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Why hasn't the public caught on?

Veer2Eternity

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2005
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At the Republican debate last night in South Carolina, Republicans were happy to talk about, and denounce, the budget deficit and debt. Senator Marco Rubio said that we must “bring our debt under control.”

Mr. Rubio, like other G.O.P. candidates, rails against the deficit as a sign of President Obama’s moral failure. He advocates a balanced-budget amendment.

As a recovering Republican who retired in 2011 after serving on the House and Senate Budget Committees, I have concluded that this ritual denunciation of deficits and out-of-control spending is a fraud. Not only does the party not care about the deficit, but its practice since 1981 has been to worsen it.

We should pay particularly close attention to the Republican budget proposals from the presidential candidates in 2016. If a Republican is elected president, the party will almost surely have maintained control of Congress and, therefore, control the federal budget.

Since Mr. Rubio offers a detailed plan on taxes and spending — and since he is widely considered an “establishment” candidate — voters might carefully consider what his budget blueprint offers. Here’s the short version: It draws on fantasy math that would wreck America’s fiscal house.

On the tax side, Mr. Rubio slashes rates on personal and corporate income, and gives bigger breaks to wealthier Americans.

It doesn’t end there. Other candidates would reduce rates on capital gains and dividends, but Mr. Rubio would eliminate those taxes. He almost went out of his way to concoct a policy that would benefit the richest Americans: 79 percent of current revenue from these two taxes comes from the top 1 percent of earners, and less than 10 percent from the bottom 95 percent.

He would also end the estate tax. Republicans invariably call this the “death tax,” insinuating that it hits everyone unfortunate enough to die. Not even close: Only about 5,400 estates in America owe federal estate tax for 2015. But getting rid of it would add about $300 billion to the deficit over 10 years.

Mr. Rubio’s policies would cause a tidal wave of red ink. A repeal of the capital gains tax would cost roughly $1 trillion over 10 years While there as yet is no estimate for the cost of dividend tax repeal, my best professional guess is a minimum of $250 billion.

His entire tax package would increase the deficit by at least $4 trillion. But even Ramesh Ponnuru, a right-leaning columnist who approves of the plan, admits its price tag could be as high as $6 trillion (the plan incorporates highly optimistic economic assumptions).

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Marco Rubio during the Republican presidential debate in North Charleston, S.C. Credit Eric Thayer for The New York Times
At the same time, Mr. Rubio piles on military spending. According to a Cato Institute analyst, his all-you-can-eat Pentagon budget could cost at least an extra $1 trillion over a decade. Based on my 28-year congressional career analyzing military budgets, I’d say that’s an underestimate. Among the many programs he wants, an additional carrier battle group, extra ground combat personnel (whose pay and benefits will be with us for decades), and missile defense could easily cost more than $1 trillion. For perspective, just one item, nuclear modernization, could alone cost $1 trillion.

When I began work on Capitol Hill in 1983, President Ronald Reagan adopted policies devised by his young budget director, David Stockman, who came up with a “magic asterisk” in his documents to show that future deficits could be imagined out of existence by additional unspecified budget reductions. This deception allowed the administration to push through steep tax cuts and vast military increases. Over President Reagan’s two terms, gross federal debt nearly tripled.

Republicans have been largely budgeting by magic asterisk ever since.

In 1990, when the deficit hit almost 4 percent of gross domestic product and Reagan’s successor, George H.W. Bush, called for a package of spending reductions and tax increases, Newt Gingrich led most Republicans to oppose the measure. He became de facto minority leader.

After that, no Republican would dare suggest tax increases, regardless of his promise to balance the budget.

By 1998, when the budget was finally balanced, Republicans claimed credit because they controlled Congress. But the real reasons for the budgetary improvement were Mr. Bush’s and Bill Clinton’s deficit reduction packages, which Republicans opposed, and the improved economy of the mid-1990s, refuting the Republican assertion that even the smallest tax increase would ruin the economy.

George W. Bush followed the example of Mr. Reagan rather than his father. I was dismayed that he proposed both tax cuts and military increases after taking office while squandering the opportunity to pay down the national debt, an idea that Republicans rhetorically supported during the 1990s. His policies turned a $236 billion budget surplus he inherited in 2000 into a $459 billion deficit in 2008, while in those same eight years doubling the national debt.

He left office discredited, but most Republicans have not changed. During my last year in the Senate, in 2010, the Simpson-Bowles deficit reduction commission offered a balanced array of military and domestic cuts along with tax increases. While my boss, Judd Gregg (a rare and vanishing Republican fiscal hawk — he soon retired), voted for it, Republican deficit scolds like Representatives Paul Ryan of Wisconsin and Jeb Hensarling of Texas voted against it, and the plan failed to secure the necessary supermajority.

Mr. Rubio’s current fiscal plan is only in the middle range among the 2016 Republican contenders’ budget-busting schemes: Jeb Bush’s would add about $3.7 trillion to the deficit; Donald J. Trump’s, an eye-watering $12 trillion. Yet they all rail against what they call Mr. Obama’s fiscal irresponsibility.

Their consistently sorry fiscal record and proposals raise the question: Why hasn’t the public caught on?
 
Because restricting abortion and unlimited gun rights are more important to the typical Pub than fiscal responsibility.
 
The general public has totally incoherent views on the budget. They want more services but they don't want to pay more. It's not shocking they support candidates with incoherent views.
 
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Because restricting abortion and unlimited gun rights are more important to the typical Pub than fiscal responsibility.
Everyone says they are for fiscal responsibility until they have to make tough choices.

The difference between a generic R and a generic D is they'd rather spend on different things.
 
Why hasn't the public caught on?


Check out @NeilTurner_'s Tweet:
 
Wait, the US sold weapons to countries that have been our military allies for decades and that have been buying weapons from us for decades? We sold weapons to the our NATO allies, Saudi Arabia, etc.?

Of all the things you could come up with about the Clinton Foundation, that's what you posted? That the Obama administration sold military equipment to our allies when we've been the leading seller of military equipment for decades?

I think there are very good questions about the Foundation, but that's about the worst one.
 
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Wait, the US sold weapons to countries that have been our military allies for decades and that have been buying weapons from us for decades? We sold weapons to the our NATO allies, Saudi Arabia, etc.?

Of all the things you could come up with about the Clinton Foundation, that's what you posted? That the Obama administration sold military equipment to our allies when we've been the leading seller of military equipment for decades?

I think there are very good questions about the Foundation, but that's about the worst one.

You are a fraud. Your pseudo-intellectual nonsense is as transparent as a baggie.
You are just a verbose fake. You must think you get paid by the word.

A secretary of state should not allow the governments we are doing business with to donate to her families foundation while she is in office. Just as someone who knows she will run for president should not take millions in speaking fees from wall st.
ITS A FREAKING CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
These aren't baseball tickets she is getting from a vendor. Even if everything was legit, it shreds any confidence any one with a lick of intelligence would have in our system.

This is a disqualifier for president in a just and honest government. As I've been saying for 15 months. You are no better than Scout or Miller when it comes to honesty or logic.
 
A secretary of state should not allow the governments we are doing business with to donate to her families foundation while she is in office.
Have you bothered to read anything on this issue before tweeting a picture that was a summary of all donations ever received by the Clinton Foundation, including those made before and after she was SoS?

Your are the embodiment of Clinton Derangement Syndrome.

What's Bernie doing right now, anyway?
 
Have you bothered to read anything on this issue before tweeting a picture that was a summary of all donations ever received by the Clinton Foundation, including those made before and after she was SoS?

Oof.

OK so she accepted no donations while in office. This is your typical bullshi*. You are the Democrat Miller. Bullheaded to the point of being ridiculous.

I guess she didn't give wall st speeches either. Or maybe she didn't know she was going to run for president. OOF.
 
Did her foundation receive donations from governments while she was Sec of State?
Waaaaaaaaa! The woman I keep defending is corrupt. You are a fraud.
 
Did she accept donations from governments while Sec. of State? Yes or No.
 
You are a fraud. Your pseudo-intellectual nonsense is as transparent as a baggie.
You are just a verbose fake. You must think you get paid by the word.

A secretary of state should not allow the governments we are doing business with to donate to her families foundation while she is in office. Just as someone who knows she will run for president should not take millions in speaking fees from wall st.
ITS A FREAKING CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
These aren't baseball tickets she is getting from a vendor. Even if everything was legit, it shreds any confidence any one with a lick of intelligence would have in our system.

This is a disqualifier for president in a just and honest government. As I've been saying for 15 months. You are no better than Scout or Miller when it comes to honesty or logic.
Ducky you must slow down because sometimes you sound like Miller and WCS
 
I thought cutting taxes was evil?

It is when you continue spending like a drunk sailor on shore leave.

I'll try to make this simple for you.

Trump : massive tax cut + increased spending = bad. National debt get bigger.

Johnson : tax cut + decreased spending = good. Fiscally responsible.

Was that simple enough or do I need to break out the crayons?
 
Did she accept donations from governments while Sec. of State? Yes or No.

I'm also waiting.

If you can respond with a well thought out rebuttal of my extensive link in 4 minutes, I would assume you could answer this question in less than 3 hours.
 
It is when you continue spending like a drunk sailor on shore leave.

I'll try to make this simple for you.

Trump : massive tax cut + increased spending = bad. National debt get bigger.

Johnson : tax cut + decreased spending = good. Fiscally responsible.

Was that simple enough or do I need to break out the crayons?


I'm confused,

According to NM, budget deficits are good, trade deficits are good and debt is good.

What did I miss?
 
she didn't accept anything as she was disassociated from the foundation.

The foundation and the administration reached a deal on how foreign donations would be handled in advance of her becoming SOS. They complied with that agreement. It allow for current donors to continue to fund at their current level.
 
Bob and weave.

Hypocrite much ?

It's cute how you're trying to piggyback off Duck, but NM hasn't ducked anything. You just either:

A. Weren't paying attention.

B. Don't understand.

C. Are just trolling.

I don't know which it is, although I could guess. Ultimately I really don't care.
 
My point is that the US is not at full employment, it has moderate but not great economic and wage growth, and it has access to absurdly cheap debt. The idea that it is spending a little bit to try to promote growth, employment, and wages can be a good idea as long as that spending is limited in a manner that accounts for GDP growth.

We are coming out of the worst economic crisis in 75 years and the government has underinvested in retraining people like coal miners and others who need to move into another industry based upon secular economic trends.
 
It's cute how you're trying to piggyback off Duck, but NM hasn't ducked anything. You just either:

A. Weren't paying attention.

B. Don't understand.

C. Are just trolling.

I don't know which it is, although I could guess. Ultimately I really don't care.

Than why post ?
 
My point is that the US is not at full employment, it has moderate but not great economic and wage growth, and it has access to absurdly cheap debt. The idea that it is spending a little bit to try to promote growth, employment, and wages can be a good idea as long as that spending is limited in a manner that accounts for GDP growth.

We are coming out of the worst economic crisis in 75 years and the government has underinvested in retraining people like coal miners and others who need to move into another industry based upon secular economic trends.

I respect this post, but

We are 17,000,000,000 in debt, .

What are our plans to pay this off?

Or, do we care ?
 
Ducky you must slow down because sometimes you sound like Miller and WCS

VB, I have worked with people like Mr. Peabody and Sherman here on mosports. They don't tell it like it is. But they think they do. Acting like we have a good option in this election takes lying to yourself and others.
 
VB, I have worked with people like Mr. Peabody and Sherman here on mosports. They don't tell it like it is. But they think they do. Acting like we have a good option in this election takes lying to yourself and others.

We do have a good option.
 
VB, I have worked with people like Mr. Peabody and Sherman here on mosports. They don't tell it like it is. But they think they do. Acting like we have a good option in this election takes lying to yourself and others.
We have a clearly better option. It's not about good.
 
I am not advocating for Trump, he is horrible. I just think he knows more about economics than Hillary.
250,000 more jobs added this month and 4.9% unemployment.. I'm not saying these are great numbers, but if they continue through Nov. I don't think Trump will have a chance. That is a big if.:)
 
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