Metrics
- Thread starter vbsideout
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Do you know with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that WuFlu was the sole cause of death in EVERY reported death?
For the same reason we’ve given more tests: our population is four times that of any country in Europe.
touting raw counts of tests, cases and deaths as a comparison between countries is meaningless
I agree with the girl who asked Trump the question today. Why does it matter? Why isn’t the focus on stopping the deaths instead of constantly talking about if we are winning a competition with other countries?
The answer is obvious. It’s all about him. It’s not about Americans.
The answer is obvious. It’s all about him. It’s not about Americans.
Country: Population
United States: 328 million
Spain: 47 million
UK: 67 million
Italy: 60 million
Germany: 84 million
France: 67 million
These 5 EU countries: 325 million, roughly the same population as the United States.
Covid deaths from these EU countries: 125,000.
Covid deaths in the United States: 80,000.
I can already hear you, well you can't compare individual countries responses, ok fine, they're individual countries within the EU, that's JUST like individual states within the United States responding to the WuFlu.
Better, worse, who cares, the point is we have FAR less deaths than the five largest European countries with socialized "superior" healthcare.
Also, if we do the most testing, would it not also stand to reason we would have the most confirmed cases?
We need tests to help predict areas that may spike don't we?
Looks like NY is the Democrat model for handling pandemics.
Yes, the US had lower deaths than the worst affected places in Europe - namely, Italy/Spain/France. No denying that.
The UK also did a horrible job...they ramped up testing incredibly late. They were perhaps the worst managed 1st world country on earth.
But there's a lot of other places on earth with socialized medicine, and many of them did quite well - Japan, Korea, Australia, Greece, Germany, etc.
What you are really evaluating when you look at deaths from coronavirus is not socialized medicine. You're evaluating the ability of a government to detect and manage a pandemic - you're largely measuring detection capabilities plus the ability of a government and people to change their behaviors to avoid spread with the goal being to avoid having the health system overwhelmed like it was in Bergamo.
Nationwide are the hospitals overrun?
Are we testing more people than anywhere else on earth?
What's your argument?
My point is that there's this big red herring in this thread that socialized medicine is killing people or some nonsense like that. What matters is largely how your government responded proactively to the virus, which is mostly a measure of how your country's political leaders responded to the threat. Did they take it seriously? Did they listen to and empower experts? Did they proactively put in place testing, tracking, and treatment infrastructures? Did political leaders set the right example by staying home, wearing masks, etc.? Global results for that are all over the map.
There's a second red herring that the US has been some massive testing success story based on raw test counts. That's simply not borne out by data once you adjust for population size. We have not been testing more people than anywhere else on earth, and we absolutely were not doing so at the time when we needed to do so in order to minimize spread in February and March.
Korea, HK, Singapore, etc. have experience with SARS/MERS that probably gave them a leg up. It's the sort of thing we should have evaluated in January/February.
At no point have I said socialized healthcare is killing people, so you can go ahead and knock that off. I was however stating if those countries healthcare system was so much better than ours there should be a higher success rate of keeping people alive.
I'll ask again, if our response was so poor (as people have stated repeatedly on here) tell me, nationwide, are hospitals overrun? Simple yes or no.
I've never stated or implied our testing was a "success story" so again, stop trying to put words in my mouth. My statement was, we as a nation are testing more people than anywhere else on the planet. True or false?
Spin however you feel necessary, but our almost 8 million people tested does lead the way as far as confirmed data shows. Per capita is that the most? No. You can spin that whatever direction you want to spin it, reality is we're testing the people who show up to be tested.
As for what "should" have been done, hindsight is always 20/20.
Our hospitals didn't get overrun because people started staying home once Italy and Spain started falling into chaos. Not because of government action.
Yes because the majority of the population pays close attention to international news...
Just adding here to what has already been said. Pretty sure, South Korea has a involuntary placements policy of individuals that test positive for Cov19.
Personally, I have never been there, but I have read this happens. One cannot do this in the United States. This renders the SK comparison almost useless.
Secondly, where the heck is the Red Herring that captain obvious is always writing about?
I've seen very few articles suggesting the correlation between socialized medicine and Cov19 mortality rates one way or another.
As far as I am concerned, there is no Red Herring that on this subject.
Geez, insufferable bloviating references to things that don't matter but imply he knows what he is talking about once the Red Herring term is used.
If only I could write what I think about toolboxes with punchable faces.
What puzzles me is why these GD experts don't start every press conference talking about the risk assessment and how the data shows the Cov19 affects people differently.
What the metrics or experts don't explain, is the level at which testing and tracing regimen reaches the point where we can open back up?
So all this BS talk from the Duck tree is OK but it is BS.
Here's my captain obvious statement of the day-
Testing and tracing doesn't cure Cov19, and it's possible we may never find the cure.
We know what testing is for.
So at the end of the day, the medical experts are not the final word on if and when because there other factors involved in opening up versus not.
So at what point is what we're doing now lead to openess? "Like go to a ballgame" again?
We don't know. Because the idiots on TV don't do real reporting and the experts are playing the role from a medical perspective. Which is good. But GD. later
Personally, I have never been there, but I have read this happens. One cannot do this in the United States. This renders the SK comparison almost useless.
Secondly, where the heck is the Red Herring that captain obvious is always writing about?
I've seen very few articles suggesting the correlation between socialized medicine and Cov19 mortality rates one way or another.
As far as I am concerned, there is no Red Herring that on this subject.
Geez, insufferable bloviating references to things that don't matter but imply he knows what he is talking about once the Red Herring term is used.
If only I could write what I think about toolboxes with punchable faces.
What puzzles me is why these GD experts don't start every press conference talking about the risk assessment and how the data shows the Cov19 affects people differently.
What the metrics or experts don't explain, is the level at which testing and tracing regimen reaches the point where we can open back up?
So all this BS talk from the Duck tree is OK but it is BS.
Here's my captain obvious statement of the day-
Testing and tracing doesn't cure Cov19, and it's possible we may never find the cure.
We know what testing is for.
So at the end of the day, the medical experts are not the final word on if and when because there other factors involved in opening up versus not.
So at what point is what we're doing now lead to openess? "Like go to a ballgame" again?
We don't know. Because the idiots on TV don't do real reporting and the experts are playing the role from a medical perspective. Which is good. But GD. later
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The key to us actually reopening our schools and businesses without a vaccine in to test, identify the infected and separate them from everyone else. WHY IS THAT SO FREAKIN HARD TO UNDERSTAND?
We want the economy roaring again. But it won’t unless we get our heads out of our buttocks.
Yep, we should continue to shut down businesses and schools for a virus that predominantly affects the old and infirm...because...CNN says so...
Open it all, let people make informed decisions with their health and personal safety. Yeah not everyone will make it, but no one is going to live forever anyway. We can't baby proof the world for everyone indefinitely.
Exactly. We don’t have to do anything “indefinitely”. This is a relatively short term situation. So risking thousands of lives instead of millions is not the end of the world.
It’s exactly what we used to say to our football team. Are you mature enough to give up temporary comfort to achieve great things in the not so distant future? I am. Kaskaskia is. VB is. Sad is.
Forcing people who aren't at risk or who are extremely low risk to continue risking their, and the entire country's, economic future because MAYBE 1% of the population could die is fascism.
If people are at risk or scared, they should have the option to stay home. Adults should have the freedom to make their own decisions.
You've gone on before about how you wanted guns banned because of the suicide risk, do you happen to realize how many people killed themselves during the Great Depression? By FORCING people to keep their businesses closed, how many young, healthy, low risk people, are you setting up to die by suicide in the coming months/years because they are out of work and can't pay their bills? How many years will those 20, 30, 40 year olds have lived if people like you, Kaskaskia, Sad, and Veer2 hadn't been playing fascist, scared, political games?
By not letting people make their own informed decisions you're killing a LOT of people who would have otherwise lived long productive lives. Suicide is a way bigger threat to the general public than WuFlu.
I have not seen a rash of suicides locally in the past two months. I have seen a lot of unselfish people doing the right things.
And they are continuing to do the right things following the rules the governor has set forth.
But I haven’t been inside the steak houses or wineries to see any bad behavior.
I have carried out at least twice to every single local restaurant in my town and left sizable tips to try to help them thru. My wife gave a $22 tip on a $13 carry out and her waitress cried tears of joy. So far they have all stayed open. I imagine the local banks have been reasonable with them. This is working together for the greater good to save lives.
Lol and you talk about my reading comprehension...I said multiple times if we allow this to continue and not give people the option to open and or patronize businesses we will have an economic depression. Future tense.
Suicides due to economic hardship have killed more people than covid.
I'll ask again, how many 20, 30, and 40 year olds are you willing to sacrifice in order to make sure grandma gets that extra 2 years of life? How many years will they lose because you guys want everyone to hide?
Doesn't really matter who re-opens if you stay in your house and hide as they want me to do.
I refuse to live in fear, they can live how they want. They are only at risk if THEY choose to live life.
I refuse to live in fear, they can live how they want. They are only at risk if THEY choose to live life.
There may never be an actual vaccine and life and the economy has to go on. Why is that so freaking hard to understand? There are flu shots but there is no definitive flu vaccine. Civilization isn’t ending. If you want to continue to hide in your basement with your sock puppets then go ahead.
There's tons of evidence, such as daily flight statistics, google tracking of cell phones, etc. that substantial amounts of people were staying home in advance of government warnings.
This was the #1 news story on earth...of course they saw it. Plus you had the initial Seattle outbreak, it was already here.
What is "substantial"? 10%? 20%? Because I've seen the exact same statistics and until mid-March...you know after the government started telling people to alter their behavior was when the biggest shift in public behavior actually happened. Even then that was only in certain parts of the country.
And I am saying you are being very dramatic, fear mongering and full of crap. Where are all these suicides and how can you prove they wouldn’t have happened any way???? Shoe is on the other foot, Bucko
I'll just leave these here and let you educate yourself...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cl...e-to-the-coronavirus-pandemic/?outputType=amp
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...-soar-and-people-remain-isolated-at-home.html
https://thediplomat.com/2020/05/thailand-the-coronavirus-suicides/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/279961/
i’ve washed my hands a little more and I’ve been careful around my parents who are high risk but I’ve worked the whole time and I’ve studied evough history to know that the last 50-60 years or so is one of the few times in history that pandemics weren’t common.
There is a difference between using reasonable precautions and hiding in your basement waiting for some miracle cure that is going to prevent any risk of getting sick.
I’m lucky but people out there are really hurting and need to get back to work and are willing to take the 1% chance that they will get sick.
5-10% chance that they'll get seriously sick. 1% (or likely much less) that they'll die.
I have to say bruh, you are consistent with what the media tells you. Right down to the temporary inconvenience narrative.
This narrative is such a denial of the everyday actuarial data, that is used to develop real public health policy. Or in short, Science. lol
It's that bumper sticker mentality, that the brain dead just eat up.
It's astonishing how tone deaf the people on TV, that have jobs, push the permanent lockdown.
But I'm a broken record.
Yes. We must protect the vulnerable. In fact, nursing homes are notorious for killing the occupants with infectious diseases.
While we are at, we could do some good and clean them up.
I did catch the cynical roaring economy comment. I mean this is Christmas time for communists. Not so ironically, the CCP brought this plaque upon us, and ideologues are surely siezing the moment.
You trumpsters are sure set on letting people do as they please since it's their body and some of even state that their life is unimportant. This is the same people that like to tell women having abortions what they should do with their body. I was sure a life is a life. Hypocrites.
You gave me links about projections, the Great Depression and Thailand?
Bahahahahaha. No actual suicides. No proof anyone has committed suicide because a governor wants to save their family. Nothing. Fail.
Not hard data. 82,000 presumed dead from Covid. I’m not saying the number is necessarily wrong but included in that total are many deaths where Covid may not have been the actual cause of death...and before one of your puppets stroke out of course there have been suicides and drug and alcohol abuse tied to bring on lockdown without a job. You really can’t deny that with a straight face.
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