MSHSAA Success Multiplier

[FBisLife12]

This is a good thing. Dominant public programs should be given the opportunity to face (presumably) tougher opponents by moving up in classification too.

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/high-school/

 

[DirtyDan17]

This is a good thing. Dominant public programs should be given the opportunity to face (presumably) tougher opponents by moving up in classification too.

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/high-school/

Don't disagree to an extent. Should only apply to Class 3 and up. Teams like Caruthersville or Hayti who are always really good, but face declining population/enrollment shouldn't be penalized and put in a position where they may one day decide not to field a team rather than have to play up against Class 3 or 4 competition.

For dominant programs like Webb City, Maryville, Kearney, etc who constantly reload it will barely impact them.

On the other hand...those schools don't have the ability to reload yearly with 3* and 4* athletes from a metro area of 3 million people, so why handicap public schools who play by the same rules as everyone else? There's a reason private schools, especially those in the city face moving up, because they have distinct advantages that public schools don't have.

 

[FBisLife12]

Don't disagree to an extent. Should only apply to Class 3 and up. Teams like Caruthersville or Hayti who are always really good, but face declining population/enrollment shouldn't be penalized and put in a position where they may one day decide not to field a team rather than have to play up against Class 3 or 4 competition.

For dominant programs like Webb City, Maryville, Kearney, etc who constantly reload it will barely impact them.

On the other hand...those schools don't have the ability to reload yearly with 3* and 4* athletes from a metro area of 3 million people, so why handicap public schools who play by the same rules as everyone else? There's a reason private schools, especially those in the city face moving up, because they have distinct advantages that public schools don't have.

You make strong points about smaller classification public schools. Only I don’t view the opportunity to move up and compete with larger (and presumably better) schools as a “handicap”. Especially when a program has been shit canning weaker programs with similar enrollments for years. Conference rivalries would be maintained AND give kids the opportunity to develop more by playing up. I think not giving the Lamars and Webb Citys the chance to play stronger programs than they normally see puts their kids at a disadvantage.

 

[DirtyDan17]

You make strong points about smaller classification public schools. Only I don’t view the opportunity to move up and compete with larger (and presumably better) schools as a “handicap”. Especially when a program has been shit canning weaker programs with similar enrollments for years. Conference rivalries would be maintained AND give kids the opportunity to develop more by playing up. I think not giving the Lamars and Webb Citys the chance to play stronger programs than they normally see puts their kids at a disadvantage.

And I could see that. If I'm Lamar, Ava, or Penney of course I want my shot at Class 3 or 4 to see where we stand. The issue I see is a school like Hayti or Caruthersville stuck playing Class 3 or 4 schools with like 20 kids on their sideline.

You know football is a numbers game, if you start with 20 or 25 healthy kids you're going to end the year with 15ish healthy kids. Put them up against Class 3 or 4 schools with 35 to 80 kids on their sideline and it becomes dangerous. Especially when those tiny schools don't get to cherry pick the best of the best of a population of 3 million.

I'm with you, think the option should be available to public schools, but I think it should be just that, an option. If Lamar wants to shoot their shot against Class 4 competition and their last 6 years show their capable, let them, but don't force them.

 

[LHSTiger81]

Lamar plays up through the majority of their season. We're one of the smallest schools in our conference. We don't start facing schools with similar enrollment until the District play begins. It's often been the case that key players are dinged up, already from playing up during the regular season. The numbers game is a real issue. Now, if some kid from Carthage wanted to drive the 20 minutes and play for Lamar, he doesn't have that option, unlike the private schools.

 

[FBisLife12]

And I could see that. If I'm Lamar, Ava, or Penney of course I want my shot at Class 3 or 4 to see where we stand. The issue I see is a school like Hayti or Caruthersville stuck playing Class 3 or 4 schools with like 20 kids on their sideline.

You know football is a numbers game, if you start with 20 or 25 healthy kids you're going to end the year with 15ish healthy kids. Put them up against Class 3 or 4 schools with 35 to 80 kids on their sideline and it becomes dangerous. Especially when those tiny schools don't get to cherry pick the best of the best of a population of 3 million.

I'm with you, think the option should be available to public schools, but I think it should be just that, an option. If Lamar wants to shoot their shot against Class 4 competition and their last 6 years show their capable, let them, but don't force them.

Lamar’s an anomaly when it comes to roster numbers vs. school enrollment. It’s one of the reasons they regularly stomp out the Class 2 and 3 schools in their conference. Good for them for having 80 kids on their sideline. It’s proof of the success and culture they developed. It’s unfortunate they don’t get to jump up in classification. I don’t think roster size differential will matter greatly to Lutheran North, Trinity and Cardinal Ritter. None of the Class 4 schools in STL have huge roster numbers and it’ll likely provide better competition for all the kids involved. In fact, I think it’ll lead to increased interest from families in the more affluent Western Suburbs toward all 3 schools. With the added benefit of placating fans irritated their schools might face STL Area private schools in the Quarterfinals, Semifinals or Championship games.

 

[DirtyDan17]

Lamar’s an anomaly when it comes to roster numbers vs. school enrollment. It’s one of the reasons they regularly stomp out the Class 2 and 3 schools in their conference. Good for them for having 80 kids on their sideline. It’s proof of the success and culture they developed. It’s unfortunate they don’t get to jump up in classification. I don’t think roster size differential will matter greatly to Lutheran North, Trinity and Cardinal Ritter. None of the Class 4 schools in STL have huge roster numbers and it’ll likely provide better competition for all the kids involved. In fact, I think it’ll lead to increased interest from families in the more affluent Western Suburbs toward all 3 schools. With the added benefit of placating fans irritated their schools might face STL Area private schools in the Quarterfinals, Semifinals or Championship games.

If things continue the way they have, Trinity and Cardinal Ritter will be facing off against Class 5 schools. And good for them. I think you put it best, by making them (Trinity, Ritter) Class 5, the larger schools will have no reason to "duck them" when scheduling. Beneficial to everyone involved.

 

[hsmaniac]

When does this take affect?

 

[DirtyDan17]

When does this take affect?

2020

 

[cru66]

Trinity vs. CBC for the class 6 state title!

in the stands during the Joplin vs CBC matchup,CBC looked like a college team..dam they were big.

 

[FBisLife12]

It’s going to be fun to watch. Best guess? Valle jumps up to Class 3. Lutheran North moves to Class 4. The possibility of Trinity and CRCP moving up to Class 5 (although I think they’ll both end up in Class 4). MICDS up from Class 4 to 5? Vianney up to Class 6. I cant think of other private/parochial programs that have had significant success going back 5 years. Will JBS get bumped up? They’ve been booty the last 3 years, but won State in 2015. Lutheran-St. Charles up to Class 3, maybe? Are there any private schools in Kansas City or Jeff City/Colombia with enough success to move? Coed private schools get a 2.0 multiplier now. That should put Westminster Christian into Class 5 from 4.

 

[Bill_Shakespeare]

What’s flying under the radar with all this is the fact that there is no multiplier at all to determine your base class. I don’t know what the enrollment situation is all hardly any of these schools, but if Vianney doesn’t rack up the points to stay up classes they could potentially fall all the way back to 4 right?


Edit-Vianney is a poor example because of the Single Sex Multiplier still being in effect. The same thought would go for LN/Trinity. LN would be at 176 without the multiplier, well into Class 1

 

[FBisLife12]

What’s flying under the radar with all this is the fact that there is no multiplier at all to determine your base class. I don’t know what the enrollment situation is all hardly any of these schools, but if Vianney doesn’t rack up the points to stay up classes they could potentially fall all the way back to 4 right?


Edit-Vianney is a poor example because of the Single Sex Multiplier still being in effect. The same thought would go for LN/Trinity. LN would be at 176 without the multiplier, well into Class 1

All private schools will get an automatic 2X multiplier. Approximately 350 would put Lutheran North into Class 3. The article said MSHSAA would evaluate each program separately, but the optics of a program with an unadjusted enrollment of 176 squaring up against a public school with a 1000+ enrollment (in Class 5) is kinda funky. There’s a ton of mystery behind the equation that panel will use. We’ll see what happens.

 

[Cards1968]

The MSHSAA board of directors has the final say and will iron out the details at its meeting in September, but the way the proposal was explained at meetings throughout the state over the last year was something like this: A district title is worth one point. Quarterfinal victories are worth two, semifinal wins are worth three and state championships are worth four. The points are not cumulative. A state champion receives four points, not a total of 10 for its victories along the way.

The points accumulated over the six-year period determine whether the private or charter school's team moves up one classification or two. No team will move up more than two classifications from its raw enrollment. The board of directors will determine how many points move a team up one classification or two when it meets in September.


Two class max bump. It will take 6 years to fully implement. In the short term it will actually exacerbate the current disparity with the multiplier no longer in play at the outset save the all-boys/girls schools.

Makes me wish it was in play back in the day. We would have several state titles in girls b-ball had Visitation been bumped up.

 

[DirtyDan17]

All private schools will get an automatic 2X multiplier. Approximately 350 would put Lutheran North into Class 3. The article said MSHSAA would evaluate each program separately, but the optics of a program with an unadjusted enrollment of 176 squaring up against a public school with a 1000+ enrollment (in Class 5) is kinda funky. There’s a ton of mystery behind the equation that panel will use. We’ll see what happens.

Kinda like the optics of Lutheran North (with 26 hand picked D1 recruits from all over the St. Louis metro area) squaring off against Grandview (with 17 healthy kids, all from Dittmer) in the 1st round of districts...I guess you could call that "funky"...

 

[footplayer54]

Trinity vs. CBC for the class 6 state title!

Peppery?

 

[panther72]

Cards, it will not take 6 years. In the 20-21 school years, MSHSAA will look at the 6 years previous to see if the factor is in effect for that school year.

 

[Bill_Shakespeare]

All private schools will get an automatic 2X multiplier. Approximately 350 would put Lutheran North into Class 3. The article said MSHSAA would evaluate each program separately, but the optics of a program with an unadjusted enrollment of 176 squaring up against a public school with a 1000+ enrollment (in Class 5) is kinda funky. There’s a ton of mystery behind the equation that panel will use. We’ll see what happens.

Each non-public school will now be placed in a classification based off their raw enrollment. Then the point system based off success will determine whether a non-public school stays in the same class or moves up one or multiple classes. This point system will be determined this fall by the MSHSAA Board of Directors.

“It (the point system) should be decided by the fall (of 2019). That will be discussed at the September board meeting once we have been able to pull how everyone has done in the last six years.... It will be based on the raw enrollment. The only adjustments that will be made for unisex schools. Those that are single sex will still be doubled and that number will be used as their raw enrollment to determine where their starting base is.”

So essentially LN will be class one and capped out at Class 3 as the highest it can go.

 

[DirtyDan17]

Each non-public school will now be placed in a classification based off their raw enrollment. Then the point system based off success will determine whether a non-public school stays in the same class or moves up one or multiple classes. This point system will be determined this fall by the MSHSAA Board of Directors.

“It (the point system) should be decided by the fall (of 2019). That will be discussed at the September board meeting once we have been able to pull how everyone has done in the last six years.... It will be based on the raw enrollment. The only adjustments that will be made for unisex schools. Those that are single sex will still be doubled and that number will be used as their raw enrollment to determine where their starting base is.”

So essentially LN will be class one and capped out at Class 3 as the highest it can go.

So this fixed nothing. Typical.

 

[Team Tiger]

And I could see that. If I'm Lamar, Ava, or Penney of course I want my shot at Class 3 or 4 to see where we stand. The issue I see is a school like Hayti or Caruthersville stuck playing Class 3 or 4 schools with like 20 kids on their sideline.

You know football is a numbers game, if you start with 20 or 25 healthy kids you're going to end the year with 15ish healthy kids. Put them up against Class 3 or 4 schools with 35 to 80 kids on their sideline and it becomes dangerous. Especially when those tiny schools don't get to cherry pick the best of the best of a population of 3 million.

I'm with you, think the option should be available to public schools, but I think it should be just that, an option. If Lamar wants to shoot their shot against Class 4 competition and their last 6 years show their capable, let them, but don't force them.

I agree. Using a multiplier on public schools would take away a kids opportunity because of successes they didn't necessarily get to enjoy. Look at Lamar's current situation. Based on the last six years they would definitely be a class or two higher. However they do not currently have the athletes to compete at that level. These kids shouldn't be subjected to an early exit in class 4 when they have an opportunity to compete and make a run in there actual class.

 

[FBisLife12]

Kinda like the optics of Lutheran North (with 26 hand picked D1 recruits from all over the St. Louis metro area) squaring off against Grandview (with 17 healthy kids, all from Dittmer) in the 1st round of districts...I guess you could call that "funky"...

The students and families that choose to attend Lutheran North aren’t “hand picked”. They CHOOSE to attend the school. I don’t expect you to see beyond your emotions to accept that, but you’re convinced that you favorite country school is being cheated even when they won’t have to play LN, Ritter or Trinity anymore. Boo-****in-hoo.

 

[FBisLife12]

I agree. Using a multiplier on public schools would take away a kids opportunity because of successes they didn't necessarily get to enjoy. Look at Lamar's current situation. Based on the last six years they would definitely be a class or two higher. However they do not currently have the athletes to compete at that level. These kids shouldn't be subjected to an early exit in class 4 when they have an opportunity to compete and make a run in there actual class.

This might be the first time anyone here actually typed out that they don’t think Lamar has the ability to compete above Class 2. Unfortunately, MSHSAA didn’t give them (or any other public school) the opportunity to even consider playing up and facing (presumably) stiffer competition. Some small fish prefer to stay in ponds. Others pursue deeper waters. I don’t think Lamar would move up, even if they were given the choice.

 

[DirtyDan17]

The students and families that choose to attend Lutheran North aren’t “hand picked”. They CHOOSE to attend the school. I don’t expect you to see beyond your emotions to accept that, but you’re convinced that you favorite country school is being cheated even when they won’t have to play LN, Ritter or Trinity anymore. Boo-****in-hoo.

I mean, ultimately you're arguing semantics. They may not be "hand picked" but to say those schools don't have people (coaches, teachers, advertising, etc) directed to specifically target certain kids (athletically gifted) in order to raise the status of the school is a lie. Yeah the parents ultimately have to make the decision to send their kids there, but that's an EASY decision to make.

I don't begrudge the kids, the parents, or anyone involved with the school for putting themselves in a position to maximize their success. That's awesome. But let's not act like they're targeting the 5'4" 116 pound kid who runs a 5 flat 40 the same way they target elite athletes.

 

[Pancho and Lefty]

Why is the not much support or thoughts of splitting public / private into separate classes?

Is it fear of if they split them separately that the privates would go totally all in in recruiting efforts?

I know it would not be fair to the Valle's to have to compete with the CBC's.

 

[Team Tiger]

This might be the first time anyone here actually typed out that they don’t think Lamar has the ability to compete above Class 2. Unfortunately, MSHSAA didn’t give them (or any other public school) the opportunity to even consider playing up and facing (presumably) stiffer competition. Some small fish prefer to stay in ponds. Others pursue deeper waters. I don’t think Lamar would move up, even if they were given the choice.

You either missed the point or disregarded it took the opportunity to take a jab at Lamar. Either way I don't think anyone needs it typed out to know that a class 2 team that lost in the semis probably wouldn't be able compete very well in class 3 or 4 playoffs.

 

[FBisLife12]

I mean, ultimately you're arguing semantics. They may not be "hand picked" but to say those schools don't have people (coaches, teachers, advertising, etc) directed to specifically target certain kids (athletically gifted) in order to raise the status of the school is a lie. Yeah the parents ultimately have to make the decision to send their kids there, but that's an EASY decision to make.

I don't begrudge the kids, the parents, or anyone involved with the school for putting themselves in a position to maximize their success. That's awesome. But let's not act like they're targeting the 5'4" 116 pound kid who runs a 5 flat 40 the same way they target elite athletes.

Like I said ... you’re free to believe whatever you want, even though it’s not based on facts. Just your imagination. Private schools have a distinct advantage in that they can enroll kids from a larger area (not one municipality), plus STL private schools have a larger pool to draw from PERIOD. Those are facts. Your claim that there’s something nefarious going on and that coaches MUST be selecting athletes isn’t fact simply because you want to believe that it is.

What it boils down to is that you simply can’t control your emotional reflex to bitch about specific private schools in STL. I’ve been waiting for months just so I could watch you do it again because it’s entertaining. THAT too, is a fact.

 

[FBisLife12]

Why is the not much support or thoughts of splitting public / private into separate classes?

Is it fear of if they split them separately that the privates would go totally all in in recruiting efforts?

I know it would not be fair to the Valle's to have to compete with the CBC's.

The claim that private schools will “go nuts” and ravage communities for their best students is a paranoid delusion of public school fanatics. The only thing now that stops parents from sending their kids to private schools is 1) the option to go to one ... and 2) their ability to pay tuition.

MSHSAA won’t split into public and private divisions because they’re impotent and ineffectual. They lack the vision, foresight or balls to do anything other than react. They’re a wannabe NCAA and they’re a knockoff version of a competent statewide activities association.

 

[FBisLife12]

You either missed the point or disregarded it took the opportunity to take a jab at Lamar. Either way I don't think anyone needs it typed out to know that a class 2 team that lost in the semis probably wouldn't be able compete very well in class 3 or 4 playoffs.

I disagree that Lamar couldn’t compete in Class 3 and 4 ... I disagree that they shouldn’t be given the opportunity to, and that it isn’t in their kids best interests to compete against larger schools/tougher opponents and succeed in the playoffs.

 

[DirtyDan17]

Like I said ... you’re free to believe whatever you want, even though it’s not based on facts. Just your imagination. Private schools have a distinct advantage in that they can enroll kids from a larger area (not one municipality), plus STL private schools have a larger pool to draw from PERIOD. Those are facts. Your claim that there’s something nefarious going on and that coaches MUST be selecting athletes isn’t fact simply because you want to believe that it is.

What it boils down to is that you simply can’t control your emotional reflex to bitch about specific private schools in STL. I’ve been waiting for months just so I could watch you do it again because it’s entertaining. THAT too, is a fact.

Where have I "bitched"? Was just presenting an argument. You're welcome to refute it, but I believe I've been more than complimentary to what is being done at private schools across the board.

I've never stated anything "nefarious" is going on, the prerogative at certain private schools is athletic achievement and setting up their students to get a college education via athletics and thus they target students with elite athleticism to help them achieve that end. I'm not saying that's a "bad" or "nefarious" thing, but it is the reality.

You can argue my wording of "hand picked" if you want, but to say there is ZERO targeting or preference for certain kids (elite athletes) by certain schools is either a lie or incredibly naive.

 

[FBisLife12]

Where have I "bitched"? Was just presenting an argument. You're welcome to refute it, but I believe I've been more than complimentary to what is being done at private schools across the board.

I've never stated anything "nefarious" is going on, the prerogative at certain private schools is athletic achievement and setting up their students to get a college education via athletics and thus they target students with elite athleticism to help them achieve that end. I'm not saying that's a "bad" or "nefarious" thing, but it is the reality.

You can argue my wording of "hand picked" if you want, but to say there is ZERO targeting or preference for certain kids (elite athletes) by certain schools is either a lie or incredibly naive.

Yep. I’m taking offense to the “hand picked” claim. What I’ll share with you (because I chose to send MY kid to a STL private school) is that it’s a myth that private schools are throwing money around, recruiting or luring kids to their programs. Why aren’t they? Because this is Missouri and it’s high school athletics. There’s no money to be made by winning State for a MO private high school and “bragging rights” don’t pay bills. If they did then JBS would still be a relevant football program in Class 3. Don’t think THEY didn’t have enough money to buy kids? That THEY couldn’t cherry pick kids if they wanted them just for athletics?

What IS happening is that talented athletes from families with the means to pay tuition are FLOCKING to Lutheran North, Trinity and Ritter. It’s going to get even MORE pronounced because Lutheran North has a Middle School now, and they’re developing kids into their system and culture earlier. Combine that with the kids at public schools that see colleges at the campus daily and choose to transfer in.

I know you don’t believe it. That you feel so strongly about a situation that you personally have no connection to that you’re certain I must be lying or naive. One thing that I’m not, is misinformed about the subject ... but you’re free to think what you want to. Personally, I think MSHSAA screwed the pooch with the private school changes but I’m not surprised they did.

 

[DirtyDan17]

Yep. I’m taking offense to the “hand picked” claim. What I’ll share with you (because I chose to send MY kid to a STL private school) is that it’s a myth that private schools are throwing money around, recruiting or luring kids to their programs. Why aren’t they? Because this is Missouri and it’s high school athletics. There’s no money to be made by winning State for a MO private high school and “bragging rights” don’t pay bills. If they did then JBS would still be a relevant football program in Class 3. Don’t think THEY didn’t have enough money to buy kids? That THEY couldn’t cherry pick kids if they wanted them just for athletics?

What IS happening is that talented athletes from families with the means to pay tuition are FLOCKING to Lutheran North, Trinity and Ritter. It’s going to get even MORE pronounced because Lutheran North has a Middle School now, and they’re developing kids into their system and culture earlier. Combine that with the kids at public schools that see colleges at the campus daily and choose to transfer in.

I know you don’t believe it. That you feel so strongly about a situation that you personally have no connection to that you’re certain I must be lying or naive. One thing that I’m not, is misinformed about the subject ... but you’re free to think what you want to. Personally, I think MSHSAA screwed the pooch with the private school changes but I’m not surprised they did.

You realize we're arguing the exact same thing right?

I've never said it had anything to do with money. I get that success (athletically, academically, school safety) recruits for itself. Having D1 schools on campus every week OBVIOUSLY recruits for itself, I've never even implied differently. But unless you have some concrete proof that these schools DON'T target specific students (who just happen to be elite athletes) it just amounts to the two of us saying "Uh huh they do" and you saying "Nuh uh they don't".

The evidence looks like they do, getting multiple D1 transfers every year speaks for itself. You know what they say, if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it's usually a duck.

 

[Bill_Shakespeare]

I spent an extremely busy morning compiling what some of these classes would look like before anybody moved up. (2017-2018 Enrollment #’s/2017-2018 Class Breaks)

Class One (0-188)

Valle Catholic 104
St Vincent 111
Principia 159
St. Paul Lutheran 162
Summit Christian 169
Lutheran North 176
University Academy Charter 187

Class Two (189-337)

Fr Tolton 214
St. Pius X Festus 219
St. Michael Arch Angel 224
Lift for Life 233
Christian 254
St. Pius X KC 261
Cardinal Ritter 264
Lutheran St. Charles 267
Trinity Catholic 267
Hogan Prep 271
Soldan International 290
Springfield Catholic 300
Missouri Military Academy 303**
John Burroughs 314
Miller Career 314
Lutheran South 334

Class 3 (337-551)

Confluence Prep 370
Lincoln Prep 414
St. Francis Borgia 433
MICDS 465
St. Mary’s 500
Helias Catholic 524
St. Dominic 532

Class Four (552-1000)
Priory 576**
Westminster Christian 708**


Class Five (1001-1300)
Chaminade 1202**
Vianney 1278**

Class Six (1300-2017)

Desmet 1488**
CBC 1650**
SLUH 2017**
Rockhurst 2017**


Important: Proposal 9(Resizing classifications) isn’t factored in whatsoever. What I understand(not much) is that Class 1 will still be lowest 64 and all classes even up after that. I think that number is around 53 FWIW.

 

[PCole]

The claim that private schools will “go nuts” and ravage communities for their best students is a paranoid delusion of public school fanatics. The only thing now that stops parents from sending their kids to private schools is 1) the option to go to one ... and 2) their ability to pay tuition.

MSHSAA won’t split into public and private divisions because they’re impotent and ineffectual. They lack the vision, foresight or balls to do anything other than react. They’re a wannabe NCAA and they’re a knockoff version of a competent statewide activities association.

That, and powerful anti-public schools/anti-MSHSAA legislators have threatened to have DESE take over what MSHSAA does.

 

[HoopsTournament]

I spent an extremely busy morning compiling what some of these classes would look like before anybody moved up. (2017-2018 Enrollment #’s/2017-2018 Class Breaks)

Class One (0-188)

Valle Catholic 104
St Vincent 111
Bishop LeBlond 120
Principia 159
St. Paul Lutheran 162
Summit Christian 169
Lutheran North 176
University Academy Charter 187

Class Two (189-337)

Fr Tolton 214
St. Pius X Festus 219
St. Michael Arch Angel 224
Lift for Life 233
Christian 254
St. Pius X KC 261
Cardinal Ritter 264
Lutheran St. Charles 267
Trinity Catholic 267
Hogan Prep 271
Central Academy 277
Soldan International 290
Springfield Catholic 300
Missouri Military Academy 303**
John Burroughs 314
Miller Career 314
Lutheran South 334

Class 3 (337-551)

Confluence Prep 370
Lincoln Prep 414
St. Francis Borgia 433
MICDS 465
St. Mary’s 500
Helias Catholic 524
St. Dominic 532

Class Four (552-1000)
Priory 576**
Westminster Christian 708**


Class Five (1001-1300)
Chaminade 1202**
Vianney 1278**

Class Six (1300-2017)

Desmet 1488**
CBC 1650**
SLUH 2017**
Rockhurst 2017**


Important: Proposal 9(Resizing classifications) isn’t factored in whatsoever. What I understand(not much) is that Class 1 will still be lowest 64 and all classes even up after that. I think that number is around 53 FWIW.

Bishop LeBlond will be 8-man. You are missing St. Joseph Christian/Northland Christian co-op that will be 11-man.

 

[panther72]

Central Academy is a public school in KC, not a charter.

 

[FBisLife12]

You realize we're arguing the exact same thing right?

I've never said it had anything to do with money. I get that success (athletically, academically, school safety) recruits for itself. Having D1 schools on campus every week OBVIOUSLY recruits for itself, I've never even implied differently. But unless you have some concrete proof that these schools DON'T target specific students (who just happen to be elite athletes) it just amounts to the two of us saying "Uh huh they do" and you saying "Nuh uh they don't".

The evidence looks like they do, getting multiple D1 transfers every year speaks for itself. You know what they say, if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it's usually a duck.

“Prove to me that what my imagination is telling me isn’t true.”. You mean other than my own personal experiences and knowledge? Other than MSHSAA has been through the program with a fine toothed comb and not once found your (and MANY others’) accusations to be fact? The sky isn’t falling, bro.

Whatever, man. You sound REAL “Flat Earther” right now. The only evidence I see is that talented kids have families that choose to send their kids there, and the coaches have made preparation for college football and exposure to college coaches a priority. If YOU lived in STL, had a talented son with aspirations of playing in college, had the means to pay tuition, and WEREN’T obsessed with conspiracy theories ... you’d be considering sending him there and no one would need to talk you into it.

Believe what you want to. It’s a lot more entertaining to read your comments when you do.

 

[DirtyDan17]

“Prove to me that what my imagination is telling me isn’t true.”. You mean other than my own personal experiences and knowledge? Other than MSHSAA has been through the program with a fine toothed comb and not once found your (and MANY others’) accusations to be fact? The sky isn’t falling, bro.

Whatever, man. You sound REAL “Flat Earther” right now. The only evidence I see is that talented kids have families that choose to send their kids there, and the coaches have made preparation for college football and exposure to college coaches a priority. If YOU lived in STL, had a talented son with aspirations of playing in college, had the means to pay tuition, and WEREN’T obsessed with conspiracy theories ... you’d be considering sending him there and no one would need to talk you into it.

Believe what you want to. It’s a lot more entertaining to read your comments when you do.

I live in St. Louis county, and do send my kids to private school, sadly, no sons, if I did and they had athletic aspirations you're absolutely right I'd take a long look at Lutheran North, though to be honest based entirely on religious background we'd probably be looking at Westminster or O'Fallon Christian.

As for sounding "flat earther", ok. But I still haven't disagreed with you on WHY people are sending their kids to these schools. Not sure why you're so aggressively trying to make an argument out of me agreeing with you.

 

[sw5890]

What I think is interesting is the popularity of private schools in St Louis County in spite of the fact that St Louis County is also home to most of the best public schools in Missouri.

Meanwhile, around here I think many people think of Webb City almost like a private christian school.

 

[BPcompete]

What I think is interesting is the popularity of private schools in St Louis County in spite of the fact that St Louis County is also home to most of the best public schools in Missouri.

Meanwhile, around here I think many people think of Webb City almost like a private christian school.

St. Louis is home to many private schools, but outside of FOOTBALL and like Soccer they aren't just running the local sports scene like MoSports posters would make you think.
The recruiting thing in my opinion is really a justification and an excuse. There are still tons of great athletes in the Hazelwood, Kirkwood, and McCluer school districts and this has always been the case. Football is the only sport where kids are being funneled to private schools (been the case for 20 years at least).
The private schools are simply more appealing for football because of College recruiting. Great athletes in STL City (Cardinal Ritter) and North County (Trinity/Lutheran North) have also always been going to these schools. The 2019 recruiting exposure is what I think flipped things.

When you see Florida State coming into Lutheran North and Offering 7 guys you're gonna wanna go to a school that creates that type of exposure. But the recruiting players to your school has pretty much always been false.

Trinity/Ritter/LN is easier to get into academically and also cost less than Desmet, Vianney, MICDS and CBC so you're gonna have more Football prospects attend those schools naturally. Make no Mistake though, DeSmet will be the best team in the St Louis Area and probably win class 6 going away next year.

I never understood why the small private schools get the hate on here when the True Super mega teams are in the MCC conference.

 

[USArmyMike]

Still all the crying over private schools. Private schools come and go yet public schools hold the records for most consecutive wins, state titles and playoff appearances. But private schools make it unfair. Cry babies