Pathway to Citizenship....Biden's plan

[bullitpdq68]

I am not at all against a pathway for illegal immigrants, who currently reside in our country as long as we look at how they are contributing to society. I think many are living a peaceful life here in the states and if they can support themselves and are law abiding citizens I think we need to offer them some sort of pathway.
But if we do this we cannot be looking at doing this again 20 years down the road with another 11 million illegals, this is the second time we will have done this, and we still have not figure out how to address those who illegally enter our country's borders and what to do about it once they are here? So this needs to be addressed along with the pathway, so we are not right back where we are right now in history! At some point we need to address when do we stop letting illegals continue to flood in and do nothing to stem the tide, you have to almost have a zero policy if caught in the country illegally you can never become a citizen there is no pathway going forward for those who illegally cross our borders looking to become citizens.

And no I don't agree with the Dems that just not calling them illegal is the answer....if you enter the States by crossing the borders illegally, you are here illegally, which makes you an illegal immigrant....am I missing something?

Democrats and Biden prepare to unveil bill that would provide a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants

The Biden administration, in concert with Hill Democrats, is preparing to unveil legislation this week that seeks to provide a pathway to citizenship to the 11 million undocumented immigrants living in the United States.

www.cnn.com

 

[Arcola]

What I don’t understand is with all of the travel restrictions due to Covid but President Biden is okay with allowing these undocumented immigrants at the border into the country?

 

[3Rfan]

I am not at all against a pathway for illegal immigrants, who currently reside in our country as long as we look at how they are contributing to society. I think many are living a peaceful life here in the states and if they can support themselves and are law abiding citizens I think we need to offer them some sort of pathway.
But if we do this we cannot be looking at doing this again 20 years down the road with another 11 million illegals, this is the second time we will have done this, and we still have not figure out how to address those who illegally enter our country's borders and what to do about it once they are here? So this needs to be addressed along with the pathway, so we are not right back where we are right now in history! At some point we need to address when do we stop letting illegals continue to flood in and do nothing to stem the tide, you have to almost have a zero policy if caught in the country illegally you can never become a citizen there is no pathway going forward for those who illegally cross our borders looking to become citizens.

And no I don't agree with the Dems that just not calling them illegal is the answer....if you enter the States by crossing the borders illegally, you are here illegally, which makes you an illegal immigrant....am I missing something?

Democrats and Biden prepare to unveil bill that would provide a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants

The Biden administration, in concert with Hill Democrats, is preparing to unveil legislation this week that seeks to provide a pathway to citizenship to the 11 million undocumented immigrants living in the United States.

www.cnn.com

If we would send out all of the those here illegally because they overstayed their visa we could cut down on the number illegals too. It's somebody's job to know where those people are at all times and that they're doing what they are supposed be doing to according to their visa. Seems like I remember some guys flying planes into buildings that were here on expired visas.

 

[MGHS]

People just give lip service to undocumented illegals and visa over stays.....the problem will never be fixed or even slowed down. The power elites have to much to gain from stopping the flow of cheap disposable labor that also depresses the wages of actual citizens.

 

[r14veer]

People just give lip service to undocumented illegals and visa over stays.....the problem will never be fixed or even slowed down. The power elites have to much to gain from stopping the flow of cheap disposable labor that also depresses the wages of actual citizens.

(Alleged) Free-Market Capitalism Catch-22. It's the ultimate irony of a primarily capitalistic system. It will be its own downfall over time. Not that other systems don't have their own considerable faults and contradictions, of course, this just happens to be one of the big ones for (alleged) free-market capitalism.

Every problem of every economic system ever devised has always been the power elites, so this is what I wonder: why are we so doggedly determined to keep the structures that prop them up? They use nationalism/patriotism as a rhetorical tool that is astonishingly (and pathetically) effective at keeping them in power.

 

[bullitpdq68]

(Alleged) Free-Market Capitalism Catch-22. It's the ultimate irony of a primarily capitalistic system. It will be its own downfall over time. Not that other systems don't have their own considerable faults and contradictions, of course, this just happens to be one of the big ones for (alleged) free-market capitalism.

Every problem of every economic system ever devised has always been the power elites, so this is what I wonder: why are we so doggedly determined to keep the structures that prop them up? They use nationalism/patriotism as a rhetorical tool that is astonishingly (and pathetically) effective at keeping them in power.

You know this sort of reminds me of tax cuts....There are many on this board who get so bent out of shape for wanting to increase taxes on the 1%....I don't understand that, why? These people do not use thier money to create jobs... it is corporations that that create the jobs, let's reduce taxes on corporations for increasing the wages and benefits of the average worker and increase taxes on those individuals who keep the money on the sideline.
Why are we trying to artificially force an increase in wages by raising minimum wage? It is already proven that corporations will increase wages if there is a tax benefit to them, however right now that tax benefit only applies if they inflate the wages of just the very few top brass. Give corporations (a tax break) a reason to increase the wages of all workers by enacting targeted tax cuts for doing so. You would see wages improve along with the economy. Because that money would go into the hands of millions who would spend it every day helping raise all wages and lower unemployment, not just a few at the top who don't. But the rich thru the pubs have somehow convinced people if you raise taxes on the 1% you are raising taxes on yourself...The elites in power have done that to keep everybody else chasing the dream....to me it does not make sense that Billionaires people like the Trump's and there are many others besides him, just an example, can use the tax code while making billions to only pay $700 in taxes all in the name of making the economy go around. But yet the average person working for these individuals barely getting each week paying thousands in taxes at the end of the year.....

 

[3Rfan]

People just give lip service to undocumented illegals and visa over stays.....the problem will never be fixed or even slowed down. The power elites have to much to gain from stopping the flow of cheap disposable labor that also depresses the wages of actual citizens.

Ask the farmers in the south and west. They can't find enough workers to get their crops out of the field or off fruit off the trees. How many folks do you know that want to do the job those people for even double what the current workers get? On top of that they have to go from one place to another 2 or 3 times a year to follow the crops that need to be harvested at the time.

 

[MGHS]

(Alleged) Free-Market Capitalism Catch-22. It's the ultimate irony of a primarily capitalistic system. It will be its own downfall over time. Not that other systems don't have their own considerable faults and contradictions, of course, this just happens to be one of the big ones for (alleged) free-market capitalism.

Every problem of every economic system ever devised has always been the power elites, so this is what I wonder: why are we so doggedly determined to keep the structures that prop them up? They use nationalism/patriotism as a rhetorical tool that is astonishingly (and pathetically) effective at keeping them in power.

Well socialism/Communism become oligarchy's by their nature and the atrocities that happen under those systems can't even be mitigated. At least under our capitalistic system, which is far from a Laissez fair capitalistic approach some of the faults can be at least slowed down to a degree.

Nationalism and Patriotism is not what keeps the Power elites in power from the left side of,course Money and the Control of the narrative of the MSM and big tech for the left has a great influence on the masses . I mean the Dem's are not flag waving Patriots that are hard core Believers in the Constitution as being absolute.

On the Right Money,Nationalism and Patriotism/Constitution are used to garner votes and to keep them in power....that and the promise of less taxes and even Lesser gov. interference. Which almost never happen......

Of course the Cultural divide is used by both the Right and Left to maintain the power structure as well.


I mean think about this if the Left stopped all the silly gun control stuff trying to ban semi-automatic weapons which includes most pistols,shotguns and rifles....then a a lot of conservatives would be more prone to lean democratic.

And if the Right would Shut up about Abortion and actually focus on reducing gov. waste and lowering taxes then a lot of the dem's might be more republican on things.

But nope that is not the way the game is played because that is not how you get elected. You find issues that people are passionate about and then you weaponize them from both sides.

Is it time for a national divorce? - Washington Examiner

There have been many challenges in 2020, not the least of which is the increasing division within our country. A number of unforeseen circumstances, most notably the COVID-19 pandemic, have magnified how differently we respond to crises. The combination of health concerns, social and racial...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Connecting California: Let's consider a national 'divorce' so Americans can stay friends

Joe Mathews shares the arguments of scholars who suggest America has always dealt with, even benefitted from, the threat of breaking up.

www.desertsun.com

 

[MGHS]

Ask the farmers in the south and west. They can't find enough workers to get their crops out of the field or off fruit off the trees. How many folks do you know that want to do the job those people for even double what the current workers get? On top of that they have to go from one place to another 2 or 3 times a year to follow the crops that need to be harvested at the time.

That is because nobody in America is really poor or struggling....just less wealth. Easier to live off the gov. tit than to do hard labor.

 

[MGHS]

You know this sort of reminds me of tax cuts....There are many on this board who get so bent out of shape for wanting to increase taxes on the 1%....I don't understand that, why? These people do not use thier money to create jobs... it is corporations that that create the jobs, let's reduce taxes on corporations for increasing the wages and benefits of the average worker and increase taxes on those individuals who keep the money on the sideline.
Why are we trying to artificially force an increase in wages by raising minimum wage? It is already proven that corporations will increase wages if there is a tax benefit to them, however right now that tax benefit only applies if they inflate the wages of just the very few top brass. Give corporations (a tax break) a reason to increase the wages of all workers by enacting targeted tax cuts for doing so. You would see wages improve along with the economy. Because that money would go into the hands of millions who would spend it every day helping raise all wages and lower unemployment, not just a few at the top who don't. But the rich thru the pubs have somehow convinced people if you raise taxes on the 1% you are raising taxes on yourself...The elites in power have done that to keep everybody else chasing the dream....to me it does not make sense that Billionaires people like the Trump's and there are many others besides him, just an example, can use the tax code while making billions to only pay $700 in taxes all in the name of making the economy go around. But yet the average person working for these individuals barely getting each week paying thousands in taxes at the end of the year.....

It's the principle of the situation, the 1% according to the data from the Fed's shows how much the 1% pays....

Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2018 Update

The federal income tax data demonstrates that the U.S. individual income tax continues to be very progressive, borne primarily by the highest income earners

taxfoundation.org

.


I'd think a nearly 40% tax rate is high enough even for the Rich. I really don't care if the Rich have to pay more, but I'm not going to fight or give a darn either because they already pay a lot.

What I do care about is Free Loaders,Leaches, Grifters and the Shiftless...the Bring nothing to society,America or their Fellow Human beings at all.

Now I do agree that Corporations should focus on building up their Companies and making profits for their shareholders to a larger degree as opposed to paying out bonus's and such to individual Elites. Which the tend not to do.

 

[bullitpdq68]

Now I do agree that Corporations should focus on building up their Companies and making profits for their shareholders to a larger degree as opposed to paying out bonus's and such to individual Elites. Which the tend not to do.

Corporations tend to be profit and short team minded today. Alot of that is people now investing in the market are not looking for long term sustainable stocks, they are looking for that quick hitting home run. So in order to get the dollars companies have to show investors they can make you rich quick.

 

[r14veer]

Well socialism/Communism become oligarchy's by their nature and the atrocities that happen under those systems can't even be mitigated. At least under our capitalistic system, which is far from a Laissez fair capitalistic approach some of the faults can be at least slowed down to a degree.

Nationalism and Patriotism is not what keeps the Power elites in power from the left side of,course Money and the Control of the narrative of the MSM and big tech for the left has a great influence on the masses . I mean the Dem's are not flag waving Patriots that are hard core Believers in the Constitution as being absolute.

On the Right Money,Nationalism and Patriotism/Constitution are used to garner votes and to keep them in power....that and the promise of less taxes and even Lesser gov. interference. Which almost never happen......

Of course the Cultural divide is used by both the Right and Left to maintain the power structure as well.


I mean think about this if the Left stopped all the silly gun control stuff trying to ban semi-automatic weapons which includes most pistols,shotguns and rifles....then a a lot of conservatives would be more prone to lean democratic.

And if the Right would Shut up about Abortion and actually focus on reducing gov. waste and lowering taxes then a lot of the dem's might be more republican on things.

But nope that is not the way the game is played because that is not how you get elected. You find issues that people are passionate about and then you weaponize them from both sides.

Is it time for a national divorce? - Washington Examiner

There have been many challenges in 2020, not the least of which is the increasing division within our country. A number of unforeseen circumstances, most notably the COVID-19 pandemic, have magnified how differently we respond to crises. The combination of health concerns, social and racial...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Connecting California: Let's consider a national 'divorce' so Americans can stay friends

Joe Mathews shares the arguments of scholars who suggest America has always dealt with, even benefitted from, the threat of breaking up.

www.desertsun.com

I think you're right on a good deal of this. I actually kind of think that if the left had stopped focusing a so much on gun control a long time ago, there would probably be less people freaking out and buying guns and ammo every time a democrat is elected (or even when they think one might be elected), thereby reducing the amount of guns in the general population. It's almost like unintended consequences never cross the minds of very many politicians when they're in the political moment.

Every time I hear something about the "mainstream media narrative," I wonder a few things: Is Fox News not mainstream, and do they not create their own narrative? They were the most watched news network...by a lot...for a nearly 2 decades (as of January 21 of this year, they are not in the top spot for the first time over that span). Many of those years they had more viewership than the other major news networks combined...which would make Fox the mainstream, and quite often, if we're talking about the actual definition of mainstream and not the one invented by some on the right.

On the campaign rhetoric, I would challenge you to find a Democratic campaign ad that doesn't use the same old patriotic color scheme, music, and/or imagery as Republican ads (maybe not to the exact hyper-degree of flying eagles, of course). They may not lean on nationalism as a rhetorical campaign tool, but they definitely use the images of patriotism purposefully.

Also, I hope no one thinks the Constitution is absolute, since in the Constitution it has a mechanism for changing it, fundamentally meaning the document isn't absolute. I don't think every flag-waving patriot (the flag doesn't make the patriot, but I digress) actually thinks the Constitution is absolute either (despite what they may say), otherwise they wouldn't talk about amending the Constitution to correct perceived slights.

I think what you mean is that for the current moment, until it is once again amended, it is the absolute law of the land in the courts. But even this brings up a subject that many people just do not try to comprehend: the Constitution, being a very short governing document, is subject to interpretation. It has to be. The founders did not and could not think of every single situation that may arise (thus the 27 amendments to the document). This is the fundamental purpose of the judicial branch. Some may not agree on interpretations, but that's the nature of interpretations, isn't it? Just ask all the different denominations of all the different religions of the world. It doesn't mean that they aren't following the Constitution when their interpretation doesn't match with yours, it just means that your interpretations are different.

 

[r14veer]

It's the principle of the situation, the 1% according to the data from the Fed's shows how much the 1% pays....

Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2018 Update

The federal income tax data demonstrates that the U.S. individual income tax continues to be very progressive, borne primarily by the highest income earners

taxfoundation.org

.


I'd think a nearly 40% tax rate is high enough even for the Rich. I really don't care if the Rich have to pay more, but I'm not going to fight or give a darn either because they already pay a lot.

What I do care about is Free Loaders,Leaches, Grifters and the Shiftless...the Bring nothing to society,America or their Fellow Human beings at all.

Now I do agree that Corporations should focus on building up their Companies and making profits for their shareholders to a larger degree as opposed to paying out bonus's and such to individual Elites. Which the tend not to do.

When you say "40% tax rate" are you referring to their marginal rate or their effective rate? The highest marginal tax rate is around 43% right now, but that hardly means that 43% of their income is taxed. In fact, I would argue that the rich in our country take advantage of far and away more deductions and loopholes (which are designed for them, by them, since they have the lobbying power that we do not have) than the rest of us are able to.

In our best and longest economic booms, top marginal tax rates topped out at around 91% while the rate of income inequality has been at its lowest. Every time our economy has had a major crash over the last 100 years, the top marginal rates have been significantly lower while the overall income inequality has been at its highest. This is not likely a coincidence.

 

[3Rfan]

It's the principle of the situation, the 1% according to the data from the Fed's shows how much the 1% pays....

Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2018 Update

The federal income tax data demonstrates that the U.S. individual income tax continues to be very progressive, borne primarily by the highest income earners

taxfoundation.org

.


I'd think a nearly 40% tax rate is high enough even for the Rich. I really don't care if the Rich have to pay more, but I'm not going to fight or give a darn either because they already pay a lot.

What I do care about is Free Loaders,Leaches, Grifters and the Shiftless...the Bring nothing to society,America or their Fellow Human beings at all.

Now I do agree that Corporations should focus on building up their Companies and making profits for their shareholders to a larger degree as opposed to paying out bonus's and such to individual Elites. Which the tend not to do.

NO ONE actually pays 40% of their income, not companies and not individuals. A lot of those at that tax rate usually pay less income tax than folks that pack a lunch everyday. You know guys like Donald J. Trump.

 

[MGHS]

NO ONE actually pays 40% of their income, not companies and not individuals. A lot of those at that tax rate usually pay less income tax than folks that pack a lunch everyday. You know guys like Donald J. Trump.

Hmmmmmm I guess that data from the gov. is in error. Fake info. from the feds.....

 

[MGHS]

When you say "40% tax rate" are you referring to their marginal rate or their effective rate? The highest marginal tax rate is around 43% right now, but that hardly means that 43% of their income is taxed. In fact, I would argue that the rich in our country take advantage of far and away more deductions and loopholes (which are designed for them, by them, since they have the lobbying power that we do not have) than the rest of us are able to.

In our best and longest economic booms, top marginal tax rates topped out at around 91% while the rate of income inequality has been at its lowest. Every time our economy has had a major crash over the last 100 years, the top marginal rates have been significantly lower while the overall income inequality has been at its highest. This is not likely a coincidence.

They do take care of themselves with Loop poles and such..but some do by 35-37%, although the do receive at times tax credits and other various shelters. But with that said the Rich Pay a huge portion of taxes. And there are more Rich now than in the past.

So weird the jealousy and hatred for those who actually contribute, jobs, technology, wealth and innovation to society and on the flip side so much love for the shiftless, Grifters and leaches who bring nothing to society and only steal and take and demand entitlement from other labors.

 

[bullitpdq68]

They do take care of themselves with Loop poles and such..but some do by 35-37%, although the do receive at times tax credits and other various shelters. But with that said the Rich Pay a huge portion of taxes. And there are more Rich now than in the past.

So weird the jealousy and hatred for those who actually contribute, jobs, technology, wealth and innovation to society and on the flip side so much love for the shiftless, Grifters and leaches who bring nothing to society and only steal and take and demand entitlement from other labors.

Again here is the little guy like you saying the Rich pay enough.....However the actual wealthy like Bill Gates, Warren Buffet say the opposite? Even some of those like Mark Zuckerberg... Why do the little guys like you fight for the super wealthy when the super wealthy don't care to pay more?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/teresa...-rich-want-to-pay-more-taxes/?sh=1ed9b5a16cf9

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/...argue-that-they-should-be-paying-higher-taxes

Zuckerberg Practically Begs Bernie to Smack Him With $5 Billion Tax

Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg practically begged Bernie Sanders to smack him with a wealth tax that would erase $5 billion from his net worth.

www.ccn.com

.

 

[r14veer]

They do take care of themselves with Loop poles and such..but some do by 35-37%, although the do receive at times tax credits and other various shelters. But with that said the Rich Pay a huge portion of taxes. And there are more Rich now than in the past.

So weird the jealousy and hatred for those who actually contribute, jobs, technology, wealth and innovation to society and on the flip side so much love for the shiftless, Grifters and leaches who bring nothing to society and only steal and take and demand entitlement from other labors.

The rich definitely pay more taxes. They also are the prime beneficiaries of tax law...by a lot per capita.

There may be more rich people now, but there are also significantly more people in general now. Put it this way: one could also say that there are far more poor people (and at a greater rate) now. This is one of those assertions that is effective on those who don't study statistics and rhetoric, in fact it's nearly meaningless.

So it seems like what you're saying is that people who are rich are not shiftless grifters and leeches who receive way more actual governmental benefit than the average person? I'm guessing you might say, "well, some are, but that is few and far between," but could one not also say the same thing about people on the other end of the spectrum, particularly per capita? The biggest swindles in history have certainly not had poor people running the show. Think about the Savings and Loan scandal of the 80s. That one scandal alone will end up costing not our children but our grandchildren at the very least. Then think about every other financial industry scam that has been busted, let alone the ones that haven't yet. Food stamp fraud is pretty pedestrian comparatively.

Also, don't think I didn't notice your shift from logical statistical discussion to using emotionally charged language, you rapscallion. Appeals to emotion are very effective and persuasive on many, but they are wasted on me.