Post dispatch top 30

[Pancho and Lefty]

Interesting in the of top 30 players in the STL region, 16 of them come from private/parochial schools, many from the same few schools. Percentage wise the numbers are very skewed in many more public schools rather than than private/parochial. Not trying to start the same old dialog on this subject, but if these schools are assembling all the talent, why isn't is obvious to just put them in their own classification? I don't know all the particulars, but seems to me the new success bump up for schools really won't make much difference. If LN for example has multiple D1 type kids, is moving them up to class 3 or 4 really going to change anything? I would think if you have that many high caliber kids, they would be able to compete at the highest division.

I don't fault parents for sending their kids to what they feel is a better situation. We all want the best for our kids. I don't see how there is anyway you can twist it to where it's fair for these teams with players from all over and multiple transfer students to play teams that are bound to their attendance zone only. And don't give me the "just work harder" argument. That's like saying we are going to fight and you have a baseball bat and I have a popsicle stick. I can't just swing my popsicle stick harder.

Again, put them in their own division and let them do their own thing.

 

[anon_o1osz027druk9]

Interesting in the of top 30 players in the STL region, 16 of them come from private/parochial schools, many from the same few schools. Percentage wise the numbers are very skewed in many more public schools rather than than private/parochial. Not trying to start the same old dialog on this subject, but if these schools are assembling all the talent, why isn't is obvious to just put them in their own classification? I don't know all the particulars, but seems to me the new success bump up for schools really won't make much difference. If LN for example has multiple D1 type kids, is moving them up to class 3 or 4 really going to change anything? I would think if you have that many high caliber kids, they would be able to compete at the highest division.

I don't fault parents for sending their kids to what they feel is a better situation. We all want the best for our kids. I don't see how there is anyway you can twist it to where it's fair for these teams with players from all over and multiple transfer students to play teams that are bound to their attendance zone only. And don't give me the "just work harder" argument. That's like saying we are going to fight and you have a baseball bat and I have a popsicle stick. I can't just swing my popsicle stick harder.

Again, put them in their own division and let them do their own thing.

The state loves them private schools. Making sense isn’t the solution. It’s to pretend there’s no problem.

 

[hangmanbobbyjaggers]

Interesting in the of top 30 players in the STL region, 16 of them come from private/parochial schools, many from the same few schools. Percentage wise the numbers are very skewed in many more public schools rather than than private/parochial. Not trying to start the same old dialog on this subject, but if these schools are assembling all the talent, why isn't is obvious to just put them in their own classification? I don't know all the particulars, but seems to me the new success bump up for schools really won't make much difference. If LN for example has multiple D1 type kids, is moving them up to class 3 or 4 really going to change anything? I would think if you have that many high caliber kids, they would be able to compete at the highest division.

I don't fault parents for sending their kids to what they feel is a better situation. We all want the best for our kids. I don't see how there is anyway you can twist it to where it's fair for these teams with players from all over and multiple transfer students to play teams that are bound to their attendance zone only. And don't give me the "just work harder" argument. That's like saying we are going to fight and you have a baseball bat and I have a popsicle stick. I can't just swing my popsicle stick harder.

Again, put them in their own division and let them do their own thing.

It did not help them last year in class 2! How would it help them in the biggest class?

 

[Pancho and Lefty]

It did not help them last year in class 2! How would it help them in the biggest class?

Right, I get that argument. They have yet to win it all, but still....Just one man's opinion.

 

[FBisLife12]

Right, I get that argument. They have yet to win it all, but still....Just one man's opinion.

Trinity won Class 3 last year. Is there a level higher than State Champion?

Private schools should DEFINITELY be in a separate post-season division. The reason they aren’t isn’t because of some imaginary conspiracy by “The State”. It’s because the majority of public school ADs haven’t voted in support of the initiative ... and it isn’t because they love private schools.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Trinity won Class 3 last year. Is there a level higher than State Champion?

Private schools should DEFINITELY be in a separate post-season division. The reason they aren’t isn’t because of some imaginary conspiracy by “The State”. It’s because the majority of public school ADs haven’t voted in support of the initiative ... and it isn’t because they love private schools.

keep moving the private schools up and sooner or later the big boys in class 3 and 4 are gonna get a taste and that's when the changes get made. Imagine Helias with stl recruiting ground. Ouch.

 

[FBisLife12]

keep moving the private schools up and sooner or later the big boys in class 3 and 4 are gonna get a taste and that's when the changes get made. Imagine Helias with stl recruiting ground. Ouch.

It’s coming. Without the 1.35 multiplier next year, Lutheran North will drop to Class 1. If they trigger the bump up 2 classifications, then they’ll be in Class 3. I don’t see there being a difference in talent or roster size between Class 2 and 3. What IS going to affect change is that Lutheran North has a middle school now. So, there’ll be an increase in enrollment numbers that should push them into Class 4 in 3-4 years.

 

[Majost]

The state loves them private schools. Making sense isn’t the solution. It’s to pretend there’s no problem.

Just curious. You do know MSHSAA was founded by public and PRIVATE schools right? So if you think we should split from MSHSAA give the private schools half of the money that MSHSAA holds right now.

 

[Jomjam]

It’s coming. Without the 1.35 multiplier next year, Lutheran North will drop to Class 1. If they trigger the bump up 2 classifications, then they’ll be in Class 3. I don’t see there being a difference in talent or roster size between Class 2 and 3. What IS going to affect change is that Lutheran North has a middle school now. So, there’ll be an increase in enrollment numbers that should push them into Class 4 in 3-4 years.

Do you think 7-8th will really push more kids to Lutheran North. I know the kids now don't get free rides like everyone here thinks they do, so will 2 more years keep some of the families from sending the kids there?

 

[Pancho and Lefty]

Trinity won Class 3 last year. Is there a level higher than State Champion?

Private schools should DEFINITELY be in a separate post-season division. The reason they aren’t isn’t because of some imaginary conspiracy by “The State”. It’s because the majority of public school ADs haven’t voted in support of the initiative ... and it isn’t because they love private schools.

The haven't won it all I was referring to is Lutheran N, not Trinity.

I have heard that theory about not wanting them to split because of a fear that the privates will go "all in" on recruiting and really go overboard. Guess I could get that point, but to me, if you think they are playing unfair with a different set of rules, don't schedule them. Obviously in the current set up, come playoff time, teams don't have a choice.

 

[Missouri Kid]

Just curious. You do know MSHSAA was founded by public and PRIVATE schools right? So if you think we should split from MSHSAA give the private schools half of the money that MSHSAA holds right now.

Why half?

 

[hangmanbobbyjaggers]

Right, I get that argument. They have yet to win it all, but still....Just one man's opinion.

It is THE Man's opinion!

 

[FBisLife12]

Do you think 7-8th will really push more kids to Lutheran North. I know the kids now don't get free rides like everyone here thinks they do, so will 2 more years keep some of the families from sending the kids there?

Their middle school is 6th-8th and I guess time will tell. Families that can afford $650/month and see the advantages of a private school education will likely do it. I know the creation of the middle school program is driven by the demand for one. With respect to football, it’s an opportunity to strengthen the culture of the program ... which will only help them.

 

[FBisLife12]

The haven't won it all I was referring to is Lutheran N, not Trinity.

I have heard that theory about not wanting them to split because of a fear that the privates will go "all in" on recruiting and really go overboard. Guess I could get that point, but to me, if you think they are playing unfair with a different set of rules, don't schedule them. Obviously in the current set up, come playoff time, teams don't have a choice.

Several teams, public and private, have already chosen to not schedule Lutheran North. The conference they’re in is all private schools, that ALL recruit from the same metropolitan area, and 2 schools have chose to not play them during the regular season (effectively eliminating their teams from winning the conference OR their players from all-conference awards). There isn’t a shortage of teams they can play. If the Class 4 schools in The Metro League won’t, there are plenty of out-of-state and Class 5/6 schools that will.

Private schools ALREADY “go all in on recruiting”. Isn’t that what you’ve been bitching about all Summer? Nope. Public school ADs don’t vote for it because they know it’ll only create another set of issues. Financial ones, that have nothing to do with private schools accepting transfers (because there are more PUBLIC school transfers every year than there are private school ones). It’s because high school sports in Missouri isn’t the cash cow you all think it is and splitting the pie only makes it worse.

It’d be different if small private football teams were dominating state championships, but they AREN’T. Public school fans are just butt hurt that Lutheran North, Ritter and Trinity get so much attention. It isn’t about safety (bc their opponents aren’t injured at a higher rate than any other team ... and the statistics bear that fact). It’s because down state small public schools wish their kids had the same opportunities, and they don’t know that it’s their own coaches (that don’t understand the recruiting process) or their own lack of effort taking their kids to camps and scouting events, that is behind it.

Well, that, and the fact that maybe Johnny just isn’t good enough to play beyond Class 2 and 3 high school in Missouri.

 

[hangmanbobbyjaggers]

The haven't won it all I was referring to is Lutheran N, not Trinity.

I have heard that theory about not wanting them to split because of a fear that the privates will go "all in" on recruiting and really go overboard. Guess I could get that point, but to me, if you think they are playing unfair with a different set of rules, don't schedule them. Obviously in the current set up, come playoff time, teams don't have a choice.

As a long time coach in the public school system, Athletics is a great way of teaching kids how to compete in an unfair world (just like the real world); kids work as a team, learn self discipline and great frankly sports save many kids from going down a destructive path in life (for sports is all that they have to give them hope of making it to college or through hs). I have never had a problem losing to private schools (I have lost several district basketball championships to private schools and several play-off football games as an assistant FB coach) because as a coach, who loves to compete, I wanted to play the best teams to push my kids to another level of play. I know Some private schools recruit (some do not have to because parents want their kids in the best situations), but all that stuff happens in the public school just as well. All I am saying is that private schools made us better than we ever would have been. That is competition! You see that is what should be focused on. Competition. Why must we win a state title to be considered a winner in HS sports? I run travel basketball teams and have had youth football teams. For both, I set schedules with many games we know that we have little chance of winning so kids will learn to compete no matter who they play against. HS sports should be about the competition. The comrade. The journey. The life long friends and coaches you make along the way and building of young men and women into better citizens for tomorrow, not worrying about who is winning a state title or who is recruiting who.

 

[bueno_Tuco]

Several teams, public and private, have already chosen to not schedule Lutheran North. The conference they’re in is all private schools, that ALL recruit from the same metropolitan area, and 2 schools have chose to not play them during the regular season (effectively eliminating their teams from winning the conference OR their players from all-conference awards). There isn’t a shortage of teams they can play. If the Class 4 schools in The Metro League won’t, there are plenty of out-of-state and Class 5/6 schools that will.

Private schools ALREADY “go all in on recruiting”. Isn’t that what you’ve been bitching about all Summer? Nope. Public school ADs don’t vote for it because they know it’ll only create another set of issues. Financial ones, that have nothing to do with private schools accepting transfers (because there are more PUBLIC school transfers every year than there are private school ones). It’s because high school sports in Missouri isn’t the cash cow you all think it is and splitting the pie only makes it worse.

It’d be different if small private football teams were dominating state championships, but they AREN’T. Public school fans are just butt hurt that Lutheran North, Ritter and Trinity get so much attention. It isn’t about safety (bc their opponents aren’t injured at a higher rate than any other team ... and the statistics bear that fact). It’s because down state small public schools wish their kids had the same opportunities, and they don’t know that it’s their own coaches (that don’t understand the recruiting process) or their own lack of effort taking their kids to camps and scouting events, that is behind it.

Well, that, and the fact that maybe Johnny just isn’t good enough to play beyond Class 2 and 3 high school in Missouri.

Honestly most of players parents in our little town are more concerned about their kids doing well in school and in life than they are of them playing football at the next level

 

[Rcarlisle314]

The public schools in north county have continued on a downward spiral. They is pushing parents in north county to look for private alternatives which is why you will see schools like LN and TC getting more kids since those are the two private schools alternatives for boys in north county. It is also why you see schools like Hazelwood Central\East and McCluer North not being as good as they once were.

 

[bueno_Tuco]

The public schools in north county have continued on a downward spiral. They is pushing parents in north county to look for private alternatives which is why you will see schools like LN and TC getting more kids since those are the two private schools alternatives for boys in north county. It is also why you see schools like Hazelwood Central\East and McCluer North not being as good as they once were.

Tuition is right at $11,000 a year. I couldn’t have afforded that when my kids were in school. If it wasn’t for the donors kicking in 2 million a year for scholarships probably 75% of their football team wouldn’t be going to school there.

I think if a high school kid has money coming from outside of his family to pay for him to attend he shouldn’t be eligible for sports

 

[Pancho and Lefty]

As a long time coach in the public school system, Athletics is a great way of teaching kids how to compete in an unfair world (just like the real world); kids work as a team, learn self discipline and great frankly sports save many kids from going down a destructive path in life (for sports is all that they have to give them hope of making it to college or through hs). I have never had a problem losing to private schools (I have lost several district basketball championships to private schools and several play-off football games as an assistant FB coach) because as a coach, who loves to compete, I wanted to play the best teams to push my kids to another level of play. I know Some private schools recruit (some do not have to because parents want their kids in the best situations), but all that stuff happens in the public school just as well. All I am saying is that private schools made us better than we ever would have been. That is competition! You see that is what should be focused on. Competition. Why must we win a state title to be considered a winner in HS sports? I run travel basketball teams and have had youth football teams. For both, I set schedules with many games we know that we have little chance of winning so kids will learn to compete no matter who they play against. HS sports should be about the competition. The comrade. The journey. The life long friends and coaches you make along the way and building of young men and women into better citizens for tomorrow, not worrying about who is winning a state title or who is recruiting who.

Totally get all of that, losing teaches character. Agree on scheduling better competition; I see so many teams nowadays that are just scheduling wins.

I just don't see how a team like Grandview last year playing LN is in anyway fair. That isn't competition and that didn't make them better; that's a slaughter. Nothing against Grandview, they are a rebuilding program, just returned to playing a varsity schedule. The only way those two teams are similar is in they have similar enrollments. Again just my opinion.

 

[Pancho and Lefty]

Several teams, public and private, have already chosen to not schedule Lutheran North. The conference they’re in is all private schools, that ALL recruit from the same metropolitan area, and 2 schools have chose to not play them during the regular season (effectively eliminating their teams from winning the conference OR their players from all-conference awards). There isn’t a shortage of teams they can play. If the Class 4 schools in The Metro League won’t, there are plenty of out-of-state and Class 5/6 schools that will.

Private schools ALREADY “go all in on recruiting”. Isn’t that what you’ve been bitching about all Summer? Nope. Public school ADs don’t vote for it because they know it’ll only create another set of issues. Financial ones, that have nothing to do with private schools accepting transfers (because there are more PUBLIC school transfers every year than there are private school ones). It’s because high school sports in Missouri isn’t the cash cow you all think it is and splitting the pie only makes it worse.

It’d be different if small private football teams were dominating state championships, but they AREN’T. Public school fans are just butt hurt that Lutheran North, Ritter and Trinity get so much attention. It isn’t about safety (bc their opponents aren’t injured at a higher rate than any other team ... and the statistics bear that fact). It’s because down state small public schools wish their kids had the same opportunities, and they don’t know that it’s their own coaches (that don’t understand the recruiting process) or their own lack of effort taking their kids to camps and scouting events, that is behind it.

Well, that, and the fact that maybe Johnny just isn’t good enough to play beyond Class 2 and 3 high school in Missouri.

I am not going to argue with everything. I haven't complained about it all summer. Honestly it affects me in no way. Not sure how public school would have financial hardships if the private schools went to a separate division. I don't think its because coaches don't understand the recruiting process (not sure if you mean high school or college recruiting. High school recruiting is illegal, and college recruiting I think most understand it, it is more of many of the small school teams don't have many players worthy of being recruited. Totally agree with Johnny isn't good enough like you said). In anyway, good luck this season.