How about a "softball run rule" type policy?

[bhunt95]

Say if a team goes up by 42 points game is over.

Two-fold effects
1. Would not have these 60-80 point spreads.

2. May have a secondary effect to level playing field overall long term. Instead of the same teams (aka Lamar, Maryville, Webb City etc) where in blowout games underclassmen get alot of valuable varsity experience. Which makes them experienced players ready to step into starter positions year after year.

 

[Peter Quill]

In districts why can’t they give the one and two seed a buy to ease the suffering?

 

[PCole]

11-man football already has a "run rule" - but it has to be agreed to by both coaches. At halftime, if the margin is 35 points or more, the game can be called. It's just unlike in 8-man (where games are stopped almost all the time under 8-man's 45-point rule), 11-man coaches never use their rule. Damn if I know why, but I got a theory.

 

[cru66]

concessions could take a hit

 

[kaching]

Seen several games where the 42 point mark happened in the first quarter. The band/Pom Pom Halftime coalition would be ticked off

 

[PCole]

Seen several games where the 42 point mark happened in the first quarter. The band/Pom Pom Halftime coalition would be ticked off

Well, since it's well known up this way that I'm not the biggest pom pom/cheer guy, I could not care less if they get ticked off or not. Of course, there is a solution - go ahead and do the band stuff and cheer stuff, and then everyone goes home. Wonder how the 8-man folks handle that?

 

[USArmyMike]

Just have the 7 &8 seed play each other. 1-6 play with 1 & 2 seed get a bye.

 

[r14veer]

Just have the 7 &8 seed play each other. 1-6 play with 1 & 2 seed get a bye.

Not a bad plan.

 

[HoopsTournament]

Well, since it's well known up this way that I'm not the biggest pom pom/cheer guy, I could not care less if they get ticked off or not. Of course, there is a solution - go ahead and do the band stuff and cheer stuff, and then everyone goes home. Wonder how the 8-man folks handle that?

They go ahead and do the band stuff and cheer stuff and then everyone goes home.

However, I have seen more 8-man games not end at 45 points lately than I used to. It is up to the coach trailing.

But there are definitely some 11-man games that should have been called at the half. Maybe they do running clock at 35 and end game at 50.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Ignore the best of seven stuff...but how about this? 3 and 4 get a bye. 1 and 2 get a double bye. Probably makes a bit more sense and rewards folks for their work during the season...That said, I really don't see a problem with 1 playing 8. It seems like a small issue, given how the whole bracket system works. Seems like most any team sport I can think of uses the bracket system where worst plays best in the first round.

 

[bullitpdq68]

How many of these people complaining about the 1-8 and 2-7 match ups are actually coaches for the 7th or 8th ranked teams?

I see what some people are saying about these match ups and kids possible getting hurt in a miss match but then why are you playing the game? We just moved up to class 4 and we are a very young team and playing that district game against Neosho our kids got valuable experience against a decent class 4 team school.

In our conference alone during the regular season you have to play Cassville and Lamar who I would say are just as physical as Neosho, so why not play that game. Almost every school in the COC large was over matched against Webb yet they still played the regular season game, nobody said let's not play Webb and just take a bye during the regular season because we are worried about our kids being over matched and getting hurt, so we want to play a weaker school.

 

[NorthWestBleachers]

I think in all of these games the suffering is already eased by a running clock and little to no scoring in the second half. To cry 'not fair' because another school's underclassmen get game time experience? Sounds awfully 'participation trophy'. Add the bye-week if it 'evens things up' but don't punish success.

 

[30wedge]

How many of these people complaining about the 1-8 and 2-7 match ups are actually coaches for the 7th or 8th ranked teams?

I see what some people are saying about these match ups and kids possible getting hurt in a miss match but then why are you playing the game? We just moved up to class 4 and we are a very young team and playing that district game against Neosho our kids got valuable experience against a decent class 4 team school.

In our conference alone during the regular season you have to play Cassville and Lamar who I would say are just as physical as Neosho, so why not play that game. Almost every school in the COC large was over matched against Webb yet they still played the regular season game, nobody said let's not play Webb and just take a bye during the regular season because we are worried about our kids being over matched and getting hurt, so we want to play a weaker school.

I don't think comparing conference blow outs really does much good for one reason, If a team continually gets blown out in conference (LeBlond) they have the choice to leave the conference and avoid that matchup (unlikely and unfeasible most of the time, I know, but theoretically speaking) whereas a district game, is unavoidable for that school (other than "win more games" like they weren't already trying to do that). Also, Its an easy fix with multiple pros. and only one real con.

1. Shortens the championship season back to 14 games (Still more than most college teams).
2. championship caliber teams no longer run the risk of getting kids hurt in an 86-0 blowout right before they start their run.
3. Teams struggling through a down year get a chance to finish the year on a positive note with a winnable game.


con:
The ONE 5-8 seed to ever make it to the state championship game wouldn't have made it if the top four were taken. If the top six were taken, then the imaginary 7-8 that could make a run no longer can.


To answer your question about coaches, the coaches I know, are all in favor of 1-4 in a bracket, 5v6, 7v8. Not saying all coaches are, but all that Ive talked to about this are. Most of whom have been on both sides of the seeding.

 

[bullitpdq68]

I don't think comparing conference blow outs really does much good for one reason, If a team continually gets blown out in conference (LeBlond) they have the choice to leave the conference and avoid that matchup (unlikely and unfeasible most of the time, I know, but theoretically speaking) whereas a district game, is unavoidable for that school (other than "win more games" like they weren't already trying to do that). Also, Its an easy fix with multiple pros. and only one real con.

1. Shortens the championship season back to 14 games (Still more than most college teams).
2. championship caliber teams no longer run the risk of getting kids hurt in an 86-0 blowout right before they start their run.
3. Teams struggling through a down year get a chance to finish the year on a positive note with a winnable game.


con:
The ONE 5-8 seed to ever make it to the state championship game wouldn't have made it if the top four were taken. If the top six were taken, then the imaginary 7-8 that could make a run no longer can.


To answer your question about coaches, the coaches I know, are all in favor of 1-4 in a bracket, 5v6, 7v8. Not saying all coaches are, but all that Ive talked to about this are. Most of whom have been on both sides of the seeding.

I don't know if alot of schools have a choice like you said in who they play in conference. In our Conference the Newt is getting blown out weekly, not sure what other conference would be an option for them. If they went independent with all the super conferences in our area it would probable leave them out in the cold having to travel very long distances and play anybody and everybody who would put them on .

I guess I just come from a different time, I don't care the seed or who I am playing I just want a chance..because in our case if we played the 8th seed we would have played Mac County again and we had already beat them in a close game a week earlier and I just don't know that our players and fans could get up for that game.

 

[J. Kane]

 

[deacon jones]

I don't know if alot of schools have a choice like you said in who they play in conference. In our Conference the Newt is getting blown out weekly, not sure what other conference would be an option for them. If they went independent with all the super conferences in our area it would probable leave them out in the cold having to travel very long distances and play anybody and everybody who would put them on .

I guess I just come from a different time, I don't care the seed or who I am playing I just want a chance..because in our case if we played the 8th seed we would have played Mac County again and we had already beat them in a close game a week earlier and I just don't know that our players and fans could get up for that game.

Not sure what time you come from, but during my time, there weren't any 86-0 blowouts like there are now. There are a lot of factors that go into it (larger disparity between the haves and have not programs, explosive offenses, coaches that can't resist running the score up to show what an offensive genius they are, etc). But the fact is, 30 years ago, 35-0 was a blowout. 15 years ago, 55-0 was a blowout. Now, 75-0 is a blowout. And that is WITH a running clock rule! Those kind of scores are killing some programs. No kid wants to keep playing when they get beat by scores like that. And they aren't. Programs folding, teams cancelling JV and freshman schedules, forfeiting games, etc. I understand that there are a lot of reasons numbers may be down a lot of places, but getting publicly humiliated every week is probably one of them.

 

[Peter Quill]

Just have the 7 &8 seed play each other. 1-6 play with 1 & 2 seed get a bye.

That's a great idea!

 

[bullitpdq68]

Not sure what time you come from, but during my time, there weren't any 86-0 blowouts like there are now. There are a lot of factors that go into it (larger disparity between the haves and have not programs, explosive offenses, coaches that can't resist running the score up to show what an offensive genius they are, etc). But the fact is, 30 years ago, 35-0 was a blowout. 15 years ago, 55-0 was a blowout. Now, 75-0 is a blowout. And that is WITH a running clock rule! Those kind of scores are killing some programs. No kid wants to keep playing when they get beat by scores like that. And they aren't. Programs folding, teams cancelling JV and freshman schedules, forfeiting games, etc. I understand that there are a lot of reasons numbers may be down a lot of places, but getting publicly humiliated every week is probably one of them.

To give you an idea I watched Joplin Parkwood in 1980 beat down some really good teams and score 653 and only allowed 33. That year Parkwood beat three teams by some huge margins, 83-0, 63-0 and 62-0, and the only time the team failed to score at least 30 points was in the state title game. I think one game a team just waived the white flag. So to answer your question back in 1980 I saw an 83-0 blowout . A lot of teams for two years were humiliated by Joplin Parkwood. I have yet to see a team today that dominate.

 

[Duck_walk]

For about the 10th year in a row, how about we play 10 regular season games and then the season is over? Literally 1/2 of all teams finish the season with a W instead of 1 happy team and 63 losers in each class.
All the lessons we want to teach via football can be taught in 10 games.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

But the fact is, 30 years ago, 35-0 was a blowout. 15 years ago, 55-0 was a blowout. Now, 75-0 is a blowout.

I don't think that's true at all. There were some extremely lopsided scores I can remember from HS in late 80s and early 90s. You hear and read a lot more about them now because of social media and message boards. People have a platform to voice their displeasure now.

 

[bullitpdq68]

I don't think that's true at all. There were some extremely lopsided scores I can remember from HS in late 80s and early 90s. You hear and read a lot more about them now because of social media and message boards. People have a platform to voice their displeasure now.

Back then men coached football and parents stayed out of it, You did not just quit you played the game until the end and you played who was on your schedule and did not whine about how much bigger they were. You didn't get a drink of water in practice until the head coach heard some pads pop, you had two a days.

Now days kids coaches and fans don't want to play a game if they think it will be a blow out. They want to go out on a positive note. We missed the play offs because of points several times. I love the system we have now play the game win or lose.

 

[HoopsTournament]

Ignore the best of seven stuff...but how about this? 3 and 4 get a bye. 1 and 2 get a double bye. Probably makes a bit more sense and rewards folks for their work during the season...That said, I really don't see a problem with 1 playing 8. It seems like a small issue, given how the whole bracket system works. Seems like most any team sport I can think of uses the bracket system where worst plays best in the first round.

I like it. It would push the season farther into December, but only for a few schools. I think the point system needs to be improved so teams that are winless don’t end up 4th. Maybe cap on points increased beyond 13.

 

[deacon jones]

To give you an idea I watched Joplin Parkwood in 1980 beat down some really good teams and score 653 and only allowed 33. That year Parkwood beat three teams by some huge margins, 83-0, 63-0 and 62-0, and the only time the team failed to score at least 30 points was in the state title game. I think one game a team just waived the white flag. So to answer your question back in 1980 I saw an 83-0 blowout . A lot of teams for two years were humiliated by Joplin Parkwood. I have yet to see a team today that dominate.

I didn't ask any questions.

 

[deacon jones]

I don't think that's true at all. There were some extremely lopsided scores I can remember from HS in late 80s and early 90s. You hear and read a lot more about them now because of social media and message boards. People have a platform to voice their displeasure now.

I'm sure there's anecdotal evidence to prove me wrong. But I have little doubt that the average number of points scored, as well as the average point spread in games, is not anywhere close.

 

[deacon jones]

Back then men coached football and parents stayed out of it, You did not just quit you played the game until the end and you played who was on your schedule and did not whine about how much bigger they were. You didn't get a drink of water in practice until the head coach heard some pads pop, you had two a days.

Now days kids coaches and fans don't want to play a game if they think it will be a blow out. They want to go out on a positive note. We missed the play offs because of points several times. I love the system we have now play the game win or lose.

Aaaaaand here comes the manly-man, we were tough back then b.s.

 

[NorthWestBleachers]

I think you can argue toughness of coaches now vs. toughness of coaches then if you'd like ... but, do you REALLY want to argue whether or not the kids are as tough??? Parents certainly aren't. I think Bullit makes valid points even if we don't like them. I recently watched a debacle of a youth team ... kids performed lazily and copped attitude throughout, parents brutal to coaches, coaches let kids mow over them etc. Yes, it was youth. But, those are the high school parents and players of the future. Those particular youth??? Unless lightning strikes .... or, they were a fluke weak class? they'll be on the losing side of a few 65-0 ballgames. And, they'll deserve it.

 

[deacon jones]

I think you can argue toughness of coaches now vs. toughness of coaches then if you'd like ... but, do you REALLY want to argue whether or not the kids are as tough??? Parents certainly aren't. I think Bullit makes valid points even if we don't like them. I recently watched a debacle of a youth team ... kids performed lazily and copped attitude throughout, parents brutal to coaches, coaches let kids mow over them etc. Yes, it was youth. But, those are the high school parents and players of the future. Those particular youth??? Unless lightning strikes .... or, they were a fluke weak class? they'll be on the losing side of a few 65-0 ballgames. And, they'll deserve it.

I have no doubt parents are a bigger pain in the ass, kids are more used to being coddled, and youth sports culture is a good display of everything that is wrong with society. Those things all make me heave. I just think that justifying the playoff system by saying kids need to toughen up and take their ass whippings like a man is a weak argument. And old coaches depriving athletes of water? That's irrelevant to the discussion, and proves not how tough the coaches or players were as much as how ignorant they were.

 

[kaching]

For about the 10th year in a row, how about we play 10 regular season games and then the season is over? Literally 1/2 of all teams finish the season with a W instead of 1 happy team and 63 losers in each class.
All the lessons we want to teach via football can be taught in 10 games.

blasphemy

 

[NorthWestBleachers]

I have no doubt parents are a bigger pain in the ass, kids are more used to being coddled, and youth sports culture is a good display of everything that is wrong with society. Those things all make me heave. I just think that justifying the playoff system by saying kids need to toughen up and take their ass whippings like a man is a weak argument. And old coaches depriving athletes of water? That's irrelevant to the discussion, and proves not how tough the coaches or players were as much as how ignorant they were.

I think we mostly agree.
I'm open to changes in the playoffs ... I agree that 1s don't really NEED to be playing 8s. I'm only thinking that there will still be lopsided games and at that point, it really IS just life. Completely agree that denying water shouldn't have ever been a measure of toughness! But, I think I had a coach or two who thought so!

 

[bullitpdq68]

I didn't ask any questions.

I was just proving a point.....

 

[bullitpdq68]

Aaaaaand here comes the manly-man, we were tough back then b.s.

My point times are different now, back then we put in hard work never questioned our coaches or authority for that matter, for the most part, and you never ran home to tell mom and dad about how mistreated you were, you earned things. Today kids tend to not want to put in the work, but still expect some sort of reward just for showing up, and put in half @$$ participation, and if you don't praise them... well then they go home and tell mom and dad how bad they got it and we all know what happens next.

Don't get me wrong not saying that that everything back then was correct just seems sometimes we have gone way to far the other way. Heck even in school you can take a test until you get the score you want.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

My point times are different now, back then we put in hard work never questioned our coaches or authority for that matter, for the most part, and you never ran home to tell mom and dad about how mistreated you were, you earned things. Today kids tend to not want to put in the work, but still expect some sort of reward just for showing up, and put in half @$$ participation, and if you don't praise them... well then they go home and tell mom and dad how bad they got it and we all know what happens next.

Don't get me wrong not saying that that everything back then was correct just seems sometimes we have gone way to far the other way. Heck even in school you can take a test until you get the score you want.

I don't disagree to an extent. Problem is, I'm not so sure it's the kids that have changed. Parents, admins, and all the other adults have changed their expectations. Kids typically follow the expectations, especially if it's a consistent message.

 

[bullitpdq68]

I don't disagree to an extent. Problem is, I'm not so sure it's the kids that have changed. Parents, admins, and all the other adults have changed their expectations. Kids typically follow the expectations, especially if it's a consistent message.

Eagles, you are correct. Maybe we as parents and Adults are the issue.

 

[J. Kane]

Eagles, you are correct. Maybe we as parents and Adults are the issue.

 

[NorthWestBleachers]

Heard Mike Rowe say "We are the clouds from which the snowflakes have fallen" ..... ouch .....

 

[J.Moxon]

Heard Mike Rowe say "We are the clouds from which the snowflakes have fallen" ..... ouch .....

The Mox likes that

 

[sw5890]

Maybe I'm wrong but my perception is that in the past, teams were more evenly spread across the spectrum from good to bad. Sure you would have the occasional beat down but it wasn't nearly as commonplace as it is now. I remember thinking WC's 42-14 win at state in '97 was off the charts, but scores like that are pretty much expected on a weekly basis now, not just at Webb City but several other teams around here.

These days it seems like there are two distinct groups - the good teams which represent maybe 20% and everyone else. The gap between the good 20% and everyone else seems further apart than ever.

 

[deacon jones]

My point times are different now, back then we put in hard work never questioned our coaches or authority for that matter, for the most part, and you never ran home to tell mom and dad about how mistreated you were, you earned things. Today kids tend to not want to put in the work, but still expect some sort of reward just for showing up, and put in half @$$ participation, and if you don't praise them... well then they go home and tell mom and dad how bad they got it and we all know what happens next.

Don't get me wrong not saying that that everything back then was correct just seems sometimes we have gone way to far the other way. Heck even in school you can take a test until you get the score you want.

Agree on the parents, etc. But the commitment asked of athletes today is way, way, way more than it was a couple of decades ago or more. Football used to start in August. Now it starts after Christmas break. And every sport is the same way. I think it's ironic when people reference the off-season in a sport. As in, "he didn't come to anything in the off-season," or "When does 'off-season' start?" There is no off season.
Your grandpa's coach may have toughened them up, but he didn't ask them to put in the commitment that we ask of kids today. When the season was over, your grandpa's coach went and coached basketball. When that was over, he went and coached track. And when that was over, he mowed or painted houses. And in August, started football again. This "old days" stuff wears me out, because it's just not altogether true. I'm not saying the current situation is better or worse- they do become better football players. But it's not at all the same as the old days.

 

[Mitsurugi san]

Just have the 7 &8 seed play each other. 1-6 play with 1 & 2 seed get a bye.

Absolutely Brilliant!!! ...but also oddly familiar

 

[Mitsurugi san]

Agree on the parents, etc. But the commitment asked of athletes today is way, way, way more than it was a couple of decades ago or more. Football used to start in August. Now it starts after Christmas break. And every sport is the same way. I think it's ironic when people reference the off-season in a sport. As in, "he didn't come to anything in the off-season," or "When does 'off-season' start?" There is no off season.
Your grandpa's coach may have toughened them up, but he didn't ask them to put in the commitment that we ask of kids today. When the season was over, your grandpa's coach went and coached basketball. When that was over, he went and coached track. And when that was over, he mowed or painted houses. And in August, started football again. This "old days" stuff wears me out, because it's just not altogether true. I'm not saying the current situation is better or worse- they do become better football players. But it's not at all the same as the old days.

The truest statement in this thread, IMO; WAAAAY more is asked of high school and youth athletes today then it was 20 years ago.