2019-2020 Girls' Basketball Poll #2 (Release 12/18)

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2019-2020 Girls' Basketball Poll #2 (Release 12/18)

Class 1

1 South Iron

2 Walnut Grove

3 Community R-VI

4 Wheatland

5 Worth County

6 Leeton

7 Green City

8 Climax Springs

9 Meadville

10 Stanberry

Others receiving votes: Cairo, Bradleyville



Class 2

1 Tipton

2 Thayer

3 Tarkio

4 Miller

5 Blue Eye

6 Hartville

7 East Buchanan

8 Skyline

9 Ellington

10 Schuyler County

Others receiving votes: Neelyville, Oran



Class 3

1 Strafford

2 Whitfield

3 Licking

4 Clever

5 South Callaway

6 Lutheran North

7 Palmyra

8 Southern Boone

9 Mt. Vernon

10 St. Pius X (KC)

Others receiving votes: St. James, Eldorado Springs, Hermann, Steelville, Fatima



Class 4

1 Incarnate Word Academy

2 Kearney

3 Lincoln Prep

4 Rolla

5 West Plains

6 Carl Junction

7 Central (Park Hills)

8 Nevada

9 Cape Notre Dame

10 Smithville

Others receiving votes: MICDS



Class 5

1 Jefferson City

2 Rock Bridge

3 Liberty

4 Blue Springs South

5 Kirkwood

6 Parkway Central

7 Staley

8 Hazelwood Central

9 Truman

10 Howell Central

Others receiving votes: Ozark, Jackson, Nixa



MBCA Member Coaches who wish to participate in the voting process may e-mail MBCA Poll Chair, Adam Thornhill, polls@mobca.org

 

[Move86]

12-18-19 Skyline 54 Tipton 24.

 

[have an idea]

Tipton plays a very weak schedule

 

[Razzy417]

Tipton plays a very weak schedule

Isn't that the truth. They beat a team 91-21 and another team 76-4.

Class 2 in southwest Missouri is loaded on the girls side and Class 2 in other parts of the state is a sizable step below what it is in southwest Missouri. Hell, that's the case with Class 1 and 3 too. Not so much the two larger classes though.

 

[midmobasketballguy]

Isn't that the truth. They beat a team 91-21 and another team 76-4.

Class 2 in southwest Missouri is loaded on the girl's side and Class 2 in other parts of the state is a sizable step below what it is in southwest Missouri. Hell, that's the case with Class 1 and 3 too. Not so much the two larger classes though.

If you think there is a step down in Class 3 you are simply wrong.

I can make a long list of teams in Central and Northern Missouri to match that of the SW. I am not taking anything away from the SW part of the state, but that is an uneducated statement.

Blair Oaks, California, Fatima, Hermann, Macon, Monroe City, Palmyra, South Callaway, SoBoCo, St. James are all 20 win programs year in and year out with looooong successful runs of high-level basketball.

Not to mention these teams are basically split into two districts that eliminate each other, unfortunately. I realize that Strafford knocked out three loaded teams in their district the last couple of years too.

Sorry for the rant but "come on man."

 

[Razzy417]

If you think there is a step down in Class 3 you are simply wrong.

I can make a long list of teams in Central and Northern Missouri to match that of the SW. I am not taking anything away from the SW part of the state, but that is an uneducated statement.

Blair Oaks, California, Fatima, Hermann, Macon, Monroe City, Palmyra, South Callaway, SoBoCo, St. James are all 20 win programs year in and year out with looooong successful runs of high-level basketball.

Not to mention these teams are basically split into two districts that eliminate each other, unfortunately. I realize that Strafford knocked out three loaded teams in their district the last couple of years too.

Sorry for the rant but "come on man."

I didn't say there were not "20 win programs" in other parts of the state. Of COURSE there are 20 win programs, but that says nothing about the caliber of competition that they play. If you just want to talk about Class 3 girls, the proof lies in what part of the state has produced the most state championships and that is easily southwest Missouri.

Contrary to your claim that I made an "uneducated statement", here are some facts, straight from the MSHSAA website, which has the state tournament brackets going back to the 2002-03 season, so there is 17 seasons worth of history there.

So, out of 17 seasons, teams from southwest Missouri have won the girls Class 3 state title 11 times.

How many girls Class 3 state champs have come from central or northern Missouri over that time, you ask?

0

If a team from southwest Missouri didn't win, a St Louis or KC private school team usually won, and you know what happens with those private schools in those cities but that's another story for another day.

And there have been a total of 20 final four teams from southwest Missouri over that time, while there were 21 teams from all of central and northern Missouri combined. So there have been plenty of teams from central and northern Missouri to make the final four, but not a single one had what it took to win the state championship. 0 for 21...

Southwest Missouri has produced 11 championships out of the 20 teams that went to the final four from that area.

Last year just in Strafford's district were at least 3 teams that would have likely beaten Trenton, for example, who was undefeated going into the final four before being rolled over by Strafford. And Mt Vernon, who lost to Strafford in sectionals would have also beaten Trenton.

I'm not saying there aren't good teams and programs in central and northern Missouri or that there aren't teams that win 20+ games in most seasons. When they mostly play teams from the same area, that will of course happen. But once they reach the state playoffs and start playing teams from southwest Missouri... well, you see the proof above, right?

I rest my case.

 

[Ftballfan16]

In class 2 I would take the 5 SWMO teams that are ranked head to head over the other 5 any day of the week.

 

[midmobasketballguy]

There is talent in SW Missouri and there is no denying it. Strafford's team of the century skews those numbers as well.

I highly doubt that 3 of those teams beat Trenton. Trenton downed Licking, a SW team, by double digits.

But the argument about who has made final four runs etc is flawed, to say the least. There is zero effort to put the best teams in the final four by MSHSAA or the Coach's Association. If you're willing to be realistic the road to the final four is set when districts are released and this isn't just basketball. BUT if you get in a district with Strafford (Mt. Vernon, Clever) or you end up in the district a couple of years ago with St. James (#1) SoBoCo (#4), Tolton (top 10). Until they make a major change to the playoff system you simply will not see your best teams in the final four. And to your point, last year there may have been 3 of the 4 from the Southwest. But just a few short years ago you could have very easily had 3 from the central. Just my two cents.

I am not trying to be contrary but I do think you're being a bit over the top saying that SW teams are just that much better than anyone else.

 

[Razzy417]

There is talent in SW Missouri and there is no denying it. Strafford's team of the century skews those numbers as well.

I highly doubt that 3 of those teams beat Trenton. Trenton downed Licking, a SW team, by double digits.

But the argument about who has made final four runs etc is flawed, to say the least. There is zero effort to put the best teams in the final four by MSHSAA or the Coach's Association. If you're willing to be realistic the road to the final four is set when districts are released and this isn't just basketball. BUT if you get in a district with Strafford (Mt. Vernon, Clever) or you end up in the district a couple of years ago with St. James (#1) SoBoCo (#4), Tolton (top 10). Until they make a major change to the playoff system you simply will not see your best teams in the final four. And to your point, last year there may have been 3 of the 4 from the Southwest. But just a few short years ago you could have very easily had 3 from the central. Just my two cents.

I am not trying to be contrary but I do think you're being a bit over the top saying that SW teams are just that much better than anyone else.

The Licking game was a third place game. While important, the motivation factor comes into play since both teams had just lost and were no longer playing for the championship.

Even if you take Strafford's 4 straight state titles out of the equation, that's still 7 titles in 13 seasons and odds are that a SW Missouri team would have won anyway some of those years. And if not, a St Louis or KC team probably would have, so it really changes nothing.

Your district argument applies to everyone, which you alluded to. The bottom line is that no matter how districts are set up, over time, the best teams will win and go the furthest. We've got 17 seasons of evidence that in Class 3 girls basketball, southwest Missouri owns central and northern Missouri overall.

I DO think the SW Missouri Class, 1, 2 and 3 girls teams at least are better than those from northern and central Missouri. Not to sound arrogant, but I just proved Class 3 is definitely better.

Maybe 20 years ago, 30 years ago that was not the case. And maybe 10-20 years from now it wont be the case. But it HAS been the case over the last 15-20 years at least.

 

[have an idea]

Try beating a swmo team in the quarterfinals at Drury with Springfield refs. Good luck with that. Lol

 

[Move86]

If the refs cost you the game I guess you wasn’t playing good enough to win the game anyway.

 

[have an idea]

My opinion differs.

 

[Aboveitall]

Call it how it is. SW Mo teams have more opportunities to play better competition in the offseason thanks to the facilities there. Its a popular place for basketball. With the exception of an occasional private school (and IWA consistently in class 4) in STL, SW teams have been much stronger for many years. Razzy is right, there is a clear gap. SW area is really Hartville up to Lebanon. East of that is not considered SW. Except for WP,Rolla those teams don’t even try to play teams to the west. Licking has finally ventured that way because they see an opportunity to go final 4 again. Playing in the “licking league” in Rolla doesn’t really qualify as seeking competition to get better.
Districts are made more for logistics, not competition. MSHSAA does NOT care about matching the better team in quarters. It’s a poorly ran organization.
I do agree that it’s very hard to beat a sw team at Drury but it’s because the sw team is usually better. As far as the refs, you could go to STL and let your players get mugged and allow the other teams to travel at will and trip and push,etc ...... or you can go to central MO and be called for a foul because you breathed on them or.... go to sw mo where the refs allow the skill to win the game. It’s easy to criticize refs but the ones in sw are the best in the state.

 

[Highsocks4life]

Call it how it is. SW Mo teams have more opportunities to play better competition in the offseason thanks to the facilities there. Its a popular place for basketball. With the exception of an occasional private school (and IWA consistently in class 4) in STL, SW teams have been much stronger for many years. Razzy is right, there is a clear gap. SW area is really Hartville up to Lebanon. East of that is not considered SW. Except for WP,Rolla those teams don’t even try to play teams to the west. Licking has finally ventured that way because they see an opportunity to go final 4 again. Playing in the “licking league” in Rolla doesn’t really qualify as seeking competition to get better.
Districts are made more for logistics, not competition. MSHSAA does NOT care about matching the better team in quarters. It’s a poorly ran organization.
I do agree that it’s very hard to beat a sw team at Drury but it’s because the sw team is usually better. As far as the refs, you could go to STL and let your players get mugged and allow the other teams to travel at will and trip and push,etc ...... or you can go to central MO and be called for a foul because you breathed on them or.... go to sw mo where the refs allow the skill to win the game. It’s easy to criticize refs but the ones in sw are the best in the state.

Well said

 

[have an idea]

Whoa Nelly! Springfield refs call way more fouls thanCentral Mo.

 

[Highsocks4life]

If you think there is a step down in Class 3 you are simply wrong.

I can make a long list of teams in Central and Northern Missouri to match that of the SW. I am not taking anything away from the SW part of the state, but that is an uneducated statement.

Blair Oaks, California, Fatima, Hermann, Macon, Monroe City, Palmyra, South Callaway, SoBoCo, St. James are all 20 win programs year in and year out with looooong successful runs of high-level basketball.

Not to mention these teams are basically split into two districts that eliminate each other, unfortunately. I realize that Strafford knocked out three loaded teams in their district the last couple of years too.

Sorry for the rant but "come on man."

20+ wins are all fine and well you can adjust schedules to get that year after year but in the end if you ain’t here have you really done anything?

 

[Highsocks4life]

20+ wins are all fine and well you can adjust schedules to get that year after year but in the end if you ain’t here have you really done anything?

There*

 

[Hoopsquad20]

St. James got hosed at Drury in a quarterfinal against Buffalo like 5 years ago. Their stud got 0 calls the entire night.
Didn't Licking beat South Callaway who won district 9 last year?
Clever may be the best class 3 team in swmo .. but they got transfer players that specifically transferred for bb reasons. Gotta keep up with the Jones I guess.
East Buch is the real deal. They dominated Penney who is a well respected class 2 program.

 

[Razzy417]

Strafford is still the best Class 3 team not only in SWMO, but in the state until proven otherwise. Even without the Franks there. They deserve their #1 ranking.

El Dorado Springs is an emerging power and may well be good enough this season to make some noise in the post season. They certainly will be a powerhouse the next two years. Their best players are two sophomores and a freshman. Those 3 aren't just good players, they are great players.

Sparta is the same way, but in Class 2. Loaded with talented freshman and sophomores. They lost to Hartville by 15 in their second game but beat Bradleyville by almost the same score Clever beat them by this past week. They aren't getting votes in the state ranking polls yet, but they should be pretty soon.

 

[Razzy417]

Except for WP,Rolla those teams don’t even try to play teams to the west. .

To be fair, they are Class 4 teams in an area with very few other Class 4 teams. West Plains in particular is out in the middle of nowhere and has to travel almost 100 miles to get to another Class 4 school, and the closest ones to them are Rolla and the Springfield area schools, so they have little choice but to play Springfield area schools.

Rolla is more centrally located and has the option of playing St Louis area schools, or ones from central and south/southwest Missouri. They seem to avoid playing the St Louis schools and instead play teams from central and south/southwest Missouri.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

It’s easy to criticize refs but the ones in sw are the best in the state.

Joplin Association refs are absolutely horrid.

 

[luigi10_03]

At the half Class 4, #4 Rolla and Class 5 #2 Rockbridge are tied 16-16. Each team playing some stout defense

 

[8162417]

Strafford is still the best Class 3 team not only in SWMO, but in the state until proven otherwise. Even without the Franks there. They deserve their #1 ranking.

El Dorado Springs is an emerging power and may well be good enough this season to make some noise in the post season. They certainly will be a powerhouse the next two years. Their best players are two sophomores and a freshman. Those 3 aren't just good players, they are great players.

Sparta is the same way, but in Class 2. Loaded with talented freshman and sophomores. They lost to Hartville by 15 in their second game but beat Bradleyville by almost the same score Clever beat them by this past week. They aren't getting votes in the state ranking polls yet, but they should be pretty soon.

Who exactly had Eldorado Springs played? Good record yes, but not against high level competition.

 

[Razzy417]

Who exactly had Eldorado Springs played? Good record yes, but not against high level competition.

Well they beat Skyline by 8 and a pretty good Butler team by 10.

But overall you are right, they don't play the toughest schedule around. They play Miller on January 13th and Nevada February 18th so those two games will be good tests.

As I said, they won't be as good this yr as they might be the next two seasons since their best players are freshman and sophomores.

 

[Hoopsquad20]

Skyline beat c2#1 Tipton by 30 and Butler beat Skyline.