Apparently Central is going to finish 3rd in their district. Glendale is going to finish 4th. This is because Central played a class 2 schedule. How is this fair? Does anyone think Central could stay within 40 points of Glendale?
Central
- Thread starter AC100
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It’s not fair, and honestly, I think it’ll all come out in the wash when they get turboed by a 2-win team in the first round of districts
It will all come out in the wash. The cream will rise to the top seed be darned.............
To my knowledge, it’s something along the lines of “Central wanted out of the OC for football only and Bolivar wanted in for football”
so central is a member for all sports other than football.
I was a huge proponent of Central getting out of the OzarkConference — not competitive.
But, this is a laugh out loud JOKE. How can you play this schedule and get a No. 3 seed? I don't care if it comes out it the wash, it doesn't matter.
How many district points do you get for a forfeit over Agape or a win over Lighthouse Christian? How many for the big wins against 0-9 Class 2 Clever and Cuba?
You shouldn't be able to play the single worst schedule any Class 5 team has ever put together — by a mile — and then be rewarded with any kind of seed, let alone a No. 3 seed.
In my opinion, they should be banned from Class 5 postseason on general principle.
Clever Class 2 0-9
Fair Grove Class 2 5-4
Cuba Class 2 0-9
Marionville Class 1 9-0
Strafford Class 2 5-4
Agape Homeschool
Lighthouse Christian Homeschool
Skyline Class 2 2-7
Buffalo Class 2 5-4
Forsyth Class 2 6-3
But, this is a laugh out loud JOKE. How can you play this schedule and get a No. 3 seed? I don't care if it comes out it the wash, it doesn't matter.
How many district points do you get for a forfeit over Agape or a win over Lighthouse Christian? How many for the big wins against 0-9 Class 2 Clever and Cuba?
You shouldn't be able to play the single worst schedule any Class 5 team has ever put together — by a mile — and then be rewarded with any kind of seed, let alone a No. 3 seed.
In my opinion, they should be banned from Class 5 postseason on general principle.
Clever Class 2 0-9
Fair Grove Class 2 5-4
Cuba Class 2 0-9
Marionville Class 1 9-0
Strafford Class 2 5-4
Agape Homeschool
Lighthouse Christian Homeschool
Skyline Class 2 2-7
Buffalo Class 2 5-4
Forsyth Class 2 6-3
Pembroke Hill has played an I League schedule for years, had a good record, and gotten the #1 seed in districts. Of course, they get smoked in districts. It all works out. The best teams win state, the crappy teams go to basketball practice.
Certainly the points formula could be adjusted for next year and after, based on this perfect example Central brought to our attention.
If the formula adds 10 points for each class you play up, then why wouldn’t it deduct 10 points for each class you play down?
At first, some might complain such as a Class 6 school that can’t schedule all class 6 regular season games. But remember, this points thing is in place for one purpose only - district seeding.
If the formula adds 10 points for each class you play up, then why wouldn’t it deduct 10 points for each class you play down?
At first, some might complain such as a Class 6 school that can’t schedule all class 6 regular season games. But remember, this points thing is in place for one purpose only - district seeding.
Meh. They finally beat Class 2 teams for once.
If the Ozark, COC and Big 8 had OOC dates available I would complain more about Central but they don't.
If the Ozark, COC and Big 8 had OOC dates available I would complain more about Central but they don't.
Not so bad if you're playing one class difference. But three classes? What about no deduction foe one class down, but go 20 for two classes and 30 for three.
Fair, was mainly referring to the other threads with a 101 different ways to fix it. I just don’t think some wacky formula is superior to coaches getting together and seeding.
It makes for a nice feel-good story for the News-Leader, which treats high school sports like K-8 youth sports these days, but a #2 seed is a little out-of-line with their level of competition. Glendale just had one of their top ten all-time wins and should've been the #3 seed.
I think it is vastly superior. Been in enough all conf meetings to know how that shit works. There's some shady MFers out there. I want no opinions involved. Facts speak for themselves. Everybody knows the system before we start. The best teams win it all, like they always have. That's all that matters.
because in the other sports it is an awful way to seed a district. A bunch of coaches getting together in a back room and seeding the postseason? I have seen a bunch of shady stuff. At least in football there’s at least SOME credibility to the process.
But opinions are involved. Any time you factor in strength of schedule, it’s arbitrary.
So mu
So much credibility that a crummy C5 team with a cake schedule and a 6-3 record could be worth more points than a good C5 team and a 5-4 record? That SOS formula is ridiculous. Are there deals in seed meetings? Sure. No system is going to be perfect. Once coaches had to reveal their seedings to everyone in the room, those deals became pretty tame. It’s one thing to screw someone via secret ballot, it’s another to do it right to their face. Most coaches don’t have the guts to do that.
ARBITRARY-based on random chance or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
You might think the SOS ridiculous, but it is definitely not based on opinion or arbitrary. ANYBODY math competent could figure out the SOS of any school in the state and agree on the outcome. Not everyone would agree though on whether Raytown South is better than Belton for instance.
because that's the worst way to seed.
I've seen some really shady stuff in bball district seeding meetings
The arbitrary, or randomness, of SOS comes from all teams not playing the same schedule. Meaning there’s a formula, derived from a human, that is the basis for SOS. It doesn’t account for, say, different C5 schools schedules that produce the records that drive the SOS formula. Hence the randomness of it all.
ARBITRARY-based on random chance or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
You might think the SOS ridiculous, but it is definitely not based on opinion or arbitrary. ANYBODY math competent could figure out the SOS of any school in the state and agree on the outcome. Not everyone would agree though on whether Raytown South is better than Belton for instance.
At some point, you just gotta win football games and quit with the whining and excuse making. Once those things become a way of life, they're tough to stop.
Well it seems there is no perfect way. And for those that have seem some shady shit, I completely get why you wouldn’t want to go down that path. We all live in a bubble of some sort and the districts that I tend to follow more closely I believe get seeding right more times than not in the other sports.
I didn’t like the point system in the 80s so I think I’ve just convinced myself this go around it was awful too. In the end this way everyone plays and winner moves on so it works out in the wash.
I didn’t like the point system in the 80s so I think I’ve just convinced myself this go around it was awful too. In the end this way everyone plays and winner moves on so it works out in the wash.
I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say. Teams schedule other teams. It is not arbitrary or random. They enter into contracts by choice.
If there is a formula (which are ALL derived by humans btw) used for measuring SOS or more generally for ranking purposes, especially one that in transparent and applicable to all involved, it is again by definition not arbitrary.
Your second to last statement seems to be making the argument that the formula for SOS is either:
a. Flawed-no doubt
b. Needs improvement-OK, what kind? I'm listening.
c. Needs to not allow a gaming of the system-How? What would that look like?
d. Needs to be scrapped-again OK, in favor of? coaches' seeding?-talk about arbitrary.
None of the above argues that it is arbitrary.
As you've said, nothing is going to be perfect.
Are there some things people are going to nearly universally agree is wrong? Probably.
Are there some schools/teams that are going to try to "game" the system? Maybe.
Could there be a better option? Could be. Personally, I think this system is the best MO has ever had. (I'm old enough to have seen them all.) I'm also not opposed to suggesting improvements. I have not been convinced that any of the proposed changes are or would be better though.
I think that may be a little to given the difficulties of scheduling and sometimes it could be a conference game.
Reduce the value of playing up to 5 per class and reduce points for playing more than 1 class down by 5. Maybe make an exception for conference games. For example sometimes Centralia is class 3 but is in a conference with class 1 teams. With the number of teams going 8 man, The largest team in class 1 keeps increasing
There has to be a way to not give as much benefit for a class 1playing a 1-8 class 3 team that won it's first game in 2342342342 years by beating a team that's lost 234209349023 in a row vs say a 5-5 class 3 team.
The randomness, in my viewpoint, are the points assigned to teams that aren't alike yet given the same value in the SOS. Maybe semantics, maybe a poor use of the word. At the core, I think the SOS factor is seriously flawed. Look no further than Spfd Central. At the very least, playing down should have a negative weight factor.
I'd agree though, this is the best system for football I've seen in MO. I'd scrap the points system and go to coaches vote to seed. I know people talk about the horrors of shady deals, and it's true. But in my experiences in hoops, those are extremely few and far between now that the voting process is transparent. It's a lot harder to screw someone when you have to look them in the eye (along with all other coaches in the district) while doing it. In the end, I'm not sure it'd make a whole lot of difference though. Just be a lot easier than the current system, more simplified if you will. In either scenario, everyone is in and they have to win to advance. It's such a simple principle, but football struggled to get there for quite some time.
Couldn't agree more. That's kinda why I like the coaches voting for seeds. It's simpler and you still have to beat the teams in front of you to advance.
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