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Will heads ever roll?

Toots_mcgee

Well-Known Member
Nov 10, 2020
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You signed a new catcher to a 5 year $87.5 million deal and he doesn’t make it past May 5 before being moved to DH so we are stuck with Knizner, who was close to being released before the season.

What a screwed up organization. Someone should be fired stat. Unbelievable
 
You signed a new catcher to a 5 year $87.5 million deal and he doesn’t make it past May 5 before being moved to DH so we are stuck with Knizner, who was close to being released before the season.

What a screwed up organization. Someone should be fired stat. Unbelievable
I haven't heard what his issue is that keeps him from catching, he can bat and run and act like he did when he played for the Cub's. Anybody know that the deal is?
 
I haven't heard what his issue is that keeps him from catching, he can bat and run and act like he did when he played for the Cub's. Anybody know that the deal is?
He has been in the league 8 years.
How could they not know what they were getting? All they had to do was call Arietta or Lester or some other cubs pitchers and ask them what was up with Contreras. Someone on the radio was implying it has to do with preparation on how to pitch to each batter. I have no idea if that is true.
 
I haven't heard what his issue is that keeps him from catching, he can bat and run and act like he did when he played for the Cub's. Anybody know that the deal is?
It's all about pitch selection. Apparently he and the pitchers have trouble agreeing on what pitch to throw. When they shake him off the pitch clock is putting them in hurry up mode. I guess they complained enough to get him removed. They obviously don't have enough confidence in him to throw what he calls.

I've seen stats showing the Cubs pitchers had a higher ERA with Contreras catching than with other catchers. I haven't verified that. But if so that's a pretty big red flag that seems to have gotten ignored by the Cards brass. I have to assume they just thought it would be easy to have him learn their philosophy. It's made them all look like silly.
 
It's all about pitch selection. Apparently he and the pitchers have trouble agreeing on what pitch to throw. When they shake him off the pitch clock is putting them in hurry up mode. I guess they complained enough to get him removed. They obviously don't have enough confidence in him to throw what he calls.

I've seen stats showing the Cubs pitchers had a higher ERA with Contreras catching than with other catchers. I haven't verified that. But if so that's a pretty big red flag that seems to have gotten ignored by the Cards brass. I have to assume they just thought it would be easy to have him learn their philosophy. It's made them all look like silly.
Problem is, they've seemingly run off the remaining guys that teach that philosophy.

The strangest things ever, is the technology exists for the pitchers to call their own game. Hell, Ohtani did it in the game vs. the Birds last week.
 
Problem is, they've seemingly run off the remaining guys that teach that philosophy.

The strangest things ever, is the technology exists for the pitchers to call their own game. Hell, Ohtani did it in the game vs. the Birds last week.
Yeah there's a lot of strange with this one. Including Waino saying WC could catch his next start. Can't imagine Mo and Oli liking to hear that after they've just said he won't be catching for awhile. What a clusterF Mo and Oli have turned this year into. Starting with not getting any proven starting pitching over winter, to throwing TON under the bus, to now throwing WC under the same bus. I'll say this for WC, he's handled it much better than the brass has. But this has to be severely damaging their ability to get veterans to want to play here in the future.

Thankfully the Cubs are still the Cubs and have helped take some heat off for the time being.
 
Yeah there's a lot of strange with this one. Including Waino saying WC could catch his next start. Can't imagine Mo and Oli liking to hear that after they've just said he won't be catching for awhile. What a clusterF Mo and Oli have turned this year into. Starting with not getting any proven starting pitching over winter, to throwing TON under the bus, to now throwing WC under the same bus. I'll say this for WC, he's handled it much better than the brass has. But this has to be severely damaging their ability to get veterans to want to play here in the future.

Thankfully the Cubs are still the Cubs and have helped take some heat off for the time being.
Cluster F is a great way to put it. Completely on MO's shoulders too. He put Oli in the role. He fired Shildt. He put this pitching staff together. He freaked out about the price for Murphy to pivot to Contreras. That pivot cost them the budget for FA pitching help. Granted, MO's history of signing pitchers isn't exactly great. I think, what hopefully everyone is starting to see, is MO isn't really all that fantastic at his job. An he's been pretty pedestrian at it since Luhnow left.
 
Sandy Alcantara and Zac Gallen would be our #1 and #2 starters but Mo traded them for one year of Ozuna.

Randy Arozarena would be our top outfielder but Mo unloaded him because he made a damn locker room video.

But the BFIB act like Mo is a genius for getting Jon Lester for two months and losing in the first round of the playoffs every year.
 
Sandy Alcantara and Zac Gallen would be our #1 and #2 starters but Mo traded them for one year of Ozuna.

Randy Arozarena would be our top outfielder but Mo unloaded him because he made a damn locker room video.

But the BFIB act like Mo is a genius for getting Jon Lester for two months and losing in the first round of the playoffs every year.

Have you seen the Zac Gallen interview? It's amazing he can pull off stuff like Goldy and Arenado, but then completely blow it on the seemingly common-sense moves. I can't help but think of the Ozuna trade that was idiotic, then not including Dylan Carlson in the Juan Soto deal. Yikes.
 
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From ESPN.com

Regarding STL “That's not a championship rotation," one American League scout said this week. "Anyone could have told you that months ago."
 
From ESPN.com

Regarding STL “That's not a championship rotation," one American League scout said this week. "Anyone could have told you that months ago."
Hell, I’m fairly certain it’s not a wild card or .500 rotation.
 
It was clear to most of us that this team didn't have the pitching to really contend. But now they've completely lost their focus. Way too many mistakes are happening and lack of production at times is simply mental. The only way I see it changing is different leadership. Oli isn't getting it done. They need to turn it over to a veteran manager and get out of his way. But I'm not sure Mo can do that. Ever since TLR left Mo has wanted to play both GM and Manager. That will have to change before they get back to being an upper level team.
 
It was clear to most of us that this team didn't have the pitching to really contend. But now they've completely lost their focus. Way too many mistakes are happening and lack of production at times is simply mental. The only way I see it changing is different leadership. Oli isn't getting it done. They need to turn it over to a veteran manager and get out of his way. But I'm not sure Mo can do that. Ever since TLR left Mo has wanted to play both GM and Manager. That will have to change before they get back to being an upper level team.
Heck they have GM that you NEVER hear about. When the press talks to someone about possible trades it's MO not the guy that is the GM.
 
Heck they have GM that you NEVER hear about. When the press talks to someone about possible trades it's MO not the guy that is the GM.
Keep hearing folks say they should trade Goldy. I haven't figured out what anybody would give for him in return and take on his contract. If you send him out you better be able get someone that can help. I ain't figured out who that would be right now but trading Goldy won't get enough of it.
 
Keep hearing folks say they should trade Goldy. I haven't figured out what anybody would give for him in return and take on his contract. If you send him out you better be able get someone that can help. I ain't figured out who that would be right now but trading Goldy won't get enough of it.
So you see systematic issues, but earlier call me out on another topic why then? This is one of many reasons I did so.
 
Keep hearing folks say they should trade Goldy. I haven't figured out what anybody would give for him in return and take on his contract. If you send him out you better be able get someone that can help. I ain't figured out who that would be right now but trading Goldy won't get enough of it.
Well, yeah...Goldy won't get enough. But Goldy, Flaherty, Montgomery (unless they think they can resign him, but given Boras is his agent they're never going to get a read), Hicks, Helsley, and possibly even Contreras and Arenado and then you've got something. Problem is, I have ZERO confidence in MO and his merry bunch of protractor carrying nerds to get quality returns that I hope they don't fire sale. Which I pretty much think they won't do. They'll do what they've always done under BDJ and MO, which is try to find as much low-hanging fruit as possible and hope it turns into a plump juicy treat. MO just isn't worth a damn at evaluating young talent, and that's a serious issue. The payroll is competitive. The product on the field isn't, in the second worst division in baseball. And it isn't going to change anytime soon if they stay the course. They view this as the anomaly. I hope it is, but personally I see it as the result of a steady decline and now they've reached a flatline of sorts.
 
Well, yeah...Goldy won't get enough. But Goldy, Flaherty, Montgomery (unless they think they can resign him, but given Boras is his agent they're never going to get a read), Hicks, Helsley, and possibly even Contreras and Arenado and then you've got something. Problem is, I have ZERO confidence in MO and his merry bunch of protractor carrying nerds to get quality returns that I hope they don't fire sale. Which I pretty much think they won't do. They'll do what they've always done under BDJ and MO, which is try to find as much low-hanging fruit as possible and hope it turns into a plump juicy treat. MO just isn't worth a damn at evaluating young talent, and that's a serious issue. The payroll is competitive. The product on the field isn't, in the second worst division in baseball. And it isn't going to change anytime soon if they stay the course. They view this as the anomaly. I hope it is, but personally I see it as the result of a steady decline and now they've reached a flatline of sorts.
Who do you guys think they can get that are any better than these mentioned here?
 
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