What would you do in this situation?

[bird_4_3]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/refere...gh-school-players-kneel-anthem-223647262.html
I am not sure I would walk off the field, I was hired to do a job. The kids that did not kneel should not be punished also. However, I do applaud them for standing up for what they believe in.

 

[Mike*Honcho]

I do applaud them for standing up for what they believe in.

Are you referring to the people kneeling or the people not kneeling?

 

[bird_4_3]

The officials walking out. I would not do it, but if they feel that strongly about the situation they have the right to walk off the field. The players are expressing their "freedom of speech" and the officials expressed their "freedom of response".

 

[Mike*Honcho]

I'm not taking sides in this but there is no freedom of speech when you are at work.

 

[bird_4_3]

I agree with that, I would not have walked off. Seems like a publicity stunt to me. You are punishing the kids who are not involved in the protest.

 

[wcfanfourever]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/refere...gh-school-players-kneel-anthem-223647262.html
I am not sure I would walk off the field, I was hired to do a job. The kids that did not kneel should not be punished also. However, I do applaud them for standing up for what they believe in.

I would have stood there with my hand over my heart while the anthem was being played. Then I would have thrown a flag on those players every play, all game long

 

[Mike*Honcho]

I would have stood there with my hand over my heart while the anthem was being played. Then I would have thrown a flag on those players every play, all game long

In other words, you would sacrifice your integrity and job to make a political statement? That's dumb.

 

[wcfanfourever]

In other words, you would sacrifice your integrity and job to make a political statement? That's dumb.

I lost a brother during Vietnam, never even got his body back I figure I would be standing up for his integrity.

Being a high school official isn't a job

Not a Political statement, its a patriotic statement, tens of thousands of men have died defending our country under that flag. If I was coaching and any player did that they would never see the field again

 

[runbillyrun]

I lost a brother during Vietnam, never even got his body back I figure I would be standing up for his integrity.

Being a high school official isn't a job

Not a Political statement, its a patriotic statement, tens of thousands of men have died defending our country under that flag. If I was coaching and any player did that they would never see the field again

My sentiments EXACTLY. I am all for "peaceful protest", but in my opinion, that is not the time or the place.

 

[Mike*Honcho]

If you think you need to sacrifice your integrity to stand up for another, go ahead, but that's not how integrity works. Either you have it or you don't.

 

[Mike*Honcho]

My sentiments EXACTLY. I am all for peaceful protest, but in my opinion, that is not the time or the place.

People who make such statements usually say "Don't be violent!" When people peacefully protest, they say "Don't protest there!" They move their protest and get "This is not the time for protest."

What exactly is the correct time and place? And why do you get to decide for them when, how, and where they should protest? If you had a need to protest would you seek out advice from others (who are likely your opposition) about when, how, and where it would be appropriate?

 

[STL_Dan]

Lunardelli (the elder official) said he told the officials’ assigner weeks before that he would vacate a game in which there were player protests.
“No, I don’t recall that ever, having a conversation with him about walking off the field ever,” Paulikas told NJ Advance Media. “He’s a very good official and I’m very surprised that they did what they did.”

- The episode raises a broader issue about whether officials who are vehemently opposed to that form of expression should recuse themselves if they know ahead of time that a protest is likely.

- Then there’s the logistical issue of being able to play the game; chain crew workers were used to replace the Lunardellis on Friday.

If the officials are not in immediate physical danger, and only their sensibilities or ethics are being briefly challenged, then there is absolutely no reason to "leave the kids hanging". These officials agreed to officiate a game - an important game because everyone in that stadium worked their butts off all week and all year to be in that game at that time. Without a full crew of state sanctioned officials working the game (even jv and middle school games use 4 sanctioned officials, not 3), the game is reduced to glorified recess.

There has to be CRYSTAL CLEAR communication and expectations between the officials and their assignor prior to this game and season. Without it, this is the type of extreme nuttiness that can happen.

“There are issues that need to be addressed but I don’t think they need to be addressed by officials. Worry about the game, the procedures. I would hope they would all stay out of it.”

I have to agree with this philosophy.

Unless there is a strong belief that there is going to be physical violence that is going to lead to injury to themselves or other participants, there is no reason to immediately recuse from ANY game.

 

[csnANDy]

You've been hired to do a job. You do your job to the best of your ability. We don't have to like or agree with the people around whom we work, but we do our jobs the best we can regardless because that is what makes America great.

 

[MIZZOU71]

The officials have the same rights as the people that are kneeling. There are greater consequences for them, but they have the right to walk out. Whether you agree with it or not. They do. Just like not agreeing with the people that are kneeling, they have the right to do it. There are consequences for all actions. Consequences do not remove the rights you have, they only filter them.

 

[wcowherd]

The officials have the same rights as the people that are kneeling. There are greater consequences for them, but they have the right to walk out. Whether you agree with it or not. They do. Just like not agreeing with the people that are kneeling, they have the right to do it. There are consequences for all actions. Consequences do not remove the rights you have, they only filter them.

The officials absolutely have the right to walk out. That doesn’t protect them from being fired from their jobs, however.

 

[wcowherd]

The racist Facebook page is a nice touch, though.

 

[MIZZOU71]

The officials absolutely have the right to walk out. That doesn’t protect them from being fired from their jobs, however.

That was included in the word Consequences.....
And were you talking to me about a racist facebook page???

 

[J.Moxon]

This is the way the Mox see's it:


In America we have laws.
Laws against killing.
Laws against stealing.
It's accepted that, as a member of
society, you will live by these laws.
In West Canaan, Texas, there's
another society that has its own laws.
Football is a way of life.
I'm Jonathan Moxon,
but most people call me Mox.
As a boy in West Canaan, you never
question the sanctity of football.
You just listened to the coaches
and tried as best you could to win.
Win at all costs.

 

[Mike*Honcho]

The "racist facebook page" comment was referencing the elder official that walked out: "The emotion of the story ratcheted up again over the weekend as NJ Advance Media found racially offensive social media posts by the elder referee, Ernie Lunardelli. On Jan. 21, he reportedly posted under a photo of former President Barack Obama, “Thanks for [expletive] up the country!! Back to the zoo!!”"

 

[PlayerTwo]

I'm not taking sides in this but there is no freedom of speech when you are at work.

So to be clear....the players in the NFL aren't at work?

 

[Mike*Honcho]

So to be clear....the players in the NFL aren't at work?

I didn't say that at all. They absolutely are at work.

 

[BoosterBosko]

I'm not taking sides in this but there is no freedom of speech when you are at work.

No freedom of speech at work?!? Have you ever worked in a steel mill?? Me and the guys say whatever the heck we please, whenever we want!

 

[wcowherd]

That was included in the word Consequences.....
And were you talking to me about a racist facebook page???

No, that was a general comment about the official’s Facebook.

 

[BoosterBosko]

This is the way the Mox see's it:


In America we have laws.
Laws against killing.
Laws against stealing.
It's accepted that, as a member of
society, you will live by these laws.
In West Canaan, Texas, there's
another society that has its own laws.
Football is a way of life.
I'm Jonathan Moxon,
but most people call me Mox.
As a boy in West Canaan, you never
question the sanctity of football.
You just listened to the coaches
and tried as best you could to win.
Win at all costs.

Brown educated lawyer right there folks.......

 

[STL_Dan]

To those saying officials "have the right" to walk off the job - you may, or, may not have a point.

H.S. officials receive form 1099's (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1099msc.pdf) from their assignors, not form W-2's (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw2.pdf).

What does this mean? Simply put, H.S. officials are self employed. In that sense, yes, they can "do whatever they want" in these types of situations.

However, officials also agree, contractually, to work each and every game assigned to them by literally "checking a box" when accepting games from their assignor through the use of their assignor's assigning software. At the end of the day, the official is accountable to their assignor and/or state association (the latter if a game is a state playoff game).

If an official desires to stay in the good graces of his assignor and/or state association - it would behoove him or her to work the assigned game unless there is crystal clear communication and approval given to remove oneself from the game.

 

[Mitsurugi san]

I have to say, I agree with almost everything Honcho and Cowherd have said in this thread.

The first amendment protects you from prosecution and from being infringed BY THE GOVERNMENT; people tend to forget that they are still accountable for their actions in every other aspect of life (relationships, employment, etc.)

And the racist FB posts of the older of these two refs (who are father and son, BTW) significantly hurts the “you must stand” side of this whole debate.

 

[runbillyrun]

People who make such statements usually say "Don't be violent!" When people peacefully protest, they say "Don't protest there!" They move their protest and get "This is not the time for protest."

What exactly is the correct time and place? And why do you get to decide for them when, how, and where they should protest? If you had a need to protest would you seek out advice from others (who are likely your opposition) about when, how, and where it would be appropriate?

Nice job of categorizing people. Is that not part of the problem? "Correct time & place" - I have zero say of "When" is the right time or place, but there are 24 hours a day. The anthem play's, per typical football schedule, Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday (noon, afternoon, evening) Sunday (noon, afternoon, evening) Monday night. so about 23 minutes of the week. That leaves folks another 167 hours and 37 minutes to choose. Why do you get to decide when they can? My wife & I adopted, at birth, 1 - 1/2 Mexican 1/2 white kid, & one 1/2 Black 1/2 white kid --> no one need's to tell me there are issues out there, we are very aware of it. However, disrespecting others during your protest will backfire. See NFL ratings.

 

[bullitpdq68]

No freedom of speech at work?!? Have you ever worked in a steel mill?? Me and the guys say whatever the heck we please, whenever we want!

Bosko Like the sort of Matt Lauer & Charlie Rose type of freedom at work?
Bosko did you get sacked at the steel....

 

[shoot90draw]

Bosko Like the sort of Matt Lauer & Charlie Rose type of freedom at work?
Bosko did you get sacked at the steel....

Im glad its only the Doc Guys noticing his absence. Im sure some of things being said at the steel mill would be considered the Matt Lauer and Charlie Rose type......