Fire Matheny now.

[Neutron Monster]

Imagine how good he could be if he would just hit from the left side all the time. Why do guys insist on being a switch hitter when their numbers are so much worse from one side?

Try looking at his stats before 2017. You'll reach the exact opposite conclusion.

His career batting average as a righty is 40 points higher than as a lefty.

You're focused on an 85 plate appearance sample size in 2017. That's like 2 weeks worth of games. It's meaningless.

 

[Neutron Monster]

Bowman gives up another bomb in the 8th inning. Why? Why? Why is he in there?

Who would you put in there? Bowman has been decent for us for 1.5 years now. Siegrist was used up. It was the bottom of the lineup - no reason to burn Rosie until you have to.

I don't think the other choices are that great in that spot with righthanded batters coming up. Oh? Brebbia? I don't think there was someone who was obviously better.

 

[3Rfan]

I totally agree. You can trade Lynn and then sign him as a free agent if you like. Carp is a DH. Pham will never be more valuable than he is right now. They already blew it not trading Adams or Wong earlier. They just cant pull the trigger. Ball less. Buy low. Sell high is pretty simple.

Lance Lynn in last in last 5 starts - .71 ERA. What is it you want to get when you trade him?

Try looking at his stats before 2017. You'll reach the exact opposite conclusion.

His career batting average as a righty is 40 points higher than as a lefty.

You're focused on an 85 plate appearance sample size in 2017. That's like 2 weeks worth of games. It's meaningless.

It's not meaningless in 2017 when he faces a lefties. NOW is when they need the guy to hit.

 

[Neutron Monster]

It's not meaningless in 2017 when he faces a lefties. NOW is when they need the guy to hit.

it is meaningless. Come on. This is like saying xyz sucks because he was 0-4 yesterday. It's too small to be meaningful.

You have seasons worth of data that shows he is better as a lefty. There's no reason to believe this has changed based upon just 85 times up. That's less than a month. That's nothing. Guys go hot and cold all the time.

 

[Duck_walk]

Lance Lynn in last in last 5 starts - .71 ERA. What is it you want to get when you trade him?

It's not meaningless in 2017 when he faces a lefties. NOW is when they need the guy to hit.

If Lynn leaves at the end of the season in free agency, the Cardinals get NOTHING.

 

[3Rfan]

it is meaningless. Come on. This is like saying xyz sucks because he was 0-4 yesterday. It's too small to be meaningful.

You have seasons worth of data that shows he is better as a lefty. There's no reason to believe this has changed based upon just 85 times up. That's less than a month. That's nothing. Guys go hot and cold all the time.

I've been saying he is better as a lefty! What the heck did you think my point was?

 

[Neutron Monster]

I typed the wrong thing. I meant righty.

 

[3Rfan]

I typed the wrong thing. I meant righty.

He certainly hasn't been this season and that's what I'm interested in.

 

[wccards21]

If Lynn leaves at the end of the season in free agency, the Cardinals get NOTHING.

He doesn't understand how trades work

 

[wccards21]

it is meaningless. Come on. This is like saying xyz sucks because he was 0-4 yesterday. It's too small to be meaningful.

You have seasons worth of data that shows he is better as a lefty. There's no reason to believe this has changed based upon just 85 times up. That's less than a month. That's nothing. Guys go hot and cold all the time.

He's nearly a career .300 hitter from the right side. Clearly he sucks

 

[3Rfan]

He's nearly a career .300 hitter from the right side. Clearly he sucks

Maybe he should go back to Chicago where he was soon good then.

 

[goinlong]

If Lynn leaves at the end of the season in free agency, the Cardinals get NOTHING.

Well, not quite. Compensation pick if they offer him the 1 year deal and he turns it down (which I'm sure would happen). I'm all for moving him for as much as they can get out of him, but if no one offers more than a bucket of balls then I could see hanging on to him and taking the pick instead.

 

[wccards21]

Well, not quite. Compensation pick if they offer him the 1 year deal and he turns it down (which I'm sure would happen). I'm all for moving him for as much as they can get out of him, but if no one offers more than a bucket of balls then I could see hanging on to him and taking the pick instead.

That won't be the case though. I'm not saying Darvish going to crap lately changes a lot of things....

But, that could maybe get them a small step up in a prospect return.

 

[wccards21]

Maybe he should go back to Chicago where he was soon good then.

Maybe your front office should think before signing a 30+ year old, coming off two career seasons with the hottest team in the league, to a long term deal. Who would have thought regression would happen? Probably has something to do with why the Cubs were fine with Almora/Jay in CF

 

[Neutron Monster]

Maybe your front office should think before signing a 30+ year old, coming off two career seasons with the hottest team in the league, to a long term deal. Who would have thought regression would happen? Probably has something to do with why the Cubs were fine with Almora/Jay in CF

To be fair they didn't pay him to be the guy he was in Chicago.

The more concerning thing to me is the injury stuff, he's always been injury prone, and he needs to give you 130 games a year to be worth the contract

 

[Neutron Monster]

Well, not quite. Compensation pick if they offer him the 1 year deal and he turns it down (which I'm sure would happen). I'm all for moving him for as much as they can get out of him, but if no one offers more than a bucket of balls then I could see hanging on to him and taking the pick instead.

The pick is worse under the new CBA, it's pretty easy for teams to beat the value of a 3rd rounder

 

[wccards21]

To be fair they didn't pay him to be the guy he was in Chicago.

The more concerning thing to me is the injury stuff, he's always been injury prone, and he needs to give you 130 games a year to be worth the contract

Injury, yes. He always has a DL stint. ALWAYS.

 

[goinlong]

The pick is worse under the new CBA, it's pretty easy for teams to beat the value of a 3rd rounder

Bader was a 3rd rounder. I wonder what that fella we got for Adams would equate to in regards to value within the draft?

 

[Duck_walk]

Bader was a 3rd rounder. I wonder what that fella we got for Adams would equate to in regards to value within the draft?

So Bader is a HOFer now?

 

[oldroundballer]

So Bader is a HOFer now?

That's exactly what I took goinlong to mean too.

 

[Neutron Monster]

Bader was a 3rd rounder. I wonder what that fella we got for Adams would equate to in regards to value within the draft?

Pujols was a 13th rounder. He is better than any position player we have. WHY NOT TRADE ALL OF THEM FOR 13TH ROUNDERS AND END UP WITH 8 MORE ALBERT PUJOLSES!

You can see why this is absurd. You have to look at the average player you're drafting in those spots. Draft picks are guesses. There is a big drop from the 1st round to the 3rd round based upon history. More than half of the guys drafted in the 3rd round will never play a major league game.

The average 3rd rounder will generate under 2 WAR for their entire MLB career. This includes WAR earned after reaching free agency and leaving team control. The team control value is closer to 1 WAR. Lance Lynn may be worth that on his own over the next two months. he projects to be worth an awful lot more than that over the next few years.

 

[Duck_walk]

That's exactly what I took goinlong to mean too.

Bader has been here two games. He was using him as an example of a third round pick that paid off big. Stop it.

 

[Neutron Monster]

I went and pulled the Cards third rounders from 2000 for reference:

00 - Chase Voshell
01 - Joe Mather
02 - Calvin Hayes
03 - Dennis Dove
04 - Eric Haberer
05 - Daryl Jones
06 - Gary Daley
07 - Dan Descalso
08 - Ernest Vasquez
09 - Joe Kelly
10 - Tuivailala
11 - CJ McElroy
12 - Tim Cooney
13 - Mike Mayers
14 - Trevor Megill
15 - Bader
16 - Zac Gallen

This is not exactly a murderer's row of talent here.

 

[Duck_walk]

I went and pulled the Cards third rounders from 2000 for reference:

00 - Chase Voshell
01 - Joe Mather
02 - Calvin Hayes
03 - Dennis Dove
04 - Eric Haberer
05 - Daryl Jones
06 - Gary Daley
07 - Dan Descalso
08 - Ernest Vasquez
09 - Joe Kelly
10 - Tuivailala
11 - CJ McElroy
12 - Tim Cooney
13 - Mike Mayers
14 - Trevor Megill
15 - Bader
16 - Zac Gallen

This is not exactly a murderer's row of talent here.

Im sure mayers will get a red jacket one day.........

 

[goinlong]

Look fellas, I'm not even remotely trying to make a case that a 3rd round pick means we can get a world beater. My point is that there's the ability to find solid talent in the 3rd round (or any round if you get lucky enough). The scouts and GM's have a good idea about who will be available in the upcoming draft and will therefore assign a value to a 3rd round pick for the upcoming draft. If they feel like it's a deep draft, they may prefer to take the pick. If they feel like it's not a particularly solid draft, they may prefer a minor leaguer elsewhere with upside.

 

[Neutron Monster]

Look fellas, I'm not even remotely trying to make a case that a 3rd round pick means we can get a world beater. My point is that there's the ability to find solid talent in the 3rd round (or any round if you get lucky enough). The scouts and GM's have a good idea about who will be available in the upcoming draft and will therefore assign a value to a 3rd round pick for the upcoming draft. If they feel like it's a deep draft, they may prefer to take the pick. If they feel like it's not a particularly solid draft, they may prefer a minor leaguer elsewhere with upside.

I agree it is something, but it is as much of a something as someone with a track record in the minors that suggests they have a real chance to play a major league game? No.