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My feelings exactly.

SadButTrue

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2001
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Thank you Ron Howard for articulating for me what being a liberal is really about.

Ron Howard
January 24 at 7:41 AM

I'm a liberal, but that doesn't mean what a lot of you apparently think it does. Let's break it down, shall we? Because quite frankly, I'm getting a little tired of being told what I believe and what I stand for. Spoiler alert: not every liberal is the same, though the majority of liberals I know think along roughly these same lines:

1. I believe a country should take care of its weakest members. A country cannot call itself civilized when its children, disabled, sick, and elderly are neglected. PERIOD.

2. I believe healthcare is a right, not a privilege. Somehow that's interpreted as "I believe Obamacare is the end-all, be-all." This is not the case. I'm fully aware that the ACA has problems, that a national healthcare system would require everyone to chip in, and that it's impossible to create one that is devoid of flaws, but I have yet to hear an argument against it that makes "let people die because they can't afford healthcare" a better alternative. I believe healthcare should be far cheaper than it is, and that everyone should have access to it. And no, I'm not opposed to paying higher taxes in the name of making that happen.

3. I believe education should be affordable. It doesn't necessarily have to be free (though it works in other countries so I'm mystified as to why it can't work in the US), but at the end of the day, there is no excuse for students graduating college saddled with five- or six-figure debt.

4. I don't believe your money should be taken from you and given to people who don't want to work. I have literally never encountered anyone who believes this. Ever. I just have a massive moral problem with a society where a handful of people can possess the majority of the wealth while there are people literally starving to death, freezing to death, or dying because they can't afford to go to the doctor. Fair wages, lower housing costs, universal healthcare, affordable education, and the wealthy actually paying their share would go a long way toward alleviating this. Somehow believing that makes me a communist.

5. I don't throw around "I'm willing to pay higher taxes" lightly. If I'm suggesting something that involves paying more, well, it's because I'm fine with paying my share as long as it's actually going to something besides lining corporate pockets or bombing other countries while Americans die without healthcare.

6. I believe companies should be required to pay their employees a decent, livable wage. Somehow this is always interpreted as me wanting burger flippers to be able to afford a penthouse apartment and a Mercedes. What it actually means is that no one should have to work three full-time jobs just to keep their head above water. Restaurant servers should not have to rely on tips, multibillion-dollar companies should not have employees on food stamps, workers shouldn't have to work themselves into the ground just to barely make ends meet, and minimum wage should be enough for someone to work 40 hours and live.

7. I am not anti-Christian. I have no desire to stop Christians from being Christians, to close churches, to ban the Bible, to forbid prayer in school, etc. (BTW, prayer in school is NOT illegal; *compulsory* prayer in school is - and should be - illegal). All I ask is that Christians recognize *my* right to live according to *my* beliefs. When I get pissed off that a politician is trying to legislate Scripture into law, I'm not "offended by Christianity" -- I'm offended that you're trying to force me to live by your religion's rules. You know how you get really upset at the thought of Muslims imposing Sharia law on you? That's how I feel about Christians trying to impose biblical law on me. Be a Christian. Do your thing. Just don't force it on me or mine.

8. I don't believe LGBT people should have more rights than you. I just believe they should have the *same* rights as you.

9. I don't believe illegal immigrants should come to America and have the world at their feet, especially since THIS ISN'T WHAT THEY DO (spoiler: undocumented immigrants are ineligible for all those programs they're supposed to be abusing, and if they're "stealing" your job it's because your employer is hiring illegally). I believe there are far more humane ways to handle undocumented immigration than our current practices (i.e., detaining children, splitting up families, ending DACA, etc).

10. I don't believe the government should regulate everything, but since greed is such a driving force in our country, we NEED regulations to prevent cut corners, environmental destruction, tainted food/water, unsafe materials in consumable goods or medical equipment, etc. It's not that I want the government's hands in everything -- I just don't trust people trying to make money to ensure that their products/practices/etc. are actually SAFE. Is the government devoid of shadiness? Of course not. But with those regulations in place, consumers have recourse if they're harmed and companies are liable for medical bills, environmental cleanup, etc. Just kind of seems like common sense when the alternative to government regulation is letting companies bring their bottom line into the equation.

11. I believe our current administration is fascist. Not because I dislike them or because I can’t get over an election, but because I've spent too many years reading and learning about the Third Reich to miss the similarities. Not because any administration I dislike must be Nazis, but because things are actually mirroring authoritarian and fascist regimes of the past.

12. I believe the systemic racism and misogyny in our society is much worse than many people think, and desperately needs to be addressed. Which means those with privilege -- white, straight, male, economic, etc. -- need to start listening, even if you don't like what you're hearing, so we can start dismantling everything that's causing people to be marginalized.

13. I am not interested in coming after your blessed guns, nor is anyone serving in government. What I am interested in is the enforcement of present laws and enacting new, common sense gun regulations. Got another opinion? Put it on your page, not mine.

14. I believe in so-called political correctness. I prefer to think it’s social politeness. If I call you Chuck and you say you prefer to be called Charles I’ll call you Charles. It’s the polite thing to do. Not because everyone is a delicate snowflake, but because as Maya Angelou put it, when we know better, we do better. When someone tells you that a term or phrase is more accurate/less hurtful than the one you're using, you now know better. So why not do better? How does it hurt you to NOT hurt another person?

15. I believe in funding sustainable energy, including offering education to people currently working in coal or oil so they can change jobs. There are too many sustainable options available for us to continue with coal and oil. Sorry, billionaires. Maybe try investing in something else.

16. I believe that women should not be treated as a separate class of human. They should be paid the same as men who do the same work, should have the same rights as men and should be free from abuse. Why on earth shouldn’t they be?

I think that about covers it. Bottom line is that I'm a liberal because I think we should take care of each other. That doesn't mean you should work 80 hours a week so your lazy neighbor can get all your money. It just means I don't believe there is any scenario in which preventable suffering is an acceptable outcome as long as money is saved.
 
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Thank you Ron Howard for articulating for me what being a liberal is really about.

Ron Howard
January 24 at 7:41 AM

I'm a liberal, but that doesn't mean what a lot of you apparently think it does. Let's break it down, shall we? Because quite frankly, I'm getting a little tired of being told what I believe and what I stand for. Spoiler alert: not every liberal is the same, though the majority of liberals I know think along roughly these same lines:

1. I believe a country should take care of its weakest members. A country cannot call itself civilized when its children, disabled, sick, and elderly are neglected. PERIOD.

2. I believe healthcare is a right, not a privilege. Somehow that's interpreted as "I believe Obamacare is the end-all, be-all." This is not the case. I'm fully aware that the ACA has problems, that a national healthcare system would require everyone to chip in, and that it's impossible to create one that is devoid of flaws, but I have yet to hear an argument against it that makes "let people die because they can't afford healthcare" a better alternative. I believe healthcare should be far cheaper than it is, and that everyone should have access to it. And no, I'm not opposed to paying higher taxes in the name of making that happen.

3. I believe education should be affordable. It doesn't necessarily have to be free (though it works in other countries so I'm mystified as to why it can't work in the US), but at the end of the day, there is no excuse for students graduating college saddled with five- or six-figure debt.

4. I don't believe your money should be taken from you and given to people who don't want to work. I have literally never encountered anyone who believes this. Ever. I just have a massive moral problem with a society where a handful of people can possess the majority of the wealth while there are people literally starving to death, freezing to death, or dying because they can't afford to go to the doctor. Fair wages, lower housing costs, universal healthcare, affordable education, and the wealthy actually paying their share would go a long way toward alleviating this. Somehow believing that makes me a communist.

5. I don't throw around "I'm willing to pay higher taxes" lightly. If I'm suggesting something that involves paying more, well, it's because I'm fine with paying my share as long as it's actually going to something besides lining corporate pockets or bombing other countries while Americans die without healthcare.

6. I believe companies should be required to pay their employees a decent, livable wage. Somehow this is always interpreted as me wanting burger flippers to be able to afford a penthouse apartment and a Mercedes. What it actually means is that no one should have to work three full-time jobs just to keep their head above water. Restaurant servers should not have to rely on tips, multibillion-dollar companies should not have employees on food stamps, workers shouldn't have to work themselves into the ground just to barely make ends meet, and minimum wage should be enough for someone to work 40 hours and live.

7. I am not anti-Christian. I have no desire to stop Christians from being Christians, to close churches, to ban the Bible, to forbid prayer in school, etc. (BTW, prayer in school is NOT illegal; *compulsory* prayer in school is - and should be - illegal). All I ask is that Christians recognize *my* right to live according to *my* beliefs. When I get pissed off that a politician is trying to legislate Scripture into law, I'm not "offended by Christianity" -- I'm offended that you're trying to force me to live by your religion's rules. You know how you get really upset at the thought of Muslims imposing Sharia law on you? That's how I feel about Christians trying to impose biblical law on me. Be a Christian. Do your thing. Just don't force it on me or mine.

8. I don't believe LGBT people should have more rights than you. I just believe they should have the *same* rights as you.

9. I don't believe illegal immigrants should come to America and have the world at their feet, especially since THIS ISN'T WHAT THEY DO (spoiler: undocumented immigrants are ineligible for all those programs they're supposed to be abusing, and if they're "stealing" your job it's because your employer is hiring illegally). I believe there are far more humane ways to handle undocumented immigration than our current practices (i.e., detaining children, splitting up families, ending DACA, etc).

10. I don't believe the government should regulate everything, but since greed is such a driving force in our country, we NEED regulations to prevent cut corners, environmental destruction, tainted food/water, unsafe materials in consumable goods or medical equipment, etc. It's not that I want the government's hands in everything -- I just don't trust people trying to make money to ensure that their products/practices/etc. are actually SAFE. Is the government devoid of shadiness? Of course not. But with those regulations in place, consumers have recourse if they're harmed and companies are liable for medical bills, environmental cleanup, etc. Just kind of seems like common sense when the alternative to government regulation is letting companies bring their bottom line into the equation.

11. I believe our current administration is fascist. Not because I dislike them or because I can’t get over an election, but because I've spent too many years reading and learning about the Third Reich to miss the similarities. Not because any administration I dislike must be Nazis, but because things are actually mirroring authoritarian and fascist regimes of the past.

12. I believe the systemic racism and misogyny in our society is much worse than many people think, and desperately needs to be addressed. Which means those with privilege -- white, straight, male, economic, etc. -- need to start listening, even if you don't like what you're hearing, so we can start dismantling everything that's causing people to be marginalized.

13. I am not interested in coming after your blessed guns, nor is anyone serving in government. What I am interested in is the enforcement of present laws and enacting new, common sense gun regulations. Got another opinion? Put it on your page, not mine.

14. I believe in so-called political correctness. I prefer to think it’s social politeness. If I call you Chuck and you say you prefer to be called Charles I’ll call you Charles. It’s the polite thing to do. Not because everyone is a delicate snowflake, but because as Maya Angelou put it, when we know better, we do better. When someone tells you that a term or phrase is more accurate/less hurtful than the one you're using, you now know better. So why not do better? How does it hurt you to NOT hurt another person?

15. I believe in funding sustainable energy, including offering education to people currently working in coal or oil so they can change jobs. There are too many sustainable options available for us to continue with coal and oil. Sorry, billionaires. Maybe try investing in something else.

16. I believe that women should not be treated as a separate class of human. They should be paid the same as men who do the same work, should have the same rights as men and should be free from abuse. Why on earth shouldn’t they be?

I think that about covers it. Bottom line is that I'm a liberal because I think we should take care of each other. That doesn't mean you should work 80 hours a week so your lazy neighbor can get all your money. It just means I don't believe there is any scenario in which preventable suffering is an acceptable outcome as long as money is saved.
After #1 his thoughts devolves into a rant. It is not intelligent.
I knew when the heading said, "My feelings", this was going to be a challenge to get through, but I read it anyway at my own peril.
Since I guess you feel this way. I won't pick it apart. It's easier to dispense with by saying I disagree.
I like some of his movies. I have a list of my favorite Ron Howard flicks.
 
Thank you Ron Howard for articulating for me what being a liberal is really about.

Ron Howard
January 24 at 7:41 AM

I'm a liberal, but that doesn't mean what a lot of you apparently think it does. Let's break it down, shall we? Because quite frankly, I'm getting a little tired of being told what I believe and what I stand for. Spoiler alert: not every liberal is the same, though the majority of liberals I know think along roughly these same lines:

1. I believe a country should take care of its weakest members. A country cannot call itself civilized when its children, disabled, sick, and elderly are neglected. PERIOD.

2. I believe healthcare is a right, not a privilege. Somehow that's interpreted as "I believe Obamacare is the end-all, be-all." This is not the case. I'm fully aware that the ACA has problems, that a national healthcare system would require everyone to chip in, and that it's impossible to create one that is devoid of flaws, but I have yet to hear an argument against it that makes "let people die because they can't afford healthcare" a better alternative. I believe healthcare should be far cheaper than it is, and that everyone should have access to it. And no, I'm not opposed to paying higher taxes in the name of making that happen.

3. I believe education should be affordable. It doesn't necessarily have to be free (though it works in other countries so I'm mystified as to why it can't work in the US), but at the end of the day, there is no excuse for students graduating college saddled with five- or six-figure debt.

4. I don't believe your money should be taken from you and given to people who don't want to work. I have literally never encountered anyone who believes this. Ever. I just have a massive moral problem with a society where a handful of people can possess the majority of the wealth while there are people literally starving to death, freezing to death, or dying because they can't afford to go to the doctor. Fair wages, lower housing costs, universal healthcare, affordable education, and the wealthy actually paying their share would go a long way toward alleviating this. Somehow believing that makes me a communist.

5. I don't throw around "I'm willing to pay higher taxes" lightly. If I'm suggesting something that involves paying more, well, it's because I'm fine with paying my share as long as it's actually going to something besides lining corporate pockets or bombing other countries while Americans die without healthcare.

6. I believe companies should be required to pay their employees a decent, livable wage. Somehow this is always interpreted as me wanting burger flippers to be able to afford a penthouse apartment and a Mercedes. What it actually means is that no one should have to work three full-time jobs just to keep their head above water. Restaurant servers should not have to rely on tips, multibillion-dollar companies should not have employees on food stamps, workers shouldn't have to work themselves into the ground just to barely make ends meet, and minimum wage should be enough for someone to work 40 hours and live.

7. I am not anti-Christian. I have no desire to stop Christians from being Christians, to close churches, to ban the Bible, to forbid prayer in school, etc. (BTW, prayer in school is NOT illegal; *compulsory* prayer in school is - and should be - illegal). All I ask is that Christians recognize *my* right to live according to *my* beliefs. When I get pissed off that a politician is trying to legislate Scripture into law, I'm not "offended by Christianity" -- I'm offended that you're trying to force me to live by your religion's rules. You know how you get really upset at the thought of Muslims imposing Sharia law on you? That's how I feel about Christians trying to impose biblical law on me. Be a Christian. Do your thing. Just don't force it on me or mine.

8. I don't believe LGBT people should have more rights than you. I just believe they should have the *same* rights as you.

9. I don't believe illegal immigrants should come to America and have the world at their feet, especially since THIS ISN'T WHAT THEY DO (spoiler: undocumented immigrants are ineligible for all those programs they're supposed to be abusing, and if they're "stealing" your job it's because your employer is hiring illegally). I believe there are far more humane ways to handle undocumented immigration than our current practices (i.e., detaining children, splitting up families, ending DACA, etc).

10. I don't believe the government should regulate everything, but since greed is such a driving force in our country, we NEED regulations to prevent cut corners, environmental destruction, tainted food/water, unsafe materials in consumable goods or medical equipment, etc. It's not that I want the government's hands in everything -- I just don't trust people trying to make money to ensure that their products/practices/etc. are actually SAFE. Is the government devoid of shadiness? Of course not. But with those regulations in place, consumers have recourse if they're harmed and companies are liable for medical bills, environmental cleanup, etc. Just kind of seems like common sense when the alternative to government regulation is letting companies bring their bottom line into the equation.

11. I believe our current administration is fascist. Not because I dislike them or because I can’t get over an election, but because I've spent too many years reading and learning about the Third Reich to miss the similarities. Not because any administration I dislike must be Nazis, but because things are actually mirroring authoritarian and fascist regimes of the past.

12. I believe the systemic racism and misogyny in our society is much worse than many people think, and desperately needs to be addressed. Which means those with privilege -- white, straight, male, economic, etc. -- need to start listening, even if you don't like what you're hearing, so we can start dismantling everything that's causing people to be marginalized.

13. I am not interested in coming after your blessed guns, nor is anyone serving in government. What I am interested in is the enforcement of present laws and enacting new, common sense gun regulations. Got another opinion? Put it on your page, not mine.

14. I believe in so-called political correctness. I prefer to think it’s social politeness. If I call you Chuck and you say you prefer to be called Charles I’ll call you Charles. It’s the polite thing to do. Not because everyone is a delicate snowflake, but because as Maya Angelou put it, when we know better, we do better. When someone tells you that a term or phrase is more accurate/less hurtful than the one you're using, you now know better. So why not do better? How does it hurt you to NOT hurt another person?

15. I believe in funding sustainable energy, including offering education to people currently working in coal or oil so they can change jobs. There are too many sustainable options available for us to continue with coal and oil. Sorry, billionaires. Maybe try investing in something else.

16. I believe that women should not be treated as a separate class of human. They should be paid the same as men who do the same work, should have the same rights as men and should be free from abuse. Why on earth shouldn’t they be?

I think that about covers it. Bottom line is that I'm a liberal because I think we should take care of each other. That doesn't mean you should work 80 hours a week so your lazy neighbor can get all your money. It just means I don't believe there is any scenario in which preventable suffering is an acceptable outcome as long as money is saved.
Truth: His blue state is a mess. He's an SC guy. Blue states have the most wealth. No solutions. No responsibility. Needs more money.
 
After #1 his thoughts devolves into a rant. It is not intelligent.
I knew when the heading said, "My feelings", this was going to be a challenge to get through, but I read it anyway at my own peril.
Since I guess you feel this way. I won't pick it apart. It's easier to dispense with by saying I disagree.
I like some of his movies. I have a list of my favorite Ron Howard flicks.
Not intelligent? You may not like what he’s saying, but “not intelligent” doesn’t match his writing at all.
 
Not intelligent? You may not like what he’s saying, but “not intelligent” doesn’t match his writing at all.
I agree with Draft.
It's a thoughtless opinion stated as absolutes. It's mostly a rant. I would expect a man that has accomplished as much he has to not assume we haven't heard feelings like this before. He has some great movies.
 
I agree with Draft.
It's a thoughtless opinion stated as absolutes. It's mostly a rant. I would expect a man that has accomplished as much he has to not assume we haven't heard feelings like this before. He has some great movies.
Critical thinking, problem solving and lack of awareness. He should go outside his home and look around for clues to the failed state crumbling before his eyes.
It's not so much what he says, it's what he doesn't think about. His opinion is a repeat of common obligatory leftism. His greed and power hypothesis is just stupid. He's a ungrateful little sniveling whiner.
 
Truth hurts
On the other hand wouldn't it be great if moderation such as this was little more moderate in the Democratic party right now?
We are suppose to entrust the health industry to a bunch of government bureaucrats?
People like Howard are good at telling a story about the evils of capitalism, greed, racism but we've all been to the DMV. 99% of these government people are not elected! In order to do what Democrats want we have to entrust ourselves to the skill and competency of bureaucrats to carry out massive responsibilities.
This is the part of the case that Socialist never address. They give a heroing tale of injustice, but they leave out practical application.
I just don't get it.
 
On the other hand wouldn't it be great if moderation such as this was little more moderate in the Democratic party right now?
We are suppose to entrust the health industry to a bunch of government bureaucrats?
People like Howard are good at telling a story about the evils of capitalism, greed, racism but we've all been to the DMV. 99% of these government people are not elected! In order to do what Democrats want we have to entrust ourselves to the skill and competency of bureaucrats to carry out massive responsibilities.
This is the part of the case that Socialist never address. They give a heroing tale of injustice, but they leave out practical application.
I just don't get it.
On the other hand wouldn't it be great if moderation such as this was little more moderate in the Democratic party right now?
We are suppose to entrust the health industry to a bunch of government bureaucrats?
People like Howard are good at telling a story about the evils of capitalism, greed, racism but we've all been to the DMV. 99% of these government people are not elected! In order to do what Democrats want we have to entrust ourselves to the skill and competency of bureaucrats to carry out massive responsibilities.
This is the part of the case that Socialist never address. They give a heroing tale of injustice, but they leave out practical application.
I just don't get it.
I don’t consider myself a liberal, but I do consider myself a Democrat. I don’t agree with everyone needing to have government -run healthcare insurance. Competition is good. If you already have a plan you like; keep it, is how I feel. Not all of us are “radical.”
One the other hand - for those who have blindly followed DJT, how can they call themselves Republicans? He stands for very little that the traditional Republican has stood for for years (tariffs and adding to national debt at an alarming rate to name a couple). So do we have a true Republican Party anymore or has this new party (the party of DJT) just stolen its name?
 
I don’t consider myself a liberal, but I do consider myself a Democrat. I don’t agree with everyone needing to have government -run healthcare insurance. Competition is good. If you already have a plan you like; keep it, is how I feel. Not all of us are “radical.”
One the other hand - for those who have blindly followed DJT, how can they call themselves Republicans? He stands for very little that the traditional Republican has stood for for years (tariffs and adding to national debt at an alarming rate to name a couple). So do we have a true Republican Party anymore or has this new party (the party of DJT) just stolen its name?
^^THIS^^
 
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I don’t consider myself a liberal, but I do consider myself a Democrat. I don’t agree with everyone needing to have government -run healthcare insurance. Competition is good. If you already have a plan you like; keep it, is how I feel. Not all of us are “radical.”
One the other hand - for those who have blindly followed DJT, how can they call themselves Republicans? He stands for very little that the traditional Republican has stood for for years (tariffs and adding to national debt at an alarming rate to name a couple). So do we have a true Republican Party anymore or has this new party (the party of DJT) just stolen its name?

I have problems both with Tariffs and with a lot of the spending so I consider both of those fair criticisms of Trump. That said, compared to Bernie’s plan Trump looks like a miser. I don’t think Trump can do wrong but I’m good with about 75% of what he is doing and is actually doing what he said he would do.
 
I don’t consider myself a liberal, but I do consider myself a Democrat. I don’t agree with everyone needing to have government -run healthcare insurance. Competition is good. If you already have a plan you like; keep it, is how I feel. Not all of us are “radical.”
One the other hand - for those who have blindly followed DJT, how can they call themselves Republicans? He stands for very little that the traditional Republican has stood for for years (tariffs and adding to national debt at an alarming rate to name a couple). So do we have a true Republican Party anymore or has this new party (the party of DJT) just stolen its name?
So...DJT would make a good Democrat too? I've often wondered if it had worked out this way.
 
Let's start with building a beautiful wall AND MEXICO PAYING FOR IT.
I never actually thought he'd get Mexico to pay for the wall. But I did and do like the idea of a wall.

If you can honestly sit there and say you are okay with undocumented immigrants coming into the US, then you have more things to worry about then what Trump tweets or whether or not he shakes Pelosi's hand.
 
I would have become a repub.
We should be suspicious of politicians. In the same way we are suspicious of greedy corporations. If Trump is Hitler, we should be on guard.
The media intentionally is doing a malpractice in favor of a man that shares the same ideology with the most blood soaked regimes in the 20th Century. And none of them, fox included are calling Bernie out on this.
The Socialist in general never make the case why we should trust them. Evidently the 20th Century is too far gone for us to be reminded of Pol Pot, Mao and the Soviet style governments. I've heard of Hitler already! So I have no choice but to assume the cluster in Iowa is an ominous alarm. In the same way you fear DJT, I fear the class warfare that's been set up to even consider a man like Bernie to run for President. He wants to run healthcare using the dream of Marxism. He's scary.
 
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I don’t consider myself a liberal, but I do consider myself a Democrat. I don’t agree with everyone needing to have government -run healthcare insurance. Competition is good. If you already have a plan you like; keep it, is how I feel. Not all of us are “radical.”
One the other hand - for those who have blindly followed DJT, how can they call themselves Republicans? He stands for very little that the traditional Republican has stood for for years (tariffs and adding to national debt at an alarming rate to name a couple). So do we have a true Republican Party anymore or has this new party (the party of DJT) just stolen its name?

I don't consider myself either a Dem or Pub, both parties at times have ideas I believe in and like. But honestly both parties have left me behind.
The last election I Voted independent, I couldn't bring myself to vote for either candidate, I liked some of the things Trump had to say but honestly some of the things that come out of his mouth made me cringe. He reminds me of some unfiltered old guy that you might run into at the local coffee shop. And yes I had already been down the Clinton path, yep the factory I was working in is pretty much all in Mexico. Thanks to Nafta and the Clinton's.

However all that being said so far if the election was to be held today I will probable hold my nose and vote Trump. That is not because I blindly follow him as some would love to accuse me or anybody who votes for him loves to say. And it is not because he up holds traditional Republican values, it is because he more or less upholds the older Democrats values mixed in with Republican. Yes his record is mixed, but if I was to ask myself, if I or my family or this country is better off today than when he took over I would have to say yes. But that is not saying I agree with all things he has done. At this point I just don't like what the other side saying.

I liked some of the tax cuts, but I also believe we need to pay our bills before that, but not sure I will ever see that in my life time under either party. I would like to see us work towards a more balanced budget approach. Trump and the Pubs are horrible about this, but the Dems... I am not sure would be much better, they might raise taxes on the rich, but would also create programs and larger government that would suck that money away.

The things I like about him is he does seem to be trying to help the working class, the blue collar, that seems to be lost on the Dems who use to the party of the working class. they don't want hand outs, they want jobs, they don't want government programs they want jobs. This seems to be lost on the Dems. Right now in the last 3 years average yearly wages are up over $5,000 a year compared to about $800 for the previous 16 years which includes both a Pub and dem president...

The environment. Dems talk about what is better for the environment, but then let companies like Apple open huge factories in other companies who don't give a rats ass about the environment in those countries. Those companies pollute and destroy other countries like a garbage waste land. If the Dems truly cared about the environment most of them would love to see those companies bring those factories back over here were our country would be able to be the watch dog and we have higher standards, Show me you have a plan for that and I might be willing to listen. Because yes I do care about the environment but you need to show me you care about the globe and not just in our back yard.

Immigration, I don't have anything negative to say about legal immigration, I would not be apposed to a pathway to citizenship for the "current" illegal immigrants living in our Country now. However they need to show that they are capable supporting themselves and truly want to stay here. But with that I want the government to strengthen our borders. We did this once under Reagan and now we have 10-13 million more illegals here again. We need to first strengthen our boarders and decide what we will do going forward with illegals who cross after we give the current illegal's amnesty. I don't care how many Dems shout you are racist because I don't want open borders. It was not to long ago that the Pubs wanted open borders and the Dems were saying no we need to crack down on illegal immigration, I don't remember to many Pubs calling Dems racist back then?
 
I don't consider myself either a Dem or Pub, both parties at times have ideas I believe in and like. But honestly both parties have left me behind.
The last election I Voted independent, I couldn't bring myself to vote for either candidate, I liked some of the things Trump had to say but honestly some of the things that come out of his mouth made me cringe. He reminds me of some unfiltered old guy that you might run into at the local coffee shop. And yes I had already been down the Clinton path, yep the factory I was working in is pretty much all in Mexico. Thanks to Nafta and the Clinton's.

However all that being said so far if the election was to be held today I will probable hold my nose and vote Trump. That is not because I blindly follow him as some would love to accuse me or anybody who votes for him loves to say. And it is not because he up holds traditional Republican values, it is because he more or less upholds the older Democrats values mixed in with Republican. Yes his record is mixed, but if I was to ask myself, if I or my family or this country is better off today than when he took over I would have to say yes. But that is not saying I agree with all things he has done. At this point I just don't like what the other side saying.

I liked some of the tax cuts, but I also believe we need to pay our bills before that, but not sure I will ever see that in my life time under either party. I would like to see us work towards a more balanced budget approach. Trump and the Pubs are horrible about this, but the Dems... I am not sure would be much better, they might raise taxes on the rich, but would also create programs and larger government that would suck that money away.

The things I like about him is he does seem to be trying to help the working class, the blue collar, that seems to be lost on the Dems who use to the party of the working class. they don't want hand outs, they want jobs, they don't want government programs they want jobs. This seems to be lost on the Dems. Right now in the last 3 years average yearly wages are up over $5,000 a year compared to about $800 for the previous 16 years which includes both a Pub and dem president...

The environment. Dems talk about what is better for the environment, but then let companies like Apple open huge factories in other companies who don't give a rats ass about the environment in those countries. Those companies pollute and destroy other countries like a garbage waste land. If the Dems truly cared about the environment most of them would love to see those companies bring those factories back over here were our country would be able to be the watch dog and we have higher standards, Show me you have a plan for that and I might be willing to listen. Because yes I do care about the environment but you need to show me you care about the globe and not just in our back yard.

Immigration, I don't have anything negative to say about legal immigration, I would not be apposed to a pathway to citizenship for the "current" illegal immigrants living in our Country now. However they need to show that they are capable supporting themselves and truly want to stay here. But with that I want the government to strengthen our borders. We did this once under Reagan and now we have 10-13 million more illegals here again. We need to first strengthen our boarders and decide what we will do going forward with illegals who cross after we give the current illegal's amnesty. I don't care how many Dems shout you are racist because I don't want open borders. It was not to long ago that the Pubs wanted open borders and the Dems were saying no we need to crack down on illegal immigration, I don't remember to many Pubs calling Dems racist back then?
To your last sentence: Did Dems call those immigrants thieves, drug dealers and rapists back then? That could explain the difference.
 
To your last sentence: Did Dems call those immigrants thieves, drug dealers and rapists back then? That could explain the difference.

No, the left wants to control the language.

I'll explain. Look at the apprehension of statistics of criminal illegal aliens.

The Dems call want us to call all of the illegal immigrants dreamers. Let's all be stupidly naive and believe people are not out to do anything illegal.

The President calls some of them rapists, child traffickers, drug smugglers and thieves.

I prefer calling a man a man unless a man asks me to call him his pronoun.

The Dems want to make laws to compel me to say what they agree with, and if I don't they'll have me arrested, fired, smeared, shamed and canceled.
 
No, the left wants to control the language.

I'll explain. Look at the apprehension of statistics of criminal illegal aliens.

The Dems call want us to call all of the illegal immigrants dreamers. Let's all be stupidly naive and believe people are not out to do anything illegal.

The President calls some of them rapists, child traffickers, drug smugglers and thieves.

I prefer calling a man a man unless a man asks me to call him his pronoun.

The Dems want to make laws to compel me to say what they agree with, and if I don't they'll have me arrested, fired, smeared, shamed and canceled.

Stop using one word to group everyone into that one group. Like if you're a dem then everyone is exactly the same. It's like saying if trump lies (which he does as you well know) then every repub is a liar which we know they aren't.
 
Stop using one word to group everyone into that one group. Like if you're a dem then everyone is exactly the same. It's like saying if trump lies (which he does as you well know) then every repub is a liar which we know they aren't.
That's fair! Since you rarely give an opinion, please consider this a disclosure agreement, that I can't read minds. But it's good to know.
 
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Stop using one word to group everyone into that one group. Like if you're a dem then everyone is exactly the same. It's like saying if trump lies (which he does as you well know) then every repub is a liar which we know they aren't.
That's fair! Since you rarely give an opinion, please consider this a disclosure agreement, that I can't read minds. But it's good to know.
Dude, that's your racism showing. Could you really understand your white privilege without having a Democrat politician constantly explaining it to you?
 
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No, the left wants to control the language.

I'll explain. Look at the apprehension of statistics of criminal illegal aliens.

The Dems call want us to call all of the illegal immigrants dreamers. Let's all be stupidly naive and believe people are not out to do anything illegal.

The President calls some of them rapists, child traffickers, drug smugglers and thieves.

I prefer calling a man a man unless a man asks me to call him his pronoun.

The Dems want to make laws to compel me to say what they agree with, and if I don't they'll have me arrested, fired, smeared, shamed and canceled.
WRONG, they call kids that were brought here by their parents when they had no say in the matter and have lived here most of their life and know very little if anything about the country they came from. They do NOT call all illegals 'dreamers'!
 
WRONG, they call kids that were brought here by their parents when they had no say in the matter and have lived here most of their life and know very little if anything about the country they came from. They do NOT call all illegals 'dreamers'!
Why call them dreamers then? Don't answer, I know.
 
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I had to go back and reread my post, and I don't see anyplace were I said that either but then you personally attack me again!
Simple question. I didn’t mean to attack you. I went back and read my post. I don’t see where I attacked you. I didn’t even disagree with you. My apologies.
Again I ask, did they?
 
Simple question. I didn’t mean to attack you. I went back and read my post. I don’t see where I attacked you. I didn’t even disagree with you. My apologies.
Again I ask, did they?

There were several that claimed in the 80's and 90's that they were criminals especially when Reagan was trying to get things legalized. I don't see any quotes of rapist.

But here is my point, while I don't like the words Trump has used to describe many hard working illegal immigrants who a majority are good people. I do think we have an illegal immigration problem. 12 million illegal immigrants just didn't magically appear in the US did they? Yes I am asking you Dub, do you think we have issue? Take what Trump has said out of the equation. Again I am not against some sort of pathway to citizenship if we can stem the flow. And have a plan to address those that are found later to have illegally entered the country once we pass some sort of path to citizenship.
 
There were several that claimed in the 80's and 90's that they were criminals especially when Reagan was trying to get things legalized. I don't see any quotes of rapist.

But here is my point, while I don't like the words Trump has used to describe many hard working illegal immigrants who a majority are good people. I do think we have an illegal immigration problem. 12 million illegal immigrants just didn't magically appear in the US did they? Yes I am asking you Dub, do you think we have issue? Take what Trump has said out of the equation. Again I am not against some sort of pathway to citizenship if we can stem the flow. And have a plan to address those that are found later to have illegally entered the country once we pass some sort of path to citizenship.
I can agree with this post. But, to me, there has been no plan, is no plan now and no evidence of a future plan to address the issues you’ve brought up. It is a mess, but other than building a wall and telling Americans that Mexico will pay for said wall, when in reality Americans are paying and military dollars are being redirected. That’s not a plan. That flying by the seat of your pants. Again, that’s my view.
 
Why call them dreamers then? Don't answer, I know.
I assume they call them that because they dream of becoming citizens some day. Just my guess I have no real knowledge of where that name came from.
 
I can agree with this post. But, to me, there has been no plan, is no plan now and no evidence of a future plan to address the issues you’ve brought up. It is a mess, but other than building a wall and telling Americans that Mexico will pay for said wall, when in reality Americans are paying and military dollars are being redirected. That’s not a plan. That flying by the seat of your pants. Again, that’s my view.

I can agree with you on that, there seems to be no plan past wanting to build a wall. But again both parties are just a guilty neither seem to want to do anything.

However this is were I think both parties and most citizens could come to some sort of agreement.
 
1- we should take care of those that can't for legit reasons...but most are just lazy shiftless vagabonds who grift off the system.

2-Healthcare isn't a right, it's a expensive service pay or don't receive it.

3-Public education is Free, Higher education cost and isn't a right pay or go to work.

4-I was a income maintenance worker for years and believe me nobody is starving or freezing to death unless they make poor decisions. We already have safety net programs for Healthcare,education grants,Section 8 housing,Food stamps,etc. And he is part of the 1% and he can volunteer to pay more taxes if he chooses that is a option...but does he..I doubt it.

5-Again he can choose to check the box and pay more taxes...but of course he has stipulations..I don't want to pay a dime to any Social program only the military,border control,economic growth and Roads...we all can have stipulations on what we want our money spent on RON. I just don't want mine going to lazy,irresponsible poor.

6-NO minimum wage is not a living wage on 40 hrs a week, nor should it be work more jobs if that is your only skill, being unskilled is not the taxpayers or employers fault. Look in the mirror and go to work and work 3 or 4 jobs if necessary. Don't steal from you neighbors sweat and labor.

7-HMM really I've not seen any Christian legislation passed in my life time...going full spin on that.

8-They do have the same rights as they should...the issue is a minority of them Leverage their status for gain and cry foul all the time playing the victim and demanding acceptance from all nobody has to accept or like them as long as they are treated fairly under the law.

9-Yes illegals do get services Hospitals can't refuse healthcare,schools must educate them at a high cost, and he is right employers are a issue that need to be rectified. And let's not go into the cost to the penal system.They are not citizens and need to be treated as such.

10-The gov. is more shady than most corporations, and way more wasteful because it's not their money, and over regulation often leads to companies being forced to cut corners to remain profitable. He has zero clue about the gov.

11-Jesus he is a nut job....Trump is not a fascist and shows no sign of that, completely a fabrication of us own bias.

12-BS woke propaganda, racism,misogyne etc. is at a all time low in this society.Women,minorities have never had it so good or had so many avenues for success. Gee Whiz even the XFL has mandated 2 women on every Zebra crew.

13-I'm on board with enforcing gun laws on the books...no new ones are needed.

14-Now who is being a fascist trying to control and force someone to speak and act according to his moral standard and code or be publicly shamed. Yeah Ron you can't control bad manners nor should you,or make people .

15-He is lying to anyone who read that or even to himself their clearly are not any other options at this time but to burn fossil fuels..wind,solar are a laughable alternative. You can't dream reality away.

16- Women are not treated as a separate class, and for the most part they receive equal wage. Once you factor out their missed time for maternity leave, and take away the top 1 percent of wealthy CEO men, women earn the same as the rest of us 99 percenters.Plus they always receive domestic situation bias, they have all the say in the birth or abortion of a child. More money is spent on Breast Cancer than prostate even though Prostate kills more men. All most 100% of suicide prevention funds go to women even though 75% plus of all suicides are white males.

From what I gather Ron Howard is a Card carrying commine who lives in a Fairy tale utopia world. He grew up in La La Land of Hollywood with more money than all of us and has spelled out how he wants the world to be but fails to realize that it is a impossible Dream, in a Free republic with a Capitalistic system,where everyone has the right to vote and think the way the want.

If he and his rich buddies really wanted to help with the Issues you know those 1%%% they could start of tax free charities and start Donating 90% of their worth...I mean he is only worth 160 million dollars...how many kids could he put through college or how many health care bills could he pay off on 144 million? Then Tom Hanks could chip in he is worth 400 million....360 million would go along way, or Our Own Liberal spewing Brad Pitt worth 300 million so add in 270 million.....See that is the issue they want the Gov. to spend mine and your hard earn money.....to satisfy their own beliefs and ideas. As I said anyone can pay more taxes that is always a Option.
 
Not intelligent? You may not like what he’s saying, but “not intelligent” doesn’t match his writing at all.

It's not intelligent because he offers zero solutions only that he thinks things should be the way he feels and thinks.
 
I don’t consider myself a liberal, but I do consider myself a Democrat. I don’t agree with everyone needing to have government -run healthcare insurance. Competition is good. If you already have a plan you like; keep it, is how I feel. Not all of us are “radical.”
One the other hand - for those who have blindly followed DJT, how can they call themselves Republicans? He stands for very little that the traditional Republican has stood for for years (tariffs and adding to national debt at an alarming rate to name a couple). So do we have a true Republican Party anymore or has this new party (the party of DJT) just stolen its name?

Nobody likes Tariffs if you have a free and open economy from both parties, but with China it's clear they where needed to stop the unequal playing field. Nobody likes the increased debt or bigger gov. but that genie is out of the bottle for both parties.
 
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