum. As a public employee taking from the tax payer they have Incredible input upon your job duties. Bungle that up long enough and bad enough and this happens.

Please leave the Profession in mass because most employee's, you, myself and others are easily replaceable. Educators are not special and irreplaceable by any means.

I understand that any oversite that Activist Teachers perceive as being a speed bump to their message will be met with resistance. Educators who hate this benign bills passage, clearly see their Class room Fiefdom threatened.

Why the hate for not teaching lies.... why the hate for not teaching racial superiority ? Why the hate for not blaming the Living for the Dead's past misdeeds?

How would any logical minded person not want equality and the truth presented in the classroom?

 

[Toots_mcgee]

You don’t have a clue. The state gives us specific objectives for the kids to achieve. We design activities to help everyone learn.

That often requires addressing individual learning styles and disabilities within a classroom. We are there not to get rich nor just put food on the table. We are there to help the slowest learner, the highest level thinker and everyone in between to maximize their skills and knowledge. We don’t have time to dick around and brainwash people like you white supremacists want.

We know our subject matter and how to teach better than you ever will.

 

[bullitpdq68]

Funny how those who have never set one foot in a classroom are telling those who are in the classroom how to teach.
My daughter, mom, stepdad and sister and several other members of extended family are teachers, the issue is all of them just want to teach, and they teach what the state dictates, History Math, English....etc. They have no agenda yet people who have never been in a classroom since graduation say they are indoctrinating our youth today? They can't even teach because things that were in books 10,15,even 20 years ago are now being questioned... Books are being banned, they are being pulled in two different directions...by two competing factions.
History is taught so that we can learn from our past mistakes and hopefully not repeat them, but we are heading down a dark path of hatred and it both sides are equally to blame. Both libs and Conservatism is going to cause of a civil war and the destruction of this once great nation. Because both want to dictate what is taught to the youth in the classroom. You are seeing tribalism every day getting worse and worse.

 

[MGHS]

You don’t have a clue. The state gives us specific objectives for the kids to achieve. We design activities to help everyone learn.

That often requires addressing individual learning styles and disabilities within a classroom. We are there not to get rich nor just put food on the table. We are there to help the slowest learner, the highest level thinker and everyone in between to maximize their skills and knowledge. We don’t have time to dick around and brainwash people like you white supremacists want.

We know our subject matter and how to teach better than you ever will.

Yes I do have a clue as I have pointed out before we have a Accredited School at our Facility we employee a master educated teacher with a psychiatric education and back ground. I and others are employed to not only work within the school if called upon our Knowledge of the mental health field are also used as input within the very parameters you pointed out... so yes I am versed to some degree on this subject. I won't claim I'm as versed as the rank and file educator who does so on a daily bases, but we educate the Students that the Public educational professionals fail at.

I never stated that all Teachers tried to dick around and brainwash people.... but you clearly have agenda as you expose on this board almost daily. Your A person with a bent emotional personality as you have exhibited over and over on this board and clearly couldn't separate that in your professional life.

Again with the White Supremacists deflection.... Can you not actually address a subject without the blatant falsehood. Please stop projecting your personality traits on others. Me and My GF laugh at your attempts to label me as a WS.

How you turn not wanting to teach that any race is superior as being a White Supremacist trait is mind boggling.

 

[Toots_mcgee]

You are simply the greatest at everything.
We should all have to pay a fee just to read your posts because you are…….the most interesting man in the world.

 

[MGHS]

Funny how those who have never set one foot in a classroom are telling those who are in the classroom how to teach.
My daughter, mom, stepdad and sister and several other members of extended family are teachers, the issue is all of them just want to teach, and they teach what the state dictates, History Math, English....etc. They have no agenda yet people who have never been in a classroom since graduation say they are indoctrinating our youth today? They can't even teach because things that were in books 10,15,even 20 years ago are now being questioned... Books are being banned, they are being pulled in two different directions...by two competing factions.
History is taught so that we can learn from our past mistakes and hopefully not repeat them, but we are heading down a dark path of hatred and it both sides are equally to blame. Both libs and Conservatism is going to cause of a civil war and the destruction of this once great nation. Because both want to dictate what is taught to the youth in the classroom. You are seeing tribalism every day getting worse and worse.

I agree to a degree.... My Aunts are teachers. Some of My best buds are Teachers, I myself have to pull duty(rarely thank God) in our Class Room. I think most teachers are vested in doing the right thing.

These are the opinions of Teachers/Administrators who I trust they say it isn't with the Old Guard teachers for the most part it stems from the newer generation of educators who are much more engaged to try and interject bias into the classroom and to shun students who don't fall in line. I trust their opinions... it possibly could be a small sample size and I don't believe this problem has filtered into most rural schools either.

I've never voted in School board elections or ever taken much notice to those elections. But in Springfield Mo. last school board election cycle over 30 plus of my Friends/Acquaintances in the school system contacted me with concerns about the direction of the curriculum, system etc. and urged me to vote for certain candidates. I would say most of these people are moderate to liberal so if they are concerned I do think there must be some smoke.

I do find it suspicious that Toots and some other teachers seem to be protesting to much over a simple Bill that is not restrictive or over reaching by any degree at all. A Bill stating that no race shall be put before another and blaming the ills of the past on the current generation is not appropriate won't stop Toots from teaching his subject as he stated he and others do because they don't have time to address such things.

Nothing in that legislation will hinder the teaching of the 3/5 compromise or the overt racism built in to the System until the Civil Rights legislation of Whitney Young made such things illegal at the Federal level.

If they would actually address in some detail what they deem as the reasons why it will be restrictive and a burden that might help. But instead toots specifically went all White Racist and Nobody no matter their educational level or experiences has the Right to critique or scrutinize a Educator they are above any oversite and any input from the School Board, Public is seen as over reaching.

Which I find strange because toots is on record here as wanting more Govt/Public oversite of PRIVATE BUSINESS, LAW ENFORCEMENT,MILITARY, PRIVATE CITIZES RIGHT to not vax or Legally carry guns, Medical Facilities etc. But he is resistant to any forms of Public interest in his profession which involves children at a impressionable age! Very hypocritical to say the least.

 

[revno]

Yes I do have a clue as I have pointed out before we have a Accredited School at our Facility we employee a master educated teacher with a psychiatric education and back ground. I and others are employed to not only work within the school if called upon our Knowledge of the mental health field are also used as input within the very parameters you pointed out... so yes I am versed to some degree on this subject. I won't claim I'm as versed as the rank and file educator who does so on a daily bases, but we educate the Students that the Public educational professionals fail at.

I never stated that all Teachers tried to dick around and brainwash people.... but you clearly have agenda as you expose on this board almost daily. Your A person with a bent emotional personality as you have exhibited over and over on this board and clearly couldn't separate that in your professional life.

Again with the White Supremacists deflection.... Can you not actually address a subject without the blatant falsehood. Please stop projecting your personality traits on others. Me and My GF laugh at your attempts to label me as a WS.

How you turn not wanting to teach that any race is superior as being a White Supremacist trait is mind boggling.

Replying to an education thread with 8 double blues. How can anyone take you seriously? You can barely express yourself in a coherent manner, but you know the right way to teach our kids and grandkids?

 

[Toots_mcgee]

Bahahahahaha

 

[MGHS]

You are simply the greatest at everything.
We should all have to pay a fee just to read your posts because you are…….the most interesting man in the world.

And Toots you are clearly a one trick pony.... of demeaning and degrading insults. I understand why a individual who is so closed minded can't mount a counter point and thus are forced to refuse engagement in a topical debate in a civil manner. But for a person to be so immature they need to respond in a insult is rather pitiful.

How often on this board are you backed into the corner of personal attacks as your only defense? It is quite often and as a educator and as a influencer of young minds, I would suggest from a mental health stand point some self reflection might be in order.

It's not a good look for your profession as a whole..... and would be exhibit A for the reason that Oversite and more Outside scrutiny might be in order from the general public. If your only explanation for people having dissenting data and opinions is that they are uneducated, white supremacists who are the greatest at everything this is clearly not a defense at all but a effort to shield your ideas from criticism by attacking other individuals.

 

[MGHS]

Replying to an education thread with 8 double blues. How can anyone take you seriously? You can barely express yourself in a coherent manner, but you know the right way to teach our kids and grandkids?

Did I get into specifics on how to teach kids, did I delve into teaching theories? I simply stated there was not a thing in that Legislation that was bad or would hamper the Class Room

So far not one teacher has brought forth any credible reason that the bill would restrict or hinder their class room curriculum.

Maybe you should also actually address the OP.. but I get it attacking is much easier and satisfies some primal emotional desire when a actually credible rebuttal is impossible to form.

 

[revno]

"I simply stated there was not a thing in that Legislation that was bad or would hamper the Class Room."
So yeah, you did get into specifics, just like our supermajority in JC.

"So far not one teacher has brought forth any credible reason that the bill would restrict or hinder their class room curriculum."
How about fear?

"I have to pull duty(rarely thank God) in our Class Room."
Yes, thank you.

 

[MGHS]

What fear? Really that is your response as a whole no specifics? Fear of what? Explain? If you don't teach that particular race is superior and that Current Citizens are not responsible for the atrocities of past generations what is there to fear? And why would that be taught at all? Why would that language instill fear in teachers who are on the up and up?

It's a strange thought process that teaching everyone is equal and that you can't blame people for other peoples bad behaviors would instill fear?

 

[Expect2Win]

This bill is ridiculous. Who should be considered a reasonable person? Because we have beliefs does not mean we teach those things in school. I have never spoken about gun control, abortion, or LGBTQ in my classroom.

 

[Stryk3]

Funny how those who have never set one foot in a classroom are telling those who are in the classroom how to teach.
My daughter, mom, stepdad and sister and several other members of extended family are teachers, the issue is all of them just want to teach, and they teach what the state dictates, History Math, English....etc. They have no agenda yet people who have never been in a classroom since graduation say they are indoctrinating our youth today? They can't even teach because things that were in books 10,15,even 20 years ago are now being questioned... Books are being banned, they are being pulled in two different directions...by two competing factions.
History is taught so that we can learn from our past mistakes and hopefully not repeat them, but we are heading down a dark path of hatred and it both sides are equally to blame. Both libs and Conservatism is going to cause of a civil war and the destruction of this once great nation. Because both want to dictate what is taught to the youth in the classroom. You are seeing tribalism every day getting worse and worse.

This!! Well said!

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Funny how those who have never set one foot in a classroom are telling those who are in the classroom how to teach.
My daughter, mom, stepdad and sister and several other members of extended family are teachers, the issue is all of them just want to teach, and they teach what the state dictates, History Math, English....etc. They have no agenda yet people who have never been in a classroom since graduation say they are indoctrinating our youth today? They can't even teach because things that were in books 10,15,even 20 years ago are now being questioned... Books are being banned, they are being pulled in two different directions...by two competing factions.
History is taught so that we can learn from our past mistakes and hopefully not repeat them, but we are heading down a dark path of hatred and it both sides are equally to blame. Both libs and Conservatism is going to cause of a civil war and the destruction of this once great nation. Because both want to dictate what is taught to the youth in the classroom. You are seeing tribalism every day getting worse and worse.

You have to look at the overall agendas of the people pushing these things.

They want teachers to quit so they can close schools.

The poors like MG better be careful what they wish for.

 

[kaskaskiakid]

It seems that teachers believe they are above reproach or accountability of the Local and state communities.

You don't seem to understand that teachers are held accountable by the local school board and local citizens. Teachers have a 5 year probationary period when they may not have their yearly contract renewed without reason. If they are teaching ideas outside of the local population's acceptable norms and morals, they will be fired. Even with tenure they can be fired, it just takes a little longer. If enough people are unhappy with a teacher's teachings, the administration will give enough poor job evaluations to get rid of a tenured teacher. It happens all the time.

 

[Stryk3]

You have to look at the overall agendas of the people pushing these things.

They want teachers to quit so they can close schools.

The poors like MG better be careful what they wish for.

You don't seem to understand that teachers are held accountable by the local school board and local citizens. Teachers have a 5 year probationary period when they may not have their yearly contract renewed without reason. If they are teaching ideas outside of the local population's acceptable norms and morals, they will be fired. Even with tenure they can be fired, it just takes a little longer. If enough people are unhappy with a teacher's teachings, the administration will give enough poor job evaluations to get rid of a tenured teacher. It happens all the time.

LEA's will vary based on area you live in. It is common place for some ideologies to teach curriculum based on where you live. Rural, Big City, University towns etc...common core math, science, history, English should have a resemblance no matter where you live. Should teachers have their own beliefs represented to their students? in most cases yes. But the political ideologies of whatever aisle you are on, will certainly influence teachings. It is tougher than ever to be a teacher when being pulled in so many directions.

 

[revno]

What fear? Really that is your response as a whole no specifics? Fear of what? Explain? If you don't teach that particular race is superior and that Current Citizens are not responsible for the atrocities of past generations what is there to fear? And why would that be taught at all? Why would that language instill fear in teachers who are on the up and up?

It's a strange thought process that teaching everyone is equal and that you can't blame people for other peoples bad behaviors would instill fear?

It's not the people that are instilling fear. It's the Missouri state government, maga school boards, and anyone with a loud voice saying teach this, don't teach that.

 

[Toots_mcgee]

In my personal finance class, in addition to the class objectives I made sure every kid understood how insurance companies rip you off, what a bad investment a new car is, to always pay off your cc every month, how banks charge fees for things you would never expect which can steal your hard earned money, how corporate donors control state and federal gov officials, the importance of gov regulation to protect our environment, our food supply and our other resources etc etc etc. I never told anyone who to vote for or what party was best.

We talked about why and how more women work now than when I was a kid and the effect it has on family finances and decision making, but I never took a side on abortion.

If they asked who I voted for, I would tell them who and why. And they knew it was my reasoning and opinion and they have to make their own decisions.

I have a feeling that in todays classroom, there would have been complaints about my sharing what I consider important concepts to make informed decisions. I can’t imagine teaching without having that latitude.

 

[MGHS]

This bill is ridiculous. Who should be considered a reasonable person? Because we have beliefs does not mean we teach those things in school. I have never spoken about gun control, abortion, or LGBTQ in my classroom.

Then why are you concerned? You already follow the guidelines above and beyond what the legislation mentions. Nothing in that bill says you can't teach about those subjects at all. You already choose not to.

The phrase "Reasonable Person" is a legal term provided to courts and Jury's to determine negligence. I'd speculate that if a huge issue arises in a classroom then proof will be needed to determine if the legislation was broached. And the Administration/School Board would determine if the teacher violated the letter of the law. Possible it could be a jury or a judge if the situations was egregious.

Nobody is saying that all teachers try to propagandize.....a small select do. This bill address that situation. And is basically a road sign to make sure that activist teachers don't overstep their bounds which can happen if a person is passionate about a topic, this will help them stay focused on not let personal beliefs creep into their teaching style.

Clearly you and toots don't do so per your statements so why the Angst? In the Mental health field we are under all types of guidelines for our Protection and the Patients. Constant Video and Audio Surveillance, having to adhere to all the LGBQ+ etc. names and made up genders. Music, Politics, Race, Weapons, Religion, Medical/Psych History, etc. are all forbidden topics except in therapy.

To me this Legislation seems very minimal and not overreaching at all.

 

[MGHS]

You have to look at the overall agendas of the people pushing these things.

They want teachers to quit so they can close schools.

The poors like MG better be careful what they wish for.

LOL why would I want schools to close? And teachers to quit? What in this legislation would make teachers walk out the door? Outside of a over emotional response that is not warranted.

What agenda is there in Not wanting a Rogue teacher Blaming Students of today for past ills of the world? How will teachers having to refrain from Not teaching that one race is superior to another make a teacher quit? I mean I guess if a teacher had some real Racist tendency's and thought some races where superior it might be a issue but outside of that nothing as been brought forth that would suggest this is a over reach.

That is a Moderate few point.... I ask again what Agenda is there in this Legislation that is out of bounds and Political.

 

[MGHS]

v

You don't seem to understand that teachers are held accountable by the local school board and local citizens. Teachers have a 5 year probationary period when they may not have their yearly contract renewed without reason. If they are teaching ideas outside of the local population's acceptable norms and morals, they will be fired. Even with tenure they can be fired, it just takes a little longer. If enough people are unhappy with a teacher's teachings, the administration will give enough poor job evaluations to get rid of a tenured teacher. It happens all the time.

I understand how local school systems work. I 100% support the Localization of Schools over the Federalization of Schools.

Teachers who don't follow the curriculum that the local School Board, Administration and Local Tax paying citizens desire then they should find another district or other employment outside the profession if that is not acceptable to them. Again this is why our School System is Localized and not Federalized.

Teachers should be held accountable to the Local School Board, Administration and Tax payer.... what is wrong with that? Are Teachers above being held accountable?

I understand Tenure and for the Record I'm against it 100% on principle. Healthcare Professionals, Private Business Employee's, LEO, etc. don't have such a luxury as a buffer for removal, even if they have been employed 20 or 30 years. Most professions expect strict adherence to what ever guidelines they put forth and if they are not met then dismissal is the reality. Tenure after 5 years is a Luxury and you complain about it such entitlement.

If a teacher cannot teach within the accepted Norms and Mores of the Community that pays their salary then why should they not expect to be removed? A teacher is hired by the local community to teach within the confines of that community Values and Norms. It's not complicated.



If a teachers is a problem within a community and the community wants them to be removed then so be it that is how the system should work. No one is owed a job or employment. I find it strange that you seem to be in favor of Teachers being insubordinate and still maintaining employment?

 

[MGHS]

It's not the people that are instilling fear. It's the Missouri state government, maga school boards, and anyone with a loud voice saying teach this, don't teach that.

I ask again what in this legislation is saying you can't teach this and must teach that? Specifics are needed, maybe I missed something?


Maga school board are elected correct? If the Community Elects Maga school boards then clearly the desire within that Community is to have a core curriculum that reflects that Value set. That is how a Republic works..... and I would say outside of a the ever Shrinking Rural School districts finding a Maga School Board would be like finding a Needle on the Moon.

Are you as concerned about Leftwing Activist School Boards? Or is it just conservative traditional Value school boards that are your bane?



And the State Government should have a limited input as well in the school system nothing inherently wrong with that or subversive. They also reflect the statewide Voter and thus represent them and how they wish the school systems to operate across the state.

 

[MGHS]

In my personal finance class, in addition to the class objectives I made sure every kid understood how insurance companies rip you off, what a bad investment a new car is, to always pay off your cc every month, how banks charge fees for things you would never expect which can steal your hard earned money, how corporate donors control state and federal gov officials, the importance of gov regulation to protect our environment, our food supply and our other resources etc etc etc. I never told anyone who to vote for or what party was best.

We talked about why and how more women work now than when I was a kid and the effect it has on family finances and decision making, but I never took a side on abortion.

If they asked who I voted for, I would tell them who and why. And they knew it was my reasoning and opinion and they have to make their own decisions.

I have a feeling that in todays classroom, there would have been complaints about my sharing what I consider important concepts to make informed decisions. I can’t imagine teaching without having that latitude.

Toots I agree with your Curriculum for the most part.... I agree that Insurance companies do some shady things. Take Car insurance companies they will increase rates for the minor cost and reap profit for a year or more for that infraction, they force the populace to buy their product under the guise of public safety in a pseudo monopoly system.

Health care wise Insurance companies over charge the working man with premiums/copays/meeting deductions because of the Govt demand that Hospitals treat non-pays or govt payers and that doesn't meet the cost of healthcare and a cost shift happens back to the working taxpayer via insurance to cover those losses and Yes I know for a profit. I simply prefer private insurance with it's warts to govt controlled insurance, because the govt system would no doubt look like the VA/Medicaid/Medicare system and those are so inefficient and abusive it makes me shudder.

I will disagree with you a bit on a new car buy.... I've done both and the Last two vehicles I bought I bought new, but I put down a big payment upfront have cheap insurance and I don't rebuy until the wheels fall off and I'm handy and can do a lot of my own vehicle work. So it usually is a push long term. But yes for younger people who can't put down a chunk of change its smarter to buy used in most cases, but someone has to buy new or there would be no used cars LOL.

I'm middle ground on Govt regulations.. Yes some are needed, but some are actually counter productive and restrictive and end up doing more harm than good. People assume a govt regulation fixes the problem when more often than not the full measure of the issue isn't taken into account or the ability to even enforce said regulation.

Agree Big Donors on Both sides control the Govt... at all levels. Nobody can dispute that.

And yes women in the work place has Pro's and Con's.... Women have drove down Wages as they have doubled the Work force. Women working has impacted the early child development of several generations as well. These are all net negatives to a degree....

But I 100% support any women's right to work and be financially independent this is a huge Pro and a Must for any free individual in a Free Republic... but I know that women working has also had a effect on society as a whole, whether the Pro's out weight the Con's is up for debate. I'm on the Pro side but I can see the other side as well.

And Paying off a Credit Card every Month is a Must.. if any industry is akin to Loan Sharking it's the CC industry. I didn't even have a Credit Card for Years..... Paid Cash for everything, but of course it became near impossible to Rent a Car/Ditch Witch/Bucket Truck etc. or get a hotel room without a CC.

So I have a couple of questions what in your stated above teachings do you think people would have a problem with? And would be throttled down in your classroom?

I doubt anyone is going to disagree with you analysis on Insurance companies... or BIg Donors having two much Sway on Govt at all levels..... some might disagree with over how much regulation from the Govt. is necessary but I don't think anyone wants No Govt regulations either.

And I also have to ask how you Can at times come across as rational and level headed in your responses and then at other times you simply Berate and Demean or lie blatantly in a post without a shred of logical reasoning being written? You do seem to peak and Valley.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

LOL why would I want schools to close? And teachers to quit? What in this legislation would make teachers walk out the door? Outside of a over emotional response that is not warranted.

What agenda is there in Not wanting a Rogue teacher Blaming Students of today for past ills of the world? How will teachers having to refrain from Not teaching that one race is superior to another make a teacher quit? I mean I guess if a teacher had some real Racist tendency's and thought some races where superior it might be a issue but outside of that nothing as been brought forth that would suggest this is a over reach.

That is a Moderate few point.... I ask again what Agenda is there in this Legislation that is out of bounds and Political.

Nobody cares what you think.
You post like you do because nobody in your 'real life' listens to you.

 

[MoSooner69]

In my personal finance class, in addition to the class objectives I made sure every kid understood how insurance companies rip you off, what a bad investment a new car is, to always pay off your cc every month, how banks charge fees for things you would never expect which can steal your hard earned money, how corporate donors control state and federal gov officials, the importance of gov regulation to protect our environment, our food supply and our other resources etc etc etc. I never told anyone who to vote for or what party was best.

We talked about why and how more women work now than when I was a kid and the effect it has on family finances and decision making, but I never took a side on abortion.

If they asked who I voted for, I would tell them who and why. And they knew it was my reasoning and opinion and they have to make their own decisions.

I have a feeling that in todays classroom, there would have been complaints about my sharing what I consider important concepts to make informed decisions. I can’t imagine teaching without having that latitude.

So you loaded them up with YOUR opinion and presented as fact. Your first paragraph admits that.

 

[Toots_mcgee]

So you loaded them up with YOUR opinion and presented as fact. Your first paragraph admits that.

I gave concrete examples of each issue we discussed. Tell me one thing I said that isn’t true. We also learned how to file complaints with the BBB and the AG, how to file a small claim and how to correct errors on our credit report.

 

[MoSooner69]

Insurance companies "ripping you off" is an opinion. NOT fact, none of us likes rate increases. But SOMETIMES they are necessary. Not saying I agree with all actions of INS companies but its not always a rip off..... And buying a new car is not always a bad thing either...... Government regulation has benefits but also faults.
When you talked to them about the BBB did you also let them know that for companies to get on their "good side" said company has to "join" and pay a fee? I had no clue about this until I opened my own business and the BBB came calling with their hand out.....

 

[Toots_mcgee]

Insurance companies "ripping you off" is an opinion. NOT fact, none of us likes rate increases. But SOMETIMES they are necessary. Not saying I agree with all actions of INS companies but its not always a rip off..... And buying a new car is not always a bad thing either...... Government regulation has benefits but also faults.
When you talked to them about the BBB did you also let them know that for companies to get on their "good side" said company has to "join" and pay a fee? I had no clue about this until I opened my own business and the BBB came calling with their hand out.....

Every insurance agent I have ever encountered would gladly sell a 30 year old whole-life/universal life insurance. Anyone who knows personal finance knows that buying term life and investing the money you save will provide you with an exponentially better return. Thus-insurance companies will rip you off. Agents receive huge commissions for whole-life. NEVER BUY IT.

Ever heard of someone having a claim turned down and having to raise holy hell to get the insurance company to do the right thing? Literally everyone in my family has at one time or another. I’ve had to file a report with the state insurance commission. Thus-insurance companies will rip you off.

Ever heard of Dave Ramsey? Ask him if buying a new car makes sense. Used cars mean less of your assets are depreciated, less goes to the bank, less goes to pay for auto insurance. I encouraged them to save a car payment into the bank each month and then buy a pre-owned car with cash.

Gov regulation allows us to buy processed foods and actually get what we pay for. Read The Jungle.

Employment regulations help keep workers safe. Go work in a West Virginia coal mine in the 1920’s if you don’t believe me.

 

[Expect2Win]

First I am not worried about me. I am concerned for other teachers. Not everything has to be about me for me to care what happens to them and whether it is fair.
Should teaching be a political position? What other position does people get elected to oversee people with no knowledge or experience in the people they are making decisions about a career.

 

[MGHS]

Nobody cares what you think.
You post like you do because nobody in your 'real life' listens to you.

I don't care what you think because you have a proven track record on this board of having zero insight or awareness and I have no issue with you ignoring my post's. Actually I welcome it whole heartedly so Please do so at your discretion. It matters not to me.

 

[MGHS]

Every insurance agent I have ever encountered would gladly sell a 30 year old whole-life/universal life insurance. Anyone who knows personal finance knows that buying term life and investing the money you save will provide you with an exponentially better return. Thus-insurance companies will rip you off. Agents receive huge commissions for whole-life. NEVER BUY IT.

Ever heard of someone having a claim turned down and having to raise holy hell to get the insurance company to do the right thing? Literally everyone in my family has at one time or another. I’ve had to file a report with the state insurance commission. Thus-insurance companies will rip you off.

Ever heard of Dave Ramsey? Ask him if buying a new car makes sense. Used cars mean less of your assets are depreciated, less goes to the bank, less goes to pay for auto insurance. I encouraged them to save a car payment into the bank each month and then buy a pre-owned car with cash.

Gov regulation allows us to buy processed foods and actually get what we pay for. Read The Jungle.

Employment regulations help keep workers safe. Go work in a West Virginia coal mine in the 1920’s if you don’t believe me.

Buying a Used car does have more Risks, than Dave Ramsey reports and factors in. There are a lot of other peoples headaches in the used car business and the reporting of all the incidents of lemons sold to buyers is under reported by a huge percentage.

Of course if you can find a low mileage and well maintained Used car then buying one with cash makes sense and good advice. But buying new car and it's warranty and longevity can be important. I don't care about the depreciation because I never trade in a vehicle .... the dealers make more money off your trade in than they do selling a new car more often than not. Dealers Steal your trade in. Bank that. A dealer ship can operate just fine on a very very small profit margin on new cars.... the real money is in repairs and the stolen trade in on the used side.

Years ago When I bought my F150 Supercrew 4x4 I did so right after my buddy bought one. We got the same model basically same color, options, motor, transmission, I got bed extender he got sliding back glass only real difference. I paid 800$ more dollars than he did. No trade in. He traded in a Toyota 4x4 truck with Less than a 100K on it. He was bragging about how big of trade the give him.....After I bought mine I took a picture of his Truck on the used car side with a 10,000 grand on it..... I still gig him about how he gave away 9 grand to the dealer!! I sold my old Car to a individual for 2,500$


I just bought a new Rav4 in Aug. and my brother bought a used Honda CRV with low miles.... he has a few more options Leather seats and some Trim but my over all price was less for new. I know since C19 the car industry has been upside down, but I felt it was worth the 3 month wait for new.

 

[MGHS]

First I am not worried about me. I am concerned for other teachers. Not everything has to be about me for me to care what happens to them and whether it is fair.
Should teaching be a political position? What other position does people get elected to oversee people with no knowledge or experience in the people they are making decisions about a career.

City Alderman, Mayor/Manager over LEO, and all other Services provided by public entities. Trash, Health Dept., Public works... water, utilities, power, Cable/internet etc.

Come on surely you know how this works. All those people are elected or appointed by elected people and they oversee and make decisions about the careers of people who work in the public sector! That is how govt works and the School system is a extension of the public govt. Public schools are not private schools at all and the Public dang well has the right to impose it's will upon teachers as their tax dollars foot the bill, not taxation without representation.

Why are teachers special in your view point and shouldn't have oversite. I suspect that most People elected to school boards are College educated or been to college and have more than a rudimentary knowledge of how education works. And often as you know school boards are very influenced by the Administrators who they work with to a large degree.