Afghanistan

[kaskaskiakid]

Kabul is Hours from falling and the Taliban is rapidly taking over, No big surprise, They could wait for the US withdrawal forever. I have favored getting out of the Middle East civil wars for a long time. We cannot win those wars or be their police forever.

Now what? Obviously the Afghan army can't hold back the Taliban. No doubt the Taliban will again expand their terrorism efforts.

Damned if we do, damned if we don't. Someday, the powder keg will explode.

 

[Pancho and Lefty]

Kabul is Hours from falling and the Taliban is rapidly taking over, No big surprise, They could wait for the US withdrawal forever. I have favored getting out of the Middle East civil wars for a long time. We cannot win those wars or be their police forever.

Now what? Obviously the Afghan army can't hold back the Taliban. No doubt the Taliban will again expand their terrorism efforts.

Damned if we do, damned if we don't. Someday, the powder keg will explode.

Absolutely, they were fighting way before we were there, while we were there, and after we leave. No amount of time, effort, and money will change that.

 

[3Rfan]

Kabul is Hours from falling and the Taliban is rapidly taking over, No big surprise, They could wait for the US withdrawal forever. I have favored getting out of the Middle East civil wars for a long time. We cannot win those wars or be their police forever.

Now what? Obviously the Afghan army can't hold back the Taliban. No doubt the Taliban will again expand their terrorism efforts.

Damned if we do, damned if we don't. Someday, the powder keg will explode.

It happened today, the Taliban has taken over every government building in Kabul. It wouldn't matter if we stayed there another 20 years, whenever we left the Afghan army would lay down the weapons we gave them and run. We should have at least left the day after Bin Laden was killed we were not supposed to be there to protect their government or their women's rights, that's their job. Their military leaders stole millions of dollars, probably hundreds of million that was intended to help them fight.

 

[MGHS]

It happened today, the Taliban has taken over every government building in Kabul. It wouldn't matter if we stayed there another 20 years, whenever we left the Afghan army would lay down the weapons we gave them and run. We should have at least left the day after Bin Laden was killed we were not supposed to be there to protect their government or their women's rights, that's their job. Their military leaders stole millions of dollars, probably hundreds of million that was intended to help them fight.

While I don't disagree that it's not our job to prop up the Afghan gov. and it's people....but we did make a deal to do so and we should at least try and honor that deal. The problem is we won't commit full scale to a culture change from top down. We did this in WW11 with the hardcore Nazi elite.

Now all that money that was spent will be for naught. Chaos and terror will reign and bringing instability to the region again which won't be a good thing for the world community.

Funny thing is the Leftist elites are now turning on Biden on this issue which is delicious.

‘Clearly botched’: Biden White House under assault on Afghanistan drawdown

Biden’s foreign policy experience fails him as the Taliban seize Kabul far sooner than expected.

www.politico.com

Biden’s Betrayal of Afghans Will Live in Infamy

Our abandonment of the Afghans who helped us, counted on us, and staked their lives on us is a final, gratuitous shame that we could have avoided.

www.theatlantic.com

When the Atlantic and Politico are whizzing on you it's clear that the Leftist are MAD.

I just hope they stop all the refugee's from coming here.....

 

[bullitpdq68]

You have to want to fight for your freedom, it is clear the Afghan People are not yet willing to do that. I don't think if we had stayed another 10 years that would have changed.

 

[kaskaskiakid]

A country of 40 million people can't defend itself and defeat a civilian militia of 200,000.

 

[MGHS]

You have to want to fight for your freedom, it is clear the Afghan People are not yet willing to do that. I don't think if we had stayed another 10 years that would have changed.

You do realize we trained their military to reflect our model and to rely on air power for support and resupply and Biden and his handlers forced out the contractors who had the expertise to fix and maintain their Air Force. Once it was crippled then a modern army is pretty ineffective. Can’t fight with out food and Ammo.
Add in that now the Terrorist have taken control of Billions of our taxpayer funded arsenal.
Even Obama and Trump who both claimed they’d pull us out didn’t do so because maintaining a few thousand support troops and contractors and spending less than 1% of our budget to keep a foothold in a terror hot spot was worth it. Both even entered into negotiations with the Taliban.

Biden and his cronies ignored the advise of all the Dept. advisories and just started a disorderly withdraw of epic failure.

This could of been done right like other troop draw downs in that region …but Biden and his gang don’t do right.

 

[Pancho and Lefty]

You do realize we trained their military to reflect our model and to rely on air power for support and resupply and Biden and his handlers forced out the contractors who had the expertise to fix and maintain their Air Force. Once it was crippled then a modern army is pretty ineffective. Can’t fight with out food and Ammo.
Add in that now the Terrorist have taken control of Billions of our taxpayer funded arsenal.
Even Obama and Trump who both claimed they’d pull us out didn’t do so because maintaining a few thousand support troops and contractors and spending less than 1% of our budget to keep a foothold in a terror hot spot was worth it. Both even entered into negotiations with the Taliban.

Biden and his cronies ignored the advise of all the Dept. advisories and just started a disorderly withdraw of epic failure.

This could of been done right like other troop draw downs in that region …but Biden and his gang don’t do right.

Can you imagine what the billions of dollars that we have spent over there could have done to combat hunger, homelessness, health care, etc. right here at home?

 

[bullitpdq68]

You do realize we trained their military to reflect our model and to rely on air power for support and resupply and Biden and his handlers forced out the contractors who had the expertise to fix and maintain their Air Force. Once it was crippled then a modern army is pretty ineffective. Can’t fight with out food and Ammo.
Add in that now the Terrorist have taken control of Billions of our taxpayer funded arsenal.
Even Obama and Trump who both claimed they’d pull us out didn’t do so because maintaining a few thousand support troops and contractors and spending less than 1% of our budget to keep a foothold in a terror hot spot was worth it. Both even entered into negotiations with the Taliban.

Biden and his cronies ignored the advise of all the Dept. advisories and just started a disorderly withdraw of epic failure.

This could of been done right like other troop draw downs in that region …but Biden and his gang don’t do right.

We never went over there to stay....Blame Biden all you want I don't care, Blame Trump, blame Obama, …at some point we were going to have to leave and no matter what the same thing was going to happen.


If you want freedom, you have to be willing to fight and die for it, many Afghan soldiers laid down thier arms as the Taliban approached never firing a shoot. I know many Friends who went over there and they have said the same thing. The Afghan people just don't have the stomach to fight and probable never would be ready with out our backing. We cannot always be the world police. We went over there and tried to help rebuild after... how long is long enough? But that is just my opinion and you have yours.

 

[HomeyR]

We never went over there to stay....Blame Biden all you want I don't care, Blame Trump, blame Obama, …at some point we were going to have to leave and no matter what the same thing was going to happen.


If you want freedom, you have to be willing to fight and die for it, many Afghan soldiers laid down thier arms as the Taliban approached never firing a shoot. I know many Friends who went over there and they have said the same thing. The Afghan people just don't have the stomach to fight and probable never would be ready with out our backing. We cannot always be the world police. We went over there and tried to help rebuild after... how long is long enough? But that is just my opinion and you have yours.

I agree with you Bullit. While our departure could have been better organized, a lot of the criticism of Biden is purely political. Where was the criticism of Trump when he ran out on the Kurds in Iraq ? Hell he wanted to host the Taliban leadership at Camp David.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

I agree with you Bullit. While our departure could have been better organized, a lot of the criticism of Biden is purely political. Where was the criticism of Trump when he ran out on the Kurds in Iraq ? Hell he wanted to host the Taliban leadership at Camp David.

He let the current leader of the Taliban go from prison.
We needed to get out.
Good post

 

[Cheetah King]

I wonder if the Afghan women’s soccer team will make as much as the men’s team now?

 

[MGHS]

Can you imagine what the billions of dollars that we have spent over there could have done to combat hunger, homelessness, health care, etc. right here at home?

lol that doesn’t exist here we have plenty of resources going to that shart …if you are hungry that is because of irresponsibility and laziness. If you are homeless then in most cases the decades of substance abuse have eroded the organic hard drive. So that’s on them and a waste of hard earned money. People need to stop living off the sweat of the labors of others.

 

[MGHS]

I agree with you Bullit. While our departure could have been better organized, a lot of the criticism of Biden is purely political. Where was the criticism of Trump when he ran out on the Kurds in Iraq ? Hell he wanted to host the Taliban leadership at Camp David.

Trump,Obama and Bush’s policies where not great…but keeping a foothold in the region and keeping the nation from becoming a full on Islamic state was way better than Biden pulling out in a disorderly manner. We will eventually have to refight this war again.

 

[MGHS]

We never went over there to stay....Blame Biden all you want I don't care, Blame Trump, blame Obama, …at some point we were going to have to leave and no matter what the same thing was going to happen.


If you want freedom, you have to be willing to fight and die for it, many Afghan soldiers laid down thier arms as the Taliban approached never firing a shoot. I know many Friends who went over there and they have said the same thing. The Afghan people just don't have the stomach to fight and probable never would be ready with out our backing. We cannot always be the world police. We went over there and tried to help rebuild after... how long is long enough? But that is just my opinion and you have yours.

We clearly went over to stay….do you not think that we knew that they would never fight without our backing and support. Heck that is why the Black ops Alphabet dept. funneled money and bribed both sides.
I blame Trump/Bush/Obama but Biden really fudged this up.

 

[kaskaskiakid]

I blame Trump/Bush/Obama but Biden really fudged this up.

There was no way the withdrawal would end up well, no matter who was president. We should have left after killing Bin Laden. That was the mission. It is/was time for the Afghan army and people to sink or swim! We'll get our people out by the end of the month. After 20 years, it was time to get out!!

Yes, we will likely meet the Taliban again!!

 

[MGHS]

Bin Laden was the catalyst and excuse.....propping up a pro or a controlled gov. was always the plan. If that wasn't why go? Bin Laden death did nothing as far as slowing down the Crazy's over there.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Bin Laden was the catalyst and excuse.....propping up a pro or a controlled gov. was always the plan. If that wasn't why go? Bin Laden death did nothing as far as slowing down the Crazy's over there.

nor over here obviously

 

[Pancho and Lefty]

Talked with a military officer, they said that the plan that Trump had and the plan (or lack of) that was implemented just recently were nothing alike. This was from someone who had done two tours over there as well.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Talked with a military officer, they said that the plan that Trump had and the plan (or lack of) that was implemented just recently were nothing alike. This was from someone who had done two tours over there as well.

I'd like to see both plans myself to compare/contrast.
That is a valuable skill being taught in districts across our fine state.

 

[Pancho and Lefty]

I'd like to see both plans myself to compare/contrast.
That is a valuable skill being taught in districts across our fine state.

He is a very level headed guy. Not extreme right wing or anything like that. Couldn't believe the amount of money in equipment, tech, etc. that was just gone. What a mess all the way around.

 

[bullitpdq68]

Talked with a military officer, they said that the plan that Trump had and the plan (or lack of) that was implemented just recently were nothing alike. This was from someone who had done two tours over there as well.

Its funny how we all know someone in the military and every one of their opinions is different. Even a buddy of mine who is 25 years in says there was never going to be a good way out...Like ripping off a bandaid it was going to hurt one way or the other. And most upper brass knew it.

 

[Pancho and Lefty]

I'd like to see both plans myself to compare/contrast.
That is a valuable skill being taught in districts across our fine state.

He is a very level headed guy. Not extreme right wing or anything like that. Couldn't believe the amount of money in equipment, tech, etc. that was just gone. What a mess all the way around.

Its funny how we all know someone in the military and every one of their opinions is different. Even a buddy of mine who is 25 years in says there was never going to be a good way out...Like ripping off a bandaid it was going to hurt one way or the other. And most upper brass knew it.

I think most would agree that it was going to be a mess and there would be some chaos. His point was there was a more detailed plan, and that isn't what was implemented. I think a lot have agreed that we were there too long or shouldn't have been there at all. At the least only there to fight terrorist, not so involved in other things. I said a while back they have fought for hundreds of years, and will continue to do so. I don't believe that it was a big surprise that things went bad so quickly.

 

[Expect2Win]

As bad as this has been. We have gotten 70,000 people out and no American has died.

 

[kaskaskiakid]

As bad as this has been. We have gotten 70,000 people out and no American has died.

Yep, sensationalized press and repubs need the current "big story". Episode will be forgotten in 6 months. Afghans are going to have to fight their own war.

 

[3Rfan]

He is a very level headed guy. Not extreme right wing or anything like that. Couldn't believe the amount of money in equipment, tech, etc. that was just gone. What a mess all the way around.

I think most would agree that it was going to be a mess and there would be some chaos. His point was there was a more detailed plan, and that isn't what was implemented. I think a lot have agreed that we were there too long or shouldn't have been there at all. At the least only there to fight terrorist, not so involved in other things. I said a while back they have fought for hundreds of years, and will continue to do so. I don't believe that it was a big surprise that things went bad so quickly.

Those folks have outlasted Russia and anyone else who goes messin around there. Too bad their wussy boy army now couldn't stay and fight for their own government this time.

 

[MGHS]

He is a very level headed guy. Not extreme right wing or anything like that. Couldn't believe the amount of money in equipment, tech, etc. that was just gone. What a mess all the way around.

I think most would agree that it was going to be a mess and there would be some chaos. His point was there was a more detailed plan, and that isn't what was implemented. I think a lot have agreed that we were there too long or shouldn't have been there at all. At the least only there to fight terrorist, not so involved in other things. I said a while back they have fought for hundreds of years, and will continue to do so. I don't believe that it was a big surprise that things went bad so quickly.

You get different view points from different MOS.....I can tell you this the opinions from Grunts/Infantry compared to the Brass and Support troops is vastly different on a lot of things.


But with that said all the Infantry I know felt that we had to stay there for generations to actually change the culture and westernize them. The Brass and Politicians had zero interest for the most part in that plan. If that wasn't the plan then having the stomach to take out all the Religious leaders and warlords and all their cohorts was the only other option. Which again wouldn't go down well with the press and some of the public.

 

[hb1025]

It just got uglier.

 

[3Rfan]

Along with one of the ugliest performances of a president in US history

What happened to Trump's grand agreement with the Taliban? He made the agreement with them and they ain't holding up their part of the deal. How did the suicide bomber get past their checkpoints?

 

[MGHS]

What happened to Trump's grand agreement with the Taliban? He made the agreement with them and they ain't holding up their part of the deal. How did the suicide bomber get past their checkpoints?

Biden people are in control of this, his generals, his advisors and under his watch. This is not Trumps fault, Biden had full authority to alter or change the deal and plan. Biden literally pulled out troops and then had to send more back in.

I get it you supported Biden, you are blindly following and supporting him. I supported Trump but not blindly. I freely admitted that the deal with the Taliban was suspect, I freely admitted he was a womanizing, dbag with suspect character traits. But I did like how his people actually came up with policy and enacted said policies. I know full well that Trump didn't come up with the polices I liked. He just signed off on them.

I wonder why you can't see that Biden and His handlers have been a huge failure so far. He is bombing on the economic front, he has mishandled the Border and the supreme court ruled against him. Even though he was handed all the tools, a warp speed ready made vax, data, and resources to combat C19 more than a 1/3 of the deaths have come under his control.

Sure 87% of Dem's still are loving him so good....but only 32% of independents are for him now....and that is with the MSM mostly shilling for him. But he is upside down on immigration and the economy in the polls. His C19 rating is 50%. Jeez 62^ disapprove of his withdrawal plan, I guess you are in the 38%. Now you know my thoughts on polls on how people vote....but in general on opinion polls they do seem to have a bit more accuracy.

 

[bullitpdq68]

Biden people are in control of this, his generals, his advisors and under his watch. This is not Trumps fault, Biden had full authority to alter or change the deal and plan. Biden literally pulled out troops and then had to send more back in.

I get it you supported Biden, you are blindly following and supporting him. I supported Trump but not blindly. I freely admitted that the deal with the Taliban was suspect, I freely admitted he was a womanizing, dbag with suspect character traits. But I did like how his people actually came up with policy and enacted said policies. I know full well that Trump didn't come up with the polices I liked. He just signed off on them.

I wonder why you can't see that Biden and His handlers have been a huge failure so far. He is bombing on the economic front, he has mishandled the Border and the supreme court ruled against him. Even though he was handed all the tools, a warp speed ready made vax, data, and resources to combat C19 more than a 1/3 of the deaths have come under his control.

Sure 87% of Dem's still are loving him so good....but only 32% of independents are for him now....and that is with the MSM mostly shilling for him. But he is upside down on immigration and the economy in the polls. His C19 rating is 50%. Jeez 62^ disapprove of his withdrawal plan, I guess you are in the 38%. Now you know my thoughts on polls on how people vote....but in general on opinion polls they do seem to have a bit more accuracy.

I really wish Trump would have won, Because even had he won we would still have $2.79 gas, we would still have shortage we would still have high inflation. Many of the things that are going on right now have nothing todo with Biden or his policies yet, it has been to short of time for them to actually take place and us feel the affect. Most of the price increases we are feeling is because we have started back up a hugh economy people want to get out people want things, I have a freind who owns a pool bussiness in the last year and a half he has put in more pools than he did in the last 8 years combined, and he could put in way more if he could find people to help!! Missouri & Arkansas have cut off the extra unemployeement benefits still we have a labor shortage nothing has changed. We have a labor shortage because over 1 million baby boomers decided not return to the work force, many two income families found out that they really don't need two people working so many of them have not returned, We have freinds who's wives and one husband is not returning back to work they found out they can live just fine with one income they don't need two anymore. The pandemic has changed the lives of many people some for the better, many don't want to rejone the rat race they found out they don't have too.

All Trump would have done differently is Blame China and other countries for high inflation and shortage of goods saying they were trying to screw the American people and his base would have ate it up!!! I can hear him now and even how he would over pronounce China....

All that being said I voted for tRump and no I am not happy with all that Biden has done either. But I still believe tRump would have pulled us out of Afganistan and the same things would be going on the only difference would be is his base would be saying yep time to leave. Probable the biggest thing Biden has changed was the border...but really with the labor shortages going on bring them people on maybe they want to work!!! Lord knows my local micky D's could use them right about now.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Along with one of the ugliest performances of a presi

I really wish Trump would have won, Because even had he won we would still have $2.79 gas, we would still have shortage we would still have high inflation. Many of the things that are going on right now have nothing todo with Biden or his policies yet, it has been to short of time for them to actually take place and us feel the affect. Most of the price increases we are feeling is because we have started back up a hugh economy people want to get out people want things, I have a freind who owns a pool bussiness in the last year and a half he has put in more pools than he did in the last 8 years combined, and he could put in way more if he could find people to help!! Missouri & Arkansas have cut off the extra unemployeement benefits still we have a labor shortage nothing has changed. We have a labor shortage because over 1 million baby boomers decided not return to the work force, many two income families found out that they really don't need two people working so many of them have not returned, We have freinds who's wives and one husband is not returning back to work they found out they can live just fine with one income they don't need two anymore. The pandemic has changed the lives of many people some for the better, many don't want to rejone the rat race they found out they don't have too.

All Trump would have done differently is Blame China and other countries for high inflation and shortage of goods saying they were trying to screw the American people and his base would have ate it up!!! I can hear him now and even how he would over pronounce China....

All that being said I voted for tRump and no I am not happy with all that Biden has done either. But I still believe tRump would have pulled us out of Afganistan and the same things would be going on the only difference would be is his base would be saying yep time to leave. Probable the biggest thing Biden has changed was the border...but really with the labor shortages going on bring them people on maybe they want to work!!! Lord knows my local micky D's could use them right about now.

probably the best post on this board in a long time.

Well said.

 

[MGHS]

I really wish Trump would have won, Because even had he won we would still have $2.79 gas, we would still have shortage we would still have high inflation. Many of the things that are going on right now have nothing todo with Biden or his policies yet, it has been to short of time for them to actually take place and us feel the affect. Most of the price increases we are feeling is because we have started back up a hugh economy people want to get out people want things, I have a freind who owns a pool bussiness in the last year and a half he has put in more pools than he did in the last 8 years combined, and he could put in way more if he could find people to help!! Missouri & Arkansas have cut off the extra unemployeement benefits still we have a labor shortage nothing has changed. We have a labor shortage because over 1 million baby boomers decided not return to the work force, many two income families found out that they really don't need two people working so many of them have not returned, We have freinds who's wives and one husband is not returning back to work they found out they can live just fine with one income they don't need two anymore. The pandemic has changed the lives of many people some for the better, many don't want to rejone the rat race they found out they don't have too.

All Trump would have done differently is Blame China and other countries for high inflation and shortage of goods saying they were trying to screw the American people and his base would have ate it up!!! I can hear him now and even how he would over pronounce China....

All that being said I voted for tRump and no I am not happy with all that Biden has done either. But I still believe tRump would have pulled us out of Afganistan and the same things would be going on the only difference would be is his base would be saying yep time to leave. Probable the biggest thing Biden has changed was the border...but really with the labor shortages going on bring them people on maybe they want to work!!! Lord knows my local micky D's could use them right about now.

Many in his base are glad we left.....I think his people would of done a better job of removing the U.S. from Afghan soil. Biden just cut bait and figured that it wouldn't implode right now, that he had a grace period of months maybe even a year. If that would of happened it would be a nonevent for everyone.

And I agree some of the economic stuff would still be happening but I think it would not be at the level that it is now and what it will be. Biden isn't going to instill confidence in anyone in the business investment sector.

 

[kaskaskiakid]

Afghanistan will be old news in 2 months. Sensationalized media and Trumpers making the event bigger than it is, and the news will move on to the next big story in a few weeks. My condolences to the 2,500 families of soldiers who died in Afghan. The mission was over when we killed Bin Laden. Please, can we now stay out of civil wars in the Middle East?

 

[Expect2Win]

Afghanistan will be old news in 2 months. Sensationalized media and Trumpers making the event bigger than it is, and the news will move on to the next big story in a few weeks.

No, it won't. The republicans will do what they always do, whine and cry incessantly. This will be his Benghazi.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Yep, the left still won't stop whining and crying about the mean orange man. Go ahead and downplay your front man's failures. We needed out, but not in such a pathetic manner

Moved over 100k out in last couple of weeks. Think there are 300ish left and most if not all of those don't want to leave.

ZERO US citizen casualties.
Losing those 13 marines was horrible but that was going to happen no matter who was in the WH. Then, of course, their deaths were politicized before end of day.

THAT is the problem with our nation.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Sounds like your whining about things being politicized. Are you joking around or being outright hypocritical? Maybe your TDS has transformed into selective amnesia

You don't do it to dead Marines.

 

[Expect2Win]

Sounds like your whining about things being politicized. Are you joking around or being outright hypocritical? Maybe your TDS has transformed into selective amnesia

Which part is selective amnesia for veer? The agreement to get out of there put forth by the Biden Administration? Or the releasing of the leader of the Taliban?

 

[Veer2Eternity]

How long will the blame trump card be used for the failures of your puppet? Come on man! Surely you can do better. But the puppet administration can't own it and take responsibility, why would their "constituents"?

Why did you change usernames

 

[Expect2Win]

How long will the blame trump card be used for the failures of your puppet? Come on man! Surely you can do better. But the puppet administration can't own it and take responsibility, why would their "constituents"?

4 years like Trump blamed Obama.
So what you are saying is that those things happened under Biden's watch?