Think I've got the Public/Private issue fixed.

[DirtyDan17]

Now that MSHSAA is checking enrollment every year, it wouldn't be that hard to pull this off.

If a team (public or private) has 5 or more kids with a verified NCAA D1 offer on July 1st of the season, they are placed in Class 6.

This wouldn't affect a majority of teams, including most private schools in any given year, but it solves the recruiting issue. If a team wants to stockpile talent fine, have 25 D1 kids at a school with 150 boys in it. You just have to actually work for your postseason success.

Ultimately that benefits everyone. Those scholarships that some on here want to pound their chests about won't have a shadow of a doubt as to how they were earned. No one will be able to say they only look good because they're beating up on teams that cant match up athletically.

The kids themselves benefit because college competition won't be as big a shock. Yeah I know they go to exposure camps and stuff, but football in shorts is different than actually playing. Who does the athletes at Trinity, Lutheran North, and Cardinal Ritter benefit from playing more? Grandview and Carnahan or CBC, Vianney, and Kirkwood?

 

[Fort80]

I'm not sure how you could "verify" every D1 offer. Colleges would have to be involved I would think.

 

[DirtyDan17]

I'm not sure how you could "verify" every D1 offer. Colleges would have to be involved I would think.

I can get on 247sports, Rivals, Scout, or ESPN right now and get a general idea if a kid has been offered or not.

 

[DirtyDan17]

I have to wonder if some of that stuff on there is valid, though.

Valid concern. Idk, treat it like a term paper and seek out multiple sources. They all usually have a gauge for college interest and another that states whether or not the school has made an offer or not. Heck, most schools will tweet out who they made offers to when the offer is made.

And let's be honest #scholarshiphigh cant help but promote how many kids on the team have been offered and by who.

 

[BPcompete]

Now that MSHSAA is checking enrollment every year, it wouldn't be that hard to pull this off.

If a team (public or private) has 5 or more kids with a verified NCAA D1 offer on July 1st of the season, they are placed in Class 6.

This wouldn't affect a majority of teams, including most private schools in any given year, but it solves the recruiting issue. If a team wants to stockpile talent fine, have 25 D1 kids at a school with 150 boys in it. You just have to actually work for your postseason success.

Ultimately that benefits everyone. Those scholarships that some on here want to pound their chests about won't have a shadow of a doubt as to how they were earned. No one will be able to say they only look good because they're beating up on teams that cant match up athletically.

The kids themselves benefit because college competition won't be as big a shock. Yeah I know they go to exposure camps and stuff, but football in shorts is different than actually playing. Who does the athletes at Trinity, Lutheran North, and Cardinal Ritter benefit from playing more? Grandview and Carnahan or CBC, Vianney, and Kirkwood?

D1 offer doesnt mean better. This is High school at the end of the day. This would be incredibly hard to regulate as well.

 

[JNreturns]

Now that MSHSAA is checking enrollment every year, it wouldn't be that hard to pull this off.

If a team (public or private) has 5 or more kids with a verified NCAA D1 offer on July 1st of the season, they are placed in Class 6.

This wouldn't affect a majority of teams, including most private schools in any given year, but it solves the recruiting issue. If a team wants to stockpile talent fine, have 25 D1 kids at a school with 150 boys in it. You just have to actually work for your postseason success.

Ultimately that benefits everyone. Those scholarships that some on here want to pound their chests about won't have a shadow of a doubt as to how they were earned. No one will be able to say they only look good because they're beating up on teams that cant match up athletically.

The kids themselves benefit because college competition won't be as big a shock. Yeah I know they go to exposure camps and stuff, but football in shorts is different than actually playing. Who does the athletes at Trinity, Lutheran North, and Cardinal Ritter benefit from playing more? Grandview and Carnahan or CBC, Vianney, and Kirkwood?

Does that include D1 scholarships for other sports? Thats one thing I notice that kind of goes under the radar. In 2015, one of Kearney's best players wasn't on any football lists BECAUSE he had already signed D1 for baseball. He was hurt and didn't play at state (which would have led to K beating WC by 14 more points probably, but...)

 

[JNreturns]

I have to wonder if some of that stuff on there is valid, though.

I’m picturing HS coaches telling their kids: “Now, if you accept that scholarship now from State U, we’re going to have to compete in class 6, so can you wait....?”

I like the premise, but methinks it would hard to regulate without exacerbating the issue.

I agree that 12 D1 recruits at a class 2 or 3 is laughable.

Escpecially when they are brought in after their soph year. I think that is where you go with this...hard scrutiny on allowing upper classmen to be eligible.

 

[JNreturns]

I’d guess this is pretty rare; however, the best football player I ever coached was in the same scenario. He wouldn’t even entertain the idea of speaking with any football recruiters.

This guy played on Lee's Summit West monster team of 2013...I think he was a three star in football, offered by Nebraska...but the MLB was calling. When LSW needed yards, they just did fade routes to him...nobody from K could stop him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Harrison

 

[use_da_dive]

This guy played on Lee's Summit West monster team of 2013...I think he was a three star in football, offered by Nebraska...but the MLB was calling. When LSW needed yards, they just did fade routes to him...nobody from K could stop him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Harrison

Monte Harrison I believe was his name....for awhile was with the brewers organization and was highly touted. not sure if injury bug or what hit him. But that LS team was the best team of any class that year. I believe they went on to win Class 6 the next year too (but could be mistaken)...I actually think if it wasn't for them, Kpoo might have won class 5 that year, they were salty that year.

 

[JNreturns]

Monte Harrison I believe was his name....for awhile was with the brewers organization and was highly touted. not sure if injury bug or what hit him. But that LS team was the best team of any class that year. I believe they went on to win Class 6 the next year too (but could be mistaken)...I actually think if it wasn't for them, Kpoo might have won class 5 that year, they were salty that year.

Staley actually gave them the closest game.
They beat:
#2 in Class 5 Kearney (MO) (42-14),
#4 in Class 5 Parkway Central (51-14),
#5 in Class 5 Kickapoo (51-14),
#7 in Class 5 Staley (28-14),
#9 in Class 5 Park Hill South (41-21

 

[FBisLife12]

How about you all put on your Big Girl Panties and volunteer so you can make your favorite, local public school team better?

I don’t recall Lamar or Webb bitching and suggesting (let’s keep it 100% here) INSANELY DESPERATE rule changes to MSHSAA the years they won State.

College offers aren’t guaranteed. It’s a way to let kids know a school is interested in them. Until they sign their NLI, pass the NCAA Clearinghouse, show up on campus, sign their FA papers and enroll in classes ... it’s ALL talk.

Most of the fans losing their shit right now couldn’t win State even if there WAS a separate division for publics. College offers don’t mean they’ll win State. Isn’t that what you all were saying the last 3 years?

Do your kids want to play in college? Have you kids run track I’m The Spring. Don’t miss off-season workouts. Sign your kids up for camps and combines at colleges, so recruiters know who they are and talk to your HS coach about the prospects of your kid playing in college. If he’s NOT starting on his HS team or opponents’ coaches don’t mention him when colleges ask “Hey, who’s a kid you think we should look at?” ... then he needs to improve.

 

[DirtyDan17]

How about you all put on your Big Girl Panties and volunteer so you can make your favorite, local public school team better?

I don’t recall Lamar or Webb bitching and suggesting (let’s keep it 100% here) INSANELY DESPERATE rule changes to MSHSAA the years they won State.

Yeah they also may have had one or two D1 kids between those 2 schools in any given year. Bad example.

College offers aren’t guaranteed. It’s a way to let kids know a school is interested in them. Until they sign their NLI, pass the NCAA Clearinghouse, show up on campus, sign their FA papers and enroll in classes ... it’s ALL talk.

Well that seems like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. If scholarships aren't that important, aren't guaranteed, and are "ALL talk" (your words not mine), why does Lutheran North make such a show about being #scholarshiphigh and stating in all their promotional stuff (especially for football) #youcangoanywherefromhere? Why go through the effort of trying to promote athletic scholarships (in order to attract D1 type kids) if that D1 offer "doesnt matter?

You pound your chest on these kids getting scholarships and now you want to walk it back, so which is it?

 

[FBisLife12]

Yeah they also may have had one or two D1 kids between those 2 schools in any given year. Bad example.



Well that seems like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. If scholarships aren't that important, aren't guaranteed, and are "ALL talk" (your words not mine), why does Lutheran North make such a show about being #scholarshiphigh and stating in all their promotional stuff (especially for football) #youcangoanywherefromhere? Why go through the effort of trying to promote athletic scholarships (in order to attract D1 type kids) if that D1 offer "doesnt matter?

You pound your chest on these kids getting scholarships and now you want to walk it back, so which is it?

Oh, scholarships matter ... when that’s the ultimate goal. Winning State is cool, but life doesn’t end after your senior year in high school. The issue of college scholarships as a measure of unfairness is an excuse people without State Championships OR college scholarships use.

The two aren’t mutually exclusive. It’s a narrative that people with one, that envy having the other, like to propitiate. It comes up after their team has lost and they’re looking externally for reasons why. Plenty of kids are on great high school teams. Plenty of kids are great high school players. It’s a huge blow to your ego when the party stops because you’re 18, out of high school eligibility and no college coaches know your name because your HS coach wasn’t interested in helping you play in college. I get it. Don’t blame the messenger. Jealousy is a disease.

 

[DirtyDan17]

Oh, scholarships matter ... when that’s the ultimate goal. Winning State is cool, but life doesn’t end after your senior year in high school. The issue of college scholarships as a measure of unfairness is an excuse people without State Championships OR college scholarships use.

The two aren’t mutually exclusive. It’s a narrative that people with one, that envy having the other, like to propitiate. It comes up after their team has lost and they’re looking externally for reasons why. Jealousy is a disease.

It's not a jealousy issue.

Why do certain kids get Division 1 offers and others (regardless of work put in) never will?

I'll go ahead and answer to avoid you beating around the bush. Size, speed, strength, and athleticism, things that can't be taught. Yeah other kids can improve themselves, but if you're a 5'9" 195 pound offensive guard at a Class 2 school, there is NOTHING you can do to make Mizzou take a look at you.

Surely you're not implying that ANYONE can get a D1 offer if they just try hard enough are you?

If the scholarship offers aren't that important or don't improve the odds of winning, why does Lutheran North make that such an emphasis on them?

Why are these football academies so scared of competing against teams that may actually challenge them and give them the spotlight against top competition?

Again, what's more impressive, beating Grandview in your district or beating CBC? I mean if you're content being a big fish in a small pond...

 

[FBisLife12]

It's not a jealousy issue.

Why do certain kids get Division 1 offers and others (regardless of work put in) never will?

I'll go ahead and answer to avoid you beating around the bush. Size, speed, strength, and athleticism, things that can't be taught. Yeah other kids can improve themselves, but if you're a 5'9" 195 pound offensive guard at a Class 2 school, there is NOTHING you can do to make Mizzou take a look at you.

Surely you're not implying that ANYONE can get a D1 offer if they just try hard enough are you?

If the scholarship offers aren't that important or don't improve the odds of winning, why does Lutheran North make that such an emphasis on them?

Why are these football academies so scared of competing against teams that may actually challenge them and give them the spotlight against top competition?

Again, what's more impressive, beating Grandview in your district or beating CBC? I mean if you're content being a big fish in a small pond...

I answered your question, but I’ll answer it again. Not every parent or athlete views or aspires for high school to be the pinnacle of their athletic accomplishments. I don’t know you, and I don’t know what your experiences are with collegiate athletic scholarships ... but colleges don’t “just find kids, if the kids are good enough”. Colleges recruit kids that they know exist. That means, if a kid is big, strong, fast, and talented enough ... and colleges see them at camps and combines competing against kids from bigger schools or “football” states ... they’ll consider them prospects.

Lutheran North, Ritter and Trinity recognize that playing collegiate football is a goal, because an athletic scholarship can help subsidize the expense of a college degree. D1 offers are great, but FCS, D2 and NAIA schools offer scholarships, too. To get ANY scholarship, colleges have to know who your kids are. Marketing the athletic program (because it ISN’T just football players that are getting scholarships from LN) to college recruiters accomplishes that goal.

MSHSAA makes the rules, not private schools. Each school has a vote and public schools FAR outnumber private schools. You need to take the time to go offline and talk to your head coach and AD. Ask THEM why public schools don’t vote to change the rules.

Lutheran Norrh and Trinity traveled out of state to play schools larger than CBC this year. Nazareth was a 7A semifinalist last year. Homewood-Flossmore is 8A. Trinity played East St. Louis and Colquitt on the road, too. They aren’t ducking larger Missouri schools. They sought the best competition possible because, in Missouri, the only games that count are the ones you play when Districts starts.

 

[TrooperBaby]

I answered your question, but I’ll answer it again. Not every parent or athlete views or aspires for high school to be the pinnacle of their athletic accomplishments. I don’t know you, and I don’t know what your experiences are with collegiate athletic scholarships ... but colleges don’t “just find kids, if the kids are good enough”. Colleges recruit kids that they know exist. That means, if a kid is big, strong, fast, and talented enough ... and colleges see them at camps and combines competing against kids from bigger schools or “football” states ... they’ll consider them prospects.

Lutheran North, Ritter and Trinity recognize that playing collegiate football is a goal, because an athletic scholarship can help subsidize the expense of a college degree. D1 offers are great, but FCS, D2 and NAIA schools offer scholarships, too. To get ANY scholarship, colleges have to know who your kids are. Marketing the athletic program (because it ISN’T just football players that are getting scholarships from LN) to college recruiters accomplishes that goal.

MSHSAA makes the rules, not private schools. Each school has a vote and public schools FAR outnumber private schools. You need to take the time to go offline and talk to your head coach and AD. Ask THEM why public schools don’t vote to change the rules.

Lutheran Norrh and Trinity traveled out of state to play schools larger than CBC this year. Nazareth was a 7A semifinalist last year. Homewood-Flossmore is 8A. Trinity played East St. Louis and Colquitt on the road, too. They aren’t ducking larger Missouri schools. They sought the best competition possible because, in Missouri, the only games that count are the ones you play when Districts starts.

Lutheran north needs to worry about making it to the state title in class 2, which they haven’t done in a while. Instead they scheduled their first three games out of state against three different powerhouses… and none of those games went to well for them. They’re biting off more then they can chew.

 

[FBisLife12]

Lutheran north needs to worry about making it to the state title in class 2, which they haven’t done in a while. Instead they scheduled their first three games out of state against three different powerhouses… and none of those games went to well for them. They’re biting off more then they can chew.

Lutheran North scheduled the toughest competition possible. They didn’t win the 1st 3 games, but they ALL went well for them because the ONLY team they lost to (for the2nd straight year) was the eventual State Champion. Every game before the first game in District play is a “preseason” game in Missouri. The goal is to be as prepared as possible. Winning State is not the ultimate goal. Developing student athletes, getting them exposure to the best competition possible, and making them known to college coaches at all levels IS the #1 goal.

 

[TrooperBaby]

Lutheran North scheduled the toughest competition possible. They didn’t win the 1st 3 games, but they ALL went well for them because the ONLY team they lost to (for the2nd straight year) was the eventual State Champion. Every game before the first game in District play is a “preseason” game in Missouri. The goal is to be as prepared as possible. Winning State is not the ultimate goal. Developing student athletes, getting them exposure to the best competition possible, and making them known to college coaches at all levels IS the #1 goal.

Especially at Lutheran north.
#scholarshiphigh
#youcangoanywherefromhere

 

[FBisLife12]

Especially at Lutheran north.
#scholarshiphigh
#youcangoanywherefromhere

Correct. That’s why so many of their players have scholarships. It’s also why parents are sending their kids to Lutheran North.

#KeepWorking
#LaFamilia

 

[DirtyDan17]

I answered your question, but I’ll answer it again. Not every parent or athlete views or aspires for high school to be the pinnacle of their athletic accomplishments. I don’t know you, and I don’t know what your experiences are with collegiate athletic scholarships ... but colleges don’t “just find kids, if the kids are good enough”. Colleges recruit kids that they know exist. That means, if a kid is big, strong, fast, and talented enough ... and colleges see them at camps and combines competing against kids from bigger schools or “football” states ... they’ll consider them prospects.

Lutheran North, Ritter and Trinity recognize that playing collegiate football is a goal, because an athletic scholarship can help subsidize the expense of a college degree. D1 offers are great, but FCS, D2 and NAIA schools offer scholarships, too. To get ANY scholarship, colleges have to know who your kids are. Marketing the athletic program (because it ISN’T just football players that are getting scholarships from LN) to college recruiters accomplishes that goal.

MSHSAA makes the rules, not private schools. Each school has a vote and public schools FAR outnumber private schools. You need to take the time to go offline and talk to your head coach and AD. Ask THEM why public schools don’t vote to change the rules.

Lutheran Norrh and Trinity traveled out of state to play schools larger than CBC this year. Nazareth was a 7A semifinalist last year. Homewood-Flossmore is 8A. Trinity played East St. Louis and Colquitt on the road, too. They aren’t ducking larger Missouri schools. They sought the best competition possible because, in Missouri, the only games that count are the ones you play when Districts starts.

If private schools got voted into a separate playoff they would recruit even harder than they do now. Wouldn't even attempt to hide their efforts, not that some really hide it now.

Again, great for these kids that they're getting an opportunity to improve their present and future. If I was faced with, sending my kid to a failing inner city school or to Trinity, Lutheran North, or Cardinal Ritter of course I'd send them to the private school.

However, let's not pretend what they're doing is in any way equitable to what is happening at successful public schools. Being able to create an all-star team with select talent from all over the region isn't the same as building a program with the kids who live in the district. Not even close. Lutheran North should feel embarrassed that they DONT win state in Class 2 every year given the talent they bring in every year. Biggest underachievers in the state.

 

[FBisLife12]

If private schools got voted into a separate playoff they would recruit even harder than they do now. Wouldn't even attempt to hide their efforts, not that some really hide it now.

Again, great for these kids that they're getting an opportunity to improve their present and future. If I was faced with, sending my kid to a failing inner city school or to Trinity, Lutheran North, or Cardinal Ritter of course I'd send them to the private school.

However, let's not pretend what they're doing is in any way equitable to what is happening at successful public schools. Being able to create an all-star team with select talent from all over the region isn't the same as building a program with the kids who live in the district. Not even close. Lutheran North should feel embarrassed that they DONT win state in Class 2 every year given the talent they bring in every year. Biggest underachievers in the state.

Private schools are following the rules. You can dislike the rules (and you do) but that doesn’t make it “cheating” no matter how many times you say it. You can pretend there’s a conspiracy or that kids that transfer are being “bought” or that families haven’t gotten banned by MSHSAA because “they’re afraid of being called racist” ... as some on this forum have suggested. Whatever helps you feel better about a situation you have no control over, is fine by me.

They’re called “Scholarship High” because their #1 stated goal is to prepare their players to play at the college level. Winning State is secondary to that but, yep, they haven’t won it since the early 2000s. If your favorite team is winning championships but not developing players that can compete at the next level, I’d consider THAT underachieving too. I guess it’s a matter of perspective.

 

[DirtyDan17]

Private schools are following the rules. You can dislike the rules (and you do) but that doesn’t make it “cheating” no matter how many times you say it. You can pretend there’s a conspiracy or that kids that transfer are being “bought” or that families haven’t gotten banned by MSHSAA because “they’re afraid of being called racist” ... as some on this forum have suggested. Whatever helps you feel better about a situation you have no control over, is fine by me.

They’re called “Scholarship High” because their #1 stated goal is to prepare their players to play at the college level. Winning State is secondary to that but, yep, they haven’t won it since the early 2000s. If your favorite team is winning championships but not developing players that can compete at the next level, I’d consider THAT underachieving too. I guess it’s a matter of perspective.

A public school can develop kids all they want, but a normal Class 2 or 3 school may not have a kid with the physical skills to play at a D1 level no matter how much the coaches develop them.

You know.... unless they're Lutheran North, Trinity, or Cardinal Ritter and can hand pick kids who are 6'5" 320 or who run a 4.3 40 from anywhere in the St. Louis metro area.

I'd be interested to see if the coaches at the 3 schools I mentioned could come to a rural Class 2 school and continue "developing" 5+ D1 recruits a year.

How much of it is the "development" they get at their high school and how much of it is the fact that the majority of the kids hand selected to go to these small private schools won the genetic lottery and literally any coach could trot them out and win 10 or more games a year and they'd get D1 looks regardless of who is coaching them?

 

[FBisLife12]

A public school can develop kids all they want, but a normal Class 2 or 3 school may not have a kid with the physical skills to play at a D1 level no matter how much the coaches develop them.

You know.... unless they're Lutheran North, Trinity, or Cardinal Ritter and can hand pick kids who are 6'5" 320 or who run a 4.3 40 from anywhere in the St. Louis metro area.

I'd be interested to see if the coaches at the 3 schools I mentioned could come to a rural Class 2 school and continue "developing" 5+ D1 recruits a year.

How much of it is the "development" they get at their high school and how much of it is the fact that the majority of the kids hand selected to go to these small private schools won the genetic lottery and literally any coach could trot them out and win 10 or more games a year and they'd get D1 looks regardless of who is coaching them?

There are more opportunities to play collegiate sports than just D-1 schools. If that’s your perception (or that of your coaches and parents) then that’s part of the problem you’re facing. If you’re a high school coach and your players want to compete in college, it isn’t your job to slot a kid as D-1 or D-3. It’s your job to make the player’s abilities known to as many colleges as possible, then let the kid and their family choose where they want to go.

EVERY private school decides who they admit. Incarnate Word Academy does it in girl’s basketball, Lutheran South does it for girl’s volleyball and boy’s baseball. MICDS and JBS did it for years when they got kids from Matthews-Dickey and Herbert Hoover B&G’s Club. CBC, DeSmet, Vianney and Chaminade do it now ... along with Ritter, Trinity and Lutheran North.

Kids are born the way they’re born, so I guess we’ll never know about that last one. Some kids are breastfed, some aren’t. If your parents are short, who’s to blame for you not being 6’9”? It’s not a coach’s fault if a kid doesn’t play at Ohio State. You can sit and wait for your kid to be “found” by a college, but it won’t end well. Lots of HS coaches don’t put the time into developing relationships with college coaches because it takes time and effort ... and most HS coaches don’t get hired to do the extra stuff like that. Bailey is at Lamar because winnning State is what matters most to the parents, fans and administration. If the bar was set at helping his players that AREN’T related to him exposure to collegiate opportunities ... he’d be considered an underachiever.

 

[DirtyDan17]

There are more opportunities to play collegiate sports than just D-1 schools. If that’s your perception (or that of your coaches and parents) then that’s part of the problem you’re facing. If you’re a high school coach and your players want to compete in college, it isn’t your job to slot a kid as D-1 or D-3. It’s your job to make the player’s abilities known to as many colleges as possible, then let the kid and their family choose where they want to go.

EVERY private school decides who they admit. Incarnate Word Academy does it in girl’s basketball, Lutheran South does it for girl’s volleyball and boy’s baseball. MICDS and JBS did it for years when they got kids from Matthews-Dickey and Herbert Hoover B&G’s Club. CBC, DeSmet, Vianney and Chaminade do it now ... along with Ritter, Trinity and Lutheran North.

Kids are born the way they’re born, so I guess we’ll never know about that last one. Some kids are breastfed, some aren’t. If your parents are short, who’s to blame for you not being 6’9”? It’s not a coach’s fault if a kid doesn’t play at Ohio State. You can sit and wait for your kid to be “found” by a college, but it won’t end well. Lots of HS coaches don’t put the time into developing relationships with college coaches because it takes time and effort ... and most HS coaches don’t get hired to do the extra stuff like that. Bailey is at Lamar because winnning State is what matters most to the parents, fans and administration. If the bar was set at helping his players that AREN’T related to him exposure to collegiate opportunities ... he’d be considered an underachiever.

Way to sidestep that last part. Do you think any of the coaches at any of the schools I've mentioned could go to Grandview, Eldon, Salem, Dexter, Sullivan, or Potosi and keep cranking out D1 kids?

My emphasis on Division 1 is because of how rare that designation actually gets assigned and yet Lutheran North has 4 or 5 guys (per class) who either have offers or will play D1 football every year.

My question is, if it's just a matter of those coaches "working harder" to expose their kids, then surely those coaches could go to Grandview, Dexter, Salem, Carnahan, you know similar sized schools and keep pumping out D1 kids right? If all it takes is work and relationships...

 

[FBisLife12]

Way to sidestep that last part. Do you think any of the coaches at any of the schools I've mentioned could go to Grandview, Eldon, Salem, Dexter, Sullivan, or Potosi and keep cranking out D1 kids?

My emphasis on Division 1 is because of how rare that designation actually gets assigned and yet Lutheran North has 4 or 5 guys (per class) who either have offers or will play D1 football every year.

My question is, if it's just a matter of those coaches "working harder" to expose their kids, then surely those coaches could go to Grandview, Dexter, Salem, Carnahan, you know similar sized schools and keep pumping out D1 kids right? If all it takes is work and relationships...

I guess we’ll never know. I don’t know any of the kids that played on those teams. If any of them have/had the ability to play at a D-1 school and they didn’t because their coaches and family didn’t help them get in front of college recruiters, that’d be a real shame.

Carnahan DOES have kids with scholarship offers. I’ll take your word for the other schools you listed. I get that you’re emotional about the offers you see Trinity, Ritter and Lutheran North players getting. If your kids aren’t D-1 players they likely won’t get D-1 offers. Is that really an excuse you want to give them for not having the opportunity to play football at a lower division in college though? You can be mad that private schools have more talented players. You can even be mad that those players have scholarships. You can’t blame another school for your kid’s abilities or for your coaches not getting them in front of colleges that want to offer them.

Maybe I’m wrong? Maybe your coaches DO get your kids in front of colleges but they just aren’t talented enough to play college football? That also isn’t Lutheran North’s fault.

 

[DirtyDan17]

I guess we’ll never know. I don’t know any of the kids that played on those teams. If any of them have/had the ability to play at a D-1 school and they didn’t because their coaches and family didn’t help them get in front of college recruiters, that’d be a real shame.

Carnahan DOES have kids with scholarship offers. I’ll take your word for the other schools you listed. I get that you’re emotional about the offers you see Trinity, Ritter and Lutheran North players getting. If your kids aren’t D-1 players they likely won’t get D-1 offers. Is that really an excuse you want to give them for not having the opportunity to play football at a lower division in college though? You can be mad that private schools have more talented players. You can even be mad that those players have scholarships. You can’t blame another school for your kid’s abilities or for your coaches not getting them in front of colleges that want to offer them.

Maybe I’m wrong? Maybe your coaches DO get your kids in front of colleges but they just aren’t talented enough to play college football? That also isn’t Lutheran North’s fault.

Except I'm not mad about that, and you can read through the threads with me applauding those schools for what they do for their kids. Your entire "you're mad, you're jealous" is just a strawman argument meant to divert attention from the actual issue.

I dont care who Trinity, Lutheran North, or Cardinal Ritter recruit, they just shouldnt be playing in Class 2 or 3 playoffs.

You want to applaud the talent on your team, have at it, I'll clap with you and retweet their successes. But they should be playing CBC, Eureka, and Kirkwood in the playoffs instead of Grandview, Herculaneum, and Carnahan.

 

[FBisLife12]

Except I'm not mad about that, and you can read through the threads with me applauding those schools for what they do for their kids. Your entire "you're mad, you're jealous" is just a strawman argument meant to divert attention from the actual issue.

I dont care who Trinity, Lutheran North, or Cardinal Ritter recruit, they just shouldnt be playing in Class 2 or 3 playoffs.

You want to applaud the talent on your team, have at it, I'll clap with you and retweet their successes. But they should be playing CBC, Eureka, and Kirkwood in the playoffs instead of Grandview, Herculaneum, and Carnahan.

Who is responsible for determining what Classification a team plays in? Do private schools have the ability to choose to compete in the postseason at a higher class size? I’m pretty sure MSHSAA decides that. So, if that’s where your problem lies, I’m not sure why you keep ranting about Lutheran North, Ritter and Trinity.

I’m cool with you complaining and whatever but, if your beef is with MSHSAA and you applaud and tweet about Lutheran North’s successes ... then it seems the focus of your posts would be different.

I mean, other than your OP suggesting MSHSAA use the verbal offers kids have to place them into class levels. That one is just crazy.

 

[DirtyDan17]

Who is responsible for determining what Classification a team plays in? Do private schools have the ability to choose to compete in the postseason at a higher class size? I’m pretty sure MSHSAA decides that. So, if that’s where your problem lies, I’m not sure why you keep ranting about Lutheran North, Ritter and Trinity.

I’m cool with you complaining and whatever but, if your beef is with MSHSAA and you applaud and tweet about Lutheran North’s successes ... then it seems the focus of your posts would be different.

I mean, other than your OP suggesting MSHSAA use the verbal offers kids have to place them into class levels. That one is just crazy.

Think you had some basic reading comprehension issues, I didnt explain well enough, or you just enjoy trolling with circlical arguments and logical fallacies.

In whichever case it falls under, my point remains the same.

 

[FBisLife12]

I just reread your OP. The NCAA doesn’t allow “official” scholarship offers until the first day of a high school student’s Senior year ... which is in August.

Also, even “official” scho

Think you had some basic reading comprehension issues, I didnt explain well enough, or you just enjoy trolling with circlical arguments and logical fallacies.

In whichever case it falls under, my point remains the same.

Which is, what? If your kids aren’t talented enough to play college football, it doesn’t matter WHO their high school coach is. That’s pretty obvious. Nope, Reed can’t make your kids into collegiate football recruits if they’re too short, slow, weak etc.

If you’re confused by that or you’re frustrated because of something else, then that’s a personal problem. Other than calling it crazy for MSHSAA to assign classifications by the number of verbal offers kids have, I’ve agreed with you. Maybe you’re pissed because I went into detail about the subject and you took it personally?

 

[DirtyDan17]

I just reread your OP. The NCAA doesn’t allow “official” scholarship offers until the first day of a high school student’s Senior year ... which is in August.

Also, even “official” scho


Which is, what? If your kids aren’t talented enough to play college football, it doesn’t matter WHO their high school coach is. That’s pretty obvious. Nope, Reed can’t make your kids into collegiate football recruits if they’re too short, slow, weak etc.

If you’re confused by that or you’re frustrated because of something else, then that’s a personal problem. Other than calling it crazy for MSHSAA to assign classifications by the number of verbal offers kids have, I’ve agreed with you. Maybe you’re pissed because I went into detail about the subject and you took it personally?

I'm not "mad" about anything. I dont want private and public to split, I like what private schools do for their kids.

I think there's got to be a better way to ensure the games aren't being won simply because a school can hand select an All-star team.

 

[mowesten]

I’ll be honest, I’m not really a fan of kids teaming up to play Class 2 football — to me it seems pointless.

On the other hand this is an absurd proposal on multiple levels. There’s no way to verify an offer beyond trusting the person that is reporting it to be honest and forthright. And there’s no way to compel an athlete to publicize an offer. The websites you reference are simply reporting what they see on social media or are being told by the athlete or the athletes coach. They are not compiling that information in any official capacity, not to mention, not all of the kids that hold an offer are listed on those sites. I could go through 247 and name multiple kids that are missing.

What you would have is teams just waiting until after your July 1 deadline to report offers, or reporting some of them but not all. Or, they would just change the terminology from “offer” to something more vague. Which is easily done.

The NCAA prohibits its members from commenting publicly about any prospective recruit until after they return their NLA. And for that reason, very few of its members will even comment privately. They are not going to be involved in this process in any shape, form or fashion, and that’s a guarantee from someone who works with NCAA coaches.

What that means for your theory is, if a dozen kids from a school that reported no offers suddenly sign a NLA, there wouldn’t be a way for anyone to know whether or not they held those offers prior to your July 1 deadline. They don’t have to tell you, and a college program isn’t going to comment.

We have an administrative body in MSHSAA that can't figure out that the new address an athlete is reporting is a "rental" owned by one of their new teammates who they played AAU ball with, and the parents are still living in their old house and working the same job 20 miles down the road.

I shudder to think what kind of Cluster-F this idea would turn into.

 

[FBisLife12]

I'm not "mad" about anything. I dont want private and public to split, I like what private schools do for their kids.

I think there's got to be a better way to ensure the games aren't being won simply because a school can hand select an All-star team.

Of course there is. I don’t disagree with you on that, either. It’s a damned shame MSHSAA doesn’t check with anonymous fans on this forum to get input on what changes to implement. I know, I know ... somebody suggested something 5 years ago and it didn’t get passed, so why try again. Right? Oh, well.

 

[crackinupredneck]

I may be reading this wrong but you think some of these coaches goals are to not win state, but to get them ready to play football in college? I cant imagine any coach in his hiring interview being asked if his ultimate goal is to bring that school a title and him saying "No, not really, but I want them to play good at Mizzou (insert favorite team here)". "I dont want him to win now, I want him to win later. Sure helping them prepare for NCAA football is hallmark of any coach. But they are in the business is winning. This compares to not driving your car to keep it nice for the guy you want to sell it to. There is also another comparison to this but its more mature and in todays society it may offend someone if I joke about it.

In my opinion, which probably isn't worth much, I would think that ANY coach has titles as his first goal, and second, prepare his athletes to succeed in college for a better life, because football doesnt last forever.

 

[Duck_walk]

Of course there is. I don’t disagree with you on that, either. It’s a damned shame MSHSAA doesn’t check with anonymous fans on this forum to get input on what changes to implement. I know, I know ... somebody suggested something 5 years ago and it didn’t get passed, so why try again. Right? Oh, well.

Why dont you push it tough guy? Call them up Monday morning and demand a meeting.
You are so knowledgeable and influential you can get it done for everyone.

 

[BPcompete]

Way to sidestep that last part. Do you think any of the coaches at any of the schools I've mentioned could go to Grandview, Eldon, Salem, Dexter, Sullivan, or Potosi and keep cranking out D1 kids?

My emphasis on Division 1 is because of how rare that designation actually gets assigned and yet Lutheran North has 4 or 5 guys (per class) who either have offers or will play D1 football every year.

My question is, if it's just a matter of those coaches "working harder" to expose their kids, then surely those coaches could go to Grandview, Dexter, Salem, Carnahan, you know similar sized schools and keep pumping out D1 kids right? If all it takes is work and relationships...

You arent making any sense. You’re argument is “can the coaches turn these traditionally talentless towns to suddenly having talent.” Well the answer is obviously no. Majority of the states Division 1 talent comes from KC, JeffCity/Como, and St Louis.

Also you’re pretending these guys are walking into HS as freshmen with offers....they’re not. These coaches ARE helping them reach their full potential, some do and some dont....either way you sound insanely jealous.

If you’re a black kid (majority of the states D1 prospects are usually black) you’re gonna be more drawn to black schools like Ritter, LN, and Trinity. Some choose the MCC schools like CBC and Chaminade. Its just a matter of preference...but like I said, you sound insanely jealous, you’re literally hating on 16/17 year old kids get a life.

 

[BPcompete]

Except I'm not mad about that, and you can read through the threads with me applauding those schools for what they do for their kids. Your entire "you're mad, you're jealous" is just a strawman argument meant to divert attention from the actual issue.

I dont care who Trinity, Lutheran North, or Cardinal Ritter recruit, they just shouldnt be playing in Class 2 or 3 playoffs.

You want to applaud the talent on your team, have at it, I'll clap with you and retweet their successes. But they should be playing CBC, Eureka, and Kirkwood in the playoffs instead of Grandview, Herculaneum, and Carnahan.

Lol “they should be playing CBC, Eureka, and Kirkwood”....I’ve been telling MoSports that Trinity was the 2nd best team in the state & they would be smacking the Class 6 schools LOL finally someone else agrees

 

[Duck_walk]

Lol “they should be playing CBC, Eureka, and Kirkwood”....I’ve been telling MoSports that Trinity was the 2nd best team in the state & they would be smacking the Class 6 schools LOL finally someone else agrees

Where are the Doc Guys with their dead horse meme? Jeez man, get a life.

 

[Saints-1-fan]

Players in rural areas know their future is not sports. Most rural boys have grown up working and knowing they may play ball ( football - baseball ) at a small college and then get on with their life working . Most of rural boys already have learned a work ethic and have their own pickups - tractors - livestock -- even some land! Some boys in the city see a sport as maybe their future..

 

[FBisLife12]

I may be reading this wrong but you think some of these coaches goals are to not win state, but to get them ready to play football in college? I cant imagine any coach in his hiring interview being asked if his ultimate goal is to bring that school a title and him saying "No, not really, but I want them to play good at Mizzou (insert favorite team here)". "I dont want him to win now, I want him to win later. Sure helping them prepare for NCAA football is hallmark of any coach. But they are in the business is winning. This compares to not driving your car to keep it nice for the guy you want to sell it to. There is also another comparison to this but its more mature and in todays society it may offend someone if I joke about it.

In my opinion, which probably isn't worth much, I would think that ANY coach has titles as his first goal, and second, prepare his athletes to succeed in college for a better life, because football doesnt last forever.

You don’t have to speculate. I’m not saying “what I think”. I’m telling you what I know. Trinity, Ritter and Lutheran North’s Coaches are all active on Twitter. If you ask them, they’ll tell you that winning State is one of their goals but preparing their kids to play at the next level, get exposure to college coaches and obtain scholarships are their primary goals

You’re free to believe what you want and to have your opinions. I’m not speculating or interpreting or assuming what their priorities are. I’m telling you what I know because I’ve spoken to the men.

 

[FBisLife12]

Why dont you push it tough guy? Call them up Monday morning and demand a meeting.
You are so knowledgeable and influential you can get it done for everyone.

I’m fine with the rules the way they are, Daffy Belichick. I don’t want you to stop crying and you don’t really want to stop doing. You’re the one bitching about how horrible to rules are and fantasizing about ridiculous changes on a message board. YOU’RE the one with 100 years of experience coaching in Missouri, right? Don’t you have the Hall of Fame connections at MSHSAA? Don’t the current coaches and ADs respect your guidance and input? Lol. Just keep beating yourself off on Rivals.