Saw a charge and block called on the same play by two different officials last night. After some discussion they decided to call a double foul and go to the arrow. I've never seen this done before on this play. Has anyone else?
Officiating question. Charge/block.
- Thread starter oldroundballer
- Start date
NO, but the best call of the year.........2 officials called a jump ball in front of team bench. Coach jumps up complains....... Officials confer..... wait for it...........foul on the visiting team's player!
This is a double foul and may have been handled correctly depending on the other action.
If on a shot and it did not go in done correctly bc there is no team control on a shot. Therefore alternating possession would be used. If the shot did go in the the ball would be awarded to the defending team. If there was no shot the ball would be returned to the offensive team as they were in team control when the double foul occurred.
Let me guess the 2 officials got together and one pulled a coin out of their pocket and flipped to make a decision. I wont debate that the Block/Charge call is one of the hardest to make but I don't understand when an official makes the statement, "He wasn't set or he was under the basket." A charge is a PLAYER CONTROL foul it doesn't matter where the defender is.
Absolutely the most missed call in the game...player control...it's amazing how often it's called when the defender has no legal guarding position.
Interesting, I feel more are missed the other way. I feel the defense it penalized too often. After they have both feet on the floor facing their opponent they may move laterally or obliquely to maintain LGP yet it seems that unless they are set they don't get the call.
I feel traveling is the most missed and most difficult to enforce consistently.
When did it become allowable for a player to take 3-4 steps before assuming the triple threat position? I see this frequently when players catch a pass on the perimeter in a half court offense....
Officials have a tough job and most of us realize that. If they called everything high school games would last 2 hours +. One call that bothers me is when a player catches the ball then 1-2 steps into their shot…. And it really bothers me when they make it.
Apparently it must be a rule change that only officials know about because nearly every player does it today.
It went from the 1-2 step to the 1-2 step-step. Call it what you want. I call it a travel. To bad I'm the only one who does..... I'm glad to hear that other notice it though. As I stated earlier officiating is not an easy job. Its to bad there is such a shortage in the profession. It used to be that you did lower level jobs at middle schools then moved up to lower level high school games and girls (not easy to officiate), then moved to high school boys. Now more than ever I see guys doing high school boys games and are in over their head (to no fault of their own).
When you pick your dribble with both feet on the floor then hop and lad both feet on the floor again THEN jump up and shoot it absolutely should traveling. If you notice theyWILL call traveling if you pass it rather than shoot it. Why is it different to shoot or pass after the 'should be' travel.
Yes this is correct. I am assuming the ball
341A has it correct. Not sure of all the info based on how you described it but would venture to say it was on a shot as your describe it.
It was a shot attempt but they didn't shoot any FTs. Just to the arrow and ball out of bounds. They probably did handle it correctly by the rules. I was just saying that in 50 years I've never seen one official not defer to the other when both had it differently. Have you ever been involved in calling it both ways at the same time? Maybe it happens some just not at any games I go to or watch.
I would say back in my formative years the getting together and figuring out was the way it was handled. Now it is a bit more defined. Have only had it happen 2 times in 24 years and both occurred within 2 weeks of each other. First was in a college game. The second occurred in a HS game involving a family member of yours. My partner tried to use the old method of solving the dispute. Your brother in law had an assistant at the time that had a little background in officiating and was trying to offer help.
) I had to explain to all involved on how to administer. DG was the only one who really knew what the heck I was talking about..This situation is something officials pregame. Often the term blow and hold is used. When guys don't blow and hold on a double whistle blarges happen.
Lol. Can't imagine D offering help. Probably the one and only time.I would say back in my formative years the getting together and figuring out was the way it was handled. Now it is a bit more defined. Have only had it happen 2 times in 24 years and both occurred within 2 weeks of each other. First was in a college game. The second occurred in a HS game involving a family member of yours. My partner tried to use the old method of solving the dispute. Your brother in law had an assistant at the time that had a little background in officiating and was trying to offer help.
This situation is something officials pregame. Often the term blow and hold is used. When guys don't blow and hold on a double whistle blarges happen.
Crazy that I'd never seen this happen. And this one was a D1 game on TV. Announcers had no idea what happened and finally just dropped it moved on. Lol.
The most missed call may be anything that happens to the shooter in the last seconds of a game..."he hit him with a folding chair as he was shooting...good no call, let the players determine the outcome."
Good one. Thus why most coaches don't even bother with trying to go inside anymore and just settle for a fade away 3 from 30 feet.
Talking to a ref the other night and ask him about a charge called in a girl's district semi-final game (which was a huge call in the first quarter) and his response was that they player had perfect position, but flopped before the contact was fully administered. I guess you have to stand in there and take the full blow on a charge these days... LOL... There is a reason why they put the slide rule in at home-plate now days.
I'm pretty sure the player that flopped had two fouls already and then kicked the ball after getting called for a block, which resulted in a technical foul. The block/charge is the hardest call to make. Officials have less than a few seconds to replay what happened and make a slip second decision.
In regards to the play you're talking about. The player was in position; however, a player can't start falling to the ground before contact is made and expect to get a charge called on the opponent. In my opinion, the rule of verticality applies and the player should maintain a vertical position until contact is made. If I remember correctly, the technical foul cost them 4 points. The opponent made 2 free throws and scored on the ensuing possession.
Players should take the full blow or get out of the way. That would make it easier to call for the officials. Coaches should petition MSHSAA to adopt the semi-circle under the basket, which would also help.
In regards to the play you're talking about. The player was in position; however, a player can't start falling to the ground before contact is made and expect to get a charge called on the opponent. In my opinion, the rule of verticality applies and the player should maintain a vertical position until contact is made. If I remember correctly, the technical foul cost them 4 points. The opponent made 2 free throws and scored on the ensuing possession.
Players should take the full blow or get out of the way. That would make it easier to call for the officials. Coaches should petition MSHSAA to adopt the semi-circle under the basket, which would also help.
That would lead to several concussions as well! My point is we have always been taught to fall with the contact. If a player has position, I do not see a flop being called. Besides, when has a "FLOP" been brought into the hs game.....
A player should wait until contact is made and not fall to the ground beforehand. Falling to the ground before contact is made is a flop.
There is an art to drawing a charge. Some are much better at it than others.
My favorite is the "pass and crash". A smart defensive player can draw that foul occasionally, IF the officials are paying attention. Too many defenders give up on the passer and move towards the ball. But the passer is usually ripe for drawing the crash on, especially at the end of a fast break.
I guess technically, it's not a flop. A flop is more of an acting job with little or no contact. I guess I should've described it as the defensive player not maintaining a legal guarding position when contact is made.
My original point on the block/charge call was this. A charge should be call but very rarely is if the offensive player is out of control regardless if said defender is in “the legal” guarding position. Too many times charges are not called during the first few minutes of a game when they should be and that allows kids to drive to the basket out of control the rest of the game because: 1) Not many kids are going to take a hit more than a few times when it’s not called. 2) The offensive person has no fear when going to the basket.
Agreed it’s a hard call to make but missing it a few times especially early can have a major effect on the outcome of a game.
That is my favorite... Took several of those in the day. I even lost a district championship game on a pass and crash charge call at the end of the game. Hats off to the kid who took the charge. Even took them at half court in the press. Point is like everyone says, charge or block is the hardest thing to call. I think the call goes toward the momentum of the game in a lot of cases.
On a different call in a game I saw recently a couple players got tangled up on a drive to the basket and the ball went out of bounds. The official on the baseline blew his whistle then looked to the other officials for help. None came and he gave the ball back to the offense. I thought since he asked for help, he obviously didn't KNOW which way to call it and the other officials didn't see it either it should have been a jump ball. What say you?
I agree. It's a travel and I call it. The Robles is u have to make sure the player had possession of the ball b4 they hop. A lot of times they take those steps or hop as they are catching.
To be considered a foul, a player's balance, speed, quickness, or rthymn need to be disrupted. If u flop...none of that is disrupted because there wasn't contact. If a player flops a tech foul could be called according to the rule book.
I would disagree....there a "gray" areas on the floor. Meaning areas where two officials could be looking. A blarge is pre gamed....but a block/charge is an emotional call. It's one u may need to hit fast and sell. We pre game to blow the whistle and hold your call. Whose ever area it is we yeild to that primary area. But it happens....even to the best!!
"We pre game to blow the whistle and hold your call."
And here is the golden standard. Stay in your area and hold your call if there is a double whistle. I would argue that is does not happen to the best...because, if the standard is to blow your whistle and hold your call...two people have to break that standard to have a blarge or whatever you want to call it. That does not happen to the best.
And here is the golden standard. Stay in your area and hold your call if there is a double whistle. I would argue that is does not happen to the best...because, if the standard is to blow your whistle and hold your call...two people have to break that standard to have a blarge or whatever you want to call it. That does not happen to the best.
It has happened in NCAA d 1 and the NBA therefore it happens to the best. Maybe not the perfect but the best.
