The House also voted for the RR's to give the 7 days of sick leave that was a sticking point for the workers then the Senate shot that down. Ole Joe Manchin voted with the pubs on that point. I wonder if all the union coal miners in his state have paid sick leave?
Congress voted to stop the RR strike
- Thread starter 3Rfan
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It's 7 days over the whole year, not 7 days whenever you feel like taking off work, and every federal contractor has it. Maintenance of Way workers worked through the pandemic and either got covid or were required to quarantine, without pay, when a coworker got it.
We wouldn’t want Warren buffet to share his company’s five billion in net income. Screw the sick workers.
I'll repeat, it would cost the RR's ONE CENT of every dollar of their record profits to give them the sick leave they asked for, and that is EVERY worker took all of their sick days in a year.
I doubt if most blue collar workers in America have paid sick days. Back in the day I worked in a few factories and was an iron worker. Most places had 6-8 allowed unpaid sick days and a couple personal days without requiring any documented reason. Any absences over that and you had to have a dr excuse. Some places did, and probably still do, allow you to use vacation days as sick days if you still want paid for that day.
3R - what makes RR workers special with requiring paid sick leave? What is the RR policy on # of unpaid sick days allowed, personal days, vacation days and additional vacation days with yrs of experience? Are RR workers allowed to use vacation days for absences? Many people accumulate as much as 4 weeks and more of paid vacation after 25-30 yrs on the job.
I'm with Shipper, give me an extra 7 paid days off work and I'm probably taking them off, on top of my vacation days and personal days. Seems to me that the RR union is taking advantage of the current economic conditions knowing that a strike would cause another economic downturn just as we have had a couple months of growth. Will other industry unions follow suit? Won't additional paid sick days benefits lead to corporations slowing wage increases?
Get a contracted salary job if you want a guaranteed income, but kiss the overtime pay goodbye!!!
3R - what makes RR workers special with requiring paid sick leave? What is the RR policy on # of unpaid sick days allowed, personal days, vacation days and additional vacation days with yrs of experience? Are RR workers allowed to use vacation days for absences? Many people accumulate as much as 4 weeks and more of paid vacation after 25-30 yrs on the job.
I'm with Shipper, give me an extra 7 paid days off work and I'm probably taking them off, on top of my vacation days and personal days. Seems to me that the RR union is taking advantage of the current economic conditions knowing that a strike would cause another economic downturn just as we have had a couple months of growth. Will other industry unions follow suit? Won't additional paid sick days benefits lead to corporations slowing wage increases?
Get a contracted salary job if you want a guaranteed income, but kiss the overtime pay goodbye!!!
You have turned into a full fledged Mitt Romney. Warren Buffett’s five billion in net income isn’t enough to share a little bit? Most workers don’t use all their paid sick days. I worked for two companies that gave a limited number of paid sick days to blue collar workers and that was 40 years ago.
Why do you hate workers?
LOL I have no problem cutting in to corporate profits for the workers benefit. . But are you so naive to think corporations won't offset the cost in other areas, maybe increased shipping costs that are passed on to the consumer or even cut a few jobs . And I do see it as a potential problem for small businesses if any kind of mandatory paid sick leave became universal law . Will paid sick days require a dr visit or written documentation? Or can you just call in sick and get paid? Will sick days carry over yearly in case of a major illness or surgery? Or accumulate until retirement and then get paid for them? And most young people don't have the same work ethic as older generations - they will take as many paid days off as the company will give them.
2 weeks paid sick leave, 8 weeks maternity leave for both spouses, couple weeks of paid vacation, a few personal days off, paid insurance for your family.....what's next?? company paid for meals at work???
I would rather see wages increase and better paid health insurance coverage.
The RR union knew the timing was perfect with talk of supply disruptions and damage to the economy already in recovery.
2 weeks paid sick leave, 8 weeks maternity leave for both spouses, couple weeks of paid vacation, a few personal days off, paid insurance for your family.....what's next?? company paid for meals at work???
I would rather see wages increase and better paid health insurance coverage.
The RR union knew the timing was perfect with talk of supply disruptions and damage to the economy already in recovery.
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WRONG,! The timing was very bad for the workers! Everybody, and especially the RR companies, knew congress was NOT going to allow a strike to happen right now so they didn't have to give in at all. If the workers were allowed to strike their union would get the blame for shutting down the economy again. Do you think the RR companies couldn't afford 1 penny for every dollar of profit they are making for sick leave? I don't know what they get for time off now, I've been gone for years. I do know the RR's have caused the issue with a short workforce by laying off too many workers, especially on the train service side.
The Maintenance guys that are on the gangs that work far from home most of the time were working 8 on and 7 off to make up their pay half, recently I was told the RR changed that 9 on and 6 off. All that sounds great unless you know they from Missouri are working 3 or 4 states away from home most of the time and when they're closer to home somebody is that far from home. They spend a day or two to get home and a day of two to get back to the job or have to fly to St.Louis or Memphis and drive home so they hardly ever have 6 or 7 days at home. Everyone seems to forget these negotiations have been going on for 3 years and the RR's do that every contract. This is the first one I know of that will at least get full backpay for the difference in pay for all hours worked the last 3 years. Every contract I was involved in for over 30 years we got maybe 1 year of back pay and just like this one their contribution to the medical coverage goes up.
This myth that companies have to make a certain level of profit so if they have a cost go up they automatically have to raise their prices is absolutely absurd.
It depends on the product or service. Raising prices can decrease demand for the product. Often companies are better off biting the bullet than raising prices.
It ain’t going to kill Warren Buffett to bite the bullet in this instance.
It depends on the product or service. Raising prices can decrease demand for the product. Often companies are better off biting the bullet than raising prices.
It ain’t going to kill Warren Buffett to bite the bullet in this instance.
And both sides knew congress would strike a middle ground, and the unions would gain something they didn't have previously. The RR unions absolutely knew they had the country by the gonads. I hate for the government to get involved with negotiations and setting a precedent. Whose next in line for paid sick days demands now that the cork is out of the bottle? truck drivers? auto workers? Amazon workers? Dickie Bub's grocery store workers.
How about how many vacation days, personal days, allowed unpaid sick days, additional vacation after yrs on the job for RR workers?? I believe you must have had 30+ yrs of service - how many vacation days did you get yearly? Probably 3 or 4 weeks of paid vacation. Whats wrong with using vacation days if you get sick so you still are getting paid?
1 penny for every dollar of profit?? Who came up with that number? I'm always skeptical of those kinds of "stats".How many ways does that dollar of profit have to be split among shareholders??
Most people work 5 days and 2 off, some even 6 on and 1 off. You knew when you were hired what the hours would be, if you don't like it, go to work somewhere else. The RR workers I know sure seem to make a decent living.
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They make good money but the guys on the gangs I spoke of don't have the best quality of family life. There were lots of headquartered jobs when I started and several still when I retired, you just had to work long enough to get the seniority it took get the ones closest to home. They have very few of those anymore so it's on the road for most now. The train crews is where a lot of the issues are, they want them marked up to be called ALL the time. I talked to a guy a while back whose sons are an engineer and a yard master. The engineer's bosses complained that he was only marked 87% of the time. How many people do you now that have be available that much and get a 2 hour call time before they have to be there for a run that takes 10 or 12 hours then an over night stay and do it all over again? They laid off so many people they can't keep the trains moving unless they do that. Do you want to use your vacation for being sick? I had to do that a few times. If you've never done what they do you have NO idea what it's like even with a lot of fancy machinery to do it with rather than a 4 to 6 man gang pulling ties by hand with tie tongs and swinging a spike maul when you dig out the holes and pull the ties back in with tie tongs. It was hot, cold and hard but I wouldn't trade my RR experience for what they do out there now even with all the equipment they have.
None of that explains why RR workers are entitled to paid sick days benefits that the vast majority of blue collar workers in America don't receive. Millions of Americans work long hours, have strenuous jobs in the heat and cold, and are away from home and family for multiple days at a time.
You never did answer how much paid vacation a 10yr, 20 yr or 30 yr employee gets.
Good for the RR unions for getting 7 paid sick days. I guess 8 weeks of paternity leave will be next.
You never did answer how much paid vacation a 10yr, 20 yr or 30 yr employee gets.
Good for the RR unions for getting 7 paid sick days. I guess 8 weeks of paternity leave will be next.
They did NOT get it! Pubs in the Senate killed it and ole buddy Joe Manchin voted with them again. I got 1 week after a year, 2 after 2 years 3 after 10 years and 4 after 20. I think a lot more people get it than you think. All federal workers AND contractors get it.
I'd say if they get the 7 days they can use it when they need it correct? You could easily take off 7 days for paid buck fever... and then if you get sick later just call in unpaid for those days.
Often times companies will reformulate or cheapen the quality of the raw materials used in the product to maintain their profit margin and Quality suffers, if they demean a price increase will decrease demand. Or they will out source to other regions where labor is cheap and benefits are a Fairy tale.
Companies rarely bite the bullet as you say.
Federal Workers are a huge Issue..... they are over paid, underworked and clearly over benefited. Why Because they steal the Labors of the Taxpayer and the Feds throw that money around like it's Free. It's really disgusting!
I can see why RR companies are not wanting to emulate Federal Policies! But with that said I have no issue with some Paid Sick time off. But let's be real the Unions are Leveraging this situation. Come on you have to be more in tuned with how things work hopefully you don't believe that a Company or Union wouldn't make calculated decisions and maneuvers to get the desired outcome they are striving for.
Some Jobs do have great Vacation and Sick Leave benefits.....
I have a decent Package. We earn Sick and Vacation time per hours worked. There is a Max at 528 hrs Vac and 480 hr Sick.
I often lose earned Vac an Sick time because I'm at the max of both. And can't gain any more.
Also Vac time has to be approved so they can deny your request which happens frequently do to scheduling. I don't call in a lot so I have acquired a lot of time over 25 yrs. The younger workers don't because they burn it as quick as they get it in most cases.
The Use of Sick time has a lot of strings attached though. First off before you can get to your Sick days you have to burn 4 days of your Vacation time then you move into your sick Days which have to be Signed off on by a DR and that doc. sent to HR. So really sick time is only for Catastrophic issues. Surgery's major health issues etc.
IF you have a Bug you are always using Vacation time for Call in's. And you are only allowed 5 total unexcused Call in's per Calendar year go over that and you are written up and dismissed.... but the call ins don't get removed at the end of the year they only drop off 365 days running from the date of the Call in. So they linger a long time. You can also only call in 2 days in a row without a note or excuse from HealthCare professional. After that you have to have documentation that you are ill. There are other rules and guidelines as well.
So on the surface having 66 days of Vacation looks great but again You have to schedule the time off and it be approved and also it can't be used over the Holidays of Christmas/NY/Thanksgiving. They also have a 2-3 week max time in a Row off rule.
I look at it like this.... I know Vacation and Sick time Cost money. If I go on vacation or get Sick I'm getting Paid still. The Facility has to fill my spot and that person is getting paid and often getting paid OT to boot. That means they are paying double or more in Wages for the work I normally do in a shift, just so I can enjoy my leisure time on vacation. And every employee has this benefit package as well. All those benefits cost a lot of money across the board and those expenses are passed on to the Patient/Insurance/Govt. make no doubt about that.
I can see why private Companies balk at being strong armed by Unions....
Honestly, I don't know how standard paid sick days are in today's work place. I was mostly pissed at the RR unions for the threat of a major devastating blow to our economy just as we were turning things around with positive economic growth after a bad first half of the year, thanks to Putin.
Yeah, it's easy to say both sides knew it wouldn't come to a strike, but it was a real possibility. And I was thinking "damn boys, why do you have to do this right now when you all know what a strike will do to our country???" We need stability for the economy to grow. I found it somewhat selfish to put personal gain over good of the country, after what we've been thru the past couple of years, over an issue of a benefit most Americans don't receive IMO (I don't have the proof of that statement).
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This is a game of chicken being played by all 3 sides.... RR companies to see if Union Wrks get mass support and Union seeing if they can Gin up support for their side. And Of course Politicians pandering to both sides behind the scenes while really doing nothing but prolong the situation.
I don't know if they would require a doctor's note for that but they did NOT get it so it's moot point.
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If they didn't strike the companies could have locked them out. Had that happen during my tenure on the RR. The RR's do this every contract, they drag it out make as long as possible. This is only contract I've ever seen where they will pay full back pay. As I've said before this is the best deal I've ever seen and I would have voted for it, but I don't know what working conditions are really like out there now with almost no headquartered gangs to work on so you can be home every night and weekend. I can only imagine what these guys are missing out on in the lives of their kids.
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I'm glad they got a good contract.
Q: We have a RR staging area in town. You can always see a few workers walking around doing what they do. I assumed they were local guys, or at least within driving distance each day. Am I wrong? You make it sound like practically zero RR workers work within driving distance of home. I don't know either, again I assumed that guys with seniority eventually got the best jobs, like close to home.
I know living out of a suitcase sucks. I did it for 5 yrs in the '80s working for a cable TV contractor. I worked in 25 cities in 7 states in 5 yrs. Fun for awhile for a single young guy, but eventually it got old so I quit. Many people do it - riverboat workers with 30 on and 15 days off, contractors, construction workers, over the road truck drivers. Just look at the hotel parking lots with all the work trucks. It's a choice - take it or leave it. A good buddy went to work for the RR out of high school in late '70s. He quit after 7-8 years for that exact reason - tired of living on the road. No one is being forced to do it.
I don't know what a staging area is. I assume you're talking about train crew guys, like those that are on the switch engine in a yard making up trains for long haul crews to pick up and set out cars as needed.
Maintenance of Way has a few jobs that are headquartered these days but nothing like it use to be. I'm sure they still have some welders, 2 guys, that go to the same place to start their day but there are very few track gangs that get to do that anymore. They have track inspectors that start and quit at the same place everyday and drive company Hi-Rail trucks but they are not union workers and they may cover a hundred miles of track then drive back home that evening. I know very few guys that work on the track anymore, a few locals and one whose dad I worked with off and on most of my career.
