Program point disparities

[luigi10_03]

South Iron boys vs Bismarck 1st round of the Arcadia Valley Thanksgiving Tournament saw South Iron win 105-9

5 days later the SI girls played Bismarck girls in the 1st round of the Valley Caledonia tournament. SI girls win 79-0

Combined Scores:
South Iron Basketball Program 184
Bismarck Basketball Program 9

Has this ever happened before in the history of Varsity athletics?!?

 

[have an idea]

It shouldn’t

 

[mike37]

Bad teams playing good teams in first round of tournament. It’s not good for either side.

 

[HoopsTournament]

Bad teams playing good teams in first round of tournament. It’s not good for either side.

What is your solution? If there are 8 teams, then you should play 1 vs. 8, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6 and 4 vs 5. It is basic bracketing principles. Otherwise it is unfair to the better teams.

 

[mike37]

There is no solution

 

[3Rfan]

There is no solution

Nobody should be that bad.

 

[mike37]

Maybe it’s not worth having a program or just playing jv teams?

 

[99eagle33]

Maybe the losing teams should just stop crying and remember that this is a competition. Everyone wants to praise successful teams but when they are too successful or when they beat someone too bad, we want to bash them. Yes the winning coach can do things to slow themselves down offensively, but he can only do so much. Losing is part of life, everyone should get used to it.

 

[dtowner]

Maybe more tournaments should try to create 6 team brackets where 1 and 2 get buys. (Or 12 teams brackets where 1-4 get buys.) This would lessen the chance that a district contender plays a team who will end of winning five or fewer games. Another answer would be for teams to not enter tournaments where they are much stronger than anyone else (or much weaker, but depending on your program you may not have a lot of options). I understand why someone would not want to leave the AV tournament with all of that tradition, but South Iron has won it so often that they have to at least wonder if some better competition would serve them well down the road.

I know it is easy to say, "if you don't like it, play better" but improving your program is not a simple act of will. If we want programs to improve, these games don't do anything but embarrass the school and make kids less likely to want to come out for the team. (participation is a huge problem for struggling programs for obvious reasons). Yes, losing is a part of life and learning to use it as motivation to improve is important. However, most losses at least afford some anonymity (people who aren't associated with either program hardly notice who wins a random game unless something-like a crazy score- sticks out). These games are just awful for the loser and not much better for the winner. I suspect that deep down, South Iron would have liked the score to be less lopsided. As someone who has been a fan of both a top level program and a program with a long history of losing, I can see it from both sides and it stinks all the way around. There has to be a better way.

 

[HoopsTournament]

There are two issues with "Don't enter a tournament":

1) In a tournament, you get 3 games (or possibly 4 for a holiday tournament). If you play one less tournament, you can only replace it with 2 games.

2) If you aren't in a tournament, you have to find 2 teams to schedule. If you are a very good team, it is not easy to find 2 teams that want to play you.

With that being said, I know that Milan went from 3 to 2 tournaments this year and added Greenwood and Monroe City to the schedule. So some teams do take this approach.

 

[dtowner]

I was thinking about those same issues. I was more suggesting that teams pick different tournaments to enter. Easier said than done, I grant you.

 

[jeffco sports guy]

I'm sure if SI would have tried to get into the Fountain City Classic or the Hillsboro tournament they could have in the last couple years. That would give them a chance to play better competition which in turn prepares them better for post season. I have a sneaky suspicion SI will get theirs in the Central Christmas tournament. I've seen it happen many times.

 

[Grip it and Rip it]

IMO this is a debate on character and sportsmanship rather than skill or tournament team participation. Superior teams/coaches know before the game begins that they are more dominate than their opponents. Most coaches are smart enough to figure out to stop a press up 25-30 points. After than, coaches are smart enough to figure out to stop transition layups after they are up 40-50. Most coaches are smart enough to figure out to slow the tempo, work the offense for several passes, and work on fundamentals when they are up big. Most coaches are smart enough to put their bench players in early and let them play extended minutes against inferior teams. Most coaches are smart enough to teach class and humility in victory. If there is no way for the inferior team to stop their opponent, than the responsibility is on the winning team/coach to show respect and finish the contest in a classy manner. It's a pretty simple concept. But when you deal with humans traits like ego, pride, and the desire for revenge gets in the way of seeing the larger picture. If a team is good enough to score 100 points, they are good enough to pass the ball around and run out the clock. Just my opinion.

Things that can be done:

MSHSAA change the rule to running clock at halftime if there is a 40 point or more disparity. Teams aren't coming back from that. Game is in hand. Bench players can play, everyone gets home earlier. And the thrashing is over faster.

I am all for playing as hard as possible. If you are up 50+ points at half, changes need to be made.

 

[jeffco sports guy]

IMO this is a debate on character and sportsmanship rather than skill or tournament team participation. Superior teams/coaches know before the game begins that they are more dominate than their opponents. Most coaches are smart enough to figure out to stop a press up 25-30 points. After than, coaches are smart enough to figure out to stop transition layups after they are up 40-50. Most coaches are smart enough to figure out to slow the tempo, work the offense for several passes, and work on fundamentals when they are up big. Most coaches are smart enough to put their bench players in early and let them play extended minutes against inferior teams. Most coaches are smart enough to teach class and humility in victory. If there is no way for the inferior team to stop their opponent, than the responsibility is on the winning team/coach to show respect and finish the contest in a classy manner. It's a pretty simple concept. But when you deal with humans traits like ego, pride, and the desire for revenge gets in the way of seeing the larger picture. If a team is good enough to score 100 points, they are good enough to pass the ball around and run out the clock. Just my opinion.

Things that can be done:

MSHSAA change the rule to running clock at halftime if there is a 40 point or more disparity. Teams aren't coming back from that. Game is in hand. Bench players can play, everyone gets home earlier. And the thrashing is over faster.

I am all for playing as hard as possible. If you are up 50+ points at half, changes need to be made.

I agree with you 100%. It's unfortunate that coaches would let the score get that much out of hand. That would been a perfect time for the bench players to get much needed minutes which in turn would help keep some parents off the coach & AD email list.

I did not see the game but from what I heard (multiple sources) SI pressed all of the first half. Is so, that is really unfortunate and I would hope karma catches up with them.

 

[Expect2Win]

It is hard to schedule. Changing tournaments is not always available. I would be South Iron won't always be that good, and Bismarck would struggle that much. I am disappointed to see a goose egg. There has to be a way around that kind of humiliation, a zone, or a sagging man.

 

[wahoolives]

Coaching at a smaller school it is sometimes harder to lessen the outcome in a tournament because if you are playing JV tournaments you may have less people dressed out then you would for a regular season game so you may not have as many on your bench.
That being said there is no reason you should ever beat someone by almost 100 points. You know going into a game when you are that much superior and there are ways to avoid that sort of outcome, don't press as long as you normally would, make a certain amount of passes before you shoot. Walk the ball down the floor on every possession even off of a turnover. Play a 2-3 zone even if you are a pressing or man team that never practices it.
I would be in favor of changing the 30 point mercy rule so that it can be initiated at any time in the 2nd half if the losing coach so requests. I would also be in favor of not making the running clock mandatory until the last 3 minutes in the 4th quarter unless the coach that is behind agrees.

IMO this is a debate on character and sportsmanship rather than skill or tournament team participation. Superior teams/coaches know before the game begins that they are more dominate than their opponents. Most coaches are smart enough to figure out to stop a press up 25-30 points. After than, coaches are smart enough to figure out to stop transition layups after they are up 40-50. Most coaches are smart enough to figure out to slow the tempo, work the offense for several passes, and work on fundamentals when they are up big. Most coaches are smart enough to put their bench players in early and let them play extended minutes against inferior teams. Most coaches are smart enough to teach class and humility in victory. If there is no way for the inferior team to stop their opponent, than the responsibility is on the winning team/coach to show respect and finish the contest in a classy manner. It's a pretty simple concept. But when you deal with humans traits like ego, pride, and the desire for revenge gets in the way of seeing the larger picture. If a team is good enough to score 100 points, they are good enough to pass the ball around and run out the clock. Just my opinion.

Things that can be done:

MSHSAA change the rule to running clock at halftime if there is a 40 point or more disparity. Teams aren't coming back from that. Game is in hand. Bench players can play, everyone gets home earlier. And the thrashing is over faster.

I am all for playing as hard as possible. If you are up 50+ points at half, changes need to be made.