Mizzou vs Illini
- Thread starter kaskaskiakid
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Good win for Mizzou. I liked the Cuonzo Martin hiring from the start. So far, not great results. He needs a dominate year this year with the weapons MIzzou has and bring the excitement back to Mizzou basketball.
Solid win. They are fun to watch playing at that pace. Not much depth. Could hurt over the long haul. He better roll this into some major recruiting for the 21 class. If he doesn’t, this will be his only decent year.
Agree, and afraid Mizzou fans won't have patience. I think he is a good coach but has to recruit better. Travis Ford is a recruiter and doing well at selling the STL kids on SLU. Wish Miz and SLU played. Didn't Martin lose a couple scholarships for a couple years because of the previous academic scandal? That's a huge disadvantage. I really hope they don't run him out too soon.
Sure is fun finally having some local area teams to root for this year. I always root for Illini too. Ayo Dosunmu is NBAer.
Class of 21 will be interesting. How many can you recruit right now? Can’t everyone return for an extra year?
Not much depth? This is the deepest team we’ve had in 10 years. Javon, Buggs, Mitch, Parker is very solid depth. P5 teams typically don’t play more than 8-9.
We’re going to struggle next year if none of the seniors+Pinson come back. Definitely need some impact transfers.
Next years class is a foundation class. I’m fine with people being upset with that in year 5, but it’s a great foundation to lay for 2-3 years down the road. Most of the fanbase won’t be happy with that, but it is what it is.
Drink confirmed that the seniors this year in football won’t count against scholarship limits next year if they want to come back. I assume it will be the same for basketball. We have 5 committed for the 2021 class and we are losing 6 if none come back (5 seniors + Pinson). We also currently have one open scholly I believe. Hopefully the two extra schollys for next year will be used for impact transfers to balance out the classes.
Pickett is the only one of that bunch that can really provide quality minutes, IMHO. Relying on Mitchell Smith and Parker Braun for more than about 5 mins/game isn't good.
While that can be a true statement, so can the statement about depth. Not exactly a great barometer.
I'm not sure if he's good or not. Never really stayed anywhere long enough to tell. His career trajectory would lean towards him using this potentially good season to bolt. No place he's ever been has ever been too torn up that he left. It's odd. Definitely has teams that play hard and guard well. Offense is borderline disaster at times (see never deviating from ball screen motion once MPJ went down), but can be productive. Players typically don't improve their individual game much, but then you look at them this year and think maybe they do. He's had some horrid luck (Porter injuries) and took over a really rough situation. He'd be gone already if it weren't for the outrageous buyout, which was necessitated by how bad the situation was. So, in all, the buyout probably worked for all parties.
His recruiting does need to get better. He gets an STL kid, then runs him out. Granted, it seems like McKinney is a huge turd. Had some awful luck with the Porters. And has struck out with some you think he might get (strength coach's nephew). He can't keep "winning" recruiting battles with Southern Utah or Jackson St for immobile 7'3" guys that are pretty much useless in today's game...Didn't even consider the COViD effect and guys coming back, but that's a great point. Might buy him a year to get things balanced out roster-wise.
I can tell by this quote you haven't watched much Mizzou basketball this year. Mitch Smith deserves 15+ minutes a game (Currently averaging 22 mpg). He is a totally different player than previous years. If you watched our team at the end of last year, you could tell he flipped a switch when he was starting when Tilmon was injured. He's a big reason we beat Ill and has been contributing all year. Lol that's just straight nonsense.
Drew Buggs is the all time assist leader at Hawaii. You're telling me he's not an asset off the bench when Pinson is having a bad game? Comes in under control and makes things happen. Had 5 assists off the bench against a tough Liberty team when Pinson was a no show.
Even though I disagree, I will let you have Parker. The offense flows better when he is in the game and he can make things happen with his athleticism. His defense is a big question mark at this point in his career and is the main reason his minutes are limited.
We'll see if Mitch holds up against quality teams. Idk man, 3+ yrs of proof is there. Maybe he's turned the corner. One or two games isn't going to change my opinion.
All-time assist leader at Hawaii? Digging deep. Those guys are typically at those schools for a reason.
If one of Pinson or the Smiths go down for any extended period of time, they're in trouble. Every time Tilmon picks up two quick ones, they're at risk. That's what I mean by lack of depth. Over a 30 game schedule, that's a big deal. The fact that Braun and that big doof even see the floor in P5 hoops is scary.
Javon Pickett is a very good bench player. The rest of the bench, I don’t know. If you think they’re good then we’re seeing totally different things.
Mitchell Smith is a versatile defender who makes free throws — but he’s largely not worth guarding when he is on the floor, especially outside the paint. If he shoots it from beyond lay-up distance, that’s a quality defensive possession for the opponent. He's made himself a useful role player by focusing on defense, but I think it's a real stretch to pretend he's anything other than mediocre.
I don’t really care what he did at Hawaii, Buggs has been a non-factor on offense at Mizzou so far. He’s barely even scored a point. We are giving a guy a lot of praise for dribbling the ball down and getting rid of it without screwing up because other than that, he's not done anything meaningful.
I like Braun as a role player, but you can barely play him because other than an open dunk, he gives you nothing offensively. Again, makes his free throws, versatile defender. Active. But he’s a less productive version of Mitchell Smith.
I’ve yet to see Watson do much of anything.
Wilmore is a big body who is useful in certain match-ups. But I don’t see him being much of an impact guy in the future and certainly is a non-factor this year. I would be shocked if he was at Mizzou all four years. Low major player IMO.
Mitchell Smith is a versatile defender who makes free throws — but he’s largely not worth guarding when he is on the floor, especially outside the paint. If he shoots it from beyond lay-up distance, that’s a quality defensive possession for the opponent. He's made himself a useful role player by focusing on defense, but I think it's a real stretch to pretend he's anything other than mediocre.
I don’t really care what he did at Hawaii, Buggs has been a non-factor on offense at Mizzou so far. He’s barely even scored a point. We are giving a guy a lot of praise for dribbling the ball down and getting rid of it without screwing up because other than that, he's not done anything meaningful.
I like Braun as a role player, but you can barely play him because other than an open dunk, he gives you nothing offensively. Again, makes his free throws, versatile defender. Active. But he’s a less productive version of Mitchell Smith.
I’ve yet to see Watson do much of anything.
Wilmore is a big body who is useful in certain match-ups. But I don’t see him being much of an impact guy in the future and certainly is a non-factor this year. I would be shocked if he was at Mizzou all four years. Low major player IMO.
Mitch turned the corner last year when he played significant minutes in 10 or so SEC games when Tilmon was out. I understand most probably didn’t watch those games, but anybody who did could tell you he turned a corner. His play has carried over to this year. He outplayed Tilmon in the Illinois game (one of the main reasons we won) and has been an asset all year off the bench.
Did you guys watch the Liberty game? The game that Pinson had 6 turnovers and Buggs came in and dropped 5 dimes? Offense wasn’t flowing and Pinson was out of control. Buggs came in and completely changed the game. He’s not here to score, so if you are looking for points in the box score, that’s not him.
Did you guys watch the Wichita St game when we brought Braun in and we had a 11-0 run? It’s laughable to say he gives us nothing offensively. Our offense is best when he’s on the court. He’s athletic and we can actually run a 5 out type offense. It’s his defense that is keeping him from more minutes at this point.
I don’t know what type of benches you guys are expecting, unless you think we should be a blueblood level program. I would argue that any team would have problems if they lost their starting big or one of their best starting guards.
I've watched every game I can, and I agree with you. Some of these guys haven't taken the time and effort to watch very much, or they just don't know much about the game. Might be Beaker fans.
Or you two are just accustomed to the garbage MU has rolled out there the last 10 yrs or so...Just so we’re all on the same page, Liberty and Wichita St would be good for about bottom four in the SEC. Let’s have some perspective. I wouldn’t get too fired up about individual performances there...The Tigers are much improved. Hopefully top half finish in conference. But depth still feels like an issue.
Not to me. Missouri will never get 5 or 6 Five stars or however many Kentucky feels they need, but they have enough bench to get by. They did fine against the Illini when Mark Smith laid an egg and fouled out as did Tilmon. They bent, but they didn't break. Their biggest flaw might be a lack of consistent shooting and no real dominant inside game.
Lol ... I watch every game. Those guys are contributing to wins, but the idea that they are quality SEC players is absurd. With the exception of Picket none of the guys coming off the MU be cC are SEC level players. The evidence is one is a senior and still coming off the bench.
MU is winning in spite of them not because of them.
MU is winning in spite of them not because of them.
Nobody said they are winning because of them. They are depth guys, pretty much every team needs them. They take minutes where they are presented. Lol
No. You said we don't have depth. My argument is we absolutely have depth. I said Mitch came in and helped us win the Illinois game because Tilmon was playing like trash. Buggs helped win the Liberty game. Yes they are bench players for a reason. But we have depth.
Liberty is a tournament team. They've already beat two SEC opponents.
Mizzou currently has the number 2 WAB in the nation. You can try to downplay our opponents all you want, but we've had a touch schedule so far.
Noted. Can't be a senior and come off the bench. That automatically qualifies you as a non-factor and definitely doesn't add experienced depth.
Noted. Can't be a senior and come off the bench. That automatically qualifies you as a non-factor and definitely doesn't add experienced depth.
Wow. I'll take a senior on the bench. Could give you some minutes, knows his role, leadership... lots of pluses.
I guess it's semantics...but you saying they came off the bench and helped to win is winning because...not in spite. Buggs in the Liberty game was a pulse replacing a negative. Mitch was fine in the Illini game. I think they win it with or without him...but I guess the flagrant his face got in the way of was a big help. Lol
They beat Miss St and S. Carolina...preseason 8 and 12 in the conference, I think. Liberty is a good mid-major. And if they win the ASUN, they'll get in. If not, they won't. Calling them a tourney team now is a big stretch.
Never said their schedule was trash. My point was those bench players making contributions in non-con games against Liberty and Wich St are a far cry from doing over the course of the SEC season. By then, it's a grind. And the book is out on those players by then. Preparation is different for conference play. I hope like heck they hold up. I watch almost every game. It's been painful the last 5+ yrs. This year has definitely been more fun.
I’ll 100% eat crow if our bench doesn’t show up during conference season. I think they will.
I think...as long as their exposure beyond Pickett is pretty limited, they should be fine. I just feel like the Tigers, if healthy, could far surpass the 10th place preseason prediction. But their margin is slim. One of the top six goes down, and they're hurting quickly.
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