like many of you guys keep saying. Seems to me that is being handily rejected again tonight. Now we know a lot of the Sanders vote last time was actually just anti Clinton votes. Bernie is doing pretty bad in places he won last time so it wasn't his ideology it was just many wouldn't vote for Clinton but they will vote Joe. I guess Trump knew what he was doing when he tried to get Biden out of the picture before he even got in the race. You can say it's still too far left if you want but it ain't left wing crazy like you would have us believe. I don't have any idea if Biden can beat Trump like the polls show, but I would bet some of the people that voted for Trump over Clinton will now vote for Biden and it won't take that many to make the difference.
So much for the country being FAR left
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The Dem party has been infiltrated by the far left and will continue it's slow slide into that ideology. I will say this about the Leftist red's they do play the long game well. They will bide their time and finally take over the Party.
But with that said still many Blue Dog Dems and moderates Reject a full on embracing of socialism. Many on this very board feel that way, most of my Liberal(not leftist) friends also feel that way. A party controlled by Bernie and the Squad leaves you and them with no party. Almost forcing that demographic to join the Rep.
So as they have told me that eventually this year most Dems would throw their support to Biden in a effort to save the Democratic party. If Bernie had got the nomination then where would the BlueDogs/Moderates go?
But The Leftist are smart, most will also join the Biden train in the short term, as they know they have time on their side and will continue to chip away at the younger generation and get more and more Red party's elected at all levels under the Guise of the Democratic party.
I have no issue with Moderate Dem's or Blue Dog Dem's...but the up and coming Leftist are scary.
But with that said still many Blue Dog Dems and moderates Reject a full on embracing of socialism. Many on this very board feel that way, most of my Liberal(not leftist) friends also feel that way. A party controlled by Bernie and the Squad leaves you and them with no party. Almost forcing that demographic to join the Rep.
So as they have told me that eventually this year most Dems would throw their support to Biden in a effort to save the Democratic party. If Bernie had got the nomination then where would the BlueDogs/Moderates go?
But The Leftist are smart, most will also join the Biden train in the short term, as they know they have time on their side and will continue to chip away at the younger generation and get more and more Red party's elected at all levels under the Guise of the Democratic party.
I have no issue with Moderate Dem's or Blue Dog Dem's...but the up and coming Leftist are scary.
It could finally mean that the Moderate Dems and the Moderate Republicans finally break off and form a badly need third party. But that's not where we are now.
Personally I would prefer to vote for Clinton before I would vote for Biden. He has flip flopped and bumbled during his time in the senate more than a fish out of water. His best campaign line so for is I was Obama's VP.
I don't understand why Michigan was even a consideration for Sanders. All I keep hearing in my head is "Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive." We heard that a ton in 2012. I am surprised that it has not been brought up during this election cycle more (the GM part), and especially in Michigan.
Biden barely remembers who Obama is, let alone Bin Laden. He would probably say that he marched with Bin Laden at Selma.
Sanders Strength especially in states like Michigan in 2016 was he was against NAFTA and TPP and he was going to be tuff on China, he promised he would not sign the ratification of TPP and would renegotiation NAFTA and would be tuff on China. It actually made Clinton flip flop on TPP and Nafta also but most didn't believe she was being honest so drove the union voters to Sanders, So the issues in 2016 played into Sanders favor and swung some votes his way. However 2020 none of those issues are a concern and now Unions have turned to healthcare, Sanders support of medicare for all is driving those union workers to support Biden this time around. I think he badly miss judged what was driving his support in 2016 versus the issues of today.
If hypothetically we were to go to a Medicare for all plan, I would think that the unions would be able to negotiate for Medicare Supplement plans. Not saying that is the answer, but I don't know why the Sanders campaign doesn't sell it like that.
Again I think he and his campaign badly misjudged the issues of 2020 and what he was campaigning on. He stuck with what worked for him in 2016. Had he been smart yes he would have looked at other options. Many of those union plans are considered part of their salary. So if you take those away to them you are taking away part of their pay, and that seems to be lost on him.
They haven't tried to run on realism. They ran on the big home run dreams. Turns out those had a limited constituency.
We had a generational move, in particular in the Reagan years, away from the excesses of government. we were coming off of Watergate, Vietnam, the Church Commission, very high marginal tax rates, etc.
Is it that surprising that when policy makers ignore the failures of private markets like health care being too expensive, education burden being too high, significant cuts in tax rates for the rich funded on the backs of the working and middle class, no accountability for banksters, and denial of science on the existence of climate change, that we'd end up with a movement the other way among the young who entered a world with high debt loads and lower income than the prior generation?
Even Trump was a canary in the coal mine on this. The boomer/older R base wants the government to do more to fix its problems. It just perceives the problems to be different - immigration, trade, and the cost of health care for old people.
We are probably entering an era where voters want the government to do more, not less. The constituency for a smaller government has weakened.
Suburban voters in my county came out yesterday for Biden. I think it was 8% more than in the 2016 primary. I think you're right in that this could be a broader indicative of Trumps weakness.
Joe Biden has an unusual stability to say things that are not true with a straight face. Primarily because he doesn't remember.
Joe Biden is not a return to normalcy and stability. Biden could drop dead at any moment. He's different in tenor from Trump but not kind. He says stupid stuff, he insults people he just doesn't do it as often as DJT.
As for the Dem party being suddenly moderate because a walking dead person is the Democrat primary nominee is silly.
Joe Biden is not a return to normalcy and stability. Biden could drop dead at any moment. He's different in tenor from Trump but not kind. He says stupid stuff, he insults people he just doesn't do it as often as DJT.
As for the Dem party being suddenly moderate because a walking dead person is the Democrat primary nominee is silly.
So you don't think having 11 million illegal immigrants in this country is not an issue? I do, however I am not against giving them a pathway to citizenship I just want to make sure in 10 - 20 years we haven't let in another 5-10 million illegals in again and are having this same debate... is that to much to ask? Let's strengthen our boarders and close the loopholes that allow them to stay. However I don't think a wall is the answer either, but we need to make sure everybody understands going forward illegal immigration is just that, illegal and they cannot stay here going forward.
Trade, I keep hearing we cannot afford to compete when we pay our workers 15 dollars an hours yet many dems are pushing to pay a burger flipper 15... yes let's run out all of the factories out and make McDonald's our new factory for the middle class sounds like a great plan!!
Healthcare...are you talking insurance or actual healthcare cost? Dems only answer is to just provide everybody with insurance, that does nothing to drive down cost. The affordability of "health care insurance" should not be the barometer for if healthcare is affordable.
Your first paragraph is an example of what I'm talking about - older voters, in particular older white voters in places with few immigrants want the government to do more on immigration. Younger voters are less fired up about that particular topic. It's a difference in the electorate across the generations.
I dunno about $15 being the number, but you have to acknowledge that increasing the min wage keeps winning state and local elections nationwide, suggesting it is a policy with broad support among more than just the young. We're on the path to $12/hr in this state. It's probably inevitable that the Federal rate ends up over $10 an hour if the Ds retake Congress and the White House at a time when the economy is doing ok.
M4A, as proposed by Bernie, was not really a cost reduction plan. The other Ds have generally thought more about ideas that would lower the cost of care as a part of paying for an expansion in coverage, such as offering a public option that would reimburse at something closer to Medicare rates than private insurance rates. But, yes, they have focused more on coverage expansion than cost. Certainly Obama did. Cost containment is harder to pass. It means making tough choices that are easy to attack.
Bernie got killed last night in counties he won big last time and counties where Clinton barely won Biden blew it out. A LOT of the Bernie vote was obviously just a vote against Clinton and he can't hold that now. Biden won EVERY county in 3 or 4 states last night, that's unheard of and a BUNCH of those were counties Bernie won last time.
No my first paragraph is an example of all young voters. When I was in my teens and 20's and even into my 30's I never thought twice about what each parties policy were and how they affected me. Most older voters start to see after living each parties policies how it really affects them. I saw first hand how the Dems NAFTA affected me and my family.
Would it also be fair to say that your view is affected by your age?
If you're 30-35, there has always been NAFTA. But student loans are a bigger deal to that generation than they were to people who are 60.
I am 52, no NAFTA passed in my mid 20's.
Save up and pay for it! Don't pick the $70,000 a year college. I went to college and I was not saddled with debt. I went to a college I could afford. My kids went to college paid for it out of their pocked and scholarships.
I know if Biden gets elected i'm buying stock in record player companies!
Our political system is set up as a 2 party system, a 3rd party can't remain long term, it will even supplant one of the parties or combine with one of the parties.
As the republican party becomes more liberal.....really middle aged and younger rep. like me are fine with Gay marriage etc. and are not emotional about abortion as talking points, are not going to fight hard if MJ is legalized, I could see a merger..Most of us are fine with a bit more taxes on the Rich, but we realize that higher Education and healthcare being free for everyone is impossible at a financial level. That it's not prudent to have open borders and let everyone in with out a vetting process and that the Ant-gun stuff is pure BS as a legit threat..
I agree the Nanny state is a Siren call for everyone, even Reagan increased the gov. not reduced it.
You are correct a lot of people want to increase the min. wage. It is clearly a failure on our education system to teach basic economics to the average joe. That cost will be passed on and it will accelerate many companies to use Technology to remove as many workers as possible from their payrolls.
It’s already happening now.
A lot of fast food restaurants have touch ordering screens. Schnucks, Walmart, Target etc all have self checkout isles. Schnucks even has a robot that goes up and down isles scanning inventory. No more minimum wage HS kid doing it anymore.
Margins mean everything to these businesses. $15/hour will crush them. Or they will be charging $10 for a gallon of milk.
I think that's what I was talking about.
Our local Menards has a teddy bear on the seat of their zambonie machine that cleans the floor. They have a sign on it that says "Progress"
I think that's a factor, but I also think that everyone thought Hillary was a slam dunk win and
Them robots can cook and serve the Big Macs.
Maybe you are being Obtuse, but the fast food industry could replace a lot of their work force with automation. Already they have tested in store Self serve ordering....see wal-mart self checkout...You order from a touch screen,pay debit. They have the automation that the Burgers,Fries..none of it fresh can be placed in machine and that machine will cook, heat assemble it and then minimal staff can serve it to customer.
I'd say in 15-20 years most high paying Trucker Jobs will be on the outs as well. They are working on two system automated driving....or having people drive from home via a Drone system.
Also their is a Huge concern that Brick and Mortar Colleges could become obsolete....for the most part. This is going on now to a degree but it could be come the Norm and probably should to reduce the cost of higher education...think about how much cheaper it would be to have one Professor on-line teaching 100,000 of students per class as opposed to having the infrastructure needed to support 20-30 students. Sure some hands on work is necessary, but all colleges could contract Lab work etc. in a general location to cover that.
Also having way fewer prof. and being on-line would make it easier for Parents and students to critic and decide if that Prof....is not for them teaching style etc.
I'd be for this at the High School level as well.....
Back in the day those stock boys at the super market were unionized and made well over min wage. Supermarket jobs used to pay better It was a big part of how Walmart attacked them - labor cost difference was material
B&M college eventually has to decline. Costs are too high. The problem is the early movers in online were scummy profit machines who focused on scamming government loan money over dislocating the market
I agree......Higher education is a scam at all levels, they want everyone to go to college to churn money, even though many graduate with a degree that is almost impossible to use.
I was being serious, not obtuse! I wonder who these businesses think will buy their products when one has job?
Do you really think that these big companies think on a broad scale like that? I mean they are beholding to their shareholders and profit. Think about how many business and industry have become obsolete and those workers find different employment. The won't be concerned with that at all...
At some point they still need people to have a decent job to buy their products. If they think about that they ain't very smart.
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