Verlander, Scherzer, and Price.

[Duck_walk]

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph. They just trumped Money Ball

 

[vbsideout]

wow that would scare me gong into a 7 game series

 

[Duck_walk]

Those are the last three AL CY Young winners

 

[The Rumor]

Two of them are still great. Verlander isn't the same guy. K rate down a ton. Velocity down. He's nothing to be afraid of.

 

[Duck_walk]

Ole Jeff Sullivan could probably find some positive metrics to say everything is going to be ok.

 

[Drop.Tine]

Scherzer would look good with the Cardinals next year.

 

[Duck_walk]

I agree. But based what we saw today, I don't see the cards spending a lot of money. They dumped Craig's contract and have Taveras under control and they only have to pay Lackey a half mil. next year. We might win anyway with no real powerhouse in the NL. MO could squeeze blood out of a nickel

 

[The Rumor]

Originally posted by Duck_walk:
Ole Jeff Sullivan could probably find some positive metrics to say everything is going to be ok.

Sabes have analyzed him to death. There are no real signs he'll ever be the same guy.

 

[The Rumor]

Originally posted by Duck_walk:
I agree. But based what we saw today, I don't see the cards spending a lot of money. They dumped Craig's contract and have Taveras under control and they only have to pay Lackey a half mil. next year. We might win anyway with no real powerhouse in the NL. MO could squeeze blood out of a nickel

Flexibility has value. Cards turned Craig's money and the money that may have been used for another SP into budget space. That could be used for whatever is the need come 2015.

It seems like MO runs with a philosophy like the following:

- Build a long term core (Waino, Holliday, M Carpenter, Yadi, Allen Craig) with long-term deals. Matt Adams is probably next.

- Make space for the kids who can play at low cost (Miller, Wacha, Wong, Taveras)

- Fill in holes with older vets on short deals (mostly 1-2 years). Let the ones who want too big a deal go away (Beltran in 2014, Suppan to MIL, etc.) Who is the last FA vet we signed besides Peralta to a deal longer than 2 years? Guys like Molina and Holliday were really extensions.

I would argue that Lackey/Craig + Kelly is expressly designed to say:

- Cards don't see Craig in the long-term plan anymore, not at that price

- Lackey is a cheap vet who gives them space to sign something else this offseason - be it another SP, an OF, a 2B, etc.

 

[Cards1968]

Originally posted by The Rumor:

Originally posted by Duck_walk:
I agree. But based what we saw today, I don't see the cards spending a lot of money. They dumped Craig's contract and have Taveras under control and they only have to pay Lackey a half mil. next year. We might win anyway with no real powerhouse in the NL. MO could squeeze blood out of a nickel

Flexibility has value. Cards turned Craig's money and the money that may have been used for another SP into budget space. That could be used for whatever is the need come 2015.

It seems like MO runs with a philosophy like the following:

- Build a long term core (Waino, Holliday, M Carpenter, Yadi, Allen Craig) with long-term deals. Matt Adams is probably next.

- Make space for the kids who can play at low cost (Miller, Wacha, Wong, Taveras)

- Fill in holes with older vets on short deals (mostly 1-2 years). Let the ones who want too big a deal go away (Beltran in 2014, Suppan to MIL, etc.) Who is the last FA vet we signed besides Peralta to a deal longer than 2 years? Guys like Molina and Holliday were really extensions.

I would argue that Lackey/Craig + Kelly is expressly designed to say:

- Cards don't see Craig in the long-term plan anymore, not at that price

- Lackey is a cheap vet who gives them space to sign something else this offseason - be it another SP, an OF, a 2B, etc.

This post was edited on 7/31 6:45 PM by Cards1968

 

[vbsideout]

That's about right Rumor. I trust MO! This team has been competitive since day 1 of his tenure. I don't always agree, but I am the one that is wrong most of the time!

 

[3Rfan]

How is it that any major league starter, especially a veteran, these days had an option for only $500k? Is it set up for he and Kelly to oppose each other for their new teams next week?

 

[The Rumor]

Originally posted by 3Rfan:
How is it that any major league starter, especially a veteran, these days had an option for only $500k? Is it set up for he and Kelly to oppose each other for their new teams next week?

Theo Epstein, that's why.

 

[Drop.Tine]

Originally posted by vbsideout:

That's about right Rumor. I trust Matheny! This team has been competitive since day 1 of his tenure. I don't always agree, but I am the one that is wrong most of the time!

Fixed it for you.

 

[vbsideout]

I don't trust Matheny as much as MO. MM has done a good job, but I think his stubbornness with playing Craig and not Oscar forced MO's hand. One of them had to go and it was Craig, which I think will turn out to be a good move.

 

[Drop.Tine]

Originally posted by vbsideout:

I don't trust Matheny as much as MO. MM has done a good job, but I think his stubbornness with playing Craig and not Oscar forced MO's hand. One of them had to go and it was Craig, which I think will turn out to be a good move.

We'll see. Oscar hasn't impressed me much for the hype he was given when coming up. Hope he settles in now that the competition is gone.

 

[The Rumor]

If the Cards are going to be really good in the next couple years, some of their younger hitters have to develop (Wong, Taveras, Grichuk, etc.). There's only so much budget to go around.

 

[wccards21]

Originally posted by The Rumor:

Originally posted by Duck_walk:
Ole Jeff Sullivan could probably find some positive metrics to say everything is going to be ok.

Sabes have analyzed him to death. There are no real signs he'll ever be the same guy.

Don't care what his season stats are, ask Oakland..... He is a buzzsaw in the playoffs. Let's match em up

Scherzer-Gray
Price-Kazmir
Verlander-Shark

I'm going to take Verlander over Shark every time.

 

[Duck_walk]

I wonder what the sabre boys thought about roger Clemens when he was losing it in his thirties and suddenly became cy young again. Ill bet those boys had him written off.

 

[3Rfan]

I'll bet they thought what most people thought. I still think it, you just don't magically get better as a pitcher at that age without a little somethin to help you along.