I like the idea of starting the girls two weeks earlier so the boys and the girls can have the own state finals at different weekends. Not really sure about 6 classes but I like the idea of girls starting earlier. Just seen the new proposal in the MBCA newsletter.
Thoughts on New tournament proposal for boys and girls.
- Thread starter Hoosier 1
- Start date
Dumb idea that MSHSAA thinks can suck more money out of having separate tournaments for the boys and the girls. Greedy.
Not going to help small schools. Many of these small towns have both teams competing in the tournament. It gets into your budget to support both teams on different weekends. Also messes with volleyball which is a very popular sport for girls and likely would hurt the basketball programs due to overrun of the volleyball tournament. Why change something that is working just to be changing? And MSHSAA is greedy.
I'm sorry, but when teams earn the right to play in the championships, and they have to pay for their own lodging, food, and transportation, and their communities have to pay to get in...all I see is greed.
I coached in Indiana for several years and it worked well there.
1. Girls and boys got their own state tournament weekend.
2. Opened up gym space especially for the smaller schools.
3. Best Officials did the State Finals
4. Gave the girls teams the chance to play on Friday nights before the boys started.
Indiana did have to tweak the Volleyball season but overall, it worked out well.
I coach in Indiana and all of these are great reasons. Especially coaching at a small school. I was going to say these very things.
One of the things i love about Missouri is that Boys and Girls play at same time. Last year at the district championship in Centralia was a fantastic environment when girls and boys were back to back. Some of the best fan environments have been when both genders play the same day in postseason. I take issue with saying “boys” fans and “girls” fans. What will happen is there will be fractured fans. I am a fan of high school basketball, not a fan of just one gender. Additionally, this would require small schools to schedule girls only games for first two weeks and boys only for last two weeks. It makes it more difficult for these schools because they have to find officials for those games too adding additional costs to their budget. It is the most terrible, horrible, worst idea ever proposed by MSHSAA and should be dismissed immediately and never brought up again.
1. Girls and boys got their own state tournament weekend.
So you are basically treating girls and second class by saying they are not good enough to play at same time as boys.
2. Opened up gym space especially for the smaller schools.
There are plenty of places to play games in the state. This is a non-issue.
3. Best Officials did the State Finals
Not sure how separating boys and girls gives you better refs than today’s format.
4. Gave the girls teams the chance to play on Friday nights before the boys started.
Girls teams play on Friday night all the time in Missouri.
So you are basically treating girls and second class by saying they are not good enough to play at same time as boys.
2. Opened up gym space especially for the smaller schools.
There are plenty of places to play games in the state. This is a non-issue.
3. Best Officials did the State Finals
Not sure how separating boys and girls gives you better refs than today’s format.
4. Gave the girls teams the chance to play on Friday nights before the boys started.
Girls teams play on Friday night all the time in Missouri.
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I am talking gym space at your local high schools. Some schools only have one gym and have to go late or early in the morning. Separating seasons opens the gym up after school.
The school I coach at in Missouri the girls only play one regular season Friday night game.
In Indiana they changed the seasons like the proposal because of Title Nine and giving girls more prime night games.
It freed up more fans in Indiana to watch both because sectionals and state tournament games were not always held at the same places as the boys.
I am just saying it worked well in Indiana.
At most small schools in Missouri, the girls and the boys play the same night. Most small schools play MANY Friday night games. This is TERRIBLE for small schools. The sectionals and state tournaments are already held at the same site in Missouri, so there is no conflict in watching both. So the Indiana model is not solving a problem that Missouri has. Small schools have also figured out how to have practices. They would rather have that "problem" than the ones that would be created by separating the seasons.
Here is a solution to not having Friday night games for girls: SCHEDULE FRIDAY NIGHT GAMES. If the boys also have Friday night games, schedule them on the same night at the same location and play them back to back. Having separate state tournaments is not the solution if the goal is to have more Friday night games for girls.
It seems this is a solution in search of a problem. Things could always be worse. Imagine being in Kansas where all six classes play on the exact same dates in six different locations.
Can you imagine being in Kansas City and trying to decide if you would rather A) Drive six hours to Dodge City and watch Class 1 basketball, or B) Not drive six hours to Dodge City and go anywhere else instead.
http://kshsaa.org/Public/Basketball/State.cfm
Can you imagine being in Kansas City and trying to decide if you would rather A) Drive six hours to Dodge City and watch Class 1 basketball, or B) Not drive six hours to Dodge City and go anywhere else instead.
http://kshsaa.org/Public/Basketball/State.cfm
I am not saying it will work in Missouri and maybe it will not. Just saying it worked well in Indiana. State tournaments are set up different in each state. I am at a class 4 school in Missouri and our girls won the district last year and had about 10 minutes to celebrate before the boys teams took the floor which we were in also. Girls had no net cutting and no real time to celebrate on the court. Kind of disappointing . Same thing happened at the sectional game. Not sure how small schools do it in Missouri.
Went to the state championships in Class 4 and 5 and the crowds were terrible. Had the girls in one gym and the boys in another at MSU. Remember watching Rogersville play in the semifinals and there was maybe 1,000 people there for a final four game.
My understanding was that there was great crowds for the smaller class games. Maybe a situation where the bigger schools just need to get bigger crowds.
Went to the state championships in Class 4 and 5 and the crowds were terrible. Had the girls in one gym and the boys in another at MSU. Remember watching Rogersville play in the semifinals and there was maybe 1,000 people there for a final four game.
My understanding was that there was great crowds for the smaller class games. Maybe a situation where the bigger schools just need to get bigger crowds.
Crowds are terrible for larger schools in general. I have noticed that when we have played larger schools. There are exceptions, but communities don’t support larger schools like they do in smaller towns. This will not change that. Also teams are not even allowed to cut down nets in Missouri. I have seen some do it, but it is against the rules. And you can always allow extra time between games for pictures. I have also seen sites do that. There are solutions to these problems that don’t involve completely disrupting the entire system.
Not saying that I agree... But, most small schools around here dont play Boys and Girls on the same night, it does happen occasionally. Girls are usually Monday-Thursday and Boys Tuesday-Friday.
Kind of sucks it is against the rules to cut down the nets. Playing in Indiana and coaching those were great memories of getting to cut the net down. Kind of strange.
I have never understood the reasoning or mentality of playing boys and girls on different nights. You are basically saying boys basketball is more important by giving them the Friday game. In most small North Missouri schools/conferences, they play boys/girls doubleheader’s. In many cases, they also play JV before.
Reason for not playing boys and girls is simple if you have enough kids to play full JV games people don't want to play 4 games on one night and start the last Varsity game at 9 pm. At small schools where you don't play JV it makes sense to play girls and boys Varsity same night. If you have JV and 9th grade teams makes more sense to play girls and boys separate nights. Problem I have seen is when schools do have enough kids to play JV games but then don't play but a quarter or half a JV game because girls and boys are the same night, which hurts the development of your JV kids.
Girls were not playing on Prime nights which was Friday and Saturday night and it was decided it was a Title IX issue because boys got to and girls did not.
Or you play JV on separate nights. A lot of Class 2 and 3 schools do that. And some play in separate gyms on same night (junior high gym vs high school).
Seems to me that many Southeast MO schools rarely play boys and girls on the same night.
If you have kids that split time between JV and Varsity if you are playing many JV games on separate nights those kids either aren't playing or you aren't following MSHSAA quarter rules. I would be interested in knowing how many class 2 and 3 schools regularly play JV games on separate nights not just a few games to fill out a schedule. And a lot of small schools don't have separate gyms. Maybe things are done differently in different parts of the state.
I went to the MSHSAA meeting yesterday it was more than 80/20 against. We were told that we were not in the majority across the state. At my school we play JH season before and it already overlaps a little. It is hard getting enough gym time. We also play boys and girls together every night but two. It will cost us significantly more $ if this goes through.
Once again, I DON'T CARE!!! If it means going to six classes in boys basketball, with Glendale staying in Class 5, I'M FULLY BEHIND IT! Thank you!
There aren't enough officials in the suburban/large school areas. If boys and girls both play on Friday nights, not enough officials to go around. I suppose you could randomly put boys on Thursday and girls on Friday, but that messes with the T/F and M/R days off between games. Not a good situation.
Not sure a decision should be made based solely on a few facts for smaller schools. You're basically trying to make a decision to not change based on about 15-20% of the schools in the state. And not all factors would be a negative for those small schools, all while the other 80-85% of the schools benefit.
This was just a straw poll at the membership meetings. At the meeting I attended in Sedalia it was over 80/20 against. However to my knowledge it will go to a vote of the member schools in the spring.
That's the case in what I would assume is 80% of the schools in the state. Small schools (C1) typically play V girls followed by V boys on Tuesday and Friday. "JV" isn't really a thing, as a lot of schools play a "JH' schedule that includes 9th graders. This is probably more of a north MO thing than anywhere else for the C1 folks.
I think the separation has more to do with some private schools getting moved up or down classes based solely on their boy's championship factor. By separating the two you have the opportunity to then have a private girl's basketball team be in a different class than the private boy's basketball team.
