Big 8 to become Big Double 8?

[Mister_Wizard]

Am hearing CJ and Bolivar may be joining the Big 8, which would expand it to 16 teams. What might this look like? Possibly one division for most sports, but for football might we see the Big 8 West and Big 8 East become the Big 8 Large and Big 8 Small?

Large (all Class 4 teams)
Bolivar
Carl Junction
Marshfield
McDonald County
Monett
Nevada
Rogersville

Class 2 and 3 Strongest Programs of Late
Lamar, Seneca, Mt. Vernon, Reeds Spring, Cassville

Plus other current members Aurora, East Newton, Hollister, Springfield Catholic

No disrespect intended for anyone - would be interesting to see how they would divvy this up for football. I think a yearly promotion/demotion kind of process would be interesting and bold - start with 8 largest in one division in year one, and then each year promote the top two records from the smaller division and demote the bottom two from the upper division.

One additional scheduling idea: play your 7 division opponents, plus one out of division rivalry game. Week 9 is reserved for Large #1 vs Small #1, #2 vs 2 and so on down to large 8 versus small 8.

I would also offer that ADs should work together for the common good. For example, everyone knows Lamar may be the best of this entire group. So assuming they wanted in the Large right off the bat, they would abstain and the other 15 ADs would vote whether to move the 8th largest school down to the Smaller division right off the bat, and replace them in the Large with Lamar. Or let the larger ADs volunteer if they know their school might be better off in the first year playing down.

It could all be worked out, and then automated from year two on.

(Apologies, didn’t mean for this to get so long)

 

[Arcola]

I really hope this doesn’t happen.

 

[mizzoutiger13]

Interesting to be sure. Is this potentially next school year?

 

[AC100]

This would solve part of the reason that CJ left the Big 8 to begin with. The issue with doing this now is CJ has a few really good classes coming up and they will do well in the COC.

 

[r14veer]

This would be great for CJ in particular, but really all would benefit.

 

[Mister_Wizard]

When CJ left the Big 8, nearly a decade ago already, they were the only Class 4 school. In this scenario the Big 8 would have 7 Class 4 schools, and some great programs in the smaller classes of the Big 8 too.

This is the right fit for them, rather than being the only Class 4 school in the COC which is full of Class 5’s and a few Class 6’s.

 

[BearsCountry]

Would Bolivar vs Monett be the first game of the year and kick off that old rivalry game once again

 

[Arcola]

It possibly would be a good fit if they change the format to a small and large division. If they don’t do that then no thank you.
I know it’s not CJ or Bolivars fault but once again they are both looking to be the larger schools in the conference.

 

[mizzoutiger13]

Republic is likely growing to Class 6 in the next few cycles. I don’t think CJ expected to be in a conference with four Class 6 schools when they signed up for the COC

 

[MoSooner69]

Cant do the #1 vs #1 , #2 vs #2 in football.... there was talk of doing that when the current version of the Big 8 was started and was told NO

 

[AC100]

As bad as playing class 6 schools may be for CJ playing class 2 and 3 schools is worse.

 

[Mister_Wizard]

Cant do the #1 vs #1 , #2 vs #2 in football.... there was talk of doing that when the current version of the Big 8 was started and was told NO

Figured that was the case. So just base next year’s schedule on the previous year's finishes. Or projections.

 

[Arcola]

Republic is likely growing to Class 6 in the next few cycles. I don’t think CJ expected to be in a conference with four Class 6 schools when they signed up for the COC

I’m the opposite view of that. I think they knew what they was getting into.

 

[HAWKS4LIFE]

This would solve part of the reason that CJ left the Big 8 to begin with. The issue with doing this now is CJ has a few really good classes coming up and they will do well in the COC.

They have 1 good class in the next 3 years!

 

[bullitpdq68]

Sort of reminds me of the old Big 13, they use to put the largest enrollments in one division and the smallest in the next. Then you would cross bracket. But when Webb came back after being in the Ozark conference they were going to move Aurora in to the largest to have 7 and 7, Well that would move them away from thier natural rivals of Monett and Mt Vernon. Yep hard to believe at one time Aurora was way bigger than Monett. Anyways everything blew up so they just split and created the Big 8 and Big 6 and we still cross bracketed. Monett would play Neosho and Webb city for several more years.

 

[MoSooner69]

Interested to see if this plays out, have heard nothing about it. Not sure any of the old COC small schools want anything to do with Bolvar. That is a good part of the reason they are where they are now.

 

[J. Kane]

Interested to see if this plays out, have heard nothing about it. Not sure any of the old COC small schools want anything to do with Bolvar. That is a good part of the reason they are where they are now.

All those schools would have one question for Bolivar

 

[bullitpdq68]

Interested to see if this plays out, have heard nothing about it. Not sure any of the old COC small schools want anything to do with Bolvar. That is a good part of the reason they are where they are now.

Yeah I think last time it was the COC schools that had an issue with Bolivar, I had heard none of the Big 8's did they had more questions about Catholic. Bolivar makes a lot of sense and in a way so does CJ for the bigger schools like Monett Marshfield Mac County and Rogersville. But like you have have not heard anything beside CJ possible see if there is any interest in rejoining. But really if you go to CJ there are alot of homes being built, makes you wonder if they will still out grow the conference. And it has been good for them in other sports.

 

[AC100]

When CJ joined they had a really good football team. Sometimes it is hard to imagine life when that won't be true. OTOH it isn't like they have ever come close to finishing last. Why no talk of Branson leaving?

 

[bullitpdq68]

When CJ joined they had a really good football team. Sometimes it is hard to imagine life when that won't be true. OTOH it isn't like they have ever come close to finishing last. Why no talk of Branson leaving?

Yeah looks like Branson only had 2 wins between Varsity, JV and freshmen. Looks like they are going to be bad for awhile.

 

[BearsCountry]

When CJ joined they had a really good football team. Sometimes it is hard to imagine life when that won't be true. OTOH it isn't like they have ever come close to finishing last. Why no talk of Branson leaving?

They know they are in the right place even if their recent record doesn't reflect that.

 

[HoopsTournament]

Cant do the #1 vs #1 , #2 vs #2 in football.... there was talk of doing that when the current version of the Big 8 was started and was told NO

GRC does that in Basketball. Strange that it is not allowed in football.

 

[golfindude]

They might as well screw it up again. WTH is it with peeps needing to always change things.

 

[CoachFox-ScreamingEagles]

Interested to see if this plays out, have heard nothing about it. Not sure any of the old COC small schools want anything to do with Bolvar. That is a good part of the reason they are where they are now.

Ill be honest, I just dont think unless a certain superintendent returns as head coach that Bolivar will compete well in this. The Big 8 is just a different creature. In 2006 Bolivar was 9-0 going against an 8-0 Mount Vernon ( one game ommited due to a situation when Cassville and Mt vernon was scheduled to play.

Mt Vernon ran Midline with Tomas Brock down Bolivars throat and clocked Bolivar in Bolivar. The next year Mt VErnon had Kellen Cox at qb and beat Bolivar by two touchdowns. I just dont seeing Bolivar fitting in the big 8.

 

[AC100]

I don't see CJ making a change for several years. I think they will wait until the good classes that are coming up graduate.

 

[sw5890]

I just don't see much for CJ here other than more travel and maybe a few more wins against smaller schools. I get that CJ is the smallest in the COC but in football, the sport that seems to be everyone's benchmark - they have yet to ever be the least competitive program. I don't believe they have ever finished worse than 7th or 8th. They have beaten I believe everyone except Joplin at least once. Outside of that basketball, softball, track, volleyball, I believe they hold their own as well. As far as I know they are at least competitive in most things. I just don't see them wanting to trade WC and Carthage and even Joplin in many if not most sports for trips to Marshfield, 100 miles away. Or Bolivar which is like Willard + 20 minutes.

If you looked at the entire package of sports and hid the names I doubt you could see much difference between CJ and Carthage and several others. And like I said even in football they definitely are not the least competitive.

 

[AC100]

I agree. I understand that last year's football team would have had a much better record in the Big 8 but things go in cycles so just stay for the next 5 years and see what happens.

 

[Want2win]

Carl Junction COC wins by sport in 2022-2023
Football- 3 varsity, 0 JV, 1 Freshman
Girls Softball Fall- 0
Boys Soccer- 0
Volleyball- 8
Girls Tennis- 9
Boys Wrestling COC tournament finished 3rd
Girls Wrestling COC tournament finished 7th
Boys Basketball- 1
Girls Basketball- all of them

So outside of Boys Wrestling, Volleyball and Girls Basketball Carl Junction doesn't compete in the COC well at all.

 

[AC100]

Softball and boys soccer would have struggled in any league. Girls swimming finished 2nd. Boys basketball would have won more games in the Big 8.

 

[bullitpdq68]

East Newton was showing interest in leaving the conference there for a while, as they were inquiring about the possibility of joining some smaller conference. However I don't think any of those conferences are interested in them joining at this time or in the future, and I don't know if East Newton now wants out? So with that being the case I am sure the current conference members are happy to stay the course. But should in the future a member leave the conference Then I would expect that the conference would want to keep both sides at an even number. But outside of that I don't think there is any interest in expanding.

 

[Want2win]

Softball and boys soccer would have struggled in any league. Girls swimming finished 2nd. Boys basketball would have won more games in the Big 8.

Softball went 4-1 against Big 8 teams.

 

[AC100]

That is actually surprising to me but beating smaller schools is not interesting to me.

 

[Want2win]

Agreed! I don’t think the big 8 is the place for them, but neither is the COC. I think all the Springfield area class 4 schools Nevada, west plains, Marshfield, Mac County, Monett and Webb City I think needs to be a conference.

 

[Want2win]

That is actually surprising to me but beating smaller schools is not interesting to me.

That is how everyone in the COC should feel about playing Carl Junction.

 

[bullitpdq68]

Agreed! I don’t think the big 8 is the place for them, but neither is the COC. I think all the Springfield area class 4 schools Nevada, west plains, Marshfield, Mac County, Monett and Webb City I think needs to be a conference.

Monett Webb City Mac County and Nevada along with CJ Carthage and several others were in a conference together together at one time all the way to maybe 81, that conference split and formed the big 8 and the Big 6 adding Joplin Memorial to the big 6. for years those schools would all cross conference. Then in the 90's Webb just became well Webb and many of the Big 8 school were no longer playing them. but it wasn't uncommon for East Newton Mount Vernon Monett Seneca to play Webb back in the 80's after the conference split.
I just don't see any of those joining back up. Monett struggles to get kids out, and Mac County can face the same thing. West Plains is just to far, for travel that is a long trip there especially if you want to add Webb or even Nevada, cannot imagine that bus trip for JV and freshmen on a Monday night.

 

[AC100]

Webb would never leave the COC to go to a weaker football conference. Your league really only matters in football. The other sports have more non conference games than conference games anyway.

 

[sw5890]

Monett Webb City Mac County and Nevada along with CJ Carthage and several others were in a conference together together at one time all the way to maybe 81, that conference split and formed the big 8 and the Big 6 adding Joplin Memorial to the big 6. for years those schools would all cross conference. Then in the 90's Webb just became well Webb and many of the Big 8 school were no longer playing them. but it wasn't uncommon for East Newton Mount Vernon Monett Seneca to play Webb back in the 80's after the conference split.
I just don't see any of those joining back up. Monett struggles to get kids out, and Mac County can face the same thing. West Plains is just to far, for travel that is a long trip there especially if you want to add Webb or even Nevada, cannot imagine that bus trip for JV and freshmen on a Monday night.

I mentioned awhile back that in my opinion we are getting closer to a point where a re-brand of the old Southwest Conference starts to make sense again even though I am not in a hurry to break up the COC.

Nevada, McDonald Co, Carthage, CJ, Webb City, Neosho, and I would include Joplin too. That's 7 schools.

Football might be a tough selling point for the best and worst on this list BUT it leaves a few open slights for WC to schedule a former COC rival or Tulsa Union or a school in Pittsburg, be it PSU or PHS. Neosho can try to schedule Seneca or Quapaw. In every other sport I think this could make more sense than the COC and be less travel.

 

[AC100]

I don't think anyone would leave the COC unless they finished last in football several years in a row. Every other sport can schedule whoever they want for 2/3rds of their games.

 

[sw5890]

I don't think anyone would leave the COC unless they finished last in football several years in a row. Every other sport can schedule whoever they want for 2/3rds of their games.

No I don't think so either. After whoever it was posted the data on Carl Junction (which surprised me actually) I wasted my lunch break anazlying some data regarding schools competitiveness in the COC to see who if anyone really doesn't belong. The results were pretty interesting, not all of my perceptions turned out to be correct.

 

[MoSooner69]

Hopefully we get to the point where Conferences dont matter in Football anyway. Where you play your district opponents and get to schedule two or three additional to keep rivalries alive, like most states around us.