Interesting. ...

[mowesten]

Okay man, I hate to be that guy ... And I’ve really been debating for a while if I wanted to post about this because in my 20 years of following high school athletics, I’ve never publicly criticized all-state teams.

But I would like someone to explain to me how Brandon Fredrick was left off the Class 4 all-state team. Nothing against the other 20 players who made it, but it makes me wonder if the people who vote on these things and put them together even watch basketball.

I know every year there is someone that people feel was left out, but has there ever been someone with Fredrick’s state line left off? I’m not talking about someone who put up big numbers playing at the Class 1 level or something, I’m talking about a kid on a Class 4 team that went 23-5 playing good competition in St. Louis who had as good a season and was left off?

 

[midmoguy]

Okay man, I hate to be that guy ... And I’ve really been debating for a while if I wanted to post about this because in my 20 years of following high school athletics, I’ve never publicly criticized all-state teams.

But I would like someone to explain to me how Brandon Fredrick was left off the Class 4 all-state team. Nothing against the other 20 players who made it, but it makes me wonder if the people who vote on these things and put them together even watch basketball.

I know every year there is someone that people feel was left out, but has there ever been someone with Fredrick’s state line left off? I’m not talking about someone who put up big numbers playing at the Class 1 level or something, I’m talking about a kid on a Class 4 team that went 23-5 playing good competition in St. Louis who had as good a season and was left off?

I am curious to know his stat line. Could you post it for us?

 

[mowesten]

Fredrick averaged 28.2 points per game, made 112 3-pointers through the first 20 games, shot 50 percent from 3, 54 percent from the field, 87 percent from FT line, 5.7 assists, 5.2 steals.

He was second in St. Louis metro area in scoring, led in 3-pointers made (by 2.5 per game), third in FT percentage, third in steals. St. Louis metro also includes Illinois' side, BTW, so that's at least halfway legit IMO.

I should point out that I have nothing to do with Confluence, don't know the kid or anyone in their program, so this isn't some angry mom situation. I probably watch as much basketball as anyone across the state, and I'm pretty confident this kid was deserving or I wouldn't be posting here.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Wouldn't hurt a thing to add a 10 player honorable mention to each team.

Other than to water down the honor?

 

[Eagles_Ball]

There are probably an average of 2000 players in each class. 160 get All-District. How is it watered down to give All-State (1st + HM) to 30?

30/class just seems like a lot. It should mean something. All-state should be prestigious. If you give the award to 150 players in the state, just not sure it really means all that much. Heck, I'd advocate for 10-15/class instead of 20.

 

[msubearssuperfan1]

I think the MBCA should have a first team and a second team and an honorable mention team just like the MSSA did for many, many years. It wouldn't "water down" ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jball40]

Other than to water down the honor?

We don't need participation trophies

 

[Cant-Coach-Just-Blog]

I could be wrong but in order for a player to make the MBCA All state team their coach has to be a member of the MBCA. Correct me if I’m wrong please

So this could have been the reason the Confluence player didn’t make it because he was most definitely deserving

 

[Eagles_Ball]

I think the MBCA should have a first team and a second team and an honorable mention team just like the MSSA did for many, many years. It wouldn't "water down" ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

5 on each team?

 

[hangmanbobbyjaggers]

Okay man, I hate to be that guy ... And I’ve really been debating for a while if I wanted to post about this because in my 20 years of following high school athletics, I’ve never publicly criticized all-state teams.

But I would like someone to explain to me how Brandon Fredrick was left off the Class 4 all-state team. Nothing against the other 20 players who made it, but it makes me wonder if the people who vote on these things and put them together even watch basketball.

I know every year there is someone that people feel was left out, but has there ever been someone with Fredrick’s state line left off? I’m not talking about someone who put up big numbers playing at the Class 1 level or something, I’m talking about a kid on a Class 4 team that went 23-5 playing good competition in St. Louis who had as good a season and was left off?

Not sure, but I would check and see if his coach paid his MBCA dues! If he did not, that is the first round of cuts.

 

[EdSmith1234]

What does it take to make all state? I know every year good players get left off and undeserving players get put on.

 

[msubearssuperfan1]

I'd go with 10 per team, then the honorable mention group would be an unlimited number that met certain criteria.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

I'd go with 10 per team, then the honorable mention group would be an unlimited number that met certain criteria.

That's the ultimate definition of watered down.

 

[wahoolives]

What's wrong with having 10 first team 10 second team and 10 honorable mention for each class. Say for argument their are 1500 kids per class playing basketball if you honor 30 that means you have to be in the top 2% for your class. 2% is a pretty exclusive group.

 

[msubearssuperfan1]

Jordan Walton should've been second team Class 5 and Jaxon Davis honorable mention, in my opinion. I really think the MBCA needs to expand the lists a little.

 

[3Rfan]

I could be wrong but in order for a player to make the MBCA All state team their coach has to be a member of the MBCA. Correct me if I’m wrong please

So this could have been the reason the Confluence player didn’t make it because he was most definitely deserving

Last I heard their coach doesn't have to be a member but another coach that is would have to nominate the player.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

What's wrong with having 10 first team 10 second team and 10 honorable mention for each class. Say for argument their are 1500 kids per class playing basketball if you honor 30 that means you have to be in the top 2% for your class. 2% is a pretty exclusive group.

But there aren't anywhere near that many actual players per class. You have about 550 boys basketball teams in MO. Let's say you have 8 lettermen per team (I think that's a pretty fair number). You've got about 800-900 "players" per class. 15 just feels right to me...That's 75 each year for five classes. Maybe it's just me, but if 149 other basketball players get the same award as me...just seems to lose a little luster.

For comparison sake...there are 347 D-I basketball teams. 15 players make All-American. That's basically the same equivalent to an All-state team. That's 15 players for 347 teams. Compared to my numbers of 75 for approx 550 teams. I get HS isn't D-I, not what I'm saying. Just merely comparing equitable numbers.

There are lesser honors for some really good players, that just aren't elite....Each conference has an all-conference team. And each district has an all-district team. IMO, that's where those really good players get their honors.

 

[wahoolives]

I guess it depends on how you define "actual players" but even at 8 per team for class 1 to 3 that's 1024 players to recognize 30 is still less than 3 percent, I just don't see that as watered down especially if you do 1st 2nd and honorable mention, so a 1st team kid is one of 10 for their class, cause if we were just talking top so many players in state not many class 1 and 2 kids would make that list. I guess I just don't see the harm in letting kids enjoy recognition at the all state level, and doubt that any would be like all state who cares 30 people make it, if only 20 made it or 15 then I would get excited about it.

 

[my3hornetsons]

Ultimately when you look at the big picture of basketball in general, those that truly follow the sport throughout not just the state of Missouri, but nation, know that not all Good, Excellent, or Prestigous players are playing for their High Schools. Some will run a circuit all year round if given the opportunity to, due to exposure. Because getting recruited for basketball is very very competitive, and your STAT line as well as recognition does matter at times during the recruitment process. So, having a 1st and 2nd team for the HS all state teams would be a great suggestion. It would help to get some of the MO young men, who are playing High School ball, more recognized, and maybe open up opportunities for some of the shorter more athletic, defensive, all a round players with the solid STAT lines. Another factor that goes into this decision too, i would want to believe is leadership and sportsmanship when making these selections.

 

[midmoguy]

T

Ultimately when you look at the big picture of basketball in general, those that truly follow the sport throughout not just the state of Missouri, but nation, know that not all Good, Excellent, or Prestigous players are playing for their High Schools. Some will run a circuit all year round if given the opportunity to, due to exposure. Because getting recruited for basketball is very very competitive, and your STAT line as well as recognition does matter at times during the recruitment process. So, having a 1st and 2nd team for the HS all state teams would be a great suggestion. It would help to get some of the MO young men, who are playing High School ball, more recognized, and maybe open up opportunities for some of the shorter more athletic, defensive, all a round players with the solid STAT lines. Another factor that goes into this decision too, i would want to believe is leadership and sportsmanship when making these selections.

To your point, I know a kid who didn't make the all state team even though he averaged about 25 points due to style of play. Kid was an average ball handler, and didn't come past 1/2 court after their press to defend. He sure could shoot the heck out of the ball, but that was about it. In terms of a top 20 player in Class 3, no way, top 20 shooter yes. But I cold have picked a bunch of better overall players. Stats don't always tell the entire story. Doesn't sound like the case however with this Fredrick kid however.

 

[mosofan]

I like 20 in total being honored per class. However, on a school team, only 5 players are starters (1st team), so why don't we have 5 on 1st team, 5 on 2nd team, and 10 honorable mention? That would really make 1st team mean something!