The transfer rules apply to both public and private. If your beef is that open enrollment isn't allowed at public schools then your issue is with the Missouri State Legislature, not MSHSAA and not with private schools.
Public/Private debate
- Thread starter Veer2Eternity
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The transfer rules apply to both public and private. If your beef is that open enrollment isn't allowed at public schools then your issue is with the Missouri State Legislature, not MSHSAA and not with private schools.
Thanks. I'm not justifying anything other than the rules that are already established by MSHSAA and the belief that parents should be allowed to choose for themselves where they send their kids. Don't like private schools? Then don't send your kids to one. If the rules change, then I'll support following them then too.
Your argument about people on here not liking the Missouri Enrollment procedures. That is not even what they are talking about. You just use that to back-up the NON-Evidence you have to support your claim. I have no dog in this fight, The Mox is just one man from the Great State of Texas...God Bless Texas and Texas Football...but I'd say, I would not want YOUR LIFE!
Your argument about people on here not liking the Missouri Enrollment procedures. That is not even what they are talking about. You just use that to back-up the NON-Evidence you have to support your claim. I have no dog in this fight, The Mox is just one man from the Great State of Texas...God Bless Texas and Texas Football...but I'd say, I would not want YOUR LIFE!
What is their issue then? How are MSHSAA's written rules "non-evidence"?
Personally, I'm not upset with someone choosing to go to a private school, or their parents choosing to go to that private school. I'm also not upset with giving said student a "scholarship" for them to attend that private school. I think anytime someone can use a gift from God to further themselves by getting their high school education and possibly their college education paid for, it's a blessing. All that I am saying is that public schools do not, legally, have that ability. If you can't prove that you live in our school district, then you cannot attend our school district. I'm not downing anyone for their choices, just saying that there are advantages to being able to do what privates do when it comes to the type of student athletes they have.
Spoken like a true Brown lawyer.....a poop brown lawyer!!Your argument about people on here not liking the Missouri Enrollment procedures. That is not even what they are talking about. You just use that to back-up the NON-Evidence you have to support your claim. I have no dog in this fight, The Mox is just one man from the Great State of Texas...God Bless Texas and Texas Football...but I'd say, I would not want YOUR LIFE!
No, my beef is that privates can literally have enrollees from anywhere. Not that public can't. That's the whole point, which you think the solution to has absolutely zero logic. Instead of removing privates from competing with publics (only for championships), you'd prefer to change the entire dichotomy of schooling. Makes sense.
Here is what the rules say on recruiting of athletes, Patterson is on the record as saying these kids were going to play for him no matter what. You can put any school besides Trinity and as Patterson says these kids were going to play for him if that is not admitting you were influenced by a person to attend for athletic or activaties purpose then MSHSAA is blind and turning a blind eye to what is going on in St Louis.
“I coached youth football in St. Louis for 13 years,” Patterson said, pointing to practicing players he’s known since then. “People don’t know that. That’s why they make assumptions. They don’t know these kids are going to play for me anyway. I don’t have to chase people down.”
I don't think all kids transfer for athletic reason to private schools but all those D-1 players and what Patterson is saying during interviews makes what is going on at Trinity stink of something fowl.
8. Recruiting of Athletes
- You will be ineligible for your career at a school if you are influenced by a person to attend that school for athletic or activities purposes. You may, however, return to your original school and be ineligible for no more than 365 days
- A student may be eligible at the public or nonpublic school located in the district in which the student's parents reside. In the case of a public multiple-school district, a student may be eligible at the school designated for the student to attend, based on parents' residence, by the board of education.
- If you transfer schools, you will be ineligible for 365 days, unless your circumstances meet one of the exceptions listed in the MSHSAA Residence and Transfer Rules (By-Law 3.10). Make an appointment with the school's athletic director to review these exceptions. Several, but not all, are described below.
- Exception 1: If you move with your entire family across a boundary line into your new school district, you will be eligible at your new school provided you were eligible in all other respects at your former school and provided there are no other issues with the transfer. You and your entire family must move to the new residence at the same time prior to attending classes.
- Always check with your school principal or athletic director before you transfer to determine whether it will affect your eligibility.
- Discipline follows a student to a new school. Being expelled from a school also causes 365 days of ineligibility for a student.
- Exception 2: A student may be eligible immediately at the school of his or her choice upon first being promoted from the 8th grade into the 9th grade, provided the student is eligible in all other respects.
- Exception 10: Foreign Exchange Students are eligible for varsity competition for one year only and only if they are seniors (semester 7 or 8), provided they are participating in an exchange program listed by CSIET. However, no member of the school's coaching staff for the sport concerned may serve as a host family, or eligibility of the student will be affected
- You shall become ineligible for 365 days if you transfer to another school for athletic reasons.
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This is currently better than 'must see TV' ......
The real problem is who is paying for the tuition and/or are they getting 'breaks' for being athletes? If a public school booster club paid an public school athlete's out of district tuition I'm sure MSHSAA would have an issue with that (as they should).No, my beef is that privates can literally have enrollees from anywhere. Not that public can't. That's the whole point, which you think the solution to has absolutely zero logic. Instead of removing privates from competing with publics (only for championships), you'd prefer to change the entire dichotomy of schooling. Makes sense.
8. Recruiting of Athletes
The MSHSAA rule you're celebrating applies to TRANSFER students only. It doesn't apply to students enrolling into 9th grade upon completion of their 8th grade year ... at ANY school. Public or private. I know you and the peanut gallery don't believe it, but it's true. Don't take MY word for it though. Give MSHSAA a call at (573) 875-4880. When Janie answers the phone, ask her to connect you to Harvey Richards. Tell him what you read and ask him directly.
Y'all really tried though.
- You will be ineligible for your career at a school if you are influenced by a person to attend that school for athletic or activities purposes. You may, however, return to your original school and be ineligible for no more than 365 days
The MSHSAA rule you're celebrating applies to TRANSFER students only. It doesn't apply to students enrolling into 9th grade upon completion of their 8th grade year ... at ANY school. Public or private. I know you and the peanut gallery don't believe it, but it's true. Don't take MY word for it though. Give MSHSAA a call at (573) 875-4880. When Janie answers the phone, ask her to connect you to Harvey Richards. Tell him what you read and ask him directly.
Y'all really tried though.
This is really a dumb question, but I will answer it for you. It is because they have D-1 offers from numerous schools. That is why they are considered D-1 athletes.
It isn't a problem. Athletic scholarships for high school students isn't allowed by MSHSAA. I realize it isn't something you're inclined to accept, but random individuals aren't granted access to families' private financial information simply to satisfy their curiosity. MSHSAA verifies such the same way they verify that public schools have documentation proving student/family residency.
It's not the answer you want, but those are the rules. You not liking them doesn't make them any less true.
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So when the coach said in the newspaper article that they would have followed him anywhere, that's not what you call being influenced??
Let me be clear. The term "undue influence" only applies to student transfers. Families can enroll their kid into high school for ANY STATED REASON they choose to. Yes, that includes enrolling your kid at a school because you want them to play for that specific coach. That applies to ANY school in Missouri, private and public. The kids that are Juniors there this year enrolled as 8th graders entering their 9th grade year. It is not a MSHSAA violation.
I think you are looking for 2.6.2 in the MSHSAA handbook concerning undue influence on middle school players:
Since they don't attend "Trinity Junior High"...which doesn't exist and they came from public middle school, yes this would be undue influence by definition.
- The contacting of a student(s) in another school by any person or group connected, directly or indirectly, with a member
school (including but not limited to alumni associations, booster groups or similar organizations), and attempting to persuade or induce that student(s), primarily for interscholastic activities purposes, to attend the inducer’s school.
Since they don't attend "Trinity Junior High"...which doesn't exist and they came from public middle school, yes this would be undue influence by definition.
MSHSAA does not agree with your interpretation of that rule. A family can CHOOSE to send their kid to any school. The key phrase to note is "attempting to persuade or induce that student(s), primarily for interscholastic activities purposes". If the parent states they chose a school for their kid and that they weren't persuaded or influenced by the coach primarily for athletic or activities purposes, then that's where it ends.
actually they are interpreting the rule correctly. Just because nothing has been done does not mean MSHSAA agrees with you.
I'm not sure who the "they" is you're referring to. If MSHSAA determined that no rules were violated then it DOES mean that they agree that Trinity is in compliance with the rules. Maybe you mean that MSHSAA doesn't like it? Liking the rules has nothing to do with it. Nothing has been done because MSHSAA found that there were no violations.
So MSHSAA has investigated that specific accusation this year? And specifically said that all was in order? Or, are you taking for granted that since nothing has been done, that everything is on the up and up?
MSHSAA doesn't audit every school every year. When students enroll in HS, all of the appropriate documents are sent to MSHSAA. If they aren't satisfactory then the kid in ineligible. EVERY transfer student is automatically ineligible until the family provides documentation PROVING that "everything is on the up and up".
I don't work for MSHSAA. All I know is MSHSAA's process because I called them and asked them. I'm paraphrasing the exact words here ... "If a school is found to have violated any of our rules then it would result in the penalties outlined in our rule book".
If you're looking for someone at MSHSAA to say the precise words you're looking for, then call them at (573) 875-4880.
Yes. Everything at Trinity is legit. They, like every other school that accepts incoming freshmen and transfers, had to prove to MSHSAA that they were in compliance.
What do YOU interpret it to mean? Do you think that MSHSAA requiring Trinity to verify the legitimacy of their players with documentation and allowing their players to be eligible to play means that Trinity is in violation of those rules?
I don't know any other way to take it. Maybe YOU do?
Dude you're tripping if you think the playing field is level. Just call a spade a spade. Stop beating around the bush. Everybody knows what is going on with LN and Trinity. It's no secret. Just own it. Embrace it.
So in conclusion Trinity is cheating, their coach through ignorance or arrogance admits they they are cheating and it is right there in print and MSHSAA apparently doesn’t read the Post Dispatch.
We should all be outraged and hurt for Trinity because they have had to suffer some forfeits while blatantly disregarding the rules.
Did I miss anything?
We should all be outraged and hurt for Trinity because they have had to suffer some forfeits while blatantly disregarding the rules.
Did I miss anything?
Just think of the all star team SW Missouri could have if we were allowed to have kids to play outside their district.
There are 5 pages of comments on this thread so I won't blame you for not reading all of it.
The playing field ISN'T "level". Public and private schools are not the same and the rules as they apply to them are not the same. Lutheran North and Trinity haven't violated any rules. That isn't ME saying it. That's MSHSAA saying it. How do they know that those schools didn't violate any rules? Because MSHSAA didn't just investigate them. They automatically ruled every kid that transferred to the schools ineligible until the kids' families PROVED to MSHSAA with multiple forms of documentation that they were legit.
How do I know that's what MSHSAA did? Because those are the rules, and they apply them to EVERY school EVERY time a transfer occurs. I know you don't want to believe it. I know you still think it isn't possible. I know you want me to "own it", but the facts just don't support any other conclusion. I hate it for you that it's the way this situation is.
No matter how badly you want to believe that Lutheran North and Trinity have violated MSHSAA rules, the fact is that they did not. You can fume all you want to. They're following the rules. If you want to hate something, hate the rules .... but crying about what you feel or what you think is happening doesn't mean that it's REALLY happening.
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Yes. You missed the fact that MSHSAA didn't find them to have violated the rules. You can keep crying on the message board or you can go to MSHSAA and do something about it. If you're outraged then get off the forum and call MSHSAA tomorrow.
Just think of the all star team SW Missouri could have if we were allowed to have kids to play outside their district.
You'd probably have one helluva team. You should support open enrollment for public schools. Have it be that any kid, anywhere in Missouri can enroll into any public school they choose to (provided there's room at the school) and for those transfers to be eligible immediately ... even if they're transferring for athletic reasons. Just like Florida does.
Then have MSHSAA allow Spring Football for high schools, like every other SEC State does.
Lol. I’m not crying. I don’t have a dog in the hunt. I’m just calling it like I see it. I didn’t call the FBI to report Pitino either but i’m not shocked he got busted. It looks to me like Trinity is tsking the Floyd Irons approach.
The quote is in the article. If the coach said it then it is an admission of the rules being violated.
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