Germany has a lot of guns

[Duck_walk]

They have had two mass shootings, 2002, 2009. How they have prevented further mass killings. Gun ownership is a privilege to be earned, not a right.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/0...smtyp=cur&_r=0&referer=http://t.co/7X8FwAMSM4

 

[wcfanfourever]

They have had two mass shootings, 2002, 2009. How they have prevented further mass killings. Gun ownership is a privilege to be earned, not a right.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/0...smtyp=cur&_r=0&referer=http://t.co/7X8FwAMSM4

That's pretty much how the Nazi leadership looks at it alright.

Over here we have the pesky constitution that says its a right for all, not a privilege for the few.

funny the Germans had mass shootings numbering in the millions not that long ago, leave it to liberals to side with that bunch

 

[Skeeter_McCormack]

You realize German is no longer synonymous with Nazi right? Hasn't been for 60+ years.

 

[sbdude]

Interesting article. It appears the difference between there and US is:

1. Training class before allowed to own a gun
2. Must have an adequate storage space
3. Governmental agency (ATF?) that can do random checks of your storage
4. If under age 25 must have psych exam
5. All guns registered.

I'm assuming that once you have passed your training class, you don't need to do it again for additional purchases. Psych exam only if under 25 is interesting.

I am definitely a pro-gun guy but I could live with that. Training is always a good idea as is safe storage. Personally I don't mind registration because I really don't think we will ever get as far as confiscation in my lifetime.

Even with the very low rate of gun violence there, people are lobbying to eliminate guns completely in Germany.

Also, an interesting factoid mentioned was that gun homicides in the US in 2010 was almost half what it was in 1981. Wondering what the current rate is and if it's still trending down or has gone up?

 

[Duck_walk]

That's pretty much how the Nazi leadership looks at it alright.

Over here we have the pesky constitution that says its a right for all, not a privilege for the few.

funny the Germans had mass shootings numbering in the millions not that long ago, leave it to liberals to side with that bunch

So you are saying you didn't read the article.

 

[Expect2Win]

. Wondering what the current rate is and if it's still trending down or has gone up?

Honestly, that is not as easy to find as I thought it would be. I did a google search and nothing really comes up. You could go through all the data from the feds, but it would be extremely time consuming.

 

[wcfanfourever]

So you are saying you didn't read the article.

It kind of lost all credibility when you said owning a gun was a privilege and not a right. Something about the Second Amendment to our Constitution ( in the Bill of RIGHTS) kind of makes it clear it is the right of all citizens to keep and bear arms.

 

[Duck_walk]

It kind of lost all credibility when you said owning a gun was a privilege and not a right. Something about the Second Amendment to our Constitution ( in the Bill of RIGHTS) kind of makes it clear it is the right of all citizens to keep and bear arms.

You mean the thing about "regulated militia"?
You might want to google "regulated".

 

[Neutron Monster]

Interesting article. It appears the difference between there and US is:

1. Training class before allowed to own a gun
2. Must have an adequate storage space
3. Governmental agency (ATF?) that can do random checks of your storage
4. If under age 25 must have psych exam
5. All guns registered.

I'm assuming that once you have passed your training class, you don't need to do it again for additional purchases. Psych exam only if under 25 is interesting.

I am definitely a pro-gun guy but I could live with that. Training is always a good idea as is safe storage. Personally I don't mind registration because I really don't think we will ever get as far as confiscation in my lifetime.

Even with the very low rate of gun violence there, people are lobbying to eliminate guns completely in Germany.

Also, an interesting factoid mentioned was that gun homicides in the US in 2010 was almost half what it was in 1981. Wondering what the current rate is and if it's still trending down or has gone up?

Fbi violent crime index year to date was close to flat but it was down from 2010 to 2014.

I don't have insight into homicide change ytd but it continued to decline.

This goes to my posts in the other thread that America has become a much safer country over the last couple decades.

 

[Neutron Monster]

It kind of lost all credibility when you said owning a gun was a privilege and not a right. Something about the Second Amendment to our Constitution ( in the Bill of RIGHTS) kind of makes it clear it is the right of all citizens to keep and bear arms.

he can advocate for a change in the constitution, and many would argue gun registries and many of those things are already legal. Some states currently mandate registering guns and those registries have not been thrown out by the courts.

 

[Neutron Monster]

Honestly, that is not as easy to find as I thought it would be. I did a google search and nothing really comes up. You could go through all the data from the feds, but it would be extremely time consuming.

FBI tracks this.

CDC tracks mortality experience (all causes of death). You can find it there.

I believe fivethirtyeight just did something about the YTD on homicides in big cities as well. I'm on my phone so I can't look it up.

 

[Neutron Monster]

They have had two mass shootings, 2002, 2009. How they have prevented further mass killings. Gun ownership is a privilege to be earned, not a right.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/0...smtyp=cur&_r=0&referer=http://t.co/7X8FwAMSM4

My German relatives are gun owners. They take the responsibility very seriously.

Germany also has far stricter drivers license laws. They expect people to have a higher level of training when operating equipment that can kill others.

 

[wcfanfourever]

You mean the thing about "regulated militia"?
You might want to google "regulated".

The Supreme Court has ruled that the Second amendment deals with two separate issues. The first is the rights of the States to have a standing militia. The Second is the rights of the PEOPLE to KEEP and BEAR arms.

The two issues are not connected according to the SCOTUS, for once I agree with them

 

[Neutron Monster]

The Supreme Court has ruled that the Second amendment deals with two separate issues. The first is the rights of the States to have a standing militia. The Second is the rights of the PEOPLE to KEEP and BEAR arms.

The two issues are not connected according to the SCOTUS, for once I agree with them

Not remotely true. Why aren't machine guns legal then? Have you even read the heller opinion?

 

[Veer2Eternity]

The Supreme Court has ruled that the Second amendment deals with two separate issues. The first is the rights of the States to have a standing militia. The Second is the rights of the PEOPLE to KEEP and BEAR arms.

The two issues are not connected according to the SCOTUS, for once I agree with them

Do you just make stuff up like another of our droolers?

 

[BlizzardX]

A mantra of the Dems platform is constantly repeating what a great country the USA is, but how wonderful all the other countries are compared to the USA and we should be doing things the best way like Scandinavia social programs or Germany's gun control. We can find our own solution. We don't need to look at the failed Euro's.

 

[wcfanfourever]

Not remotely true. Why aren't machine guns legal then? Have you even read the heller opinion?[/QUOTE

Obviously you are ignorant of the law. Machine guns are completely legal for private citizens under federal law and in almost all states.

Simply go to a ClassIII gun dealer, buy your machine gun. Then fill out the BATF paperwork for your new machine gun, pay the $300 application fee then wait about 4-6 months for it to process.

After you are approved and you have your sticker go pick up your AK or Uzi and have fun!!!!

 

[BlizzardX]

My German relatives are gun owners. They take the responsibility very seriously.

Germany also has far stricter drivers license laws. They expect people to have a higher level of training when operating equipment that can kill others.

In the USA you need a high level of training to teach Kindergarten. In China, they know it's dumb to train a teacher to teach Kindergarten, thus acceptable people of good character can teach K class.
We've lost our common sense in the USA. The values taught by mom and dad are not there. We try to use Gov. to solve all of our problems.
I'd like to make a law that stupid irresponsible people can't re-produce.

 

[Neutron Monster]

A mantra of the Dems platform is constantly repeating what a great country the USA is, but how wonderful all the other countries are compared to the USA and we should be doing things the best way like Scandinavia social programs or Germany's gun control. We can find our own solution. We don't need to look at the failed Euro's.

Your definition of failure is warped when our rate of gun violence is multiples higher than theirs and our health care system costs 25%-50% as much with no improvement in health outcomes.

America is better than other countries in many ways but it falls woefully short relative to nearly all other developed nations at controlling gun violence and health care spending. There are things other countries do that clearly work better than us.

These are facts, not opinions.

 

[Neutron Monster]

RE: Machine guns - not true at the state level in all cases and those bans have been upheld

The point is such a law is still legal

 

[Duck_walk]

In the USA you need a high level of training to teach Kindergarten. In China, they know it's dumb to train a teacher to teach Kindergarten, thus acceptable people of good character can teach K class.
We've lost our common sense in the USA. The values taught by mom and dad are not there. We try to use Gov. to solve all of our problems.
I'd like to make a law that stupid irresponsible people can't re-produce.

OK. First you post that we don't need to look at better ways European countries are doing things because we are so great and then you post we have lost our way and China is smarter than us because Kindergarten teacher training isn't important. That seems a bit of a contradiction.

Perhaps as a country we should look at what all other countries are doing and steal their ideas which is what great coaches and teachers always do.

 

[BlizzardX]

OK. First you post that we don't need to look at better ways European countries are doing things because we are so great and then you post we have lost our way and China is smarter than us because Kindergarten teacher training isn't important. That seems a bit of a contradiction.

Perhaps as a country we should look at what all other countries are doing and steal their ideas which is what great coaches and teachers always do.

Not a contradiciton but I see your point. We've lost our common sense. We don't need extensive training to teach K. China is smarter than us. China is not in Europe. Another post claimed Germany has extensive training to get a driver's liscence and a gun and that a gun is a privilege in Germany. I posted we have extensive training to teach K as an example that we need neither, look at China ( we've lost our way). “If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.”
― Thomas Jefferson
My main point is, let's look at American ingenuity to solve our own problem. Presidential hopefuls like Sanders and Clinton point to social programs successful in smaller countries and that the USA should bottle their ideas. One poster claimed Germany control's is guns better, and we should copy there program.( I'm not going into Germany's history of horror that set historical precendence for this).
The bottom line is, we can't trust our Gov to preserve the constitution for law abiding citizens. The left want's to ultimately register and eventually confiscate the guns of law abiding citizens to somehow prevent mass shootings. We lose freedom because of the idiot's out there that shoot and kill innocent people. I'm willing to give up some of my freedom if I could trust the Gov. for we can do more to prevent mentally ill people from killing folks. All of us can agree we simply can't trust the crooks in Washington.
The Constitution was written over 200 years ago. It's an imperfect document, women sufferage and slavery ex. The author's could not have forseen the state of the countries ( people ) in 2015.
"If there is a possibility of founding a perfectly free government, and giving it permanent duration, it must be raised upon the pure maxims, and supported by the undecaying practice, of that religion, which breathes ”peace on earth, and good will to men.” That religion [Christianity] is perfectly republican . . . . it is calculated to humble the pride and allay the discontents of men. . . . It restrains the magistrate from oppression, and the subject from revolt . . . . it secures a perfect equality of rights, by enjoining a discharge of all social duties, and a strict subordination to law. The universal prevalence of that religion, in its true spirit, would banish tyranny from the earth". Noah Webster

 

[3Rfan]

Not a contradiciton but I see your point. We've lost our common sense. We don't need extensive training to teach K. China is smarter than us. China is not in Europe. Another post claimed Germany has extensive training to get a driver's liscence and a gun and that a gun is a privilege in Germany. I posted we have extensive training to teach K as an example that we need neither, look at China ( we've lost our way). “If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.”
― Thomas Jefferson
My main point is, let's look at American ingenuity to solve our own problem. Presidential hopefuls like Sanders and Clinton point to social programs successful in smaller countries and that the USA should bottle their ideas. One poster claimed Germany control's is guns better, and we should copy there program.( I'm not going into Germany's history of horror that set historical precendence for this).
The bottom line is, we can't trust our Gov to preserve the constitution for law abiding citizens. The left want's to ultimately register and eventually confiscate the guns of law abiding citizens to somehow prevent mass shootings. We lose freedom because of the idiot's out there that shoot and kill innocent people. I'm willing to give up some of my freedom if I could trust the Gov. for we can do more to prevent mentally ill people from killing folks. All of us can agree we simply can't trust the crooks in Washington.
The Constitution was written over 200 years ago. It's an imperfect document, women sufferage and slavery ex. The author's could not have forseen the state of the countries ( people ) in 2015.
"If there is a possibility of founding a perfectly free government, and giving it permanent duration, it must be raised upon the pure maxims, and supported by the undecaying practice, of that religion, which breathes ”peace on earth, and good will to men.” That religion [Christianity] is perfectly republican . . . . it is calculated to humble the pride and allay the discontents of men. . . . It restrains the magistrate from oppression, and the subject from revolt . . . . it secures a perfect equality of rights, by enjoining a discharge of all social duties, and a strict subordination to law. The universal prevalence of that religion, in its true spirit, would banish tyranny from the earth". Noah Webster

Who is saying they want to confiscate guns in this country? I have never heard a politician on either side of the aisle say anything even close to that. We have to register our cars and they don't confiscate them, what makes you think registering guns means they will come after them?

 

[BlizzardX]

Who is saying they want to confiscate guns in this country? I have never heard a politician on either side of the aisle say anything even close to that. We have to register our cars and they don't confiscate them, what makes you think registering guns means they will come after them?

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations. James Madison
You are so wrong.
No politician will claim that registration leads to confiscation but it's the ultmate goal. The Nanny State is for your own good. For it will provide revenue and bigger Gov. Gov. wants to tax us for owning a gun through registration. Gun grabbers can create a whole new branch of bureaucracy paid for by gun owners.
You never hear politicians suggest Prosecuting the parents of these idiot's that commit mass shootings, make it a felony neglect on the parents. Zero tolerance. Speedy trials and executions.
You never hear politicians say these things either: Confiscate and register all video games that involve or glorify shooting, killing, stabbing, hitting and blowing up (games). Sensor and enforce viewing of all movies,TV shows, on the internet and all other places that glorify guns in Hollywood movies. Register and confiscate all music that glorifies the use of violence and guns. But yet this type of media influence in our culture, our younsters, and hasn't helped but further poision the unstable minds that commit these crimes. Anything goes now in TV, Movies, Music and all other media. Talk about a loaded gun. Geez.
This type of legislation would be a huge infringement on our rights. The same type of infringement that gun owners could suffer because of the behavior of mad men.

 

[3Rfan]

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations. James Madison
You are so wrong.
No politician will claim that registration leads to confiscation but it's the ultmate goal. The Nanny State is for your own good. For it will provide revenue and bigger Gov. Gov. wants to tax us for owning a gun through registration. Gun grabbers can create a whole new branch of bureaucracy paid for by gun owners.
You never hear politicians suggest Prosecuting the parents of these idiot's that commit mass shootings, make it a felony neglect on the parents. Zero tolerance. Speedy trials and executions.
You never here politicians say these things either: Confiscate and register all video games that involve or glorify shooting, killing, stabbing, hitting and blowing up (games). Sensor and enforce viewing of all movies and TV shows that glorify guns in Hollywood movies. Register and confiscate all music that glorifies the use of violence and guns. But yet this type of imedia influence in our culture hasn't helped but further posion the unstable minds that commit these crimes. Anything goes now in TV, Movies, Music and all other media. Talk about a loaded gun. Geez.

Unlike all those TV and movie westerns where someone got shot every night? Gunsmoke might have been one of the most violent shows on TV back in the day. Miss Kitty was always getting abused by some lowlife outlaw and Matt had to shoot em to save her.

 

[BlizzardX]

Unlike all those TV and movie westerns where someone got shot every night? Gunsmoke might have been one of the most violent shows on TV back in the day. Miss Kitty was always getting abused by some lowlife outlaw and Matt had to shoot em to save her.

Really. Great Grandpa watched that show. Who Knew.

 

[BlizzardX]

Really. Great Grandpa watched that show. Who Knew.

Unlike all those TV and movie westerns where someone got shot every night? Gunsmoke might have been one of the most violent shows on TV back in the day. Miss Kitty was always getting abused by some lowlife outlaw and Matt had to shoot em to save her.

Great Grandpa's generation would have grown up twisted too with all the crap we see today on a daily basis. I prefer meth making chemsitry teaching drug dealers. The difference is I know it's make believe. Like gramps.

 

[Skeeter_McCormack]

Great Grandpa's generation would have grown up twisted too with all the crap we see today on a daily basis.

So your solution is what exactly? Or are you just content to complain?

 

[BlizzardX]

So your solution is what exactly? Or are you just content to complain?

You're late, no comment.

 

[ag-man]

Unlike all those TV and movie westerns where someone got shot every night? Gunsmoke might have been one of the most violent shows on TV back in the day. Miss Kitty was always getting abused by some lowlife outlaw and Matt had to shoot em to save her.

Seriously, the old "Blame Gunsmoke" defense,..... You are better than this 3R, I watched Gunsmoke my whole childhood, they taught love, respect for animals, respect for the poor, the downtrodden and homeless. When old Matt absolutlely HAD to shoot the bad guy, ( instead of manhandling him) , there wasn't even any blood.

Versus today's shows, that show rape, vulgar language and nudity.

Next you will want to blame Green Acres for people pigeonholing blondes as bad coffee makers.

 

[BlizzardX]

The only legislation that will reduce gun violence, reduce suicides, is massive mandatory gun buy backs and confiscation. 3R is correct,the politicians are not proposing drastic measures.

 

[3Rfan]

Seriously, the old "Blame Gunsmoke" defense,..... You are better than this 3R, I watched Gunsmoke my whole childhood, they taught love, respect for animals, respect for the poor, the downtrodden and homeless. When old Matt absolutlely HAD to shoot the bad guy, ( instead of manhandling him) , there wasn't even any blood.

Versus today's shows, that show rape, vulgar language and nudity.

Next you will want to blame Green Acres for people pigeonholing blondes as bad coffee makers.

Ag I didn't blame Gunsmoke for anything. Just the opposite, I spoke of a TV show and all the cowboy shows and movies where people got shot just about every episode and movie yet I didn't go around killing people. Heck I've seen all the Dirty Harry movies several times and I still didn't go out and start shooting people and they were pretty bloody.