Which GM turned down Gossage for a job because he couldn't do math?
- Thread starter Neutron Monster
- Start date
I have been thinking these exact words.
All true. They really don't know S----.
You can't quantify leadership or guts.
And a lot of their measurements are guesses.
"The game is becoming a freaking joke because of the nerds who are running it. I'll tell you what has happened, these guys played Rotisserie baseball at Harvard or wherever the f--- they went and they thought they figured the f---ing game out. They don't know s---."
Goose Gossage
All true. They really don't know S----.
You can't quantify leadership or guts.
And a lot of their measurements are guesses.
"The game is becoming a freaking joke because of the nerds who are running it. I'll tell you what has happened, these guys played Rotisserie baseball at Harvard or wherever the f--- they went and they thought they figured the f---ing game out. They don't know s---."
Goose Gossage
There's a lot to understand about people, and there's a lot that can't be quantified, but the problem with his whole argument is that there is a huge correlation between teams that are doing well and teams that have taken to running the team like a business including the use of analytical measures. The Cards have been run by a non-pro since 2007 and it's worked very, very well. Mozeliak and Luhnow both have shown strong results in their roles, including Luhnow's work in Houston. Look at the Cubs, Red Sox, and countless others for more examples of this.
The problem is that the old baseball guys who ignore the new world like Ruben Amaro are getting killed by the business people like Mozeliak. It's not that you have to be an outsider - look at Billy Beane. You just have to acknowledge that you can learn something from the numbers, and that you have to take a long-term approach to managing your budget and your roster given the financial reality of the game.
The problem is that the old baseball guys who ignore the new world like Ruben Amaro are getting killed by the business people like Mozeliak. It's not that you have to be an outsider - look at Billy Beane. You just have to acknowledge that you can learn something from the numbers, and that you have to take a long-term approach to managing your budget and your roster given the financial reality of the game.
"I believe the flaw in the methodology is that sabermetrics are designed to evaluate individual players, and do not take into account the combination effects of players on a team. In particular, the methods tend to devalue pitching, because it sees the function as run suppression, but ignores the emotional impact that team pitching has on the rest of the team. When pitchers are doing well, holding back the opposition, their teammates feel more confident at the plate, getting more base hits, and more extra base hits. In the field also, position players feel more comfortable taking chances to make great plays instead of taking the safer route. By contrast, when the pitching is poor, hitters become anxious, not wanting to waste an at-bat, often going deep into counts only to strike out or pop up. Fielders are tense, afraid of screwing up, and may not dive after that ground ball or leap for a line drive. The sabermetric guys will look at the season-ending stats and say, “well of course they lost… they failed to make plays, and their OBP was down.” But there is a cause-and-effect relationship between good pitching and good play by the rest of the team."
On top of this person's opinion, you can't measure leadership, communication skills with teammates, value of mentors, emotion, attitude, or effort.
On top of this person's opinion, you can't measure leadership, communication skills with teammates, value of mentors, emotion, attitude, or effort.
Whoever wrote that is pretty ignorant because that topic has been researched to death. This is an extremely easy idea to prove or disprove. There's no evidence that supports what he is saying. Hitters don't magically play better because their pitcher gave up 1 run instead of 10 runs.
When they say nonsense like this they cause the sabes to tune them out when they make other points that are valid.
The real reason sabermetrics "devalues" pitching is because it acknowledges that a chunk of what we perceive as pitching is really defense. There's a big difference between having prime Torii Hunter behind you and the average CF.
