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GOP split

Well it depends on the regulation? What exactly are you speaking to? If we are talking background checks I have nothing against that, I know those on the right will say a Criminal doesn't need a background check...and if that is true then any other citizen should be able to find a gun.
I had a friend tell me that once that he could get a gun in less than a day like a criminal, I challenged him to do it...three years later I am still waiting for him to show me how criminals do it...

I am speaking about many on the right who, once any background check or limitation of their ability to buy a 300 round drum magazine is even proposed, go into doomsday mode, much to the satisfaction of the gun and ammo companies who make bank off of their fears every single time.
 
When it comes to not infringing it is Black and White.....meaning no Limits, diminish, weaken, impair, erode. Any Gun Law aka regulation does that. Back Ground Checks. Registration, Red Flag laws, the effort to try and Ban certain types of Fire Arms and or magazine capacity etc. They all infringe on the Right to bear Arms. A fundamental right afforded by the Bill of Rights.

And yes it's a slippery slope.....as you can see that as of now their are around 20,000 laws regulating Guns.....Fudging 20,000!!!

Look at the Crap you have to go through in NJ and they out right banned AR-15 defensive weapons.


And then the Local Police in that state basically make it impossible to own a firearm or to obtain one. That is why we fight so hard to stop any and every gun law or regulation.

There are not 20,000 laws regulating guns. It's closer to 300 relevant laws.

Your rights are not infringed if you can't buy a gatling gun, fully auto AK-47, etc. They are not infringed if you have to wait a few days before your purchase can go through. There is nothing in the Constitution that says firearms can't be regulated, nor anything specifying which particular arms people can bear, just that the ability to keep and bear arms (and this is non-specific) shall not be infringed (violated/broken).

Can we also talk about the militia clause that everyone just ignores? It literally says the words "well-regulated" in it. Obviously, these words modify "militia," but there is not clue as to what exactly is "well-regulated" about the militia nor what "well-regulated" even means in the context of the amendment. Does it mean well-trained with their firearms? Does it mean everyone who owns a gun must be well-trained because they may have to serve in a militia? The Supreme Court has found that that it refers not to formally organized state or federal militias, but to the pool of able-bodied men who were available for conscription, which seems to support the relatively new (2008) individual rights theory of the 2nd. In this context, does that mean that before age 18 and after age 35 (or a woman), you can't own a firearm? Obviously that isn't how it is enforced now, but room is there in the wording of the 2nd Amendment for that in light of the aforementioned interpretation.

And the fact that the founders likely never anticipated the advent of the types of firearms we have now. What they did do is use open language (like most of the Constitution) so that the Article 1 people (Congress) can "make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers." The courts have never, not even once, found that a single one of our rights as defined in the Bill of Rights is unrestricted, nor were they ever intended to be. If you could point specifically to the part of the Constitution or any court ruling ever that says that any rights are unrestricted in scope, then I will admit defeat.

Again, just so you're aware, the slippery slope is a logical fallacy, not a valid argument. It requires a chain of suppositions, generalizations, and speculation that are beyond the scope of logic.
 
I am speaking about many on the right who, once any background check or limitation of their ability to buy a 300 round drum magazine is even proposed, go into doomsday mode, much to the satisfaction of the gun and ammo companies who make bank off of their fears every single time.
Oh misunderstood... I hate the panic buying as well. But a person should not have a limitation on a 300 round drum magazine. The 2nd amendment makes that pretty clear. And nothing should infringe on the ability of a citizen from obtaining a weapon for personal protection and it's pretty clear that Some places clearly do that.

Back Ground Checks are useless in most cases and are again just Safety Theater.....research is mixed on how effective they are.

It's not complicated to see that the Anti-gun movements tactics and strategy is to end around the 2nd amendment by making Owning a gun incredibly costly, Filled with Red tape and adding cumbersome regulations that are ultra restrictive. Making it technically legal to own a gun but dang near impossible. See the State of NJ as exhibit A, Wash. DC Exhibit B etc.

That is why outside of actually making it legal to divulge the mental status of Dangerous and motivated individuals all the 20,000 plus gun laws are a Paper tiger to sooth the emotional state of the anti-gun establishment.

We've already seen that AR-15 are not a danger and kill less than knives, fist and clubs. We can easily see that 11-13K deaths a year from guns is a minimal threat or risk. And we Know that 500K-3 million people use Guns in a defensive act per the CDC.

So if logic dictates that Guns save more lives and property my a wide margin than they kill..... so why should any free citizen want to Restrict the ownership of Arms?? And why should a free citizen swallow anymore Gun Laws. If 20,000 can't fix the issue then another one won't help.

It's pretty clear that the Point isn't to save lives the point is to restrict Gun ownership and to eventually disarm the populace in small increments.


 
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According to this.... it's 20,000 but I guess the Press and the Fact checkers use slight of hand by saying Relevant.....But dang 300 laws is overly oppressive without a doubt. And 100% a infringement.

It's also BS and Bunk to say local laws don't matter because the Police clearly enforce those laws and local Prosecutors do prosecute based on local laws all the time and people are punished based on those laws. So that article and the U.S. News article etc. are 100% propaganda and 100% meant to sway public opinion in Favor of More laws and more Restrictions. And those articles are meant to cast doubt and legitimacy onto Gun Rights organizations.

And Clearly you don't give the Founding fathers enough credit. You don't think they understood that Arms technology would progress! That didn't factor into the 2nd amendment. It was written with the term ARMS so that no matter the progression of ARMS technology that the free citizen could and should obtain that Weaponry to protect one's Liberty and one's Property from other individuals and the Government.

Clearly not allowing a Person to Own a Full Auto Machine gun, Gatling Gun etc. is 100% infringement of mine or anyone else's right. Just because you don't think it is a infringement means you are wrong. Because those weapons are ARMS and it was a pretty clear Directive that Bearing Arms by the PEOPLE shall not be infringed.


But thank Goodness you can Own Full Automatic Weapons.....



So yes you can own a Full Automatic weapon or a Gatling Gun, heck you can even own a Tank if you have a Federal Destructive Device Permit and the Money to do so.

I'm not against some Regulations, heck I'm not even against basic back ground Checks.....we have them. But whether it's 20K or 300 we have enough laws now. Banning Defensive weapons like AR-15 or High Capacity Mags is infringement plane and simple. And the Red Tape BS in places like Calif., Chicago, NJ, Wash. DC is clearly unconstitutional.


Also it's pretty clear that the 2nd Amendment is divided into to parts.....the Well regulated Militia Clause is clearly referencing anyone and everyone having the right to form a Militia outside that of the Gov. sanctioned Military, clearly as a defense against Gov. forces that could enslave the populace. Meaning me, you and anyone else could form one with out gov. restrictions or regulation.

Then you have the second part the Right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

I don't think it hard to comprehend that the PEOPLE is everyone and anyone can bear arms and the gov. shall not infringe on those rights. You don't have to be part of a Militia to own Arms...... Two separate portions of the Amendment.

But if Nutter anti-gunners want to play that game I guess all gun owners could just say we are all part of a Militia, that can't be regulated or restricted or infringed upon.

The 2nd Amendment is the FLY in the ointment of getting Rid of Guns or making owning them solely the possession of the Elite's. Hence all the Regulation, Restrictions and laws in a effort to end around the 2nd amendment.
 
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Well it depends on the regulation? What exactly are you speaking to? If we are talking background checks I have nothing against that, I know those on the right will say a Criminal doesn't need a background check...and if that is true then any other citizen should be able to find a gun.
I had a friend tell me that once that he could get a gun in less than a day like a criminal, I challenged him to do it...three years later I am still waiting for him to show me how criminals do it...

What was the jist of obtaining the gun...cause you can go to Bass Pro and Most gun shops and get a gun in a few hours at most depending on how fast the computers are working. I got my last gun in 1hour and 15min at BP last June. M&P S&W 9mm.

Are you talking about a illegal gun? To get a illegal gun which at one time was probably bought legally then stolen, or changed hands multiple times , well you'd need to know some one from that criminal group or subset to get one. And even if you did know someone from the Trailer park who had one they might not sale it to you because......you know your not part of that group.

Now if you just want a off the Books gun not registered.....none of my guns are at all. Then I could get you a truck load. You do not have to register fire arms in Missouri.....All my guns are basically untraceable as they should be the Gov. has Zero business knowing what I own or don't own per the 2nd amendment. There is a reason that Federal Law makes it illegal to have a National Gun Registry. States do but that should be thrown out as well.

But if you decide to go Rogue just go buy a unregistered gun from anyone anywhere, file off any markings and Hit nutter town.

Not sure why your friend had such a hard time getting a gun? If you know people in the gun circles guns change hands all the time.
 
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According to this.... it's 20,000 but I guess the Press and the Fact checkers use slight of hand by saying Relevant.....But dang 300 laws is overly oppressive without a doubt. And 100% a infringement.

It's also BS and Bunk to say local laws don't matter because the Police clearly enforce those laws and local Prosecutors do prosecute based on local laws all the time and people are punished based on those laws. So that article and the U.S. News article etc. are 100% propaganda and 100% meant to sway public opinion in Favor of More laws and more Restrictions. And those articles are meant to cast doubt and legitimacy onto Gun Rights organizations.

And Clearly you don't give the Founding fathers enough credit. You don't think they understood that Arms technology would progress! That didn't factor into the 2nd amendment. It was written with the term ARMS so that no matter the progression of ARMS technology that the free citizen could and should obtain that Weaponry to protect one's Liberty and one's Property from other individuals and the Government.

Clearly not allowing a Person to Own a Full Auto Machine gun, Gatling Gun etc. is 100% infringement of mine or anyone else's right. Just because you don't think it is a infringement means you are wrong. Because those weapons are ARMS and it was a pretty clear Directive that Bearing Arms by the PEOPLE shall not be infringed.


But thank Goodness you can Own Full Automatic Weapons.....



So yes you can own a Full Automatic weapon or a Gatling Gun, heck you can even own a Tank if you have a Federal Destructive Device Permit and the Money to do so.

I'm not against some Regulations, heck I'm not even against basic back ground Checks.....we have them. But whether it's 20K or 300 we have enough laws now. Banning Defensive weapons like AR-15 or High Capacity Mags is infringement plane and simple. And the Red Tape BS in places like Calif., Chicago, NJ, Wash. DC is clearly unconstitutional.


Also it's pretty clear that the 2nd Amendment is divided into to parts.....the Well regulated Militia Clause is clearly referencing anyone and everyone having the right to form a Militia outside that of the Gov. sanctioned Military, clearly as a defense against Gov. forces that could enslave the populace. Meaning me, you and anyone else could form one with out gov. restrictions or regulation.

Then you have the second part the Right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

I don't think it hard to comprehend that the PEOPLE is everyone and anyone can bear arms and the gov. shall not infringe on those rights. You don't have to be part of a Militia to own Arms...... Two separate portions of the Amendment.

But if Nutter anti-gunners want to play that game I guess all gun owners could just say we are all part of a Militia, that can't be regulated or restricted or infringed upon.

The 2nd Amendment is the FLY in the ointment of getting Rid of Guns or making owning them solely the possession of the Elite's. Hence all the Regulation, Restrictions and laws in a effort to end around the 2nd amendment.
I'm an idiot. Guess the "post reply" button was too much for me to resist before actually writing something.
 
What was the jist of obtaining the gun...cause you can go to Bass Pro and Most gun shops and get a gun in a few hours at most depending on how fast the computers are working. I got my last gun in 1hour and 15min at BP last June. M&P S&W 9mm.

Are you talking about a illegal gun? To get a illegal gun which at one time was probably bought legally then stolen, or changed hands multiple times , well you'd need to know some one from that criminal group or subset to get one. And even if you did know someone from the Trailer park who had one they might not sale it to you because......you know your not part of that group.

Now if you just want a off the Books gun not registered.....none of my guns are at all. Then I could get you a truck load. You do not have to register fire arms in Missouri.....All my guns are basically untraceable as they should be the Gov. has Zero business knowing what I own or don't own per the 2nd amendment. There is a reason that Federal Law makes it illegal to have a National Gun Registry. States do but that should be thrown out as well.

But if you decide to go Rogue just go buy a unregistered gun from anyone anywhere, file off any markings and Hit nutter town.

Not sure why your friend had such a hard time getting a gun? If you know people in the gun circles guns change hands all the time.

All you have to do to get a gun is find someone willing to do a private sale. No background check necessary. In fact, some people whose businesses are banned from selling firearms by the ATF get around it this way.
 
I was trying to say it in a more polite way. You just put it out there.
 

According to this.... it's 20,000 but I guess the Press and the Fact checkers use slight of hand by saying Relevant.....But dang 300 laws is overly oppressive without a doubt. And 100% a infringement.

It's also BS and Bunk to say local laws don't matter because the Police clearly enforce those laws and local Prosecutors do prosecute based on local laws all the time and people are punished based on those laws. So that article and the U.S. News article etc. are 100% propaganda and 100% meant to sway public opinion in Favor of More laws and more Restrictions. And those articles are meant to cast doubt and legitimacy onto Gun Rights organizations.

And Clearly you don't give the Founding fathers enough credit. You don't think they understood that Arms technology would progress! That didn't factor into the 2nd amendment. It was written with the term ARMS so that no matter the progression of ARMS technology that the free citizen could and should obtain that Weaponry to protect one's Liberty and one's Property from other individuals and the Government.

Clearly not allowing a Person to Own a Full Auto Machine gun, Gatling Gun etc. is 100% infringement of mine or anyone else's right. Just because you don't think it is a infringement means you are wrong. Because those weapons are ARMS and it was a pretty clear Directive that Bearing Arms by the PEOPLE shall not be infringed.


But thank Goodness you can Own Full Automatic Weapons.....



So yes you can own a Full Automatic weapon or a Gatling Gun, heck you can even own a Tank if you have a Federal Destructive Device Permit and the Money to do so.

I'm not against some Regulations, heck I'm not even against basic back ground Checks.....we have them. But whether it's 20K or 300 we have enough laws now. Banning Defensive weapons like AR-15 or High Capacity Mags is infringement plane and simple. And the Red Tape BS in places like Calif., Chicago, NJ, Wash. DC is clearly unconstitutional.


Also it's pretty clear that the 2nd Amendment is divided into to parts.....the Well regulated Militia Clause is clearly referencing anyone and everyone having the right to form a Militia outside that of the Gov. sanctioned Military, clearly as a defense against Gov. forces that could enslave the populace. Meaning me, you and anyone else could form one with out gov. restrictions or regulation.

Then you have the second part the Right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

I don't think it hard to comprehend that the PEOPLE is everyone and anyone can bear arms and the gov. shall not infringe on those rights. You don't have to be part of a Militia to own Arms...... Two separate portions of the Amendment.

But if Nutter anti-gunners want to play that game I guess all gun owners could just say we are all part of a Militia, that can't be regulated or restricted or infringed upon.

The 2nd Amendment is the FLY in the ointment of getting Rid of Guns or making owning them solely the possession of the Elite's. Hence all the Regulation, Restrictions and laws in a effort to end around the 2nd amendment.
I bet you're a blast at BBQ's
 
Well loved and respected....cause I can Do up a Beef Brisket and Pork Shoulder like nobodies business. Add in some of my Home Made Beer and it's a good time.
 
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Well loved and respected....cause I can Do up a Beef Brisket and Pork Shoulder like nobodies business. Add in some of my Home Made Beer and it's a good time.

You ever been up to the American Royal World Series BBQ in KC. it has been about 20 years but we use to go compete up there when I was in the BBQ business.
Talk about a good time!! Then you can see how your Brisket and Shoulder stack up.
 
You ever been up to the American Royal World Series BBQ in KC. it has been about 20 years but we use to go compete up there when I was in the BBQ business.
Talk about a good time!! Then you can see how your Brisket and Shoulder stack up.
No but I've always wanted to go....I watch a ton of those BQ shows on Food Network and other Channels.....Pitmasters/PitWars love Myran Mixon in those shows. Even watched Moonshiners Smoke Ring this year it was good.....Heard Netflix has some good BQ shows on now as well. Might check them out.

And one thing I know from following those shows.....I should stay in my lane. The amount of work and effort they put into those competitions is way beyond what I want to do. Besides one reason my Brisket is good....as I said we own the cattle that I cook up. So IMO that is half the battle.

A good friend of mine's wife use to run a BBQ restaurant and her Brisket was some of the best I've ever ate. Issue was it was just to much work for her as My friend had a full time farm.

I'd love to taste your BBQ. What was the name of your Restaurant and what was your special?

As far as food competition goes I won the Sertoma chili cook off twice in a Row back in the 90's I think 95 or 96 , I cooked for 96.5 hot Country Radio station and one year I Judged. My EX was station manager that is why I did the cooking. The station kept the plaques and at the time so I'm not sure the years exactly, I didn't really think it was that big of deal at the time and thought it was a chore and a wasted weekend. But now I'm sort of proud of it.
 
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