Willow 25 - Grove 25 (HALF)

[ChaoticFanatic]

Willow(12-8) tied with Grove(13-5) at half.

Atwell with 11
Jones with 8

Doesn’t look like Jones will score 40 like she did the last time these two met.

Tight game. Should be a good 2nd half coming up.

 

[ChaoticFanatic]

Willows coach has been benching players way too early on fouls all year. Haven’t had the starting 5 on the floor together for more than 5 minutes total in this game.
He had a girl get two fouls in the first quarter and benched her til the 3Q

Benches girls with 3 fouls midway through the 3Q

He’s been doing this all year and it has the cost the girls more than it’s helped.

It doesn’t matter if you keep a girl from fouling out if you’re keeping them from helping their team. They can’t do anything from the bench.

Can’t win close ballgames if you’re hamstringing yourself with your personnel management.

 

[ChaoticFanatic]

Grove running away with it in the 4Q

Poor conditioning and personnel management cost the Lady Bears tonight.

I don’t even know if this team runs in practice.

It’s so frustrating, Willow may be young, but they’re so much better than this.

Coach better fix their conditioning and time management with the benching of players in “foul trouble” or it’s going to cost them big in districts.

 

[ChaoticFanatic]

Willow will lose by 15ish after beating this team by 15ish a month ago.

 

[Comeagle]

A lot of coaches will put a player on the bench until the 3rd qtr when they get 2 fouls in the 1st half.

 

[ChaoticFanatic]

when you have 1 dependable bench player, you sit a starter with 3 fouls in the 2nd and 4 in the 3rd.
Not 2 in the 2nd and 3 in the 3rd

I was at a Willow game last week where a starter was benched 1-2 min into the 4th with 4 fouls and didn’t get put back in until there was 1:30 left roughly. I’m sorry, that’s just bad.

 

[ChaoticFanatic]

Earlier this year when they played licking, 3 starters were benched midway through the 2nd Q with 2 fouls apiece and then the same 3 were benched with 2 min left in the 3rd and 3 fouls apiece.

None of them fouled out, but the deficit went from 6-7 points to about 15 just like that.

If you’ve got a deep bench, it’s different, you’ve got options, but if you don’t, you can’t do that.

 

[ChaoticFanatic]

59-46 Final.

Grove wins. Welch had a heck of a game. 30 points I think? Grove was the better team tonight. They were in wayyyy better shape.

 

[AC100]

I have gotten to where I just want to see the best players decide the game. Raise the foul limit.

 

[O_ducks]

I have gotten to where I just want to see the best players decide the game. Raise the foul limit.

Fouling out really isn't that big of an issue, its the fear of fouling out that's the problem. As Chaotic pointed out coaches are just way to quick to sit kids, when more often than not they end game with the same number of fouls they were sat for.

I would be in favor of increasing the limit. Because even though they don't foul out it does affect a lot of games. Especially between the inconsistent reffing from game to game (or even play to play) and the state of girls basketball and the lack of bench depth.

 

[Hoopsquad20]

Hahahaha you should apply for the job chaotic. What's ur pedigree and sports background? Your cool hat game is legit either way. Seems like you're more of a problem than help for your beloved Lady Bears.

 

[ChaoticFanatic]

Hahahaha you should apply for the job chaotic. What's ur pedigree and sports background? Your cool hat game is legit either way. Seems like you're more of a problem than help for your beloved Lady Bears.

A post that makes jabs and doesn’t even address anything that I mentioned. Thank you.

 

[ChaoticFanatic]

Which scenario is better?

A. Player fouls out with 4-6 min left in the game so they end up on the bench being unproductive for 4-6 min of said game

B. Player is pulled every time they get a foul called on them once they reach 2 fouls and they sit on the bench being unproductive for collectively for 8-12 min of game clock time in said game

 

[Hoopsquad20]

The better scenario is knowing your players tendencies, understanding her individual temperament. Coaches are around their players more than any other family member throughout a season. They can see when a player is on tilt. Some kids are foul prone. I once saw a coach sit a big girl the ENTIRE 1st half because she was so foul prone. That coach has multiple final fours and a state title. There is also the aspect of prepping girls for future games..especially if the current contest is non-district non-conference. Are you in practice? Do you know the willow girls behavior record at school? Are you in on the game planning and practice planning and scouting and handling egos and handling parents or are you just a stick stirring a pot and trying to make life harder for a good man?

 

[AC100]

Sometimes a coach is trying to send a message during a regular season game that generally doesn't mean that much.

 

[ChaoticFanatic]

The better scenario is knowing your players tendencies, understanding her individual temperament. Coaches are around their players more than any other family member throughout a season. They can see when a player is on tilt. Some kids are foul prone. I once saw a coach sit a big girl the ENTIRE 1st half because she was so foul prone. That coach has multiple final fours and a state title. There is also the aspect of prepping girls for future games..especially if the current contest is non-district non-conference. Are you in practice? Do you know the willow girls behavior record at school? Are you in on the game planning and practice planning and scouting and handling egos and handling parents or are you just a stick stirring a pot and trying to make life harder for a good man?

You make good points there.

You obviously know who I am given a previous comment, I speak my mind, always have. Always will. Saying that I’m trying to make someone’s life harder is a bit of an emotional reaction to me not agreeing with one thing that the coach does.
This is a sports forum, the point is for people to talk about high school sports on here.

And it sounds to me like you don’t respect my opinion, and if that’s the case, then my criticism shouldn’t matter as much as you’re making it out to.

If you’ve paid attention to other things I’ve said on here, I’ve said that the coach is good man, and is no stranger to basketball. I don’t have to agree with everything he does strategy-wise and you don’t have to agree with me.

The points that you make are valid points, but I’ve watched enough of them this year to know that “some”(not all) of the choices made with benching players with fouls has hurt them. Who’s to know whether someone will foul out or not foul out when it comes right down to it. Yes, some players are foul prone and all have tendencies, but with the inconsistencies in officiating in todays basketball, it’s hard to really predict.

He’s a first year head coach, and I have no doubt that as far as the future goes, he and the girls will be fine. They’re a young team that are going through a lot of growing pains.

Overall, this is going to be the most talented/athletically inclined group to come through Willow in quite awhile and probably will be for quite awhile, so…
I can be guilty of getting a little fired up in the moment and putting my foot in my mouth in some ways but that doesn’t mean the things I say have no merit.

 

[mgpantherman]

I can’t believe I’m going to say this but I agree with chaotic on this subject……willows coach is a good guy don’t understand his handling cause he knows basketball

 

[TadQueasy]

I would say there are good points on both sides here in this deal. First year coaches always have growing pains and have room for improvement. And as Hoops said no one really knows the important things to consider in all of these decisions like a coach that is with the team every day. But I would say overall the Willow girls have had a solid year for being so young and having a new coach.

I would disagree a litttle that this current group is the most talented and athletically inclined to come thru Willow in quite awhile. No slight on this current group as they are talented and have a lot of potential. But Willow has had a run of some pretty athletic girls over the last 10 years or so back to the Bunch Twins. Their was a Sherbo girl that was super athletic and she was the best player on a couple good teams. The VonAllmen girl and older Jones girl had a nice crew around them when they swept the SCA a couple years ago.

 

[ChaoticFanatic]

I would say there are good points on both sides here in this deal. First year coaches always have growing pains and have room for improvement. And as Hoops said no one really knows the important things to consider in all of these decisions like a coach that is with the team every day. But I would say overall the Willow girls have had a solid year for being so young and having a new coach.

I would disagree a litttle that this current group is the most talented and athletically inclined to come thru Willow in quite awhile. No slight on this current group as they are talented and have a lot of potential. But Willow has had a run of some pretty athletic girls over the last 10 years or so back to the Bunch Twins. Their was a Sherbo girl that was super athletic and she was the best player on a couple good teams. The VonAllmen girl and older Jones girl had a nice crew around them when they swept the SCA a couple years ago.

What I’m getting at with overall athletically inclined is that Willow starts 4 Sophs.

There’s only 1 senior and 1 junior on the whole roster. The remaining 20 players listed on willows MSHAA roster are all Sophs and freshman. You don’t get those kind of numbers from two classes at Willow often, if ever.

The soph class is very raw athletically still but I have no doubt by the time they’re seniors that they will be the most athletic they’ve had in awhile. And I am convinced that the current jones girl “could” end up being the best scorer Willow springs girls basketball has had this millennium.