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Implementing Middle School Football to your program.

dschatz78

Active Member
Sep 13, 2012
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I am on a fact finding mission to investigate the pros and cons of adding Middle School Football to our public school program. We have kicked this idea around for years and have had resistance to it in the past. We have had a long standing town organized football program for 20+ years and we have had success in the past with it. However, many schools in our conference/area are moving towards making it a school sponsored program which is causing our program to have to travel to find games due to MSHSAA rules.

I can see both sides of the argument but I do know that some of most successful programs in the state have these programs through their middle schools as opposed to it being a town ran organization.

Some of the issues that we are seeing are:

School sponsored programs means we would have to find school staff to coach teams as opposed to volunteers (mostly dads) coaching the programs. Which in our case can be problematic getting enough staff together to coach these teams from pulling school employees.

We have had decent working relationship between the high school and the town led coaching staff(s), but in reality we cannot make them conform to what we want to do if they dont want to.

That being said, so some years we have groups of freshman that have been mirroring what the high school does and those kids hit the ground running and we have seen in years past that those kids are more acclimated to the offense and the terminology we use as opposed to the groups that do their own thing. It just makes it hard when you have to cover all the basics with the freshman groups that have not been familiarized with what we want to do at the high school level.

We are also seeing our numbers decline somewhat due to having to travel longer distances to find games and obviously athletes are paying their own way (equipment, referees, etc) as opposed to those things being provided by the school. So I would imagine participation would increase potentially,

One of the main resistances to making it a school sponsored program is that we have had 5 head coaches over the past 8 years and the argument from our town organization is that they dont want to conform to the high school offense/defense/scheme/terminology because it has changed so often in the past. I think our new head coach is going to be a guy that will stick for a long time but I can understand the reservations about it.

What I would like to hear from anyone willing to add to the conversation is what are the pros and cons anyone has seen from going one way or the other?

Most powerhouse programs have always had a pipeline from their middle schools to the high school level, but are there any smaller schools that have implemented middle school football and have witnessed the fruits of implementing it?

Has it increased participation, readiness for the high school level, smooth transitioning into understanding schemes and the direction of the program?

Under the premise that we plan on our head coach being around for a while, I think we could see it be a good thing but we need to convince the community of that. Or maybe it doesn't matter. I am just casting a line to see what the opinion from other programs are in the state.

Please add all you care to one way or the other.
 
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middle school feeder is a must. Do you have to have everything exact from top to bottom no. The middle school coach needs to understand the x's and o's of the varsity and treat it is a varsity program.
Film, meetings, summer camps, attend varsity practices and games, help on Friday nights as needed.
Also something else to think about as you move forward would be an introductory weights program at the middle school level
I understand some districts having the pop warner ball up until 9th grade but playing for your school means so much more.
 
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Unless things have changed they had a middle school team but would have separate travel or bantam teams.
 
Washington has had a strong youth football program for many years that started as a Khoury League program.

One problem has been Washington has 2 high schools. Kids go to both. Some parents started a jr program for football in Washington with the idea to better prepare for high school. Not sure that it does or doesn’t. Since it’s parent ran may be hard to keep going in future maybe. Have that problem with baseball and softball.

School based would help solidify that part. But don’t know otherwise. Youth program has struggled with numbers and expanded area that they play. Every thing changes. Sometime good, sometimes not.
 
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I am on a fact finding mission to investigate the pros and cons of adding Middle School Football to our public school program. We have kicked this idea around for years and have had resistance to it in the past. We have had a long standing town organized football program for 20+ years and we have had success in the past with it. However, many schools in our conference/area are moving towards making it a school sponsored program which is causing our program to have to travel to find games due to MSHSAA rules.

I can see both sides of the argument but I do know that some of most successful programs in the state have these programs through their middle schools as opposed to it being a town ran organization.

Some of the issues that we are seeing are:

School sponsored programs means we would have to find school staff to coach teams as opposed to volunteers (mostly dads) coaching the programs. Which in our case can be problematic getting enough staff together to coach these teams from pulling school employees.

We have had decent working relationship between the high school and the town led coaching staff(s), but in reality we cannot make them conform to what we want to do if they dont want to.

That being said, so some years we have groups of freshman that have been mirroring what the high school does and those kids hit the ground running and we have seen in years past that those kids are more acclimated to the offense and the terminology we use as opposed to the groups that do their own thing. It just makes it hard when you have to cover all the basics with the freshman groups that have not been familiarized with what we want to do at the high school level.

We are also seeing our numbers decline somewhat due to having to travel longer distances to find games and obviously athletes are paying their own way (equipment, referees, etc) as opposed to those things being provided by the school. So I would imagine participation would increase potentially,

One of the main resistances to making it a school sponsored program is that we have had 5 head coaches over the past 8 years and the argument from our town organization is that they dont want to conform to the high school offense/defense/scheme/terminology because it has changed so often in the past. I think our new head coach is going to be a guy that will stick for a long time but I can understand the reservations about it.

What I would like to hear from anyone willing to add to the conversation is what are the pros and cons anyone has seen from going one way or the other?

Most powerhouse programs have always had a pipeline from their middle schools to the high school level, but are there any smaller schools that have implemented middle school football and have witnessed the fruits of implementing it?

Has it increased participation, readiness for the high school level, smooth transitioning into understanding schemes and the direction of the program?

Under the premise that we plan on our head coach being around for a while, I think we could see it be a good thing but we need to convince the community of that. Or maybe it doesn't matter. I am just casting a line to see what the opinion from other programs are in the state.

Please add all you care to one way or the other.

The Jr football program I am involved with does many things the the varsity does, but not all. You need basics what your varsity head coach would like to run. Teach the fundamentals at an early age.

Hope all is well David. #westmo
 
Two Organizations that participate in the same league as your junior football teams won state championships this year, Blair Oaks and Helias.

That is a valid point. I guess the question is.....how much does the high school get involved in those programs? Is it not at all, or do they have some input? Or better yet, do the jr programs/coaches follow what the high school does (regardless of what the high school program wants), or do they just do their own thing?
 
The Jr football program I am involved with does many things the the varsity does, but not all. You need basics what your varsity head coach would like to run. Teach the fundamentals at an early age.

Hope all is well David. #westmo

I agree wholeheartedly. I think that we have tried to do some version of that for as long as I have been involved, however there have been a few teams here and there that have somewhat gone out and done their own thing. Some teams have had great success winning 6-8th grade championships but one thing we know for sure is that this doesn't/hasn't transferred to winning conference and district championships in high school on a consistent basis.

I am not saying going the middle school route will either.

I guess the question is.....does having control of your kids from the middle school level translate to having more success at the high school level, or does it simply just make you feel warm and fuzzy on the inside and it doesnt matter.

How many kids at Blair Oaks or Helias play select football as opposed to Middle School football(if its offered)?
 
Here is St Louis there are middle school and select teams. Alot of kids play select. I know my son played "select" up until 6th then played with his school buddies on a school team through 8th grade. The competition wasn't as stiff but he learned the high school play book etc. I ask him if he would play select over MS and he said he is glad he played MS and wouldn't switch.
 
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Blair Oaks and Helias do not offer "Middle School" football as defined by MSHSAA. I hesitate to call it select as they accept anyone that has intentions of attending their respective high schools. In addition, I can't think of a single school district in St. Louis or St. Charles county that offers MSHSAA football for Middle School kids. Primarily/historically offered in more rural areas.

For every school that offers "Middle School" football, as defined by MSHSAA, and has achieved great success, there are exponentially many others per class that do not experience that sustained level success. This really boils down to the "Indian, not the arrow paradigm....." The two aforementioned programs have done a great job of instilling the desire to be Falcons or Crusaders, all the way down to the little guys, and are fully engaged/involved with the coaching staffs of their club teams.
 
Blair Oaks and Helias do not offer "Middle School" football as defined by MSHSAA. I hesitate to call it select as they accept anyone that has intentions of attending their respective high schools. In addition, I can't think of a single school district in St. Louis or St. Charles county that offers MSHSAA football for Middle School kids. Primarily/historically offered in more rural areas.

For every school that offers "Middle School" football, as defined by MSHSAA, and has achieved great success, there are exponentially many others per class that do not experience that sustained level success. This really boils down to the "Indian, not the arrow paradigm....." The two aforementioned programs have done a great job of instilling the desire to be Falcons or Crusaders, all the way down to the little guys, and are fully engaged/involved with the coaching staffs of their club teams.

While I understand that they have no "School Sponsored Program" I am very curious especially in regards to Blair Oaks. Do their town sponsored program coaches take any instruction from the high school program? Does the head coach lay out a roadmap or plan that he'd like to see the town sponsored program to follow so the incoming freshman are more prepared for Falcon Football or are they like brand new baby birds on the first week of practice?

We have a yearly friendly meeting with our jr program and try to give them an any all resources they would like to use that will mirror the high school. Lets face it they're not going to be able to install the high school offense and defense with 5th-8th grade every year. But does Blair Oaks expect incoming freshman to understand the base defensive schemes, or base offensive packages?
 
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Reactions: 25WHEEL
While I understand that they have no "School Sponsored Program" I am very curious especially in regards to Blair Oaks. Do their town sponsored program coaches take any instruction from the high school program? Does the head coach lay out a roadmap or plan that he'd like to see the town sponsored program to follow so the incoming freshman are more prepared for Falcon Football or are they like brand new baby birds on the first week of practice?

We have a yearly friendly meeting with our jr program and try to give them an any all resources they would like to use that will mirror the high school. Lets face it they're not going to be able to install the high school offense and defense with 5th-8th grade every year. But does Blair Oaks expect incoming freshman to understand the base defensive schemes, or base offensive packages?

Yes to base packages.

Remember what your college line coach used to say, "Can't block'em, kick'em in the _____?
 
I am on a fact finding mission to investigate the pros and cons of adding Middle School Football to our public school program. We have kicked this idea around for years and have had resistance to it in the past. We have had a long standing town organized football program for 20+ years and we have had success in the past with it. However, many schools in our conference/area are moving towards making it a school sponsored program which is causing our program to have to travel to find games due to MSHSAA rules.

I can see both sides of the argument but I do know that some of most successful programs in the state have these programs through their middle schools as opposed to it being a town ran organization.

Some of the issues that we are seeing are:

School sponsored programs means we would have to find school staff to coach teams as opposed to volunteers (mostly dads) coaching the programs. Which in our case can be problematic getting enough staff together to coach these teams from pulling school employees.

We have had decent working relationship between the high school and the town led coaching staff(s), but in reality we cannot make them conform to what we want to do if they dont want to.

That being said, so some years we have groups of freshman that have been mirroring what the high school does and those kids hit the ground running and we have seen in years past that those kids are more acclimated to the offense and the terminology we use as opposed to the groups that do their own thing. It just makes it hard when you have to cover all the basics with the freshman groups that have not been familiarized with what we want to do at the high school level.

We are also seeing our numbers decline somewhat due to having to travel longer distances to find games and obviously athletes are paying their own way (equipment, referees, etc) as opposed to those things being provided by the school. So I would imagine participation would increase potentially,

One of the main resistances to making it a school sponsored program is that we have had 5 head coaches over the past 8 years and the argument from our town organization is that they dont want to conform to the high school offense/defense/scheme/terminology because it has changed so often in the past. I think our new head coach is going to be a guy that will stick for a long time but I can understand the reservations about it.

What I would like to hear from anyone willing to add to the conversation is what are the pros and cons anyone has seen from going one way or the other?

Most powerhouse programs have always had a pipeline from their middle schools to the high school level, but are there any smaller schools that have implemented middle school football and have witnessed the fruits of implementing it?

Has it increased participation, readiness for the high school level, smooth transitioning into understanding schemes and the direction of the program?

Under the premise that we plan on our head coach being around for a while, I think we could see it be a good thing but we need to convince the community of that. Or maybe it doesn't matter. I am just casting a line to see what the opinion from other programs are in the state.

Please add all you care to one way or the other.

Junior High football is essential if you want to build a program for sustained success while developing players rather than depending completely on year-to-year talent while hoping for players.
 
While I understand that they have no "School Sponsored Program" I am very curious especially in regards to Blair Oaks. Do their town sponsored program coaches take any instruction from the high school program? Does the head coach lay out a roadmap or plan that he'd like to see the town sponsored program to follow so the incoming freshman are more prepared for Falcon Football or are they like brand new baby birds on the first week of practice?

We have a yearly friendly meeting with our jr program and try to give them an any all resources they would like to use that will mirror the high school. Lets face it they're not going to be able to install the high school offense and defense with 5th-8th grade every year. But does Blair Oaks expect incoming freshman to understand the base defensive schemes, or base offensive packages?


Brad Drehle sat on their JFL board while he was HC at BO. I don't know if Walker did, or if LePage does. I do know that both programs, Blair Oaks and Helias run stripped down versions of their high school offense and defense, basic schemes, packages, etc. All the way down to the fourth grade as a matter of fact. They're great guys, and I'm happy to introduce you to them. Reach out to your youth coach, he'll put you contact with me.
 
Brad Drehle sat on their JFL board while he was HC at BO. I don't know if Walker did, or if LePage does. I do know that both programs, Blair Oaks and Helias run stripped down versions of their high school offense and defense, basic schemes, packages, etc. All the way down to the fourth grade as a matter of fact. They're great guys, and I'm happy to introduce you to them. Reach out to your youth coach, he'll put you contact with me.

I may try to get you in touch with our new Head Coach. He is working on a presentation for the board. I am just trying to help him find different opinions and perspectives. I can see both sides of the argument as I have said before but obviously what you guys are doing is working, clearly...
 
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