HOF nonsense.
- Thread starter Duck_walk
- Start date
The voters sure seem to be moving on Clemens and Bonds. I suspect some are throwing their hands up and saying if I can't tell who used, I might as well still pick the best players.
Bonds for me is a special case because he was the best player on earth for years long before he ever touched the stuff. If Bonds had retired in 1998 he'd have had a heck of a case for the Hall.
Bonds for me is a special case because he was the best player on earth for years long before he ever touched the stuff. If Bonds had retired in 1998 he'd have had a heck of a case for the Hall.
I think that it would be fair to say that both Bonds and Clemens were considered to be aholes by most who dealt with them including the baseball media. I would have to think that this in addition to their 'roid use would be two big strikes against their being voted into the Hall.
Both those dudes were HOFers before using. But the roids effects on both of them were astronomical (no pun intended).
Bonds career high 47 HRs soared to 73.
Clemens threw harder at 41 than he did at 35. It's a shame.
I totally agree Ducky... but I stand by what I said. In addition to becoming performance enhanced, they became total aholes ! I respect the "MLB community" for sticking to their guns and keeping the 'roid heads out of the Hall. Here's hoping as well that Pete Rose is never reinstated.
So because these guys were suspected users they should be shut out? There's no evidence, only speculation. I agree 100% for anyone where proof has been given, keep them out. But for the other guys...sheesh. If that's the stance you're going to take, you might as well leave everyone out from that era since nothing was proven with a lot of those guys.
Dude. Once Pudge went off the juice he shriveled to the size of a jockey. And everyone in baseball knew Bagwell juiced.
People who act like its no big deal have their head in the sand. Bagwells head was the size of a Volkswagen. Bonds hit 46 HRs at age 28. Didn't match it until he reached 35-36 when he suddenly hits 73. It made a huuuuuge difference. Stats during that era are invalid. Cheaters.
I'm not disagreeing with what roids can do and I support keeping the cheaters out. But without any proof, how can you pick and choose who gets in? Bonds has proof against him with the BALCO scandal. Where's the (actual) proof with Pudge and Bagwell? Do you ignore every hitter from the entire era just because the numbers were bonkers during that time?
You do exactly what they have done. Keep them all out. It's too late now. Letting those two in opens up the flood gates.
Frank Thomas got in. Mike Piazza. Craig Biggio. All guys who played during that era and all before this year. Jim Thome and Chipper Jones are eligible next year. Do they both need to stay out?
I hate it, but I think you have to let them in. I was and still am the anti-barry bonds fan, but they didn't wipe out his stats or records from the MLB did they? He was a significant part of baseball history.
On the other hand- and possibly perceived as hypocrisy...I don't want Pete Rose in.
On the other hand- and possibly perceived as hypocrisy...I don't want Pete Rose in.
Bonds's stats in the early 2000s are the best evidence we've ever seen for the power of PEDs. Well, besides 1980's women's track and field.
Pitchers were doing it too. Still gotta put time in the weight room. Still gotta put the bat on the ball. Still gotta put the work in. I think you let them all in. If not, you wind up with what you have now. The "nice guys" that used getting in (Pudge/Bags) and the jerks (Bonds/Clemens) left out, at least for now. The fact the dude was a jerk or not should have zero to do with them getting into the HOF.
Here's an idea I've seen in the past and is kind of intriguing, but what do you all think?
Similar to what Eags said, you let everyone in who you deem "worthy", but then you put their transgressions (if known) on their plaques. So, you'd put a guy like Rose in, but put all the bad crap he did with gambling on his plaque as well. Same with Bonds or Clemens in regards to the juice.
Similar to what Eags said, you let everyone in who you deem "worthy", but then you put their transgressions (if known) on their plaques. So, you'd put a guy like Rose in, but put all the bad crap he did with gambling on his plaque as well. Same with Bonds or Clemens in regards to the juice.
Bingo. There's lots of old time guys in the hall who were known jerks. To penalize Bonds, Clemens and maybe even Schill I think is bogus.
Tell me you've seen the twitter exchange between Schilling and the fake Sidney Ponson account. It is hilarious. Proves that he really is a jerk. Lol.
Agree that there were some scumbags in the past that are in... Ty Cobb comes to mind. If a player is a raging lunatic and goes on a killing spree, that's one thing. Being a butthead to fans and media is something different.
The HOF is already crowded with drug users and PED users. Hell, most of them openly admit to using amphetamines every chance they got....which are known to be more harmful to the body than steroids.
The guys in the 90s did what the league (and fans) allowed them to do. No one said a word until 2001 when the government forced the MLBS hand. And now Selig is in the HOF, when his fingerprints are all over this stuff
The guys in the 90s did what the league (and fans) allowed them to do. No one said a word until 2001 when the government forced the MLBS hand. And now Selig is in the HOF, when his fingerprints are all over this stuff
Putting LaRussa and Selig in is a total endorsement for PED use. Just let them all in.
But please don't act like greenies and coke in the 80's added 27 HRs to anyone's career high or 5 MPH to anyone's fastball.
No, but if it offered no performance enhancement....why did they use it?
Most all of the guys have zero issue saying it would help keep them on the field. So while it might not have boosted them the same, it still has an enhancement. Plus it was an illegal controlled substance...so that alone is enough
Most all of the guys have zero issue saying it would help keep them on the field. So while it might not have boosted them the same, it still has an enhancement. Plus it was an illegal controlled substance...so that alone is enough
