Holy Crap

[Expect2Win]

This absolutely insane. I don't know why this wasn't stopped immediately.
Wonder what the difference is between this video and the one coming later tonight.

 

[MGHS]

I'm sure the LEO officers where trying to determine the situation and who was who and who was presenting the actual threat the 911 call was vague because the attacker was listening.... it was about 14 seconds before the attack after the Police opened the door. If LEO would of just rushed in before a imminent threat of violence was presented and they injured the criminal or killed him then of course it would of been seen as police brutality and overreach, once the offender tried to attack the victim then LEO responded with fast action.

I would have had zero issue if LEO would of told DePape to drop the hammer and after he refused shot him dead as it appeared he showed a threat to Paul Pelosi and a 82 year old man should not have to endure a Hammer to the skull and risk death and LEO should have to put themselves in physical harm if they can eliminate the threat quickly and easily.

But of course that would never be a option in San Francisco... I'm shocked the Police still have guns in the city.

 

[3Rfan]

I'm sure the LEO officers where trying to determine the situation and who was who and who was presenting the actual threat the 911 call was vague because the attacker was listening.... it was about 14 seconds before the attack after the Police opened the door. If LEO would of just rushed in before a imminent threat of violence was presented and they injured the criminal or killed him then of course it would of been seen as police brutality and overreach, once the offender tried to attack the victim then LEO responded with fast action.

I would have had zero issue if LEO would of told DePape to drop the hammer and after he refused shot him dead as it appeared he showed a threat to Paul Pelosi and a 82 year old man should not have to endure a Hammer to the skull and risk death and LEO should have to put themselves in physical harm if they can eliminate the threat quickly and easily.

But of course that would never be a option in San Francisco... I'm shocked the Police still have guns in the city.

You don't have to shoot to kill in that situation but they should have been ready to shoot the instant he drew the hammer back to hit Mr. Pelosi.

 

[revno]

What about the "LEO" on his phone at the start of the video? You think he was ready to spring into action? What was he determining?

 

[MGHS]

You don't have to shoot to kill in that situation but they should have been ready to shoot the instant he drew the hammer back to hit Mr. Pelosi.

Really you know nothing about Guns or gun tactics and procedures at all or the skill it takes to hit a movie target the size of a Leg or Arm. This ain't the movies and you don't aim to shoot Arms or Legs... You mostly aim Center mass or a Head Shot to Kill quick and efficiently. Every Miss has the potential to kill a innocent civilian....

Why shooting to wound doesn’t make sense scientifically, legally, or tactically

Force Science re-states its case in light of recent 'no-kill bill' proposal

www.police1.com

Shooting Not to Kill: A Debate That Frustrates Police

Why don’t police officers shoot not to kill? It’s a question that frustrates many in law enforcement.

www.pbs.org

People who know zero about guns and lack common sense believe that you can shoot to incapacitate like the Lone Ranger ,always shooting the Villains hands so they will drop their guns. Those shows where made for children..... they have no bases in reality. Still Love to watch them but it's all fantasy.

 

[MGHS]

What about the "LEO" on his phone at the start of the video? You think he was ready to spring into action? What was he determining?

I'm betting he was on the Phone talking about the aspects of the situation if it was the right residence, should they go in without a warrant, should they wait for a Special Unit, a lot of things go into this.... because in the past LEO have responded to situations in a aggressive manner and botched things. Now the Pendulum as swung the other way and LEO tend to want to cautious.

 

[3Rfan]

I'm betting he was on the Phone talking about the aspects of the situation if it was the right residence, should they go in without a warrant, should they wait for a Special Unit, a lot of things go into this.... because in the past LEO have responded to situations in a aggressive manner and botched things. Now the Pendulum as swung the other way and LEO tend to want to cautious.

So you think the local cops didn't know who lived in that house? She's had many threats over over the last few years and it's been a heightened issue since Jan 6th. The 911 call said it was Pelosi's house and you can bet that information was given to the cops.

 

[3Rfan]

Really you know nothing about Guns or gun tactics and procedures at all or the skill it takes to hit a movie target the size of a Leg or Arm. This ain't the movies and you don't aim to shoot Arms or Legs... You mostly aim Center mass or a Head Shot to Kill quick and efficiently. Every Miss has the potential to kill a innocent civilian....

Why shooting to wound doesn’t make sense scientifically, legally, or tactically

Force Science re-states its case in light of recent 'no-kill bill' proposal

www.police1.com

Shooting Not to Kill: A Debate That Frustrates Police

Why don’t police officers shoot not to kill? It’s a question that frustrates many in law enforcement.

www.pbs.org

People who know zero about guns and lack common sense believe that you can shoot to incapacitate like the Lone Ranger ,always shooting the Villains hands so they will drop their guns. Those shows where made for children..... they have no bases in reality. Still Love to watch them but it's all fantasy.

The cops were 10 feet away, if they can't shoot a fat guy in the leg standing still at that distance they have no place on the police force. Surely at least one of them would hit where they were aiming.

 

[MGHS]

So you think the local cops didn't know who lived in that house? She's had many threats over over the last few years and it's been a heightened issue since Jan 6th. The 911 call said it was Pelosi's house and you can bet that information was given to the cops.

I'm sure they was confirming something, even the address would be double checked. And let's not over dramatize the threats most politicians have threats but that doesn't mean that the Local LEO are not going to go by the book, in fact they will be extra careful and diligent in regard to someone like Pelosi and make sure their superior officers are giving the OK per policy.

I think it's funny that you seem to want to blame LEO for something they could not of prevented.

 

[MGHS]

The cops were 10 feet away, if they can't shoot a fat guy in the leg standing still at that distance they have no place on the police force. Surely at least one of them would hit where they were aiming.

So your assuming he would stand perfectly still..... did you even read the scientific Data that you can move your arm and leg faster than you can pull a trigger. Have you ever even practiced shooting a firearm at a swinging/pendulum target? I suspect not and hitting it is no easy feat. There is a reason why you aim for center mass.

Your showing your lack of knowledge on guns and living in a fantasy world and making comments that have zero merit on a subject that you have clearly never educated yourself on. It's not a good look.

Here is a thought join a gun club and go to a real world firing range and simulate a actual shooting scenario and then get back to me. Going out and standing 10ft away from a stationary board or shooting tin cups off a fence post is not going to develop gun skills.

And you are assuming that a Leg or Arm shot would incapacitate the criminal and he couldn't do further damage to the victim, even center mass shoots don't always immediately render the criminal incapable of harm, hitting center mass with more vital organs ups the chance of limiting the violence. There is a reason and a science behind nobody in LEO or who takes a self defense class is taught to aim for Arms and legs. It's just utterly ignorant and idiotic to think that is a possible option.
Also shooting someone in the leg can easily be fatal if you hit the femoral artery you bleed out in less than a few minutes.... That's just basic knowledge of anatomy.

 

[3Rfan]

So your assuming he would stand perfectly still..... did you even read the scientific Data that you can move your arm and leg faster than you can pull a trigger. Have you ever even practiced shooting a firearm at a swinging/pendulum target? I suspect not and hitting it is no easy feat. There is a reason why you aim for center mass.

Your showing your lack of knowledge on guns and living in a fantasy world and making comments that have zero merit on a subject that you have clearly never educated yourself on. It's not a good look.

Here is a thought join a gun club and go to a real world firing range and simulate a actual shooting scenario and then get back to me. Going out and standing 10ft away from a stationary board or shooting tin cups off a fence post is not going to develop gun skills.

And you are assuming that a Leg or Arm shot would incapacitate the criminal and he couldn't do further damage to the victim, even center mass shoots don't always immediately render the criminal incapable of harm, hitting center mass with more vital organs ups the chance of limiting the violence. There is a reason and a science behind nobody in LEO or who takes a self defense class is taught to aim for Arms and legs. It's just utterly ignorant and idiotic to think that is a possible option.
Also shooting someone in the leg can easily be fatal if you hit the femoral artery you bleed out in less than a few minutes.... That's just basic knowledge of anatomy.

I saw the video, he DID stand perfectly still for quite sometime. Once he pulled the hammer away from Mr. Pelosi they had ample time to shoot him without killing him. Instead they allowed him strike Mr Pelosi with the hammer before they did anything. I'd bet if you get shot in the leg you grab that leg and forget about the hammer, it's just plain instinct and he would most likely fall down too! You think you know absolutely EVERYTHING!

 

[bullitpdq68]

The cops were 10 feet away, if they can't shoot a fat guy in the leg standing still at that distance they have no place on the police force. Surely at least one of them would hit where they were aiming.

I am guessing if they shot the man and wounded or killed him , Pelosi's husband would never been attacked with a hammer and the cops would be suspended facing prosecution and Pelosi would be calling for less violent interaction with suspects.
The issue is you are damned if you do and damned if you don't, because people will never know what would have happened had you done something different. It is so easy to second guess all decision.

 

[3Rfan]

I am guessing if they shot the man and wounded or killed him , Pelosi's husband would never been attacked with a hammer and the cops would be suspended facing prosecution and Pelosi would be calling for less violent interaction with suspects.
The issue is you are damned if you do and damned if you don't, because people will never know what would have happened had you done something different. It is so easy to second guess all decision.

They had body cams on and rolling that's how I saw what happened. His attempt to strike Pelosi would have been on that video. He was in the house uninvited and would not take the orders the police were giving him, all of that was on the video too.

 

[bullitpdq68]

They had body cams on and rolling that's how I saw what happened. His attempt to strike Pelosi would have been on that video. He was in the house uninvited and would not take the orders the police were giving him, all of that was on the video too.

You and I both know if they shoot thier actions no matter the provication would have been questioned no matter what the video showed. It just tells you in a split second how fast something can change.

And I am not saying it was right or wrong just telling how it is today.

 

[MGHS]

I saw the video, he DID stand perfectly still for quite sometime. Once he pulled the hammer away from Mr. Pelosi they had ample time to shoot him without killing him. Instead they allowed him strike Mr Pelosi with the hammer before they did anything. I'd bet if you get shot in the leg you grab that leg and forget about the hammer, it's just plain instinct and he would most likely fall down too! You think you know absolutely EVERYTHING!

Once again he could of moved at any time faster than the police can pull the trigger....you are completely and utterly wrong on this subject. No LEO agency agrees with your Hollywood Fantasy and No scientific study done on the subject backs up your Non-Lethal Leg and arm shots. Why you can't accept the science that has been done for near on a 100 years boggles my mind. Only people who garner their Gun idea's from Movies and TV think this is the correct course of action.

Why you ignored the fact you Always shoot to KILL the criminal to keep him from doing harm to the victims and the Police as opposed to a Leg or Arm shot which has a whole host of issues to everyone involved. Center Mass is always the target and that is what Everyone who get's gun training is taught to aim for. Quick and Efficient Kills.

I do know about Gun's have had training from Former retired U.S. Marshal and Marine/Army Sniper and can do some simple research on the Subject , I know about mental health work in that field, Anthropology, Sociology, Criminal Justice.. got degree's in those.

As far as the rest of my knowledge like Farming... I do it and was taught by my dad, uncle and grandpa, Sports played and Coach. Or I simply do research into the subject.
The difference between you and me is I don't want to be unknowledgeable about a subject I am discussing. I want a basic or even higher foundation of verified information before I speak. You seem to be satisfied with just making up your own ideas...Like on Guns and going with that. To each his own. But it make you wrong on this 100%.

 

[revno]

I'm betting he was on the Phone talking about the aspects of the situation if it was the right residence, should they go in without a warrant, should they wait for a Special Unit, a lot of things go into this.... because in the past LEO have responded to situations in a aggressive manner and botched things. Now the Pendulum as swung the other way and LEO tend to want to cautious.

He wasn't talking on his phone.

He was looking at it, Angry Birds-posture, just like most of our vigilant officers.

 

[MGHS]

Do you really think in that situation he was just trolling his phone? LEO was at a high profile residence and under video surveillance and you think he was playing a game on his phone?

In reality Paul Pelosi is responsible for his own safety and property protection to a large degree. SF has a bit under 2,000 officers.... the city has a population of about a million. Not all of those officers are Patrol LEO many are behind the desk administrative, forensic types. SF has around 26 officers for every 10,000 citizens..... if Paul wasn't a Politicians husband the response time would of been longer and the amount of Officers on the scene would of been drastically reduced. As you can bet that other crimes and violence was still on going and resources clearly where pulled from other area's for this incident.

 

[Expect2Win]

Do you really think in that situation he was just trolling his phone? LEO was at a high profile residence and under video surveillance and you think he was playing a game on his phone?

In reality Paul Pelosi is responsible for his own safety and property protection to a large degree. SF has a bit under 2,000 officers.... the city has a population of about a million. Not all of those officers are Patrol LEO many are behind the desk administrative, forensic types. SF has around 26 officers for every 10,000 citizens..... if Paul wasn't a Politicians husband the response time would of been longer and the amount of Officers on the scene would of been drastically reduced. As you can bet that other crimes and violence was still on going and resources clearly where pulled from other area's for this incident.

Victim blaming SMH

 

[3Rfan]

Do you really think in that situation he was just trolling his phone? LEO was at a high profile residence and under video surveillance and you think he was playing a game on his phone?

In reality Paul Pelosi is responsible for his own safety and property protection to a large degree. SF has a bit under 2,000 officers.... the city has a population of about a million. Not all of those officers are Patrol LEO many are behind the desk administrative, forensic types. SF has around 26 officers for every 10,000 citizens..... if Paul wasn't a Politicians husband the response time would of been longer and the amount of Officers on the scene would of been drastically reduced. As you can bet that other crimes and violence was still on going and resources clearly where pulled from other area's for this incident.

I thought you figure didn't they didn't know whose house it was, now you say the response time was faster because of whose house it was. Make up your mind.

 

[MGHS]

Victim blaming SMH

I didn't blame the Victim... I pointed out a reality and truth. Please stop making up lies and falsehoods about what I posted.

If you are a person relying on the Police to come and save you then you have watched to many movies. Police response times are between 9-15 min. on a good day..... Pelosi was lucking he was allowed by the Criminal to use his cell phone and he waited until the police arrived before attacking.

You, me and everyone else are responsible for our own safety and protection from the criminal element.

LEO at best are a Deterrent for home invasion or personal assaults but LEO are in reality nothing more than Safety theatre to Criminals who break into houses as they know they can be in and out before LEO will arrive in most incidence. So yes you have to protect you and your family because it's your responsibility.

The Police are tax payer service that is not full proof by any stretch of the measure. They are there to keep Chaos and Anarchy from becoming the Norm there is to few of them to protect 350 million people on a nightly bases.

 

[MGHS]

I thought you figure didn't they didn't know whose house it was, now you say the response time was faster because of whose house it was. Make up your mind.

I said they was making sure they had the right house as a possible reason they where waiting outside. Police do have a history of making mistakes in that regard.

 

[Expect2Win]

So yes you have to protect you and your family because it's your responsibility.

And Pelosi didn't protect himself, even though it is his responsibility. That is the definition of victim blaming.

What is the meaning of victim blaming?

What is Victim Blaming? Victim blaming is a devaluing act that occurs when the victim(s) of a crime or an accident is held responsible — in whole or in part — for the crimes that have been committed against them.

 

[3Rfan]

And Pelosi didn't protect himself, even though it is his responsibility. That is the definition of victim blaming.

What is the meaning of victim blaming?

What is Victim Blaming? Victim blaming is a devaluing act that occurs when the victim(s) of a crime or an accident is held responsible — in whole or in part — for the crimes that have been committed against them.

C'mon Expect all 82 your old men should be able to fight off a great big young man. But he should have been able to even though 3 or 4 cops with guns drawn couldn't protect him from being hit with hammer right in front of them.

 

[MGHS]

And Pelosi didn't protect himself, even though it is his responsibility. That is the definition of victim blaming.

What is the meaning of victim blaming?

What is Victim Blaming? Victim blaming is a devaluing act that occurs when the victim(s) of a crime or an accident is held responsible — in whole or in part — for the crimes that have been committed against them.

I didn't devalue the act at all it was appalling and he has not one shred of responsibility in the actions of the perp who committed the crime. I never once held him responsible for the Criminal Actions of the assailant.

But He has a responsibility for his own personal safety and protection in the world of reality, because the police can't be every where at all times and individually protect people from the acts of violence from others.

Again I did not hold Pelosi responsible for the Criminal actions at all he did not in any way invoke the crime upon himself he is innocent in that regard 100%.

Holding Pelosi accountable for his own safety has nothing to do with the Criminal actions of others. That is just a reality of the fact that others even criminals have free will and no amount of laws or other restrictions will stop people from doing what they want to do.

 

[MGHS]

C'mon Expect all 82 your old men should be able to fight off a great big young man. But he should have been able to even though 3 or 4 cops with guns drawn couldn't protect him from being hit with hammer right in front of them.

That is why guns are part of the 2nd amendment... So 82 year old men don't have to physically attack and fend off a Younger bigger criminal as they wait for the police to arrive and take charge.

 

[Toots_mcgee]

C'mon Expect all 82 your old men should be able to fight off a great big young man. But he should have been able to even though 3 or 4 cops with guns drawn couldn't protect him from being hit with hammer right in front of them.

It doesn’t matter how old a man is, if he has a D by his name, then MG will blame him for his own demise.

 

[3Rfan]

That is why guns are part of the 2nd amendment... So 82 year old men don't have to physically attack and fend off a Younger bigger criminal as they wait for the police to arrive and take charge.

The 2nd amendment says nothing about personal protection, and a "well regulated militia" is not called to arms for their own personal protection.

 

[MGHS]

It doesn’t matter how old a man is, if he has a D by his name, then MG will blame him for his own demise.

That is a lie..... if he was killed by a Criminal that is on the Criminal.

But to actually believe the Police can arrive on time to protect you from a Heck Bent evil doer with the intent to kill is laughable and one should take precautions to protect themselves.

The reality of the world is you can't rely on others or the govt for your personal safety.

In most cases LEO shows up after the crime to start a investigation and then catch the Person who broke the law. Only in the movies do cops arrive in the act of a unexpected violent criminal action..

Pelosi got extremely lucky that this Nutter was hoping to get N. Pelosi and was willing to allow him to call supposedly call her and he called 911 instead..... and guess what that didn't save him from being assaulted because in a flick of a eye he was able to attack him and do harm.

 

[MGHS]

The 2nd amendment says nothing about personal protection, and a "well regulated militia" is not called to arms for their own personal protection.

Don't misrepresent the 2nd amendment.... there are a lot of commas in those statements and parts you left out and a Militia is not a Federal or state organized group.

Each part of the amendment represents different parts of your rights. A well regulated Militia is a group of civilians necessary for a Free state then a comma...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The people are the rank and file legal citizens of America. Clearly the intent of the 2nd amendment is for Freedom of oppression from the govt and for self protection as well that is why the Rank and File Citizen shall not have their right to have Arms/Ammo infringed upon. If you don't have arms you can't have a free state.

In your world then according to your idea of how the Amendments should be interpreted then the Govt cannot curtail, censor anything at all at any level. It clearly states that in the 1A.

 

[Expect2Win]

Who is regulating the well-regulated militia?

 

[3Rfan]

Don't misrepresent the 2nd amendment.... there are a lot of commas in those statements and parts you left out and a Militia is not a Federal or state organized group.

Each part of the amendment represents different parts of your rights. A well regulated Militia is a group of civilians necessary for a Free state then a comma...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The people are the rank and file legal citizens of America. Clearly the intent of the 2nd amendment is for Freedom of oppression from the govt and for self protection as well that is why the Rank and File Citizen shall not have their right to have Arms/Ammo infringed upon. If you don't have arms you can't have a free state.

In your world then according to your idea of how the Amendments should be interpreted then the Govt cannot curtail, censor anything at all at any level. It clearly states that in the 1A.

Show me the words for self protection in there. It is about a well regulated militia and you type all day and not change that.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Don't misrepresent the 2nd amendment.... there are a lot of commas in those statements and parts you left out and a Militia is not a Federal or state organized group.

Each part of the amendment represents different parts of your rights. A well regulated Militia is a group of civilians necessary for a Free state then a comma...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The people are the rank and file legal citizens of America. Clearly the intent of the 2nd amendment is for Freedom of oppression from the govt and for self protection as well that is why the Rank and File Citizen shall not have their right to have Arms/Ammo infringed upon. If you don't have arms you can't have a free state.

In your world then according to your idea of how the Amendments should be interpreted then the Govt cannot curtail, censor anything at all at any level. It clearly states that in the 1A.

Our rights are infringed upon.

You cannot own a fully functioning tank legally.
You can't have a live nuke in your home.

Infringed.

 

[3Rfan]

Well we all know the founding fathers were so smart they knew what kind of crazy weapons would be invented over a few hundred years or so. That makes any possible changes unwarranted and completely ridiculous.

 

[MGHS]

Who is regulating the well-regulated militia?

A militia is a Self Appointed group of able bodied men..... in colonial times well regulated meant well functioning...by no means is the Govt suppose to have control of this.

The James Madison Research Library and Information Center

 

[MGHS]

Show me the words for self protection in there. It is about a well regulated militia and you type all day and not change that.

For the Grammar Nazi I need to explain how reading and understanding the separate phrases in the 2nd Amendment work? Really?

You don't even understand what a Well Regulated Militia means..... your lack of basic knowledge on Civics, how the English Language and words/terms have evolved makes it impossible for you to mount a cognitive discourse on the subject.

You can post your vacuous responses all day long but you are still in error.

 

[MGHS]

Our rights are infringed upon.

You cannot own a fully functioning tank legally.
You can't have a live nuke in your home.

Infringed.

Per the constitution you should be able to..... Govt over reach and rights infringement is nothing new.

And we have been over this before yes you can own a fully functioning tank in the U.S. You can receive a Destructive Device permit/License and operate one even with a operational cannon. I've posted the Links before.

Why do keep making the same erroneous statements.

And Nuke is a simple in principle but a complicated weapon to develop most countries don't have the Technology or resources to do so. So throwing that out is laughable. But the founding fathers if you read their writings on the 2nd amendment very much preferred the Citizens to be armed as opposed to a Federalized Army.

 

[MGHS]

Well we all know the founding fathers were so smart they knew what kind of crazy weapons would be invented over a few hundred years or so. That makes any possible changes unwarranted and completely ridiculous.

Yes the Founding fathers where very enlightened..... how much have you actually read of their writings and who influenced their writings?

The point of the 2nd Amendment was to make sure that private citizens could not be oppressed by a tyrannical Federal govt. and for self defense.

Jefferson was influenced heavily by Cesare Beccaria... his book influence the Bill of Rights heavily. In 1776 the purposed Constitution he wrote "No Freeman Shall ever be debarred the use of arms." Jefferson himself carried pocket pistols and you can see them at Monticello. It is clear Jefferson's intent was for private citizens to own, carry and protect themselves.

James Madison Felt the same.....Just 10 days of he purposed the Bill of Rights to congress Trench Coxe a prominent Federalist and life long Correspondent with both Jefferson and Madison wrote that the 2nd amendment confirmed the right of the People to keep and bear their Private ARMS!! Madison endorsed the widely published article.

The Founding fathers where not oblivious to technology and the idea that weapons would progress, the intent was for the Playing Field to be level. They overtly feared the Govt would use weapons from any era to oppress and control the population.

I find it strange that you appear to hate and fear the insane Govt spending on the Military Industrial Complex, their nefarious and dubious use of those weapons on foreign lands and their people, but then you seem to have no issue with taking away the very rights the Founding fathers gave us to protect ourselves from the very thing the Bloated and Corrupt Federal govt is becoming?

If you want changes then the Republic has to make those changes and the People have to support those changes. The constitution has to be amended.

 

[Toots_mcgee]

It’s a national sickness. A national obsession. We literally should deprogram kids in our schools to stop addressing conflict with violence and especially guns.

 

[MGHS]

So you think you can deprogram Violence out of Human nature? Do tell how we all become Vulcans?

 

[Expect2Win]

Not sending people to therapists who victim blame/shame and make their patients think that anything bad that happens to them is their own fault and if they only had an AR-15 to protect themselves everything would be ok.