ADVERTISEMENT

Boogie Man

runyouover

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2002
2,725
168
63
28
Gumbo, Mo
You don't even have to leave Missouri.
044f7a8.jpg

Frank Ancona
Imperial Wizard
Traditionalist American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
Park Hills, MO.




This post was edited on 4/3 8:56 AM by runyouover

This post was edited on 4/3 9:00 AM by runyouover
 
I hear ya!! Racial tensions and bigotry of all kinds seem to be escalating in our country to the point of the 1960s. I do believe the Civil Rights Movement opened a lot of eyes in America. Looking back as a teenager in the '70s, I would like to think that our generation viewed blacks much differently than our parents. Not many people from the Baby Boomer generation had any black friends. Most kids from my generation had black friends in the '70s, and I think black people our age were very open to having white friends as well. Sure there were areas of the city whites didn't go, just as there were places in small towns that my blacks friends would be afraid at night. And there were other changes in attitudes with the "love and peace" "anti establishment" generation. We were tired of the Vietnam war, race riots, distrust of government, and the whole culture of the unrest in our country.

Things changed for awhile. Now it seems like we have reverted back to the simmering pot of social unrest precipatating the cultural revolution. Seems like we are repeating history.
This post was edited on 4/3 9:39 AM by Bogey Man
 
Growing social unrest with government waged,endless wars, government distrust/incompetance/polarization, and rising racial tensions. None have reached the levels of '60s but certainly more so than anytime since the '60s.
 
Part of this might be due to the fact that we a president that stokes racial and class warfare.

You know, "setting in the back of the bus" , "If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon" , "The police acted stupidly" , "the rich don't pay their fair share".

Not in any way saying this is the whole problem, but it hasn't helped to unite the country.
 
Obama is probably the biggest racist we have had in the white house in 100 years.

Isnt it funny how with the large pool of qualified people to be Attorney General that both of his picks have been black??

No wonder the Black Panthers got a pass when they were armed and intimidating voters in Philly, what do you think Eric Holder would have done if they were white people armed and intimidating black voters at a polling place?

COuntry will be much better off when Obama is just a bad memory along with Jimmy Carter
 
Originally posted by Stevedangos:

Obama is probably the biggest racist we have had in the white house in 100 years.

Isnt it funny how with the large pool of qualified people to be Attorney General that both of his picks have been black??

No wonder the Black Panthers got a pass when they were armed and intimidating voters in Philly, what do you think Eric Holder would have done if they were white people armed and intimidating black voters at a polling place?

COuntry will be much better off when Obama is just a bad memory along with Jimmy Carter
HOT TAEK
 
Originally posted by ag-man:
Part of this might be due to the fact that we a president that stokes racial and class warfare.

You know, "setting in the back of the bus" , "If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon" , "The police acted stupidly" , "the rich don't pay their fair share".

Not in any way saying this is the whole problem, but it hasn't helped to unite the country.
The problem with this is the facts generally support these items as being serious topics for discussion - the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, and middle class wages have stagnated. How is that not an issue that demands discussion from policy makers?

The same on race - black Americans are poorer, more likely to go to failing schools, more likely to get caught up in the criminal justice system for menial matters, and more likely to face discrimination. You have to be in denial to not to see this.

I don't always agree with what the President thinks or says, but there is an idea out there that you can't talk about or do anything about race or class. I don't agree with it.

It's one thing to say that government shouldn't or can't provide answers/solutions to many of these ideas, or that some of the ideas pitched by the White House are misguided (because some of them are). It's another to pretend these facts don't exist or that these aren't major issues which impact the lives of a large percentage of Americans.

Obama is not a major instigator of racial or class strife in the US. Come on now.
 
NM,

I will agree these are serious topics of discussion. In these instances, was the president being serious? No, he was being petty, and a class and race baitor.

Black Americans are poorer. Why?

They are more likely to end up in jail. Why?

The rich pay the most taxes, but it still isn't their fair share. Why?

These are serious questions, too bad a serious discussion is not taking place to address them.
 
Originally posted by ag-man:

NM,

I will agree these are serious topics of discussion. In these instances, was the president being serious? No, he was being petty, and a class and race baitor.

Black Americans are poorer. Why?

They are more likely to end up in jail. Why?

The rich pay the most taxes, but it still isn't their fair share. Why?

These are serious questions, too bad a serious discussion is not taking place to address them.
Tax code was designed to make the rich get richer. Going back to ...oh...the early 80s or so.
Thanks Reagan.
 
Person A paying less in taxes doesn't make my life worse and person A paying more doesn't make my life better.
Anyone who thinks it isn't right unless the rich pay 80% is just jealous.
 
There are a lot of jealous people in the world, but then we have government and leadership that play that card in every election.
 
Democrats were the ones pushing tax code changes in the 80's dude


The Tax code underwent major changes during Regans time in office in 1986.

It was a Democratic proposal sponsored by Democrat Dan Rostenkowski of Ilinoise, not Republicans

It passed the house by a voice vote, and the Senate by a roll call vote of 97-3

Regan signed it October 1986
 
Re: Democrats were the ones pushing tax code changes in the 80's dude

Taxes: What people forget about Reagan
chart_reagan_taxes5.top.gif By Jeanne Sahadi, senior writerSeptember 12, 2010: 8:21 AM ET


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Those who oppose higher taxes and are fed up with record levels of U.S. debt may pine for Ronald Reagan, the patron saint of lower taxes and smaller government.

But it's worth considering just what Reagan did -- and didn't do -- as lawmakers grapple with many of the same issues that their 1980s counterparts faced: a deep recession, high deficits and a rip-roaring political divide over taxes.

2770
17

Email
Print
Comment

Soon after taking office in 1981, Reagan signed into law one of the largest tax cuts in the postwar period.

That legislation -- phased in over three years -- pushed through a 23% across-the-board cut of individual income tax rates. It also called for tax brackets, the standard deduction and personal exemptions to be adjusted for inflation starting in 1984. That would reduce "bracket creep" since the high inflation of the 1970s and early 1980s meant incomes rose very fast, pushing taxpayers into ever higher brackets even though the real value of their income hadn't changed.

The 1981 bill also made certain business deductions more generous.

In 1986, Reagan lowered individual income tax rates again, this time in landmark tax reform legislation.

As a result of the 1981 and 1986 bills, the top income tax rate was slashed from 70% to 28%.

Despite the aggressive tax cutting, Reagan couldn't ignore the budget deficit, which was burgeoning.

After Reagan's first year in office, the annual deficit was 2.6% of gross domestic product. But it hit a high of 6% in 1983, stayed in the 5% range for the next three years, and fell to 3.1% by 1988. (By comparison, this year it's projected to be 9% but is expected to drop considerably thereafter.)

So, despite his public opposition to higher taxes, Reagan ended up signing off on several measures intended to raise more revenue.

"Reagan was certainly a tax cutter legislatively, emotionally and ideologically. But for a variety of political reasons, it was hard for him to ignore the cost of his tax cuts," said tax historian Joseph Thorndike.

Two bills passed in 1982 and 1984 together "constituted the biggest tax increase ever enacted during peacetime," Thorndike said.

The bills didn't raise more revenue by hiking individual income tax rates though. Instead they did it largely through making it tougher to evade taxes, and through "base broadening" -- that is, reducing various federal tax breaks and closing tax loopholes.

For instance, more asset sales became taxable and tax-advantaged contributions and benefits under pension plans were further limited.

"What people forget about Ronald Reagan was that he very much converted to base broadening as a means of reducing deficits and as a means of tax reform," said Eugene Steuerle, an Institute Fellow at the Urban Institute who had helped lay the groundwork for tax reform in 1986 and served as a deputy assistant Treasury secretary during Reagan's second term.

There were other notable tax increases under Reagan.

In 1983, for example, he signed off on Social Security reform legislation that, among other things, accelerated an increase in the payroll tax rate, required that higher-income beneficiaries pay income tax on part of their benefits, and required the self-employed to pay the full payroll tax rate, rather than just the portion normally paid by employees.

The tax reform of 1986, meanwhile, wasn't designed to increase federal tax revenue. But that didn't mean that no one's taxes went up. Because the reform bill eliminated or reduced many tax breaks and shelters, high-income tax filers who previously paid little ended up with bigger tax bills.

"Some of these taxpayers were substantial contributors to the Republican Party and to the president's re-election campaign, and had direct access to the White House. Reagan rebuffed their pleas," wrote J. Roger Mentz, the Treasury assistant secretary for tax policy in 1986, in a Tax Notes commentary last year.

All told, the tax increases Reagan approved ended up canceling out much of the reduction in tax revenue that resulted from his 1981 legislation.

Annual federal tax receipts during his presidency averaged 18.2% of GDP, a smidge below the average under President Carter -- and a smidge above the 40-year average today.
How might Reagan fare today?

Reagan's behavior might not pass muster with those voters today who insist their Congressmen treat every proposed tax increase as poisonous to the republic.

"By today's standards, the Gipper would easily qualify for status as a back-stabbing, treacherous RINO [Republican in Name Only]," wrote Tax Analysts contributing editor Martin Sullivan, in an article for Tax Notes in May.

Thanks in part to the increases in defense spending during his administration, Reagan also didn't really reduce the size of government. Annual spending averaged 22.4% of GDP on his watch, which is above today's 40-year average of 20.7%, and above the 20.8% average under Carter.

Indeed, in one very symbolic respect he enlarged it. While in the early years of his presidency Reagan tried to shrink the IRS, by the end, the number of IRS employees hit an all-time high, according to Steuerle in his book Contemporary U.S. Tax Policy.

The reason was two-fold, Steuerle said. The first was a desire to crack down on the proliferation of tax shelters. But the point of cracking down was to boost tax revenue. That, in turn, could reduce the need to impose other tax increases to combat budget deficits. To top of page
 
Re: Democrats were the ones pushing tax code changes in the 80's dude

I have news for you.....they didn't slash taxes near enough. The less money the government has to waste on their own re-election buy outs...the better off the country is.

Trusting a politician with tax dollars is like trusting am alcoholic with booze or a drug addict with drugs.
 
Re: Democrats were the ones pushing tax code changes in the 80's dude

Originally posted by WCS Coach:
I have news for you.....they didn't slash taxes near enough. The less money the government has to waste on their own re-election buy outs...the better off the country is.

Trusting a politician with tax dollars is like trusting am alcoholic with booze or a drug addict with drugs.
History shows the GOP theory doesn't work. Except to make the rich much richer.

Cut taxes on the middle class first and see what happens to the economy. The middle class are the folks who actually buy stuff.
 
Re: Democrats were the ones pushing tax code changes in the 80's dude

Just exactly how does history show the GOP model doesn't work??
 
Re: Democrats were the ones pushing tax code changes in the 80's dude

Originally posted by Stevedangos:
Just exactly how does history show the GOP model doesn't work??
Um..




The richest 85 people in the world have report from Oxfam
ahead of the World Economic Forum at Davos. Is there a reason why the
world's powerful, gathering at the exclusive resort to sip cognac and
eat blinis, should care? Well, yes.

If one subscribes to the charitable view that neoliberal philosophy
was simply naive or misguided in thinking that "trickle down" would work
infinitely, then evidence that it doesn't, should be cause for concern.
It is a fundamental building block of supply-side economic theory - the
tool of choice these past few decades for those in charge to make
adjustments. The realisation that governments have been pulling at
economic levers which, for some time, have been attached to nothing,
should be a wake-up call to the deepest sleepers.

Even if one subscribes to the cynical view that the elite knew what
they were doing all along, observing that the "rising tide" is lifting
fewer and fewer boats and leaving more and more to rot in the sediment -
both at a personal and national level - must make most wonder "am I in
the right boat and is it big enough?" Concentration is rampant. Credit
Suisse estimates that the world will have 11 trillionaires within two generations.

It is not so much that the supply-side principle "if you build it,
they will come" is no longer true. It is more that we appear to have
passed a tipping point, where so much wealth has been concentrated at
the top, they no longer need bother to "build" anything. In short, it
has become more economically efficient to buy countries' economic policy
than to create value in order to sell it on. If one can control
government to favour the richest, while raising barriers for new
entrants, thus increasing their share of the pie exponentially, what is
the incentive to grow the pie?

This applies to both companies and individuals. Small business gets
clobbered by taxes and business rates, while big business turns around
and says to the state: "This is how much tax I fancy paying this year,
take it or leave it". The rich no longer create jobs, through a process
of consolidation, takeover and merger, they actually destroy them. Zero-hours contracts
are the way of the future; in a society that is hungry, desperate and
devoid of political engagement or unionism, why would anyone offer terms
and conditions that give individual workers any standing?


Advertisement
And
yet, the realisation must dawn soon - one hopes - that this model is
unsustainable because its effects are uncontrollable. The more unequal
we become as a society, the faster the top's earnings diverge from the bottom's.
"When so much of the purchasing power, so much of the economic gain,
goes to the very top," Bill Clinton's former labour secretary Robert
Reich explains in the film Inequality For All.
"There's simply not enough purchasing power in the rest of the
economy." At the same time, there is far too much loose cash sloshing
around at the top, leading to unwise risks and toxic investments. Wealth
inequality in the US was at its highest levels, historically, in 1928
and 2007, one year before its two biggest financial crises, notes Reich.
The base of the pyramid atrophies and begins to crumble.

Then why are most governments continuing to fiddle with supply-side
levers in order to revive the economy, when it is abundantly clear it
does not work? The simple answer is in two parts. First part: habit. The
second was perfectly expressed
by the creator of The Wire, David Simon: "That may be the ultimate
tragedy of capitalism in our time, that it has achieved its dominance
without regard to a social compact, without being connected to any other
metric for human progress."

We have come to measure, to an increasing extent, individuals'
success by their wealth, spending power and other assorted trappings. We
do the same with the economic success of governments; measure it by an
aggregated data set that fails to take into account wealth distribution,
educational achievement, innovation, or even the welfare and health of
the population they claim to represent. We must shift this perspective.
It will be the hardest, simplest thing we have ever had to do as a
species.
 
The Economic Recovery a Tax Act of 1982

Was also sponsored and introduced by DEMOCRATS

democrats passed it Regan just signed it
 
Re: The Economic Recovery a Tax Act of 1982

Originally posted by Stevedangos:
Was also sponsored and introduced by DEMOCRATS

democrats passed it Regan just signed it
He was a good dem and the God of the GOP.

Glad you're facing the truth.
 
Re: Democrats were the ones pushing tax code changes in the 80's dude


The issue isn't taxes collected as much as money spent. Both parties are spenders trying to appease people with other peoples tax dollars.
 
Re: Democrats were the ones pushing tax code changes in the 80's dude

Originally posted by WCS Coach:

The issue isn't taxes collected as much as money spent. Both parties are spenders trying to appease people with other peoples tax dollars.
That and one party likes to cut taxes while they're still spending. That's why we have deficits.
 
Re: Democrats were the ones pushing tax code changes in the 80's dude


Go back to the 80's and find me one Democrat that was pushing spending cuts when the taxes were cut.

He doesn't exist.
 
Re: Democrats were the ones pushing tax code changes in the 80's dude


Can we all agree the tax code is FUBAR?
 
Yep there is a lot of jealousy to go around.
11 teachers going to jail for possibly 20 years for faking test scores, but bankers who destroyed the economy and made thousands of people homeless, get what? Millions of dollars as part of golden parachutes.
Maybe they aren't jealous, they are just tired of not being treated fairly.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/biggest-outrage-atlanta-crazy-teacher-091500508.html;_ylt=AwrTHRU_Mh9VEEQA6YxXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTExbDBrcXNoBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMzBHZ0aWQDVUlDMV8xBHNlYwNzcg--
 
Re: Democrats were the ones pushing tax code changes in the 80's dude

Originally posted by WCS Coach:

Go back to the 80's and find me one Democrat that was pushing spending cuts when the taxes were cut.

He doesn't exist.
Go back and show me on GOPer that left us less deficit than he started with.

Ike maybe?
 
Re: Democrats were the ones pushing tax code changes in the 80's dude


You forgot the word "gracious" before admission
3dgrin.r191677.gif
. I'll give you that one, but the overall point is made with that article. As a party, the Dems were more than happy to keep spending (as they usually are).

I'll even give Veer his point about the Republicans and their spending, and that again is the problem. Everyone wants to keep spending money we shouldn't be spending on things we shouldn't be spending money on.
 
Re: Democrats were the ones pushing tax code changes in the 80's dude

There is lots of good empirical data on the low economic value of marginal tax cuts on the rich at the marginal rates in the U.S. it's nowhere near as meaningful as a change in taxation of the poor or middle class.
 
agman hijacked this thread to spew his nonsense that he wants to talk about.

We can debate and bitch all we want about the tax codes. One thing is certain - it will always favor the rich and corporations. Why? Congress makes the laws and special interests run Congress. This will never change.
This post was edited on 4/4 7:44 AM by Bogey Man
 
How is it that I "hijacked this thread" by commenting on the very issue this thread was about?
 
Originally posted by Bogey Man:

agman hijacked this thread to spew his nonsense that he wants to talk about.

We can debate and bitch all we want about the tax codes. One thing is certain - it will always favor the rich and corporations. Why? Congress makes the laws and special interests run Congress. This will never change.
This post was edited on 4/4 7:44 AM by Bogey Man
Amen.
 
Re: Democrats were the ones pushing tax code changes in the 80's dude


Pretty sure that describes it. What it also does is allow career criminals.....eerrrr I mean politicians, to live off hard working taxpayers. They take our tax dollars and spend them to lock in votes for their re-election. Both parties are guilty, and when someone tries to step out of line they are called names like tea baggers.

The truth is this country is going to have to go through some pain to get fixed and there are very few people willing to do that.

Taxes would have to remain high for a while, but spending in ALL areas would have to be cut. That is the pain no one wants to deal with.
 
What conservatives don't get is its not just a spending problem. To truly deal with the debt, you have to raise revenues.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Re: Democrats were the ones pushing tax code changes in the 80's dude

The tea parties were no different. They have their backers too.
 
I understand that part of this is simply your youth, but once you work for a few decades and paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes to a government that NEVER has enough money, you may come to understand.

Yes, at this point they may have to raise revenues, but given their track record it will not make a dent in the debt. You simply can't continue to raise spending.
 
debt was generally managed fine until bush 2 and reagan cut taxes and spent without abandon.

Seriously when has the U.S. had a fiscal crisis related to debt? What is the history of debt to GDP? There's basically no case to be made that the U.S. was in some sort of debt crisis at any point in recent history due to the history of solid management of the budget.

There are only two real crises that have come in the post WW2 era:

Short term need to fix the hole but in the budget by bush's wars and tax cuts

Long term need to address Medicare and Medicaid spending caused by medical inflation and the aging of our society.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT