High School Football Stats 101

[Craig Hull]

This post is meant to be educational, not create controversy, point fingers or blame anyone. If anything, the intent is to engage in a conversation to help people who keep stats on Friday nights improve their stat keeping which in this day and age of numbers has become increasingly important. Earlier today I read a few paragraphs from a Southwest Missouri media outlet recap of a game last Friday and the stats quoted in the recap were so inaccurate, it ruined the integrity of the entire story.

With that said, here are a few pointers that are often turned into mistakes (please feel free to add more to this list as it far from all encompassing) I am not the end all, be all of stat keeping, I'm still learning as I see things happen, but I do enjoy a good conversation on keeping stats and records:

1, Any time an offensive team takes a knee, the offense is credited with a team carry for a loss of one yard. Doesn't matter if the quarterback takes a knee in the shotgun (the bane of my existence, why o' why do teams feel the need to do that) however, it is still a team carry for -1 yard loss. Likewise, when a team spikes the ball to stop the clock, it is a team pass for one attempt, incomplete, no yards.

2, In the event of a bad snap over the head of a quarterback, running back, punter, etc., this is a TEAM carry for the loss of the yards on the play. It is not credited to the offensive player who recovers the ball at the spot. If the offensive player recovers the bad snap and picks up positive yards, it is indeed credited to the individual for the positive yards, negative yards is credited as a TEAM carry.

3, Fumble snaps, fumble carries, fumbles period are credited to either the person who fumbled the ball, or the person who either created the fumble with a bad pitch or toss.

4, On plays where there is a penalty (this is where mistakes are often made) the spot of the penalty is the most important component to scoring the play. If the penalty occurs and is marked off from the line of scrimmage or behind the line of scrimmage, then there is no yards/carries/attempts to be credited to the individual. HOWEVER, if on 1st and 10 at the 20, the ball carrier gains five yards, but a holding penalty occurs at the 17, the ball carrier is credited for a carry for 3 yards, the team is penalized 10 yards from the spot of the foul at the 17, moving the ball back to the 27 making it 1st and 17 at the 27. If the penalty was three yards behind the line of scrimmage, the team is penalized 13 yards and it is 1st and 23 at the 33.
SCOREKEEPERS -- when in doubt, write down or note the spot of the foul and also where they mark it off from. Often times in the confusion of the play and waiting for the official to announce it, scorekeepers will miss where they marked the ball and/or where they walked the penalty from. Two weeks ago when Hillcrest played at Carl Junction, I was lost on an illegal forward pass penalty (it had been so long since I was scoring a game with an illegal forward pass called I forgot the proper scoring on it) as it turns out, it is a 10 yard penalty from the spot of the foul, which in this case was marked one yard past the line of scrimmage, the quarterback GETS a one yard carry on the play, then the team is penalized 10 yards from the spot and the loss of down.

5, In high school scoring, return yards are for fumble returns, interception returns and punt returns. Kickoff return yardage is not kept in high school stats. Teams may keep it and use it, but it is not part of an official high school box score. College and pros do keep kickoff return yards as a team stat.

6, PAT plays do not count toward team or individual stats INCLUDING PENALTIES unless the penalty is assessed on the kickoff after the PAT.

7, The hitch and pitch is a play that gives scorekeepers nightmares ... the receiver who caught the pass gets credited for the reception and the yards to the spot of the catch, the pitch man gets credit for receiving yards from the spot of the initial catch until he is tackled or end zone, but does not get credit for a reception (so in other words it is possible for an offensive player to have 0 receptions and 32 yards receiving) while the quarterback gets the attempt, the completion and all the yards.

Here is an example of what a high school box score should look like (the only difference is I have added the scoring drive info at the end of each touchdown with number of plays, yards the drive covered and time of possession)

Seneca, 56-7
At Bulldog Stadium
Seneca 7 28 7 14 – 56
Carl Junction 0 7 0 0 – 7
First Quarter
Sen–Kaden Clouse 22 run (Drew Sherwood kick), 3:57 (6 plays, 96 yards, 2:56 TOP)
Second Quarter
Sen–Roman Miller 3 run (kick failed), 11:24 (7 plays, 87 yards, 2:17 TOP)
Sen–Brodie Probert 3 run (Clouse run), 9:48 (1 play, 3 yards, :05 TOP)
Sen–Hagan Ginger 39 pass from Clouse (Sherwood kick), 6:21 (4 plays, 47 yards, 2:25)
Sen–Probert 51 run (Sherwood kick), 2:41 (4 plays, 70 yards, :59 TOP)
CJ–Jaxton Wobken 5 pass from Mason Gilbert (Bryant Hanks kick), :25 (6 plays, 26 yards, :45 TOP)
Third Quarter
Sen–Ginger 31 pass from Clouse (Sherwood kick), 10:14 (4 plays, 49 yards, 1:46 TOP)
Fourth Quarter
Sen–Probert 65 run (Sherwood kick), 11:45 (1 play, 65 yards, :15 TOP)
Sen–Brant Laughlin 14 run (Sherwood kick), 2:40 (4 plays, 41 yards, 3:03 TOP)
TEAM STATISTICS
Sen CJ
First downs 17 13
Rushes-yards 30-409 30-100
Passes 2-6-1 13-28-2
Passing yards 70 106
Return yards 42 23
Punts-avg. 0-0 4-36.3
Fumbles-lost 2-0 0-0
Penalties-yards 6-55 3-30
INDIVIDUAL STATISTICS
RUSHING – Seneca, Miller 10-58, Clouse 8-116, Probert 4-126, Tyrone Harris 3-86, Laughlin 3-32, Silas Ball 1-9, team 1-(-18); Carl Junction, Marcus Lopez-Durman 15-64, K.J. Harms 4-25, Tony Stewart 4-16, Tadem Jones 2-4, Burke Diskin 4-(-3), Gilbert 1-(-6).
PASSING – Seneca, Clouse 2-6-1-70, Probert 0-0-0-0; Carl Junction, Gilbert 12-27-2-101, Diskin 1-1-0-5.
RECEIVING – Seneca, Ginger 2-70; Carl Junction, Wobken 4-34, Maxwell Goddard 3-30, Jett Mills 1-13, Braxton Jones 1-7, Aidan Streight 1-7, Tony Stewart 1-6, T.Jones 1-4, Hanks 1-5.

 

[kaching]

I thought on the hitch and pitch the player that receives the pitch and gets say 20 yards goes as rushing yards and not a carry.

 

[kaching]

second question - when a team gets a touchdown shouldn’t that count also as a first down?

 

[Craig Hull]

Yes … a team does get a credited for a first down on a touchdown when the play would have been first down had the player been tackled short of the goal line.

Examples
3rd and 7 at the 35 … running back scores from 35 yards out, team is credited with a first down also.

If it’s a goal to go situation, no first down credited on a touchdown.

So if it’s 1st and 10 at the 11, and the back scores from the 11, yes credit the team with a first down. The key to this stat is if the ball carrier would have made a first down on the touchdown run, then yes credit the team with a first down.

 

[Craig Hull]

I thought on the hitch and pitch the player that receives the pitch and gets say 20 yards goes as rushing yards and not a carry.

By definition, when the ball crosses the line of scrimmage by throw, the yards are credited as passing yards, whereas when the ball crosses the line of scrimmage by run, it is rushing yards.

Similar to an option pitch, quarterback reads option down the line turns up field and picks up 10 yards, late pitch to the running back who maintained correlation … the quarterback gets the rush attempt and to the spot of the pitch, the running back gets rushing yards from the spot of the pitch to either where he is tackled or touchdown, but does not get credit for a rushing attempt, just the yards.

Reminds me of a play East Newton ran during the Larry Bunn administration. Coach Bunn sent me a VHS tape (I still have it) of his best plays.

Everyone knows Bunn ran the hitch and pitch as a regular part of his play calls and what everyone else called trick plays were his base plays.

I had never seen it before until it was on this highlight video… but he had a hitch and pitch play where the tight end caught the pass in the middle of the field (7 yards downfield) turned like a quarterback running the option and then pitched it to running back coming out of the backfield, who had another running back maintaining pitch correlation with him.

It was literally a hitch and pitch option play. And the crazy part about it was… I was told he had a play drawn up where not only could the receiver and the running back run the option down the field after the catch, but the running back had a pitch man also and the pitch man actually had another running back in pitch correlation.

Let’s just say I’m glad I never had to cover/score a game with that play because I’m not sure I would ever get it right without video replay.

 

[hangmanbobbyjaggers]

second question - when a team gets a touchdown shouldn’t that count also as a first down?

How is it a 1st down?

 

[BearsCountry]

My biggest pet peeve is how some report scores.

It should be:
MMA 77, Webb City 14

It drives me nuts to see:
Webb City 14, MMA 77

 

[Craig Hull]

My biggest pet peeve is how some report scores.

It should be:
MMA 77, Webb City 14

It drives me nuts to see:
Webb City 14, MMA 77

The worst offenders are school districts who have non-sports people posting sports information or sports results on social media.

Carl Junction is the absolute worst when it comes to social media and posting scores and information. Scores are always ass-backwards and then my second pet peeve ... Something has been canceled and rescheduled for Tuesday at 4:30 p.m.

ARGH!!! If something is canceled, it means it won't be rescheduled or made up/postponed means it will be rescheduled and made up.

The CJ football/basketball broadcast team, people who "should" know better or at least you think they would, are bad about this also. They repeat scores backwards ... Soccer team lost today 2-4. Makes me cringe every time they do it and its been this way for years.

 

[J. Kane]

Soccer team lost today 2-4. Makes me cringe every time they do it and its been this way for years.

 

[86THS]

Quarterback is sacked for a 7 yd loss: Listed a rushing attempt with a -7?

 

[Craig Hull]

Quarterback is sacked for a 7 yd loss: Listed a rushing attempt with a -7?

Correct ... only the NFL counts sacks as yards lost toward passing yards. Strange as it may seem, that's how they do it.

College and high school sacks are rush attempts and yards lost.

True story ... one year I was covering CJ while working at the Joplin Globe. I forgot who the opponent was but it was a Big 8 school. The following week when coaches faxed/emailed stats to the newspaper for the weekly stat leaders package we ran, this school mentioned an individual had recorded seven quarterback sacks.

The sports editor asked me why I failed to mention this in the story, a quarterback sacked seven times in one game by one defensive player.

I went back and checked my play by play ... sure enough, the CJ quarterback had been tackled for loss seven times, but the plays were option keepers, not passing plays. A quarterback sack is a tackle for loss on a passing play, not a running play. As a scorekeeper, if a quarterback drops back to pass and is tackled for a loss, that's a sack. If he starts to scramble after dropping back to pass and is tackled for a loss, also a sack.

Designed quarterback draw plays and the quarterback is tackled for loss ... not a sack.

 

[TadQueasy]

Appreciate all the info Craig. Interesting stuff.

 

[trumanbulldog42]

Always good stuff! Tried to have Mrs. Bulldog read this. Fell asleep after number 1. She can't hang

 

[blindedbythelight]

Correct ... only the NFL counts sacks as yards lost toward passing yards. Strange as it may seem, that's how they do it.

College and high school sacks are rush attempts and yards lost.

True story ... one year I was covering CJ while working at the Joplin Globe. I forgot who the opponent was but it was a Big 8 school. The following week when coaches faxed/emailed stats to the newspaper for the weekly stat leaders package we ran, this school mentioned an individual had recorded seven quarterback sacks.

The sports editor asked me why I failed to mention this in the story, a quarterback sacked seven times in one game by one defensive player.

I went back and checked my play by play ... sure enough, the CJ quarterback had been tackled for loss seven times, but the plays were option keepers, not passing plays. A quarterback sack is a tackle for loss on a passing play, not a running play. As a scorekeeper, if a quarterback drops back to pass and is tackled for a loss, that's a sack. If he starts to scramble after dropping back to pass and is tackled for a loss, also a sack.

Designed quarterback draw plays and the quarterback is tackled for loss ... not a sack.

Is their some official document signed on to by MSHSAA that codifies all of this stuff,,,,or is it just generally accepted practices??

 

[Craig Hull]

Is their some official document signed on to by MSHSAA that codifies all of this stuff,,,,or is it just generally accepted practices??

I cannot speak for MSHSAA …I usually read the NFHS Statisticians Manual before the season to check for any changes. I did a search for it online and downloaded it and printed it for free:

https://www.nfhs.org/media/865876/stat_manual_2003.pdf

The other helpful thing I have done over the years is make friends with sports information staff at Pitt State and Missouri Southern which has allowed me to ask them how to score difficult plays. Have also worked as a spotter at many MIAA games usually spotting defensive plays for the stat crew or PA.

A group of us provided the official stats crew for the NJCAA Midwest Bowl Classic in Miami, Oklahoma from 2017-2020.

The same crew also handled stats for the NJCAA National Football Championship at Pitt State in 2018 and 2019. It’s amazing how much you learn about stating a football game from being in a college football press box.

We had a five-man crew with one person inputting the commands in the electronic software, one person responsible for spotting the ball carrier, two responsible for spotting the tackle and one spotter who’s job was to report participation (subs coming in to the game). In the event of an interception or fumble recovery the two defensive spotters knew one had to spot the location of the interception or fumble recovery while the other had to spot the tackle made by the offensive player if it was not returned for a score. One member of the crew was on a headset with CBS Sports feeding the truck information for the TV graphics, the first down line and anything the broadcaster spotters missed.

 

[carthagefan2006]

I purely track games solo and only as a hobby so errors are to be expected here and there, but I do the best that I can. As far as high school sports go, soccer is probably the most challenging to track. Trying to spot the goalscorer in a fast-paced game from 100 yards away is challenging much less who made the assist. It's really difficult to track down information on any of the teams purely as a fan when you don't have any of the information. I have to go to school websites, Maxpreps or other sources sometimes because a handful of schools don't even provide simple paper rosters anymore. I kept scoring tallies on a basketball game in Carl Junction a few years ago only to find out later that the jersey numbers listed on the roster that I found in the depths of the internet were completely incorrect. Never understood that in basketball when the math checks out perfectly: 36 possible jersey numbers divided by 3 teams (9th/JV/V) equals 12 kids per roster. Pittsburg Colgan is the only team I've ever seen though that's smart enough to figure that out.

 

[cardsbeatwriter]

Any suggestions on apps? DigitalScout was great but it went away a few years ago. There was a lot of hype about a new product called PressBox Stats. I purchased it and it crashed in the 4th quarter of our first game and I lost everything. It may be a good product eventually but I could not trust it. Back to using itouchdown. Do you know of any other apps on the market ?

 

[Veer2Eternity]

I purely track games solo and only as a hobby so errors are to be expected here and there, but I do the best that I can. As far as high school sports go, soccer is probably the most challenging to track. Trying to spot the goalscorer in a fast-paced game from 100 yards away is challenging much less who made the assist. It's really difficult to track down information on any of the teams purely as a fan when you don't have any of the information. I have to go to school websites, Maxpreps or other sources sometimes because a handful of schools don't even provide simple paper rosters anymore. I kept scoring tallies on a basketball game in Carl Junction a few years ago only to find out later that the jersey numbers listed on the roster that I found in the depths of the internet were completely incorrect. Never understood that in basketball when the math checks out perfectly: 36 possible jersey numbers divided by 3 teams (9th/JV/V) equals 12 kids per roster. Pittsburg Colgan is the only team I've ever seen though that's smart enough to figure that out.

Countries that are good at soccer are good at one other thing:


Losing wars.

 

[sw5890]

My biggest pet peeve is how some report scores.

It should be:
MMA 77, Webb City 14

It drives me nuts to see:
Webb City 14, MMA 77

I think a lot of people approach it as us/them so they put their teams score first not the winning teams score. Even MSHSAA website does this. It's one of those things that used to be a standard but has been gradually lost. Kind of like how I see a lot of young people writing out money amounts now like 27$. Just makes me cringe.

The worst offenders are school districts who have non-sports people posting sports information or sports results on social media.

Carl Junction is the absolute worst when it comes to social media and posting scores and information. Scores are always ass-backwards and then my second pet peeve ... Something has been canceled and rescheduled for Tuesday at 4:30 p.m.

ARGH!!! If something is canceled, it means it won't be rescheduled or made up/postponed means it will be rescheduled and made up.

The CJ football/basketball broadcast team, people who "should" know better or at least you think they would, are bad about this also. They repeat scores backwards ... Soccer team lost today 2-4. Makes me cringe every time they do it and its been this way for years.

The Carthage radio used to report team records as if they were a score. So they would say the tigers are now 5 to 2 on the season instead of 5 and 2.

 

[86THS]

It has to be a cardinal sin among hard-core statisticians to rely on the stadium PA guy for a tackle number, yardage gain or ball spot, am I correct? There are times in a hurry up offense that if the PA person says the ball is spotted at the 25, I'll take their word for it and make sure I have the other facts correct. Other times I'm wondering, what game are they watching/calling?

 

[Craig Hull]

It has to be a cardinal sin among hard-core statisticians to rely on the stadium PA guy for a tackle number, yardage gain or ball spot, am I correct? There are times in a hurry up offense that if the PA person says the ball is spotted at the 25, I'll take their word for it and make sure I have the other facts correct. Other times I'm wondering, what game are they watching/calling?

I absolutely, positively DO NOT use the PA, scoreboard, radio announcers or broadcasters for the spot of the ball purposes. I cannot tell you how many times they are either a yard off, or misidentify the yard line all together (magically the 35 becomes the 25).

Often times I have heard PA, scoreboard, radio announcers or broadcasters say the ball is on the 34 yard line, when in fact its in between the 34 and 33, which means the ball is across the 34 it goes to the next yard line which is the 33.

 

[BearsCountry]

Back when I played there was a school that the PA announcer would just announce who made the tackle was whatever number he could see. So I figured this out and would just be on the outside of the pile but face my jersey number to the press box. Name was called all night long lol

 

[trumanbulldog42]

Back when I played there was a school that the PA announcer would just announce who made the tackle was whatever number he could see. So I figured this out and would just be on the outside of the pile but face my jersey number to the press box. Name was called all night long lol

The ol late jump on the pile trick. Classic!

 

[Craig Hull]

Any suggestions on apps? DigitalScout was great but it went away a few years ago. There was a lot of hype about a new product called PressBox Stats. I purchased it and it crashed in the 4th quarter of our first game and I lost everything. It may be a good product eventually but I could not trust it. Back to using itouchdown. Do you know of any other apps on the market ?

I'm biased towards Dak Stats by Daktronics. The NAIA uses it and it has features to allow for live stats on websites. PrestoSports has a version that is similar to the old Stat Crew which what Pitt State and Southern used for years.

Pitt and Southern are now they are using something called LiveStats provided by Genius Sports.

Most college sports information directors provide a postgame stats package, we called them the game book, to the media following a game.

When my kids played youth football all the way through junior high, I ran the camera and did stats off the video then had it entered into the software to produce a game book for each game. I printed those out and gave them to the coaches the following week and end of the year stats were easy as well.

Dakstats Football

Make football stat taking simple with DakStats sports software.

www.daktronics.com

 

[cardsbeatwriter]

I absolutely, positively DO NOT use the PA, scoreboard, radio announcers or broadcasters for the spot of the ball purposes. I cannot tell you how many times they are either a yard off, or misidentify the yard line all together (magically the 35 becomes the 25).

Often times I have heard PA, scoreboard, radio announcers or broadcasters say the ball is on the 34 yard line, when in fact its in between the 34 and 33, which means the ball is across the 34 it goes to the next yard line which is the 33.

I have always been under the impression you didnt round up. In your illustration the 33 has not been gained so the official los is the 34.

I'm biased towards Dak Stats by Daktronics. I don't know if they have an app or not, I'm familiar with the software for use on laptops and I know Pitt and Southern both use it. Most college sports information directors provide a postgame stats package, we called them the game book, to the media following a game. When my kids played youth football all the way through junior high, I ran the camera and did stats off the video then had it entered into the software to produce a game book for each game. I printed those out and gave them to the coaches the following week and end of the year stats were easy as well.

Dakstats Football

Make football stat taking simple with DakStats sports software.

www.daktronics.com

Daktronics is obviously the standard. Worked around college for a minute and the info available was great. Mostly useless as a journalist, but a fun read for nerds like me.
I think you will find most HS’s do not have the resources for that or room in their 60sqft press boxes. We have to find simple solutions while striving for the same level and accuracy. Most are a one man show; sometimes a two man team.

 

[Craig Hull]

I have always been under the impression you didnt round up. In your illustration the 33 has not been gained so the official los is the 34.

Daktronics is obviously the standard. Worked around college for a minute and the info available was great. Mostly useless as a journalist, but a fun read for nerds like me.
I think you will find most HS’s do not have the resources for that or room in their 60sqft press boxes. We have to find simple solutions while striving for the same level and accuracy. Most are a one man show; sometimes a two man team.

The line of scrimmage will be between the 34 and 33, but for a first down, the team will need to achieve the 23 yard line. If on fourth and short at the 24, they fail to get the first down, the ball is then 1st and 10 at the 24 for the opposing team. If you spot it at the 34, 24 should have been the first down.

The key to the spot is if the ball is on or touching the yard line, if it is that's self explanatory, its on that yard line. If it's between the two, the yard line to achieve is the next yard going forward. Which is why if the ball is across the 34, its 1st and 10 at the 33.

 

[BoosterBosko]

Just to clarify for those reading this. The use of "PA" on this thread does NOT refer to Pennsylvania. In case anyone was confused. Carry on.

 

[carthagefan2006]

Just to clarify for those reading this. The use of "PA" on this thread does NOT refer to Pennsylvania. In case anyone was confused. Carry on.

Yeah, right. Next thing you're gonna tell me is that "subvarsity" means any non-varsity competition instead of that I can play my players as a substitute as long as they don't start on varsity.

 

[BoosterBosko]

Yeah, right. Next thing you're gonna tell me is that "subvarsity" means any non-varsity competition instead of that I can play my players as a substitute as long as they don't start on varsity.

Its only breaking the rules when you get caught!

 

[hangmanbobbyjaggers]

Its only breaking the rules when you get caught!

Just change your name and number, remember to cover all body markings and go out and play!

 

[BoosterBosko]

Just change your name and number, remember to cover all body markings and go out and play!

A few things to allegedly keep in mind when playing an ineligible player.

Change;
1) The jersey number
2) Name on the program
3) Height on the program
4) Weight on the program
5) DO cover up any tattoos, birth marks, and/or scars
6) If the athlete is willing; cut or shave head and/or facial hair
7) Switch cleats with another player

Again, this is all alleged

 

[mizzoufan_1]

I wish this thread had been posted before the High School season started. It would have helped me for the TV stats I was doing for KMIZ/KZOU this season.