The Obvious Solution for Correcting Competitive Imbalance

[Gubbba Bump Shrimp]

Is to go back to 5 Classes, 4 even. It becomes a lot harder for the same team or 2 or 3 teams to win year after year when the pool of good teams in their Class increases.

Make 4 Classes of 75 and let Class 5 be the catch-all. You can't tell me Class 1 isn't improved from a parity standpoint by adding Lexington, Brentwood, and South Callaway?

A Class 2 format featuring Maryville, McCluer South-Berkley, Lamar, Seneca, Blair Oaks, Malden, Mountain View-Liberty, Caruthersville, Hermann, Lafayette County, Summit Christian, Lawson, Lutheran North, Trinity (for real), Macon, Ava, Mountain Grove, and Centralia? Yes please

I can see it already, "But, but...there would be teams having to play teams almost twice as big as they are in the playoffs, that's not fair or competitive." The thing is though...we have that now as it is.

Class 5

St. Louis University 2803
Rockhurst 2753
CBC 2565
Blue Springs - Blue Springs 2547
Jefferson City - Jefferson City 2500
Hazelwood West - Hazelwood 2268
Marquette - Chesterfield 2223
Joplin - Joplin 2216
Lindbergh - St. Louis 2060
Blue Springs South Blue Springs 2041
Lee's Summit West Lee's Summit 2037
DeSmet St. Louis 2020
Troy Buchanan Troy 1993
Hazelwood Central Florissant 1966
Ft. Zumwalt West O'Fallon 1964
Francis Howell St. Charles 1947
Francis Howell Central St. Charles 1906
Lee's Summit North Lee's Summit 1904
Northwest (Cedar Hill) Cedar Hill 1901
Raymore-Peculiar Peculiar 1900
Eureka Eureka 1885
Park Hill Kansas City 1877
Lafayette (Wildwood) Wildwood 1874
Rock Bridge Columbia 1866
Ritenour St. Louis 1832
Lee's Summit 1823

Class 4

Seckman Imperial 1814
Kickapoo Springfield 1800
Mehlville St. Louis 1794
Fox Arnold 1790
McCluer North Florissant 1790
Kirkwood Kirkwood 1779
Timberland Wentzville 1778
Francis Howell North St. Charles 1773
Liberty Liberty 1767
Liberty North Liberty 1764
Parkway South Ballwin 1740
Nixa Nixa 1733
Pattonville Maryland Heights 1727
Central (St. Joseph) St. Joseph 1703
Holt Wentzville 1662
Hickman Columbia 1660
Vianney St. Louis 1634
Ozark Ozark 1632
Waynesville Waynesville 1627
Central (Springfield) Springfield 1612
Park Hill South Riverside 1605
Truman Independence 1605
Raytown Raytown 1600
Oakville St. Louis 1550
Staley Kansas City 1525
Jackson Jackson 1523
Fort Osage Independence 1503
Chaminade Creve Coeur 1502
Poplar Bluff Poplar Bluff 1478
North Kansas City North Kansas City 1476
Lebanon Lebanon 1466
Smith-Cotton Sedalia 1466
Ruskin Kansas City 1454
Oak Park Kansas City 1439
Ft. Zumwalt North O'Fallon 1437
Branson Branson 1430
William Chrisman Independence 1425
Hazelwood East St. Louis 1391
Republic Republic 1389
Battle Columbia 1378
Ft. Zumwalt South St. Peters 1370
Glendale Springfield 1361
Belton Belton 1356
Carthage Carthage 1356
Washington Washington 1351
Webster Groves Webster Groves 1351
Parkview Springfield 1347
Willard Willard 1324
Neosho Neosho 1316
Winnetonka Kansas City 1314
Ladue Horton Watkins St. Louis 1301
Camdenton Camdenton 1297
Ft. Zumwalt East St. Peters 1276
Rolla Rolla 1273
Parkway West Ballwin 1270
Parkway Central Chesterfield 1263
Liberty (Wentzville) Lake St. Louis 1251
Parkway North Creve Coeur 1236
Grandview Grandview 1231
Grain Valley Grain Valley 1192
Kearney Kearney 1178
McCluer Florissant 1178
Webb City Webb City 1177
McDonald County Anderson 1174
Raytown South Raytown 1168
Gateway St. Louis 1148
Farmington Farmington 1143
Riverview Gardens St. Louis 1141
Hillsboro Hillsboro 1140
Platte County Platte City 1106
Central (Cape Girardeau) 1100
West Plains West Plains 1092
Hannibal Hannibal 1024
Hillcrest Springfield 1016
Westminster Christian Academy 1012

Class 3

Carl Junction Carl Junction 1006
St. Dominic O'Fallon 999
Van Horn (Independence) Independence 997
DeSoto DeSoto 961
Sikeston Sikeston 957
Warrenton Warrenton 956
Windsor (Imperial) Imperial 949
Marshfield Marshfield 940
Warrensburg Warrensburg 931
St. Mary's (St. Louis) St. Louis 924
Helias Catholic Jefferson City 916
Pacific Pacific 910
Union Union 908
North County Bonne Terre 897
Harrisonville Harrisonville 884
MICDS St. Louis 874
Clayton Clayton 870
Festus Festus 870
East (Kansas City) Kansas City 843
Smithville Smithville 841
University City University City 841
St. Charles St. Charles 821
Marshall Marshall 818
Bolivar Bolivar 804
Excelsior Springs ExcelsiorSprings 791
Lafayette (St. Joseph) St. Joseph 783
St. Francis Borgia Washington 783
Benton St. Joseph 781
Savannah Savannah 780
Nevada Nevada 777
Affton St. Louis 773
Priory St. Louis 759
Kirksville Kirksville 756
St. Clair St. Clair 750
Perryville Perryville 744
Moberly Moberly 735
Northeast (Kansas City) Kansas City 732
Potosi Potosi 727
Monett Monett 710
St. Charles West St. Charles 710
Jennings Jennings 708
Logan-Rogersville Rogersville 700
Center Kansas City 696
Lutheran South St. Louis 681
Mexico Mexico 675
Confluence Prep Academy Charter St. Louis 671
Normandy Collaborative St. Louis 671
Sullivan Sullivan 667
Miller Career Academy St. Louis 666
Fulton Fulton 655
Oak Grove Oak Grove 649
Aurora Aurora 639
Pleasant Hill Pleasant Hill 639
Ste. Genevieve St. Genevieve 638
Dexter Dexter 633
Reeds Spring Reeds Spring 621
Vashon 616
Odessa Odessa 615
Central Academy of Excellence Kansas City 607
Eldon Eldon 605
Lincoln College Prep Kansas City 604
Salem Salem 598
Soldan International Studies St. Louis 593
Owensville Owensville 591
Cassville Cassville 590
Clinton Clinton 590
Chillicothe Chillicothe 571
Pembroke Hill Kansas City 569
St. Pius X (Kansas City) Kansas City 555
John Burroughs Ladue 554
Osage Kaiser 551
Cameron Cameron 548
Springfield Catholic Springfield 534
Central (Park Hills) Park Hills 531
Kennett Kennett 526

Class 2

Roosevelt St. Louis 518
Fredericktown Fredericktown 516
McCluer South-Berkeley St. Louis 513
Boonville Boonville 512
Orchard Farm St. Charles 504
Southern Boone Ashland 501
Hollister Hollister 491
Hogan Prep Academy Charter Kansas City 480
Mt. Vernon Mt. Vernon 475
Winfield Winfield 475
Southeast Kansas City 474
East Newton Granby 471
Maryville Maryville 470
St. James St. James 468
Christian O'Fallon 465
Lift for Life Academy Charter St. Louis 462
Buffalo Buffalo 458
Central (New Madrid County) New Madrid 457
Richmond Richmond 457
Wright City Wright City 454
Lutheran St. Charles St. Peters 453
Seneca Seneca 442
Duchesne St. Charles 438
Blair Oaks Jefferson City 430
Macon Macon 427
Mountain Grove Mountain Grove 425
Ava Ava 421
Herculaneum Herculaneum 418
Cuba Cuba 417
California California 416
Centralia Centralia 403
Willow Springs Willow Springs 402
Whitfield St. Louis 400
Holden Holden 396
St. Pius X (Festus) Festus 396
Father Tolton Regional Catholic Columbia 392
Warsaw Warsaw 388
Clopton/Elsberry 388
Lutheran North St. Louis 387
Fair Grove Fair Grove 386
Fatima Westphalia 386
Lamar Lamar 384
Versailles Versailles 384
Carnahan St. Louis 383
Lawson Lawson 381
Houston Houston 380
Hallsville Hallsville 377
Montgomery County Montgomery City 377
North Callaway Kingdom City 377
Trinity Catholic St. Louis 374
Bowling Green Bowling Green 370
Strafford Strafford 360
Principia St. Louis 356
Sumner St. Louis 356
Trenton Trenton 354
Palmyra Palmyra 353
El Dorado Springs El Dorado Springs 351
Cardinal Ritter St. Louis 347
East Prairie East Prairie 342
Summit Christian Academy Lee's Summit 342
Stockton Stockton 339
Kelly Benton 332
Hermann Hermann 328
Liberty (Mountain View) Mountain View 327
Lafayette County Higginsville 322
Knob Noster Knob Noster 318
Caruthersville Caruthersville 316
Highland Ewing 307
Butler Butler 300
Brookfield Brookfield 298
Lathrop Lathrop 297
Malden Malden 296
Clark County Kahoka 294
Jefferson (Festus) Festus 292
Cole Camp Cole Camp 280

Class 1

Carrollton Carrollton 273
Charleston Charleston 273
Lexington Lexington 270
Cleveland NJROTC St. Louis 269
St. Paul Lutheran (Concordia) Concordia 265
University Academy Charter Kansas City 265
Bishop LeBlond St. Joseph 262
South Callaway Mokane 262
Diamond Diamond 261
Sherwood Creighton 260
Brentwood Brentwood 245
Monroe City Monroe City 244
Portageville Portageville 244
South Harrison Bethany 243
East Buchanan Gower 240
Penney Hamilton 239
Cabool Cabool 236
Ash Grove Ash Grove 234
Mark Twain Center 233
Elsberry Elsberry 232
Plattsburg Plattsburg 229
Sarcoxie Sarcoxie 227
Mid-Buchanan Faucett 226
Adrian Adrian 224
Tipton Tipton 219
South Shelby Shelbina 217
Marionville Marionville 216
Windsor Windsor 214
Putnam County Unionville 213
Hayti Hayti 211
Pleasant Hope Pleasant Hope 211
Skyline Urbana 209
Louisiana Louisiana 206
North Platte Dearborn 206
Milan Milan 205
Westran Huntsville 205
Marceline Marceline 199
Pierce City Pierce City 198
Crest Ridge Centerview 195
Thayer Thayer 195
Gallatin Gallatin 194
St. Vincent Perryville 194
Fayette Fayette 192
Lone Jack Lone Jack 191
Scotland County Memphis 190
Archie Archie 188
Chaffee Chaffee 188
Schuyler County Lancaster 188
Miller Miller 176
Maysville Maysville 174
West Platte Weston 170
Osceola Osceola 168
Salisbury Salisbury 168
Crystal City Crystal City 167
Harrisburg Harrisburg 167
Van-Far Vandalia 164
Knox County Edina 162
Valle Catholic Ste. Genevieve 162
Midway Cleveland 159
Clopton w/Elsberry Clarksville 156
Lincoln Lincoln 151
Liberal Liberal 148
Jasper Jasper 144
Lockwood Lockwood 144
Polo Polo 139
Paris Paris 136
Concordia Concordia 134
Wellington-Napoleon Wellington 134
Rich Hill Rich Hill 133
Appleton City Appleton City 131
Princeton Princeton 127
Santa Fe Alma 126
Slater Slater 119
Sweet Springs Sweet Springs 116
Orrick Orrick 109

 

[knockemofftheball]

Puts Harrisonville back to where they were in the mid 2000's. Of course CJ, Helias, Monett will be in the mix, but it's a lot different, than knowing you will most likely have to knock off Webb or Kearney or both each year to win it all.

 

[Team Tiger]

Regardless how you stir it you will still end up with the same names at the top. Webb, Kearney, Maryville, Lamar, Penney and Valle all still have multiple state championships and we get on here and start discussing the next obvious solution. CJ, Helias and Harrisonville I would think would be jumping up and down at this.

 

[rod-wildcatfan]

Regardless how you stir it you will still end up with the same names at the top. Webb, Kearney, Maryville, Lamar, Penney and Valle all still have multiple state championships and we get on here and start discussing the next obvious solution. CJ, Helias and Harrisonville I would think would be jumping up and down at this.

LOL

 

[greenergrass]

Team Tiger is Right. Lamar will win Class 2. Webb will get back on track and fight Kearney for Class 4

 

[Gubbba Bump Shrimp]

Webb will get back on track and fight Kearney for Class 4

Class 4, IMO would have the most parity outside of Class 2. Yeah Webb and Kearney would definitely be major players, but when you add Kirkwood, Kickapoo, Liberty North, Nixa, Vianney, Jackson, Staley, Chaminade, Poplar Bluff, Fort Osage, Battle, Zumwalt North, Carthage, Webster Groves, McCluer North, etc it becomes a lot tougher for anyone and everyone.

 

[Scout 4u]

Regardless how you stir it you will still end up with the same names at the top. Webb, Kearney, Maryville, Lamar, Penney and Valle all still have multiple state championships and we get on here and start discussing the next obvious solution. CJ, Helias and Harrisonville I would think would be jumping up and down at this.

Liberty North (C5) will move to (C6) soon
Staley (C5) will move to (C6) soon
Liberty KC (C5) previously (C6)
Belton KC (C5)

Three out of those four teams alone would have a huge advantage in playing a (C5) (C6) schedule day in and day out in the highly competitive KC Metro league.

Just because you can knock off a quality (C6) Rockhurst as a (C4) team in "one" game does not mean you have the "depth" on the bench to knock off (C6) Blue Springs, Blue Springs South, LSW, Park Hill, RP and Lee Summit back to back to back as well.

Look at Blue Springs after just loosing their starting QB and third string RB. They still had arguably one of the best HS running backs in the country and still lost...BIG

Do not disagree that a (C5) Staley with a "vast" pool of quality players to pick from each year would do just fine as they have proven over the last few years.

 

[wcfanfourever]

Liberty North (C5) will move to (C6) soon
Staley (C5) will move to (C6) soon
Liberty KC (C5) previously (C6)
Belton KC (C5)

Three out of those four teams alone would have a huge advantage in playing a (C5) (C6) schedule day in and day out in the highly competitive KC Metro league.

Just because you can knock off a quality (C6) Rockhurst as a (C4) team in "one" game does not mean you have the "depth" on the bench to knock off (C6) Blue Springs, Blue Springs South, LSW, Park Hill, RP and Lee Summit back to back to back as well.

Look at Blue Springs after just loosing their starting QB and third string RB. They still had arguably one of the best HS running backs in the country and still lost...BIG

Do not disagree that a (C5) Staley with a "vast" pool of quality players to pick from each year would do just fine as they have proven over the last few years.

KC Metro League is highly competitive because they are all highly average.

 

[Scout 4u]

KC Metro League is highly competitive because they are all highly average.

I was speaking to the fact that numbers do not tell the whole story.

Kearney for example gets what they get as far as talent. Being nearly 20 miles from KC, 15 from Staley, 10 from Liberty/Liberty North, parents have more "choices" to pick from on where they want to send their child to school.

As you have seen on television, Staley is more like a college campus than a High School venue.

Not saying that smaller schools do not have good facilities to play in or programs outside of athletics to do...

Just making the point that parents see a "New" ultra nice school like the ones mentioned and think to themselves, can we afford to send our kid here?

I do not blame them...

----------------------------------------------------------

PS
I was at the Webb/Harrisonville game.
Your Dome is not to bad either ...

 

[Gubbba Bump Shrimp]

So back to the point of the thread...

Does this increase the level of competition?

 

[Scout 4u]

So back to the point of the thread...

Does this increase the level of competition?

If you are of the belief that a team that has (6) quarterbacks already... has no "injury" advantage playing a team that has (2)...

Then I guess that yes the competition level would go up as long as those 2 quarterbacks on the smaller roster do not go out sometime throughout the season.

This was my point above.

Yes a smaller school can defeat a much larger school in one game.

Can their roster hold up however in the case of injury throughout a (C6) season?

I say no.

 

[Gubbba Bump Shrimp]

If you are of the belief that a team that has (6) quarterbacks already... has no "injury" advantage playing a team that has (2)...

Then I guess that yes the competition level would go up as long as those 2 quarterbacks on the smaller roster do not go out sometime throughout the season.

This was my point above.

Yes a smaller school can defeat a much larger school in one game.

Can their roster hold up however in the case of injury throughout a (C6) season?

I say no.

Fortunately they're not playing a Class 6 season...unless those teams are in their conference or they voluntarily schedule them.

Playoffs are random, you're not guaranteed to run into the biggest school.

 

[Scout 4u]

If that were the case then I would agree that it may be a workable system.

I concede, you win.

After...
White Black
02) P-KN4 Q-QR5 ck (mate)

 

[wcfanfourever]

I was speaking to the fact that numbers do not tell the whole story.

Kearney for example gets what they get as far as talent. Being nearly 20 miles from KC, 15 from Staley, 10 from Liberty/Liberty North, parents have more "choices" to pick from on where they want to send their child to school.

As you have seen on television, Staley is more like a college campus than a High School venue.

Not saying that smaller schools do not have good facilities to play in or programs outside of athletics to do...

Just making the point that parents see a "New" ultra nice school like the ones mentioned and think to themselves, can we afford to send our kid here?

I do not blame them...

----------------------------------------------------------

PS
I was at the Webb/Harrisonville game.
Your Dome is not to bad either ...

Yea thanks to FEMA for building us a new Tornado Shelter that doubles as a very nice athletic facility

 

[Scout 4u]

Yea thanks to FEMA for building us a new Tornado Shelter that doubles as a very nice athletic facility

Did not know that.
Kearney is in the process of looking into a new gym as well. Though I do not want a tornado to get it, your facility is spectacular !


Did I mention that I will say anything for a ... LIKE

 

[l_Pete_l]

So back to the point of the thread...

Does this increase the level of competition?

In any breakdown someone has it unfair. The 6 class system is an attempt to keep schools with closer enrollments playing each other. IMO 5 classes make the enrollment gap way too much. I don't see a dominance based off of enrollment. I do see a dominance based off of school vision. There will always be periodically dominance when a school hires a coach that is very good or has a run of exceptional athletes and someone will try to figure a system to even it out. Happens in every level including high school, college and pro. Well, actually less in pro. Good discussion though.

 

[HomeyR]

In any breakdown someone has it unfair. The 6 class system is an attempt to keep schools with closer enrollments playing each other. IMO 5 classes make the enrollment gap way too much. I don't see a dominance based off of enrollment. I do see a dominance based off of school vision. There will always be periodically dominance when a school hires a coach that is very good or has a run of exceptional athletes and someone will try to figure a system to even it out. Happens in every level including high school, college and pro. Well, actually less in pro. Good discussion though.

Where Staley is concerned, I would call it "school district vision." I'm sure that the NKC district is not the only one structured in this way. It is common in many suburban school districts.

 

[Gubbba Bump Shrimp]

In any breakdown someone has it unfair. The 6 class system is an attempt to keep schools with closer enrollments playing each other.

Certainly, I would claim that the 6 Class system is failing in that regard.

When the largest school in Class 4 Rolla (1314 enrollment) who finished with a 1-8 regular season record, gets placed in a district where it gets to play St. Clair (750), Union (908), and then finally loses their district championship to a similarly sized school, Parkway West (1270) I personally think there is something inequitable going on.

Go back to 5 Classes and yeah there's just as big or bigger discrepancies, but within the largest Classes 4 and 5 they are all over 1000 students in enrollment and should be able to compete.

IMO, and feel free to disagree, a school with an enrollment of over 1000 (~500 boys) is much more capable of competing against a school with an enrollment of 1800(~900), than a school of 700 (~350 boys) is against a school with 1300 (~650).

 

[StefanDjordjevich]

It is tough playing bigger school when you are low on the enrollment. When i was in HS in western PA we had to play a really big nice school, with all new equipment and facilities. Walnut Height beat us every year. One year i thought we would win after a goal line stand with 2 seconds to go in the game. Then our coach made a bad call and a fumbled and freakin Walnut Heights recovered in the endzone for the win. It was a tough pill to swallow. Nobody dealt with it well.

 

[BoosterBosko]

It is tough playing bigger school when you are low on the enrollment. When i was in HS in western PA we had to play a really big nice school, with all new equipment and facilities. Walnut Height beat us every year. One year i thought we would win after a goal line stand with 2 seconds to go in the game. Then our coach made a bad call and a fumbled and freakin Walnut Heights recovered in the endzone for the win. It was a tough pill to swallow. Nobody dealt with it well.

It was more than a bad call Stef, he blew the game!! After my pep rally speech and your pick 6, the WHOLE TOWN was roaring!!! Coach Nickerson got what he had coming! Lets not forget about your pass interference....