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Middle-Out Economics

Buck Commander

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2012
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Middle-out economics is not just a catchy rhythmic contrast to trickle-down; it's a strategy based on a set of facts about how the economy really works.

Here are the premises derived from those facts:

-Demand from the middle class - not tax cuts for the wealthy - is what drives a virtuous cycle of job growth and prosperity.

-Rich businesspeople are not the primary job creators; middle-class customers are. The more the middle class can buy, the more jobs we'll create.

-America has the right and the responsibility to decide where the jobs created by our middle class will be located - here or in China.

-Trickle-down has given us deficits and a decimated middle class.

-Middle-out economics means investing in the health, education, infrastructure, and purchasing power of the middle class.

-Middle-out economics marks the difference between what is good for capitalism broadly versus what protects the vested interests of a select group of capitalists narrowly - and it invests in the former.

And here is the policy framework these premises demand:

-Create a truly progressive tax system. The richest citizens and the largest corporations pay a little more so that middle-class citizens and small businesses get the support they need to thrive. Loopholes are closed so wealthy individuals and the most profitable corporations actually pay more.

-Invest in the skills and health of the middle class. Continue investments in programs that help the middle class succeed, and convert poor families into middle-class families that can purchase goods from our nation's businesses and drive our economy.

-Fight for American businesses and jobs.

-Pursue balanced trade and economic development policies that encourage companies to make things in America and discourage foreign companies from competing unfairly with American workers and businesses.

-Help workers help business. Push for a fairer and more equitable split between workers and owners of the value created by enterprises. This does not punish capitalists or ask for their charity: Higher wages for workers means more business for American companies. It's Henry Ford's long view.

-Make strategic investments in the next middle-class industries. Invest strategically in the industries of the future. Make big investments in R&D, and offer tax incentives for consumers as well as for companies and investors to use the power of the market to foster innovation.

-Emphasize entrepreneurship and innovation. Provide smart regulations and incentives to enable ever more Americans to start businesses and generate the economic activity that will sustain us in the future. This is rooted in the recognition that the way to help businesses, small and large, isn't less regulation but more thriving customers.

Middle-out economics has several important advantages over trickle-down. One is reality: This is how complex, adaptive systems like economies in fact thrive. A second is politics: Middle-class voters will naturally prefer a story that puts them in the center as the prime actors, rather than at the margins as bit players. And the third is cultural intuition: We know in our gut that we're all better off when we're all better off.
 
Originally posted by Scout 4u:
Little to much info there Buck....
Not for those with a fully functioning brain and an IQ above 100...

Those are just the bullet points, that's as easy as I can make it for you.

Here I'll attempt to dumb it down for you...

Trickle down - bad, rich people duping you into making them richer under the premise that if they have more money they'll make more jobs.

Middle Out - fundamentally sound way of operating an economy. Puts economic growth in the vast hands of consumers as opposed to the narrow interests of the top 1%.

Even easier still, if the middle class has money to spend it spurs economic growth. The country benefits more from a middle class with spending power than from a few rich guys at the top producing things that normal Americans can't afford to buy.
 
Originally posted by HannibalLector:

For someone that was going to quit posting..........
Thanks for staying on topic. Never said I'd NEVER post again. In my absence, morons like millerbleach have become emboldened and are spewing their drivel all over the place. I could waste my time trying to fix stupid, and sheppard the feeble minded toward enlightenment, instead I'm trying to have an actual conversation about things that can help our country. Either respond to the content of the OP, or kindly eff off. Don't need your sass sweetheart.

You a trickle down guy Hanni? Or does Middle Out make sense to you?
This post was edited on 8/31 11:05 PM by Buck Commander
 
Buck,
101 Economics was a class most of us have already had in college. Our opinons on the subject however we're formed later in life as we moved into the work force and experienced life's ups and downs for ourselves . Your own personal life experiences though unique to "you", have little to no impact on anyone else.
I would suggest in the future however...
If you want to have "anyone" on this "opinion" board take you seriously then you might review your 201 Communication studies ...
Sorry to break the news to you Buck...

This post was edited on 9/1 10:30 AM by Scout 4u
 
All sounds like a utopian pipedream to me. The rich have the power and will never relinguish it to the middle class.
 
Bogey Man,
What the previous poster suggest to have happen would require an Act of Congress. Are you willing to give up your "Right" under the "Constitution" to be "Free" to make as much money as you can and then do with it what you wish...Or instead have someone else who knows much more than you make that choice on your behalf ?
I choose freedom...
 
Originally posted by Scout 4u:
Bogey Man,
What the previous poster suggest to have happen would require an Act of Congress. Are you willing to give up your "Right" under the "Constitution" to be "Free" to make as much money as you can and then do with it what you wish...Or instead have someone else who knows much more than you make that choice on your behalf ?
I choose freedom...
Stop with Buck, he just copys some article (without a link) and then calls you names if you point out the flaws.

Freedom is far more important than equality of outcome. There is no way to make economics equitible without removing freedom.
 
Sounds to me that all that he is proposing is for the rich businesses and individuals to pay more in taxes to support programs to benefit the middle class - none of which infridges on my rights or freedom.

Always p*sses me off to hear the very rich complain about taxes. Paying more in taxes isn't going to effect their quality of life one bit. They're not suddenly going to have to sell the Florida condo and yachtt. Heck yah I'm jealous, just don't have much sympathy for someone who has everything and complain about having to pay a couple percentage points more in taxes. And I am talking about the richest 1% that just keeps getting richer.

And don't give me that "socialism" crap. I truly believe that in our past, the wealthiest of Americans were always more generous in helping all Americans. That has changed in our society. We have become a selfish society - what I've got is mine and the heck with the rest.

No one can deny that the richest 1% - 5% is getting richer. The gap between them and the middle class is greater than anytime in our history. But nothing will change - we all know who is calling the shots.
 
Originally posted by Bogey Man:

Sounds to me that all that he is proposing is for the rich businesses and individuals to pay more in taxes to support programs to benefit the middle class - none of which infridges on my rights or freedom.

Always p*sses me off to hear the very rich complain about taxes. Paying more in taxes isn't going to effect their quality of life one bit. They're not suddenly going to have to sell the Florida condo and yachtt. Heck yah I'm jealous, just don't have much sympathy for someone who has everything and complain about having to pay a couple percentage points more in taxes. And I am talking about the richest 1% that just keeps getting richer.

And don't give me that "socialism" crap. I truly believe that in our past, the wealthiest of Americans were always more generous in helping all Americans. That has changed in our society. We have become a selfish society - what I've got is mine and the heck with the rest.

No one can deny that the richest 1% - 5% is getting richer. The gap between them and the middle class is greater than anytime in our history. But nothing will change - we all know who is calling the shots.
OK, your jealous....so am I. But, to say they don't do enough when they give everyone jobs (never got one from a poor person), pay the vast majority of taxes paid, and got there through a process of investing and risking, is not fair either. If we took 20% more of their income and wealth, everyone would still say the same things.
 
Originally posted by Scout 4u:
Bogey Man,
What the previous poster suggest to have happen would require an Act of Congress. Are you willing to give up your "Right" under the "Constitution" to be "Free" to make as much money as you can and then do with it what you wish...Or instead have someone else who knows much more than you make that choice on your behalf ?
I choose freedom...
It would take an act of Congress?

Why?
 
Bogey Man,
Government intervention is the only way to change the present course of the 1%.
To do that would mean new laws and regulations set for the purpose of curtailing their actions.
I for one am against Government intrution into anything without careful consideration of the consequence of those actions.

Only one example of why this is a bad idea.

Rush Limbaugh had a five year $400+ million dollar contract to stay on the radio in New York. His taxes on that money were astronomical. Local Democrate government leaders felt like that he could afford to pay more so at years end the tax code would change to make him pay his "fair share". After careful consideration, Rush simply waited just before the new law would take affect and closed up shop and moved to Florida where he bought an Island.
Took all those related jobs, taxable income, and future expansion with him.

My point?

Try telling a corporate giant that has far more money than Mr Linbaugh has what to do and you'll get the same result, only on a larger scale.

See GM
CHINA

This post was edited on 9/1 9:28 AM by Scout 4u
 
Originally posted by millerbleach:
Originally posted by Bogey Man:

Sounds to me that all that he is proposing is for the rich businesses and individuals to pay more in taxes to support programs to benefit the middle class - none of which infridges on my rights or freedom.

Always p*sses me off to hear the very rich complain about taxes. Paying more in taxes isn't going to effect their quality of life one bit. They're not suddenly going to have to sell the Florida condo and yachtt. Heck yah I'm jealous, just don't have much sympathy for someone who has everything and complain about having to pay a couple percentage points more in taxes. And I am talking about the richest 1% that just keeps getting richer.

And don't give me that "socialism" crap. I truly believe that in our past, the wealthiest of Americans were always more generous in helping all Americans. That has changed in our society. We have become a selfish society - what I've got is mine and the heck with the rest.

No one can deny that the richest 1% - 5% is getting richer. The gap between them and the middle class is greater than anytime in our history. But nothing will change - we all know who is calling the shots.
OK, your jealous....so am I. But, to say they don't do enough when they give everyone jobs (never got one from a poor person), pay the vast majority of taxes paid, and got there through a process of investing and risking, is not fair either. If we took 20% more of their income and wealth, everyone would still say the same things.
This isn't true though miller, the majority of jobs are created by the middle class.

And what's more, if the middle class had a bigger share of the pie they would dictate what goods and services they want produced, promoting further job growth.

Go back and actually read the OP, I'm calling for a lot of things to happen, but none that require an Act of Congress.
 
Originally posted by millerbleach:
Originally posted by Scout 4u:
Bogey Man,
What the previous poster suggest to have happen would require an Act of Congress. Are you willing to give up your "Right" under the "Constitution" to be "Free" to make as much money as you can and then do with it what you wish...Or instead have someone else who knows much more than you make that choice on your behalf ?
I choose freedom...
Stop with Buck, he just copys some article (without a link) and then calls you names if you point out the flaws.

Freedom is far more important than equality of outcome. There is no way to make economics equitible without removing freedom.
The thing is, if you actually read the post, I'm not calling for equality.

I'm not saying the rich can't be rich, I'm not saying there won't be poor people.

I cannot show you a single example in history of a society with NO poor people. I can however show you an example of a superpower born out of a healthy middle class extra money to throw around on some luxury goods.

Conversely the only examples of countries with elite plutocracies throughout history have ended in revolution and death. Think French Revolution, Carthage, Russia before the revolution.

Miller I urge you to actually read the original post and educate yourself before posting.
 
Originally posted by Scout 4u:
Buck,
101 Economics was a class most of us have already had in college. Our oppions on the subject however we're formed later in life as we moved into the work force and experienced life's ups and downs for ourselves . Your own personal life experiences though unique to "you", have little to no impact on anyone else.
I would suggest in the future however...
If you want to have "anyone" on this "oppion" board take you seriously then you might review your 201 Communication studies ...
Sorry to break the news to you Buck...
Scout,

What is an oppion?
 
Opinion ,
a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

Oppion,
Not a word, typographical errrror.

SEE,
Not everyone is perfect like you...
 
Originally posted by Scout 4u:
Opinion ,
a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

Oppion,
Not a word, typographical errrror.

SEE,
Not everyone is perfect like you...
Except you typed it 3 times. Once is a mistake, 3 times means you don't know how to spell the word.

Back to the topic at hand, this has nothing to do with my personal experiences, yours either.

If you took a second and thought really hard about it you'd know trickle down is a faulty system that the ultra wealthy duped Americans into believing 40 years ago. It's unsustainable and not nearly enough of the money actually trickles down. How are you OK with the top 1% having 42% of the nation's wealth? And knowing that that number is increasing...
 
Buck,
As to the misspelled word....opinion
I mistakenly over rode the spell check which in turn made all entries incorrect . Wasn't the first time, won't be the last.

As to economics in general, just don't see the point of debating.

Back at ya...
Why is it ok to steal from the rich and not the poor?
 
Originally posted by Scout 4u:
Buck,
As to the misspelled word....opinion
I mistakenly over rode the spell check which in turn made all entries incorrect . Wasn't the first time, won't be the last.

As to economics in general, just don't see the point of debating.

Back at ya...
Why is it ok to steal from the rich and not the poor?
How do you consider it stealing?

The obscenely wealthy need to figure out that when we all do well, we ALL do well.

If I have more money, it stands to reason that I'll spend more money. That is true of all people. More spending is a GOOD thing for the economy, AND the super rich. Having a larger pool of people with expendable income to buy their goods and services should increase their earnings without even having to give themselves a raise.

We all win in this scenario, there are less poor people living off of assistance, the middle class has more income and drives the economy, the rich are also making more money via more people with disposable income buying their product.

How is that bad?
 
Buck,
Don't disagree with any of that.
It's the "how do I get their money" part that seems a bit diabolical to me and other conservatives.
 
Seriously, no one on here can give an actual reason against this?

Is everyone clear that the OP doesn't mentions an obscene tax increase for the wealthy right?

I've got miller who obviously didn't read the post and Scout who thinks it's too hard to read (LOL) talking about "stealing from the rich". Can either of you enlightened thinkers tell me how this "steals from the rich?
 
Originally posted by Scout 4u:
Buck,
Don't disagree with any of that.
It's the "how do I get their money" part that seems a bit diabolical to me and other conservatives.
Scout, go back and actually read the post. No where in there does it talk about an obscene tax increase for the ultra wealthy.

I'm actually advocating for raising the minimum wage. Henry Ford method.

That's less diabolical than demonizing the poor and cannibalizing the middle class.
 
Re: Seriously, no one on here can give an actual reason against this?

Buck,
First off, no one on this board is going to convince anyone else their right...even if they are.
Next, if you really do want to make a difference then you need to go into politics.
Finally...
People on this site are not evil as some would have you believe...
Their just concerned about the direction the country is going from their perspective.
 
Re: Seriously, no one on here can give an actual reason against this?

Originally posted by Scout 4u:
Buck,
First off, no one on this board is going to convince anyone else their right...even if they are.
Next, if you really do want to make a difference then you need to go into politics.
Finally...
People on this site are not evil as some would have you believe...
Their just concerned about the direction the country is going from their perspective.
Scout,
If you know someone else is right and still choose to cling to your belief despite knowing it is wrong or flawed, then you (that person) are an idiot.

That's like people choosing to believe the planet is flat despite every bit of evidence saying it's round.
 
Re: Seriously, no one on here can give an actual reason against this?

Buck ,
Who would be right in a scientific test where (2)12oz containers were used, each holding the same amount of fluid, 170.097 grams.

Person #1 believes the containers were half full.
Person #2 believes the containers were half empty.
Person #3 believes that one is half full, the other half empty.

Is it not possible that all three could be right, based on their state of mind at the time?
 
Re: Seriously, no one on here can give an actual reason against this?

Buck I can tell you why many of the rich don't care about middle class income. They don't make a product or sell a service. MANY of our rich people today made most their money in the stock market and anything the middle class or people can do doesn't help them a lick. They just want MORE MORE MORE and they don't give a rip about anybody else. People have come up with way to make hundreds of thousands of trades a day. They have computers pick it for them and if they make a few cents on those trades they've had a good day. Throw in a few that make big money and they have a very good day. The human factor doesn't even enter into their thinking.
 
Re: Seriously, no one on here can give an actual reason against this?

Originally posted by Scout 4u:
Buck,
First off, no one on this board is going to convince anyone else their right...even if they are.
Next, if you really do want to make a difference then you need to go into politics.
Finally...
People on this site are not evil as some would have you believe...
Their just concerned about the direction the country is going from their perspective.
Who in God's name is going to take anyone serious that doesn't know the proper use of they're, their, and there? You can't use typos as an excuse this time.

"First off, no one on this board is going to convince anyone else their right...even if they are." they're right" as in they are.

"Their just concerned about" .....they're concerned as they are.

Tell me again, what planet are your from?
 
Re: Seriously, no one on here can give an actual reason against this?

No planet, just been trying out my verbal text on iPhone. Not perfect , but beats typing.
I'll get better, not sure about phone...lol
 
Re: Seriously, no one on here can give an actual reason against this?


Originally posted by Scout 4u:
Buck ,
Who would be right in a scientific test where (2)12oz containers were used, each holding the same amount of fluid, 170.097 grams.

Person #1 believes the containers were half full.
Person #2 believes the containers were half empty.
Person #3 believes that one is half full, the other half empty.

Is it not possible that all three could be right, based on their state of mind at the time?
Not the point. Trying to compare apples and oranges. If you know someone else is right, if evidence proves you are wrong and you still choose to hold a faulty belief, then you sir are an idiot.

Not necessarily saying YOU personally, just anyone who holds on to faulty or straight out wrong beliefs in the face of facts or better evidence. Those people are morons of the highest order, and what's more, they're holding back human progress.
 
Re: Seriously, no one on here can give an actual reason against this?

Buck,
Guess you win this round, the world is not flat and your post made a lot of sense.
Also turned off the Sirius imposter for at least today.
She needs some more work...lol
 
Holy Cow!


Originally posted by Scout 4u:
Buck,
Guess you win this round, the world is not flat and your post made a lot of sense.
Also turned off the Sirius imposter for at least today.
She needs some more work...lol
A neo-con from beyond the stars agrees with me.

Scout you've come a long way from "no compromise". Welcome to the dark side friend.
 
Re: Seriously, no one on here can give an actual reason against this?


Originally posted by 3Rfan:
Buck I can tell you why many of the rich don't care about middle class income. They don't make a product or sell a service. MANY of our rich people today made most their money in the stock market and anything the middle class or people can do doesn't help them a lick. They just want MORE MORE MORE and they don't give a rip about anybody else. People have come up with way to make hundreds of thousands of trades a day. They have computers pick it for them and if they make a few cents on those trades they've had a good day. Throw in a few that make big money and they have a very good day. The human factor doesn't even enter into their thinking.
I know, which begs the question, why do they deserve a tax break?
 
Re: Seriously, no one on here can give an actual reason against this?

Originally posted by Scout 4u:
Buck,
Guess you win this round, the world is not flat and your post made a lot of sense.
Also turned off the Sirius imposter for at least today.
She needs some more work...lol
I thought sirius was XM satellite radio service????

I think Siri is an Apple iOS application????
 
Re: Ag-man, this stuff is interesting.

Buck,
Not sure who your talking to so I'll use that excuse to respond.

Trickle Down Economics is a great idea assuming those doing the trickle care about those receiving it, they don't .
Other forms of economics I really no little about so no need to act like I do.

Will say that Democracy was suppose to be a great thing based on the Constitution. We see now how easily that can be looked over in the name of Justice.
 
Re: Ag-man, this stuff is interesting.


Originally posted by Scout 4u:
Buck,
Not sure who your talking to so I'll use that excuse to respond.

Trickle Down Economics is a great idea assuming those doing the trickle care about those receiving it, they don't .
Other forms of economics I really no little about so no need to act like I do.

Will say that Democracy was suppose to be a great thing based on the Constitution. We see now how easily that can be looked over in the name of Justice.
Scout,

Communism is a great idea on paper. Doesn't make it feasible.

Trickle down defies the laws of mathematics.
 
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