Cardinals managers

[Pancho and Lefty]

I don't live and die with every game like some do. Serious question though. Matheny was fired, assuming because of the team was getting stale and playing about .500 ball. Shildt takes over, team gets hot for a bit, then falls short of playoffs. Same thing this year. One hot streak but other than that about .500 ball. To me this team is the old Bill Parcells, you are what your record is. They are an average team. Point being Matheny was fired for avg ball, how long will Shildt get?

My opinion is they are an average team. Many of the free agent deals have worked out well below expectations. PItching was relying on young talent, some of which has been hurt, some not quite panned out. Team can't hit. Seems to me like front office is more responsible than a manager. Again don't watch all 162 like some do.

 

[Pancho and Lefty]

I guess another way to put is, what is / has Shildt doing that is better than Matheny? Outcome is the same.

Three points to add
1. Matheny inherited better bunch from Larussa
2. Free agent./ trade deals worked better back then, panned out better?
3. How much does a manager really mean to a mlb team? Best players win the most games? Do managers really affect many games?

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Matheny was fired because he and his coaching staff failed to pull players out of bad stretches. There wasn't a lot of coaching going on. At least, that's the feeling I get from Goold and a few others that are pretty close to the team. Matheny was absolutely horrid at the 10 or so decisions in a game that actually make a difference (ie, double-switching too early and too often, bunting in the 1st inning, bullpen management). He also developed a very tense personality with the media and seemed to take it personal when asked anything but a softball question. His clubhouse was divided, and unless you were WASPy you weren't in his trusted circle. Right or wrong, his beef with Yadi is probably what sank his ship. Just took a while to sink after. There's a reason the MLB network identified him as the worst MLB manager a year or two ago. Maybe he's not the worst. Who really knows? But the fact remains, he's really bad at it.

That said, Shildt doesn't seem to be very good either. His insistence to rely on Fowler, refusal to move Carpenter out of the leadoff spot, and refusal just to pencil in your best hitter (JMart) is just ridiculous. He's nothing more than a puppet with Mo's hand up his arse. I think Shildt is in over his head, much the way Matheny was. I feel like Shildt's in game decision-making is better, but his staff doesn't seem all that great at handling slumps either. And now Shildt is getting defensive in the media. Almost sounding like a whiner when questioned about their bad play. Saying that nobody should be too worried about their play, and they're not performing all that badly. Just stupid.

I'm convinced, Mo is the real problem. You can tell a lot about a leader when the noose gets tight. He's in complete panic mode. His moves the last three or four years have been brutal. He had it easy for a long time. And I really think he took over a winner, then had the luxury of Jeff Luhnow by his side. Or had his password. Now he doesn't have any of that, and it shows.

 

[Duck_walk]

The baserunning is much better
The defense is better.
Those things were atrocious under Matheny.

The hitting has been absolutely horrendous.
The pitching has been inconsistent.

2-3 years ago, I think most people thought the starting rotation by 2019 would be
Carlos Martinez, Reyes, Flaherty, Marco Gonzales, Wacha/Weaver.

2-3 years ago, I believe the Cardinals expected their outfield of the future to be Piscotty, Grichuk, and Pham.

Luke Voigt is playing like an All Star.
Pham is the face of the Rays.
Gonzales is pitching better than some of our rotation. Luke Weaver is pitching well.
Piscotty and Grichuk arent great.

We signed 32+ Fowler to a long term deal.
We signed 2 more 32 year olds to extensions--Goldie and Carp.

We signed a washed up 32 year old Holland.
We signed a washed up 34 year old Miller.
Ironically, Mo got all kinds of praise for not signing a 32 year old Albert to a long term deal, but now when he signs these guys to shorter deals it blows up in his face.

We did sign 29 year old Miles Mikolas.

Some of our prospects havent turned out to be great players. Others have been moved to other teams and have become solid performers.

A lot of our signings have flopped.

Mo is responsible. Would we have been better off selling off our veterans and going with a lot of youngsters, taking our lumps for a few years and rebuilding instead of aiming for the 2nd wildcard the past 4 years? Probably.

 

[Pancho and Lefty]

So really what you guys are saying is it should have been Duck for GM and Eagles for skipper? Agree with both of you. I don't put any stock in the radio and tv postgame shows, but listening to them say this is a team waiting to take off, ready to click, etc. is crazy. They are an average team with average players.

Not in the locker room so don't know for sure but they don't seem to have anyone who just hates to lose. Nobody plays like their hair's on fire.

 

[Duck_walk]

So really what you guys are saying is it should have been Duck for GM and Eagles for skipper? Agree with both of you. I don't put any stock in the radio and tv postgame shows, but listening to them say this is a team waiting to take off, ready to click, etc. is crazy. They are an average team with average players.

Not in the locker room so don't know for sure but they don't seem to have anyone who just hates to lose. Nobody plays like their hair's on fire.

I think maybe Eagles should take on the duel role. I honestly think some of these signings have the team in a bad spot and the farm system is mediocre. I couldnt fix it.

 

[3Rfan]

I don't live and die with every game like some do. Serious question though. Matheny was fired, assuming because of the team was getting stale and playing about .500 ball. Shildt takes over, team gets hot for a bit, then falls short of playoffs. Same thing this year. One hot streak but other than that about .500 ball. To me this team is the old Bill Parcells, you are what your record is. They are an average team. Point being Matheny was fired for avg ball, how long will Shildt get?

My opinion is they are an average team. Many of the free agent deals have worked out well below expectations. PItching was relying on young talent, some of which has been hurt, some not quite panned out. Team can't hit. Seems to me like front office is more responsible than a manager. Again don't watch all 162 like some do.

They're just above .500 even with the 20-10 start. If they had played .500 in April they would be in a BIG hole in the Central. Without the hot start Goldy's numbers would be lookin REALLY bad about now. I hope they get it goin soon before the Brewers and Cubs wake up.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

I think maybe Eagles should take on the duel role. I honestly think some of these signings have the team in a bad spot and the farm system is mediocre. I couldnt fix it.

Sign me up! I'll take that cash. Guarantee I could get them to .500. Granted the Dewitts would fire me quickly. But I'll take those two salaries for a year. I need some time to drop about 15-20 lbs though. Hard to make 5'6" 190 look good in baseball pants.