Four years ago today

[Toots_mcgee]

Prior to you boys rewriting history.

3/8/20

The President of the United States is playing golf today while a cruise ship full of people remains off the California coast because Trump doesn’t want to let Americans with Coronavirus into the country. “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”

That evening:

Dr. Fauci on with Chris Wallace FOX tells him how he fought to have those people taken off the Grand Princess. It appears Trump nixed that.

 

[blindedbythelight]

Prior to you boys rewriting history.

3/8/20

The President of the United States is playing golf today while a cruise ship full of people remains off the California coast because Trump doesn’t want to let Americans with Coronavirus into the country. “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”

That evening:

Dr. Fauci on with Chris Wallace FOX tells him how he fought to have those people taken off the Grand Princess. It appears Trump nixed that.

Keeping people infected with a deadly virus isolated to prevent the spread to the general population is the only intelligent thing to do.

 

[Expect2Win]

Keeping people infected with a deadly virus isolated to prevent the spread to the general population is the only intelligent thing to do.

Really? I thought isolation and masks were stupid?

 

[Arcola]

More importantly on this day in history MLB allows women into the locker room and the Barbie Doll makes its debut. Their was no Twitter or internet so Toots wrote into the newspapers.

 

[r14veer]

Keeping people infected with a deadly virus isolated to prevent the spread to the general population is the only intelligent thing to do.

Uhhhh....yeah.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Really? I thought isolation and masks were stupid?

That ran her off

 

[Toots_mcgee]

Who was president?

 

[Toots_mcgee]

 

[Kurt_Warners_Blind_Son]

Prior to you boys rewriting history.

3/8/20

The President of the United States is playing golf today while a cruise ship full of people remains off the California coast because Trump doesn’t want to let Americans with Coronavirus into the country. “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”

That evening:

Dr. Fauci on with Chris Wallace FOX tells him how he fought to have those people taken off the Grand Princess. It appears Trump nixed that.

TrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrump

 

[Toots_mcgee]

3/16/

TrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrump

nominate someone else to save us.

 

[65TPT]

Who was president?

View embedded media

But the left wing people were the ones complaining about keeping things open and how it was killing everyone. I don't know very many republicans that wanted to shut the country down. Every person that I encountered that was for shutting down schools and businesses were Democrats. I'm not going to say there weren't Republicans that wanted to shut things down, but I can personally say I never encountered any.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

But the left wing people were the ones complaining about keeping things open and how it was killing everyone. I don't know very many republicans that wanted to shut the country down. Every person that I encountered that was for shutting down schools and businesses were Democrats. I'm not going to say there weren't Republicans that wanted to shut things down, but I can personally say I never encountered any.

Trump called a national state of emergency.
And rushed through the ClotShot.

/thread

 

[65TPT]

Trump called a national state of emergency.
And rushed through the ClotShot.

/thread

It doesn't matter what he does it will never be good enough for Democrats. They will spin whatever they want. 3 1/2 years ago they called for him to shut down the country and that too many lives were lost because of him. Now you say he developed the "Clot Shot" but 3 1/2 years ago it was the best thing ever. I never agreed with shutting things down. I don't agree with the Covid "Vaccine" mandate that some companies forced upon people. My point is the left were the ones complaining about things staying open and the people complaining if you didn't get the shot.

 

[Toots_mcgee]

They are still looking into shining a light inside your body to kill the virus and using disinfectant, but he never said that or that’s not what he meant or or or.

 

[65TPT]

They are still looking into shining a light inside your body to kill the virus and using disinfectant, but he never said that or that’s not what he meant or or or.

Dude you are obsessed with Trump lol. Any point that is made is always brought back to him. The whole point I was engaging with Veer is that in my personal experience it is the Democrats who were more for shutting down the country, wearing masks, the vaccine, etc. They were all excited for the stimulus checks when they and other republicans didn't seem to understand the future effects that it would have on inflation. It has nothing to do with Trump. Just for one time can you be an adult?

 

[Veer2Eternity]

It doesn't matter what he does it will never be good enough for Democrats. They will spin whatever they want. 3 1/2 years ago they called for him to shut down the country and that too many lives were lost because of him. Now you say he developed the "Clot Shot" but 3 1/2 years ago it was the best thing ever. I never agreed with shutting things down. I don't agree with the Covid "Vaccine" mandate that some companies forced upon people. My point is the left were the ones complaining about things staying open and the people complaining if you didn't get the shot.

The FACT is as a country we are much better off today than we were 4 years ago.

My investment portfolio has gone bonkers this year.

Both of the boomer fools in WH gave us way too much 'stimulus' and that led to massive inflation (along with profit taking by some business).

 

[65TPT]

The FACT is as a country we are much better off today than we were 4 years ago.

My investment portfolio has gone bonkers this year.

Both of the boomer fools in WH gave us way too much 'stimulus' and that led to massive inflation (along with profit taking by some business).

And how much did you make after COVID? It went bonkers then too. That's the market, there's going to be ups and downs. But I would disagree that we are better off as a country. I think the division has only gotten worse. Inflation is up, the border is a mess and we have turned in to a country that is offended by everything. Everyone thinks they are oppressed or have been mistreated. I'm not saying it's either parties specific fault, but I just don't believe it's a fact that we are better off.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

And how much did you make after COVID? It went bonkers then too. That's the market, there's going to be ups and downs. But I would disagree that we are better off as a country. I think the division has only gotten worse. Inflation is up, the border is a mess and we have turned in to a country that is offended by everything. Everyone thinks they are oppressed or have been mistreated. I'm not saying it's either parties specific fault, but I just don't believe it's a fact that we are better off.

Inflation is up all over the world.
The border is a mess? Guess the GOP shoulda passed the toughest border bill ever instead of playing politics with it.

We are better off for sure.

We aren't locked out of working.
Gas prices be damned...they were only low because nobody was going anywhere.

 

[Toots_mcgee]

The U.S. economy is the strongest in the world right now. Crime is actually down right now. Where are the protests in the streets we had under Trump? Why are all the store shelves filled with products?

Inflation sucks. That comes with capitalism and prosperity.

When we had little to no inflation and the economy was growing slow but steady under Obama, that wasn’t so bad, was it? But the amateur economists were bitching and moaning nonstop.

Young people especially act like this hasn’t happened before. In 1982 I was getting out of college and there were no jobs. Interest rates were 18%. This ain’t shet compared to that. But a year later I was turning down jobs. It’s called a business cycle.

 

[65TPT]

The U.S. economy is the strongest in the world right now. Crime is actually down right now. Where are the protests in the streets we had under Trump? Why are all the store shelves filled with products?

Inflation sucks. That comes with capitalism and prosperity.

When we had little to no inflation and the economy was growing slow but steady under Obama, that wasn’t so bad, was it? But the amateur economists were bitching and moaning nonstop.

Young people especially act like this hasn’t happened before. In 1982 I was getting out of college and there were no jobs. Interest rates were 18%. This ain’t shet compared to that. But a year later I was turning down jobs. It’s called a business cycle.

Wait a minute. Inflation is only happening because of Capitalism. But you have another post stating how Biden loves America because of what he has done and how he is helping MAGA people more than Trump because of his Inflation Reduction Act. An act that is going to implement a 15% corporate minimum tax. Please explain to me how that is going to reduce inflation. It will also include hiring 87,000 IRS agents to help bring in $80 billion in tax money. Democrats want to talk about taxing the rich and wealthy and how it's not fair they avoid paying taxes, but then you want to post that the inflation is ok because that's just capitalism? Forgive me for not understanding, just trying to wrap my head around the logic.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Wait a minute. Inflation is only happening because of Capitalism. But you have another post stating how Biden loves America because of what he has done and how he is helping MAGA people more than Trump because of his Inflation Reduction Act. An act that is going to implement a 15% corporate minimum tax. Please explain to me how that is going to reduce inflation. It will also include hiring 87,000 IRS agents to help bring in $80 billion in tax money. Democrats want to talk about taxing the rich and wealthy and how it's not fair they avoid paying taxes, but then you want to post that the inflation is ok because that's just capitalism? Forgive me for not understanding, just trying to wrap my head around the logic.

Inflation was bigly due to trumps 2 welfare giveaways during covid (including one in dec2020 after he got smoked by sleepy joe) and then biden giving one out as well.

That and corporations are putting the screws to us with their profit taking. Energy companies are the most obvious but those costs get passed on to everyone

That said, our economy has recovered much faster than any other in the world. Guess that's luck.

 

[Toots_mcgee]

Wait a minute. Inflation is only happening because of Capitalism. But you have another post stating how Biden loves America because of what he has done and how he is helping MAGA people more than Trump because of his Inflation Reduction Act. An act that is going to implement a 15% corporate minimum tax. Please explain to me how that is going to reduce inflation. It will also include hiring 87,000 IRS agents to help bring in $80 billion in tax money. Democrats want to talk about taxing the rich and wealthy and how it's not fair they avoid paying taxes, but then you want to post that the inflation is ok because that's just capitalism? Forgive me for not understanding, just trying to wrap my head around the logic.

Where did I say inflation was ok?
I don’t get into discussions with cult members who exaggerate or skew my words.
Capitalism/supply and demand is most, but not all of it.

Biden’s current budget proposal calls for lower taxes on the poor and higher on the rich. You seem to have missed that.

Sometimes to get a bill passed you have to compromise. I never see you mentioning the effects of Trump cutting taxes when the economy was going gangbusters when conservatives were telling him not to.

He could have paid down the debt or invested in infrastructure instead which would have had long term benefits.

Instead he threw gas on the fire so he could brag on the stock market.

 

[65TPT]

Where did I say inflation was ok?
I don’t get into discussions with cult members who exaggerate or skew my words.
Capitalism/supply and demand is most, but not all of it.

Biden’s current budget proposal calls for lower taxes on the poor and higher on the rich. You seem to have missed that.

Sometimes to get a bill passed you have to compromise. I never see you mentioning the effects of Trump cutting taxes when the economy was going gangbusters when conservatives were telling him not to.

He could have paid down the debt or invested in infrastructure instead which would have had long term benefits.

Instead he threw gas on the fire so he could brag on the stock market.

Toots, you're the smartest guy you know. Explain to me just how you think Biden's plan is going to work. Lower taxes on the poor and higher on the rich. You think the rich business owners are just going to make less money? Where and how do you think they will make up for taxes he plans to implement on them? He's going to "lower" the taxes for the poor by having the expanded child tax credit. Where is that money going to magically appear from? How did the American Rescue plan work out for the child tax credit? You think that extra money was well spent by those families? I'm sure the American Rescue Plan didn't effect inflation at all. Most people are poor because of their own actions and inability to manage money.

Every person has an opportunity to become a business owner. Every person can change the future for their family either good or bad. That's the beauty of capitalism.

 

[Toots_mcgee]

Yes. The child poverty rate in this country tumbled with the child credit increase.

Of course people having more spending money increases demand.

So you prefer the purchase of second yachts and third houses over living essentials. Got it.

 

[65TPT]

Yes. The child poverty rate in this country tumbled with the child credit increase.

Of course people having more spending money increases demand.

So you prefer the purchase of second yachts and third houses over living essentials. Got it.

Please find me the data on the child poverty rate tumbling.

I never said I was for second yachts or third houses, don't skew my words Mr. Cultist. All I'm saying is the same people that complain about Jeff Bezos are the same people that order crap from Amazon nonstop.

Life is a lot about choices. You talk about living essentials, yet those same people have money for drugs and alcohol. If the child tax credit had to be spent on children, I would be all for it. But when the parents spend it on their addictive habits, count me out. If those same people that smoke a pack a day or have to get their fix on drugs would invest it, they would retire millionaires or multimillionaires. Quick calculations say someone that smokes a pack a day from age 20-65, could've turned that money into $1.3 mil with a 10% rate of return. Heck if they're spending $10 a day on that crap it would be over $2.6. But again tell me how I'm all for yachts and whatever else you want to make up. I'm just saying they have choices they can make.

 

[Toots_mcgee]

If it was up to me we would tax the holy living snikeys out of smokes, alcohol and ammo.

 

[65TPT]

Child poverty statistics in the U.S.

Table data for Children in poverty

datacenter.aecf.org

This shows that it did not fall much. Which one is correct? I'm not sure. The government shouldn't be handing out free money for people that choose not to work, or better themselves or spend their money on addictive habits. We're not a socialist country and I want no part of being one.

 

[bullitpdq68]

But the left wing people were the ones complaining about keeping things open and how it was killing everyone. I don't know very many republicans that wanted to shut the country down. Every person that I encountered that was for shutting down schools and businesses were Democrats. I'm not going to say there weren't Republicans that wanted to shut things down, but I can personally say I never encountered any.

I think you forget, in the beginning almost everybody wanted everything shut down. At that point when New York was reporting record deaths and scrambling for ventilators most people Pub or Dems were scared. Everybody was yelling why not wear mask, and even the Dems early on said they did no good. Now later as it wore on I think equally you could find people from both parties who were tired of the lookdown and equally of mask as that had flipped. But the Pubs need to stop trying rewrite history, A Republican was in the white house when we all the lockdowns first went into place. But I know people of both parties pretty equally that were tired of all of in later on. Yeah Biden wanted different things once he came into office but things were slowing down and in the end control stayed locally which it should have honestly.

I remember a time if a person cried about have to vaccinate their kids they were crazy Deb hippies, it was the Pubs who said do it for God and Country. Now some how that has flipped. Crazy how parties can divide us by stupid stuff like this.

 

[65TPT]

I think you forget, in the beginning almost everybody wanted everything shut down. At that point when New York was reporting record deaths and scrambling for ventilators most people Pub or Dems were scared. Everybody was yelling why not wear mask, and even the Dems early on said they did no good. Now later as it wore on I think equally you could find people from both parties who were tired of the lookdown and equally of mask as that had flipped. But the Pubs need to stop trying rewrite history, A Republican was in the white house when we all the lockdowns first went into place. But I know people of both parties pretty equally that were tired of all of in later on. Yeah Biden wanted different things once he came into office but things were slowing down and in the end control stayed locally which it should have honestly.

I remember a time if a person cried about have to vaccinate their kids they were crazy Deb hippies, it was the Pubs who said do it for God and Country. Now some how that has flipped. Crazy how parties can divide us by stupid stuff like this.

I guess my personal experiences were a lot different. My democratic friends, who I coached with at the time were mad when we resumed practice during the summer. They would get mad if I did not wear a mask outside coaching. They just could not believe we were playing football when the virus was prevalent. While my republican friends were more on the lines of the lockdowns and masks were stupid. Everyone that I worked with, I was not a teacher, were ok that we stayed open and we operated business as normal. Again, I can only speak to my personal experiences and everyone's may have been different.

 

[r14veer]

Child poverty statistics in the U.S.

Table data for Children in poverty

datacenter.aecf.org

This shows that it did not fall much. Which one is correct? I'm not sure. The government shouldn't be handing out free money for people that choose not to work, or better themselves or spend their money on addictive habits. We're not a socialist country and I want no part of being one.

Just because you have some some socialist policies and institutions, that doesn't make your government/economy socialist. It's not the all-or-nothing type of thing that conservatives love to paint a picture of. I know that kind of thinking is easier, but it is not logical, nor is it accurate. It is certainly expedient to simplify complex systems when whipping up the uneducated masses, so I can see why they do it. And when I say "uneducated masses," I really just mean the 90% who have no clue about how economics and government function, which often includes formally educated as well as non-formally educated people.

In fact, if you went to any of those scary socialist Scandinavian countries, they'd scoff at the very notion that their forms of government/economy are practicing socialism as a system. Social democracies, for sure, but that isn't the same thing. Private ownership of the means of production exists in those countries; a market economy exists in those countries. Guess what else exists in those countries, as a general rule? Higher life expectancy, better health, higher general happiness, better education systems, etc.

Also, we are not the lassez-faire free market capitalist society that conservatives sometimes pretend we are nor have we ever been; we are a mixed economy. We have many "socialist" policies and institutions that have been with us for a long, long time that we wouldn't even think of giving up.

I'd argue that no one is or ever actually has practiced socialism (or communism, for that matter) as a system of government, in anything other than name. We have now and have had in the past some absolutist monarchies masquerading under the guise of socialism/communism for sure. And if we're going to pretend that everything actually is exactly what people name it as, well then, we've got bigger problems that aren't solvable.

 

[65TPT]

Just because you have some some socialist policies and institutions, that doesn't make your government/economy socialist. It's not the all-or-nothing type of thing that conservatives love to paint a picture of. I know that kind of thinking is easier, but it is not logical, nor is it accurate. It is certainly expedient to simplify complex systems when whipping up the uneducated masses, so I can see why they do it. And when I say "uneducated masses," I really just mean the 90% who have no clue about how economics and government function, which often includes formally educated as well as non-formally educated people.

In fact, if you went to any of those scary socialist Scandinavian countries, they'd scoff at the very notion that their forms of government/economy are practicing socialism as a system. Social democracies, for sure, but that isn't the same thing. Private ownership of the means of production exists in those countries; a market economy exists in those countries. Guess what else exists in those countries, as a general rule? Higher life expectancy, better health, higher general happiness, better education systems, etc.

Also, we are not the lassez-faire free market capitalist society that conservatives sometimes pretend we are nor have we ever been; we are a mixed economy. We have many "socialist" policies and institutions that have been with us for a long, long time that we wouldn't even think of giving up.

I'd argue that no one is or ever actually has practiced socialism (or communism, for that matter) as a system of government, in anything other than name. We have now and have had in the past some absolutist monarchies masquerading under the guise of socialism/communism for sure. And if we're going to pretend that everything actually is exactly what people name it as, well then, we've got bigger problems that aren't solvable.

I agree with a lot of those statements. I think it is just broadly viewed as socialist or capitalist. My main point was people make bad decisions and are not financially literate. But then want to play victim and think the government should bail them out. If people would take responsibility for their own actions and understand money, then maybe they wouldn't complain about the rich constantly. They have the same opportunity to start a company and grow it just like others have done.

 

[r14veer]

I guess my personal experiences were a lot different. My democratic friends, who I coached with at the time were mad when we resumed practice during the summer. They would get mad if I did not wear a mask outside coaching. They just could not believe we were playing football when the virus was prevalent. While my republican friends were more on the lines of the lockdowns and masks were stupid. Everyone that I worked with, I was not a teacher, were ok that we stayed open and we operated business as normal. Again, I can only speak to my personal experiences and everyone's may have been different.

My experience was that my conservative friends openly flouted the public health and safety rules as a virtue signal to other conservatives that they wouldn't be told what to do, much like teenagers who won't be told what to do.

My liberal friends tended to follow the public health and safety rules, while not being necessarily on board with everything, but understanding that it was a novel virus and we did not know much about it, so caution might be the right idea until we gain more understanding. Some were blind followers, for sure, but most put waaaay more actual thought into it than conservatives that I know who were just dissatisfied with being inconvenienced.

 

[r14veer]

I agree with a lot of those statements. I think it is just broadly viewed as socialist or capitalist. My main point was people make bad decisions and are not financially literate. But then want to play victim and think the government should bail them out. If people would take responsibility for their own actions and understand money, then maybe they wouldn't complain about the rich constantly. They have the same opportunity to start a company and grow it just like others have done.

I, too, dislike playing victim and expecting government bailouts. Of course, the government bails out big business like they're handing out candy, so I'd prefer to see that go away as well.

One thing I will vehemently disagree with is that everyone has the same opportunity to start a company and grow it like others have done. Government policy favors already-established big business. 90% of startups fail. You can find stats that show higher rates and lower rates of failure with some somewhat cherry-picked ideas of what a "start up" is, of course, but generally it's accepted that 90% is the failure rate.

There are myriad reasons that a startup fails, so I won't put 100% of the blame on government policies, but I will for sure put most of the blame on them.

 

[65TPT]

I, too, dislike playing victim and expecting government bailouts. Of course, the government bails out big business like they're handing out candy, so I'd prefer to see that go away as well.

One thing I will vehemently disagree with is that everyone has the same opportunity to start a company and grow it like others have done. Government policy favors already-established big business. 90% of startups fail. You can find stats that show higher rates and lower rates of failure with some somewhat cherry-picked ideas of what a "start up" is, of course, but generally it's accepted that 90% is the failure rate.

There are myriad reasons that a startup fails, so I won't put 100% of the blame on government policies, but I will for sure put most of the blame on them.

I think part of the reasons start-ups fail is because people don't fully understand what being a business owner is. They see Bezos and Elon Musk or maybe even their own CEO and think that in a year or two they'll get to where they're not working 60-80 hours a week. But the fact is, most of the time to start a company from the ground up, you have to be willing to work 60-80 hours. You don't have to build a billion dollar corporation to create a good living. I know a lot of small business owners that live well, but I also know the headaches they have to deal with as well. Is it worth it? To them it is, to others it isn't. It's your choice and outlook on what you truly want.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

I think part of the reasons start-ups fail is because people don't fully understand what being a business owner is. They see Bezos and Elon Musk or maybe even their own CEO and think that in a year or two they'll get to where they're not working 60-80 hours a week. But the fact is, most of the time to start a company from the ground up, you have to be willing to work 60-80 hours. You don't have to build a billion dollar corporation to create a good living. I know a lot of small business owners that live well, but I also know the headaches they have to deal with as well. Is it worth it? To them it is, to others it isn't. It's your choice and outlook on what you truly want.

I can see some of that but the reality is our government picks winners and losers. The scale is tipped in the favor of the 'haves' vs the have nots'.

Just look at farming. Try to start from scratch as a farmer right now.

 

[65TPT]

I can see some of that but the reality is our government picks winners and losers. The scale is tipped in the favor of the 'haves' vs the have nots'.

Just look at farming. Try to start from scratch as a farmer right now.

True because of the land and equipment. But think about any trade. Plumbing, electrical, construction. You can get started in glass installation for about $1,000. If you want to make money in America, you can make money. Just depends how willing you are to hustle.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

True because of the land and equipment. But think about any trade. Plumbing, electrical, construction. You can get started in glass installation for about $1,000. If you want to make money in America, you can make money. Just depends how willing you are to hustle.

I wish it were that simple. You need breaks and sometimes help.

 

[Toots_mcgee]

Just because you have some some socialist policies and institutions, that doesn't make your government/economy socialist. It's not the all-or-nothing type of thing that conservatives love to paint a picture of. I know that kind of thinking is easier, but it is not logical, nor is it accurate. It is certainly expedient to simplify complex systems when whipping up the uneducated masses, so I can see why they do it. And when I say "uneducated masses," I really just mean the 90% who have no clue about how economics and government function, which often includes formally educated as well as non-formally educated people.

In fact, if you went to any of those scary socialist Scandinavian countries, they'd scoff at the very notion that their forms of government/economy are practicing socialism as a system. Social democracies, for sure, but that isn't the same thing. Private ownership of the means of production exists in those countries; a market economy exists in those countries. Guess what else exists in those countries, as a general rule? Higher life expectancy, better health, higher general happiness, better education systems, etc.

Also, we are not the lassez-faire free market capitalist society that conservatives sometimes pretend we are nor have we ever been; we are a mixed economy. We have many "socialist" policies and institutions that have been with us for a long, long time that we wouldn't even think of giving up.

I'd argue that no one is or ever actually has practiced socialism (or communism, for that matter) as a system of government, in anything other than name. We have now and have had in the past some absolutist monarchies masquerading under the guise of socialism/communism for sure. And if we're going to pretend that everything actually is exactly what people name it as, well then, we've got bigger problems that aren't solvable.

Everything you said was spot on and taught to me in middle school and high school. Some people just didn’t pay attention or took some different classes or something.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Everything you said was spot on and taught to me in middle school and high school. Some people just didn’t pay attention or took some different classes or something.

 

[Toots_mcgee]

Running a business isn’t for everyone. To thrive as a country we also need workers who are educated and life long learners. The public school systems in the USA educating every child instead of just the chosen was a huge advantage for our nation.

That’s a socialistic concept that a lot of conservatives still don’t want to fund. Yet when they look to move to a new state, the first thing most look at is the quality of the local schools.