Mizzou Basketball will apparently hire...
- Thread starter Graphic Edge Guy
- Start date
Yip.....C =\~
Cleveland State’s Dennis Gates is emerging as the target in Missouri men’s basketball search according to reports from ESPN.
.....Who really cares. For severeal years, most folks including me would rather attend a good high school game than setting through the misery of Miz-Zou poor excuse of D-1 team basketball in the Wal-Mart barn... .. . C =|~
I’d say if the reports are accurate, fan apathy like this will continue for while. It’s really equal parts sad and comical what that program has become. The athletic department as a whole seems to be on a downward trend.
Seems like a really weak hire. Shows where Mizzou is seen in the big picture of college basketball.
I was underwhelmed at first but the more I hear the more I like this guy. It might just have a chance to work out well!
What exactly do you like? Turned around Cleveland St. Positive. 1-20 vs kenpom top 150. Negative. Hard nosed defensive teams. Positive, I guess. Teams have ranked in bottom third in all of D1 of offensive efficiency all three yrs. Negative. The subjective stuff says anyone with a pulse could compete in the Horizon. He’s a “quality leader” and whatever other BS gets said when a guy nobody has ever heard of gets hired. On paper, he’s Cuonzo minus the experience. Bad offense and hard nosed defense doesn’t fly in P5 hoops. And it certainly won’t put butts in seats.
BASICALLY: A lot of good basketball people in the know seem to think very highly of him. They say he has a great basketball mind, is VERY smart, very connected in the college basketball world, is a tireless worker and a very good recruiter, and a top notch person. Gabe DeArmond at Power Mizzou really likes Gates.
-----------------------------
Source tells me Gates had an opportunity to be South Carolina's coach and turned it down.
Expand signature
Gabe DeArmond
Publisher Power Mizzou
-----------------------------
Dennis Gates
Age: 42Current position: Cleveland State head coach (third season)
Past head coaching experience: none
Salary: $550,000
Buyout: $600,000
Gates' record during his three seasons at Cleveland State — 50-40 — doesn't jump off the page. Unlike some other candidates who have garnered buzz during Missouri's search, his team isn't playing in the NCAA Tournament.
But Gates has impressed his peers in the Horizon League, at least. Gates got voted as the conference's coach of the year following each of his first two seasons at Cleveland State. Add that to his eight years of experience as an assistant coach under Leonard Hamilton at Florida State, and Gates has apparently piqued the interest of the Missouri administration.
Gates, a Chicago native, played his college basketball at California. During his senior season, the Golden Bears made the 2002 NCAA Tournament. He actually began his coaching career in the NBA as a skill development coach for the Los Angeles Clippers, but he returned to college coaching shortly thereafter. He worked as a graduate assistant both at Marquette and at Florida State.
In 2005, Gates returned to his alma mater as a full-time assistant. He spent two seasons there coaching under his former college coach, Ben Braun. In 2007, he returned to his home state as an assistant at Northern Illinois. He moved on to Nevada for two seasons, then migrated to Tallahassee, where he joined forces with Hamilton.
At Florida State, Gates was credited with some of the recruiting success that allowed the Seminoles to overcome a four-year absence from the NCAA Tournament and emerge as a perennial power. The Seminoles made the Sweet 16 during Gates' first season at Florida State, but averaged just 19.25 wins over the following four seasons. That resulted in some pressure on Hamilton, but due in large part to some positive momentum on the recruiting trail, the administration kept him in place.
That momentum largely stemmed from the commitment of Jonathan Isaac in the class of 2016. The five-star prospect went on to become the ninth selection in the 2017 NBA Draft. The 2016 recruiting class also included future first-round draft pick Mfiondu Kabengele, who Gates was credited with discovering for Florida State, as well as multi-year contributors C.J. Walker and Trent Forrest. The following year, Gates and Florida State inked two more top 150 prospects in four-star RayQuan Gray and five-star M.J. Walker.
That recruiting success translated into a run of four straight NCAA Tournament appearances for Florida State, which would have been five had the COVID-19 pandemic not canceled the 2020 postseason. It also put Gates on the radar for schools searching for a head coach.
In 2019, Cleveland State gave Gates his first head-coaching opportunity. It didn't come without challenges. The Viking program had struggled mightily prior to Gates' arrival, going a combined 40-89 over the prior four seasons. The year before Gates took the job, Cleveland State ranked No. 278 in Division I according to KenPom.
Gates didn't achieve success right away, going 11-21 in 2019-20. But last season, he broke through, leading Cleveland State to a 19-8 overall record and an NCAA Tournament berth. The Vikings won the Horizon League regular season for the first time since 2010 and the league tournament for the first time since 2009. It finished the season ranked 169th by KenPom.
Cleveland State again won the Horizon League regular season this year, although the Vikings lost to eventual tournament champion Wright State in the conference semifinals. The Vikings fell to Xavier by four points on Tuesday in the first round of the NIT, ending their season.
Gates signed a new six-year contract following his trip to the NCAA Tournament last year, but his buyout is just $600,000. In addition to South Carolina, his name been posited by some as a potential replacement for Mike White at Florida.
------------------
Traded messages with a couple college coaches this morning about Gates and the first thing each responded with was his ability to recruit and the amount of connections he has.Mentioned he coaches with extreme detail in practice.
everyone had good things to say, and said it was a good hire.
--------------------------
Watch his press conference intro at Cleveland State:
-------------------------
Reports: MU men's basketball preparing to hire Cleveland State coach Gates
Per reports, Cleveland State coach Dennis Gates is set to be the new MU men's basketball coach, pending board approval.
-----------------------------
I texted with a friend earlier who is well-connected in the recruiting scene and knows a lot of people who know Dennis Gates.
His first thought: “I love Cuonzo, super great guy. But not a killer on the recruiting trail. DG is the complete opposite. He will go to war.”
He added that nearly everyone he talks to agrees that Gates was a big part of saving Hamilton’s job by finding and landing Terrance Mann and Johnathan Isaac.
Also noted that Gates is one of the recruiters Chicago high schools coaches liked most because he didn’t play mind games with their kids. Has developed a really good reputation in that area and across the country in general.
His final note was that Gates will have no fear using the transfer portal and upgrading the roster. He did at Cleveland State in a big way and will bring in talent in a hurry. He added that there are three very good mid-major players he knows of planning to enter the portal and that Gates will have a very good chance because he tried to get them to Cleveland State but they wanted to play at bigger programs.
How much of that all comes to fruition remains to be seen, but he said that everyone he has talked to at the high school and college level agreed that Gates was by far the best candidate of him/Golden/McMahon/English.
---------------------------------
I traded text with Chicago area AAU Coaches I know. Wanted to get his thoughts on Gates. He said Gates "will definitely be able to get players. Has strong Chicago ties." Obviously you can always find someone to say something nice about a new coach, but figured that was worth passing on.
Mitchell Forde
Managing Editor
PowerMizzou.com
Last edited:
Fair enough, thanks for the response. Obviously time will tell. I remember reading the same types of Comments about Haith, especially in his time at Texas. I worry about how his teams win. Bad offense mixed with really good defense. It’ll get it done in the Horizon, but that’s about it. And that his resume is extremely short. Easily can argue that Miss St and UGA made better hires in conf, and Xavier did out of conference. Can’t imagine anyone wearing black and gold thinks those programs are/were more attractive.BASICALLY: A lot of good basketball people in the know seem to think very highly of him. They say he has a great basketball mind, is VERY smart, very connected in the college basketball world, is a tireless worker and a very good recruiter, and a top notch person. Gabe DeArmond at Power Mizzou really likes Gates.
-----------------------------
Source tells me Gates had an opportunity to be South Carolina's coach and turned it down.
Expand signature
Gabe DeArmond
Publisher Power Mizzou
-----------------------------
Dennis Gates
Age: 42
Current position: Cleveland State head coach (third season)
Past head coaching experience: none
Salary: $550,000
Buyout: $600,000
Gates' record during his three seasons at Cleveland State — 50-40 — doesn't jump off the page. Unlike some other candidates who have garnered buzz during Missouri's search, his team isn't playing in the NCAA Tournament.
But Gates has impressed his peers in the Horizon League, at least. Gates got voted as the conference's coach of the year following each of his first two seasons at Cleveland State. Add that to his eight years of experience as an assistant coach under Leonard Hamilton at Florida State, and Gates has apparently piqued the interest of the Missouri administration.
Gates, a Chicago native, played his college basketball at California. During his senior season, the Golden Bears made the 2002 NCAA Tournament. He actually began his coaching career in the NBA as a skill development coach for the Los Angeles Clippers, but he returned to college coaching shortly thereafter. He worked as a graduate assistant both at Marquette and at Florida State.
In 2005, Gates returned to his alma mater as a full-time assistant. He spent two seasons there coaching under his former college coach, Ben Braun. In 2007, he returned to his home state as an assistant at Northern Illinois. He moved on to Nevada for two seasons, then migrated to Tallahassee, where he joined forces with Hamilton.
At Florida State, Gates was credited with some of the recruiting success that allowed the Seminoles to overcome a four-year absence from the NCAA Tournament and emerge as a perennial power. The Seminoles made the Sweet 16 during Gates' first season at Florida State, but averaged just 19.25 wins over the following four seasons. That resulted in some pressure on Hamilton, but due in large part to some positive momentum on the recruiting trail, the administration kept him in place.
That momentum largely stemmed from the commitment of Jonathan Isaac in the class of 2016. The five-star prospect went on to become the ninth selection in the 2017 NBA Draft. The 2016 recruiting class also included future first-round draft pick Mfiondu Kabengele, who Gates was credited with discovering for Florida State, as well as multi-year contributors C.J. Walker and Trent Forrest. The following year, Gates and Florida State inked two more top 150 prospects in four-star RayQuan Gray and five-star M.J. Walker.
That recruiting success translated into a run of four straight NCAA Tournament appearances for Florida State, which would have been five had the COVID-19 pandemic not canceled the 2020 postseason. It also put Gates on the radar for schools searching for a head coach.
In 2019, Cleveland State gave Gates his first head-coaching opportunity. It didn't come without challenges. The Viking program had struggled mightily prior to Gates' arrival, going a combined 40-89 over the prior four seasons. The year before Gates took the job, Cleveland State ranked No. 278 in Division I according to KenPom.
Gates didn't achieve success right away, going 11-21 in 2019-20. But last season, he broke through, leading Cleveland State to a 19-8 overall record and an NCAA Tournament berth. The Vikings won the Horizon League regular season for the first time since 2010 and the league tournament for the first time since 2009. It finished the season ranked 169th by KenPom.
Cleveland State again won the Horizon League regular season this year, although the Vikings lost to eventual tournament champion Wright State in the conference semifinals. The Vikings fell to Xavier by four points on Tuesday in the first round of the NIT, ending their season.
Gates signed a new six-year contract following his trip to the NCAA Tournament last year, but his buyout is just $600,000. In addition to South Carolina, his name been posited by some as a potential replacement for Mike White at Florida.
------------------
Traded messages with a couple college coaches this morning about Gates and the first thing each responded with was his ability to recruit and the amount of connections he has.
Mentioned he coaches with extreme detail in practice.
everyone had good things to say, and said it was a good hire.
--------------------------
Watch his press conference intro at Cleveland State:
-------------------------
Reports: MU men's basketball preparing to hire Cleveland State coach Gates
Per reports, Cleveland State coach Dennis Gates is set to be the new MU men's basketball coach, pending board approval.www.columbiamissourian.com
-----------------------------
I texted with a friend earlier who is well-connected in the recruiting scene and knows a lot of people who know Dennis Gates.
His first thought: “I love Cuonzo, super great guy. But not a killer on the recruiting trail. DG is the complete opposite. He will go to war.”
He added that nearly everyone he talks to agrees that Gates was a big part of saving Hamilton’s job by finding and landing Terrance Mann and Johnathan Isaac.
Also noted that Gates is one of the recruiters Chicago high schools coaches liked most because he didn’t play mind games with their kids. Has developed a really good reputation in that area and across the country in general.
His final note was that Gates will have no fear using the transfer portal and upgrading the roster. He did at Cleveland State in a big way and will bring in talent in a hurry. He added that there are three very good mid-major players he knows of planning to enter the portal and that Gates will have a very good chance because he tried to get them to Cleveland State but they wanted to play at bigger programs.
How much of that all comes to fruition remains to be seen, but he said that everyone he has talked to at the high school and college level agreed that Gates was by far the best candidate of him/Golden/McMahon/English.
---------------------------------
I traded text with Chicago area AAU Coaches I know. Wanted to get his thoughts on Gates. He said Gates "will definitely be able to get players. Has strong Chicago ties." Obviously you can always find someone to say something nice about a new coach, but figured that was worth passing on.
Mitchell Forde
Managing Editor
PowerMizzou.com
Curious how coaching changes in near future. Recruiter of high school student or recruiter of transfers? Think game coaching and getting a team to gel in a year or less might be the most important attributes with all these kids transferring across the country.
Power Missou's Gabe DeArmond shares his thoughts on the Dennis Gates hire:
\
1) By the end of the day today, I expect Missouri's hiring of Dennis Gates will be a formality. At this point, we are waiting on the Board of Curators to put out a notice that they are holding a meeting. We expect that notice to go out some time on Monday with the meeting being held on Tuesday. Once that meeting is called, it's going to happen. As I told someone over the weekend, at most schools I would tell you this was 100% done. At Missouri I will say it's about 98% done simply because I have seen the Curators take over the process multiple times before. But I do not expect that to happen. I fully expect them to rubber stamp Gates' hiring. Once the notice goes out, it's a foregone conclusion.
2) Everyone is welcome to his own opinion. I will not change anyone's opinion. My opinion is that once Mizzou was down to Gates, Todd Golden, Kim English and Matt McMahon (and I am pretty confident these were the four "finalists" and I'll do my search postmortem at some point this week after the Gates hiring is official), to me, there wasn't much difference. They were basically all the same candidate. There were things to really like, things to question, a lot of potential but no sure thing. If you preferred one of the other three to Gates, that's your prerogative. You might be right and you might not be. I said once Mizzou got down to these four, I wasn't going to stomp my feet regardless of which one they hired. I personally viewed Gates, English and Golden as very similar and probably would have put Gates and English a half-tick above Golden. I would have had McMahon fourth on that list. But that's just my personal opinion. Everyone else can have his own.
3) There's a pretty good chance we're going to get to compare three of these four up close and personal. Obviously Florida hired Golden. McMahon's name is in the mix at LSU. I think he could still be a candidate at South Carolina, but I'm not sure which way that one's going. So that's three of the four finalists quite possibly coaching in the SEC next year.
This shows that Missouri's list wasn't some bottom feeding, this program sucks so we can't hire anybody good list. This is the candidate pool non-blueblood high-major programs were looking at this year. The Dana Altman talk was fun for about 24 hours and the Chris Holtmann speculation for about half that, but no hire like that was ever realistic in my opinion. I'm not saying Missouri (or Eddie Fogler on behalf of Missouri) never asked about the possibility. I'm just saying it wasn't realistic. And those bashing Missouri's administration for hiring a guy from Cleveland State would do themselves well to look around and see who the other SEC programs are hiring. They're fairly similar. Georgia might have hired a "more proven" coach, but it did so because the school at which Mike White proved himself didn't really have much interest in seeing more proof of what he is.
You can dislike the Gates hire if you want, but if you're angry Missouri hired a mid-major coach and that shouldn't be happening, you just don't really have a handle on the reality of hiring a new coach at 90% of the schools in the country.
4) Gates, Golden and McMahon (if he ends up in the SEC) are obviously going to long be compared to each other. But there's another comparison that's going to forever be made here and that's Gates to Kim English. At this point, it's pretty safe to say English will be the coach at George Mason next year. How long he stays there remains to be seen. Based on not only logic, but also conversations I've had over the last week, this coaching search was almost certainly Missouri's only chance to hire Kim English (unless Gates leaves Missouri in the next 24 months which seems unlikely). By the time Gates is either good enough to make a move on his own or bad enough to get fired, the same is going to be true of English at Mason. The next time Missouri is looking for a coach, English either will have been good enough that he's gotten a job that will probably keep him from taking the Missouri job or bad enough that Missouri wouldn't consider him.
FOMO isn't a reason to hire someone if you don't believe he is the best candidate so I'm not arguing Missouri should have hired English. I very well might have simply because I don't think there was a significant difference between him, Golden and Gates, but as I said, I'm not going to say Missouri made a big mistake by any means. But the interesting thing to follow will be whether or not English becomes Mizzou's version of Brad Underwood. Underwood is a K-State alum and he coached there through 2012. When Frank Martin left for South Carolina, Underwood went with him, spent one year in Columbia and then became a head coach. The next coaching search Kansas State had came nine years later, by which time Underwood had a significantly better job. The Cats tried, but it seems they were unable to lure him from Illinois back to his alma mater.
The concern here is that English follows a similar career path. I'm not saying he's going to. And, again, I'm not saying you hire a guy you don't believe to be the best candidate for the job simply because you don't think you'll have another chance. But I can guarantee you that Missouri fans are going to forever compare Dennis Gates to Kim English. It will be interesting to follow. Whether Missouri's decision ends up being right or wrong won't be known for quite a few years.
\
1) By the end of the day today, I expect Missouri's hiring of Dennis Gates will be a formality. At this point, we are waiting on the Board of Curators to put out a notice that they are holding a meeting. We expect that notice to go out some time on Monday with the meeting being held on Tuesday. Once that meeting is called, it's going to happen. As I told someone over the weekend, at most schools I would tell you this was 100% done. At Missouri I will say it's about 98% done simply because I have seen the Curators take over the process multiple times before. But I do not expect that to happen. I fully expect them to rubber stamp Gates' hiring. Once the notice goes out, it's a foregone conclusion.
2) Everyone is welcome to his own opinion. I will not change anyone's opinion. My opinion is that once Mizzou was down to Gates, Todd Golden, Kim English and Matt McMahon (and I am pretty confident these were the four "finalists" and I'll do my search postmortem at some point this week after the Gates hiring is official), to me, there wasn't much difference. They were basically all the same candidate. There were things to really like, things to question, a lot of potential but no sure thing. If you preferred one of the other three to Gates, that's your prerogative. You might be right and you might not be. I said once Mizzou got down to these four, I wasn't going to stomp my feet regardless of which one they hired. I personally viewed Gates, English and Golden as very similar and probably would have put Gates and English a half-tick above Golden. I would have had McMahon fourth on that list. But that's just my personal opinion. Everyone else can have his own.
3) There's a pretty good chance we're going to get to compare three of these four up close and personal. Obviously Florida hired Golden. McMahon's name is in the mix at LSU. I think he could still be a candidate at South Carolina, but I'm not sure which way that one's going. So that's three of the four finalists quite possibly coaching in the SEC next year.
This shows that Missouri's list wasn't some bottom feeding, this program sucks so we can't hire anybody good list. This is the candidate pool non-blueblood high-major programs were looking at this year. The Dana Altman talk was fun for about 24 hours and the Chris Holtmann speculation for about half that, but no hire like that was ever realistic in my opinion. I'm not saying Missouri (or Eddie Fogler on behalf of Missouri) never asked about the possibility. I'm just saying it wasn't realistic. And those bashing Missouri's administration for hiring a guy from Cleveland State would do themselves well to look around and see who the other SEC programs are hiring. They're fairly similar. Georgia might have hired a "more proven" coach, but it did so because the school at which Mike White proved himself didn't really have much interest in seeing more proof of what he is.
You can dislike the Gates hire if you want, but if you're angry Missouri hired a mid-major coach and that shouldn't be happening, you just don't really have a handle on the reality of hiring a new coach at 90% of the schools in the country.
4) Gates, Golden and McMahon (if he ends up in the SEC) are obviously going to long be compared to each other. But there's another comparison that's going to forever be made here and that's Gates to Kim English. At this point, it's pretty safe to say English will be the coach at George Mason next year. How long he stays there remains to be seen. Based on not only logic, but also conversations I've had over the last week, this coaching search was almost certainly Missouri's only chance to hire Kim English (unless Gates leaves Missouri in the next 24 months which seems unlikely). By the time Gates is either good enough to make a move on his own or bad enough to get fired, the same is going to be true of English at Mason. The next time Missouri is looking for a coach, English either will have been good enough that he's gotten a job that will probably keep him from taking the Missouri job or bad enough that Missouri wouldn't consider him.
FOMO isn't a reason to hire someone if you don't believe he is the best candidate so I'm not arguing Missouri should have hired English. I very well might have simply because I don't think there was a significant difference between him, Golden and Gates, but as I said, I'm not going to say Missouri made a big mistake by any means. But the interesting thing to follow will be whether or not English becomes Mizzou's version of Brad Underwood. Underwood is a K-State alum and he coached there through 2012. When Frank Martin left for South Carolina, Underwood went with him, spent one year in Columbia and then became a head coach. The next coaching search Kansas State had came nine years later, by which time Underwood had a significantly better job. The Cats tried, but it seems they were unable to lure him from Illinois back to his alma mater.
The concern here is that English follows a similar career path. I'm not saying he's going to. And, again, I'm not saying you hire a guy you don't believe to be the best candidate for the job simply because you don't think you'll have another chance. But I can guarantee you that Missouri fans are going to forever compare Dennis Gates to Kim English. It will be interesting to follow. Whether Missouri's decision ends up being right or wrong won't be known for quite a few years.
There's probably not a ton of difference in the the three. I'm not sure English really qualifies, not enough of a body of work. Had English not played at MU, he wouldn't get a sniff of the job. And that's not a qualifier for hiring a coach. Recent history should show how that can go poorly. Like really poorly. Problem with all of the Colenels drivel, MU didn't really hire a "mid-major" coach. They hired a low major coach, who has a record of 1-20 vs Kenpom top 150 teams. His teams have basically gotten DRILLED when they play anyone with a pulse, especially if that pulse is from a P6 team. And don't give me the garbage that you can't compete at Cleveland St when guys like Billy Clyde are competing with the big boys at a place like Tarleton St. The Horizon league was ranked 21/32 and 27/32 via the RPI the last two years, the years CSU won the league. Goldens teams finished 74, 93, and 23 in Pomeroy while McMahon's have finished 163, 197, 62, 51, 136, 173, and 36. Gates was somewhere in the 300's, high 190s and around 150. That's a pretty big gap to me. The concern for me wouldn't really be the last two Pomeroys, as much as the first one. The Horizon is awful, and just about any coach worth his weight could compete there immediately. That didn't happen. Which tells me he's got to have as good or better players as his opponents (which is again proven by his record vs top 150s), and he's not going to get that at MU. I don't care how good he was as a lead recruiter at FSU. Columbia isn't Tallahassee. Players also don't go to play for the "lead recruiter", that's the same BS Gabe and others tried to sell when they hired Haith. The whole point is they went cheap AND rolled the dice. Kinda what MU does though. Even when they try to pay (Cuonzo) they get it woefully wrong.
Thread 'Another take on Dennis Gates' https://missouri.forums.rivals.com/threads/another-take-on-dennis-gates.159915/
Most important question for any D1 coach right now is do you have the ability to keep a team together (if someone gets upset with lack of playing time)? So many of these athletes are still delusional due to AAU coaches and parents thinking this is just a stop on the way to the NBA. "I'm/He/My kid is one of the 1%, not the other 99% that never get drafted."
Words are words. He's got to win. MU basketball has been a joke for a long time.
Just saw that two MIzzou players have already entered the transfer portal and cited the new hire as the reason for it.
Well, you never want to lose good players, big up side to Brazil but we won 12 games with him, I think the Tigers could do that without him.
how do they know? Brookshire won't go to another power conference team, shouldn't have been at Mizzou. Pickett can play somewhere and Brazil can to, but like I said they won 12 games.
this transfer portal allows you to rebuild quickly, if you can get the players.
If they think Martin should still be the coach, maybe they should look in the mirror.
This is Gates first test, if he's the recruiter everyone believes he is, he'll have to sell himself to the players he wants to keep who have entered the portal and the other players on the current roster. We'll see who he can keep and what kind of talent he can bring into the program. It should be interesting.
