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Veer2Eternity

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Apr 17, 2005
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Pretty good synopsis with facts to this point.

Sorry all, this is long. I know its probably been covered here, but I wanted to share the message I wrote, which I think shows most of what we know. To be clear, this is not a discussion about if Hillary would have done it better. Its about holding the POTUS accountable, not rewriting history.

Some insist this is simply a 'witch hunt'. They may be right. But, in case they arent, I took the data from syndicated publications and did my best to remove bias and commentary while staying on topic and factual.

We know, definitely and factually, all of the following -- Two members of Trump's admin have been removed from office for their implications with Russia. A third is being pressed to resign. And Russia has, in some capacity, meddled with the general election, with preference shown for Trump.

Records show that the first of Trump's admin to resign was his National Chairman of the Presidential Campaign, Paul Manafort. He (and by proxy, Trump) had repeated contact with Russian Intelligence officials around the same time that Trump was speaking glowingly about Putin and getting along with Russia. Manafort also had under-the-table payments from Ukraine totaling $12.7M for secret lobbying efforts in the US and stashing those payments in shell-companies abroad, for which he is currently under investigation. He is also implicated in links to underhanded dealings in Russia with Putin's long-time friend for $18M. None of this is on the books and all of this Manafort denies.

Michael Flynn, Trump's National Security Adviser, resigned amid political fallout because he lied about having conversations with Russia's ambassador to Washington. He had multiple conversations, some of which were wire tapped by US intelligence, that confirmed he was talking to the ambassador concerning new sanctions the Obama administration had imposed on Russia dealing with their interference with the 2016 election, and more importantly, how Trump was willing to lift (why though?). It is worth noting that people outside of the Executive Branch are prohibited from making foreign policy. Flynn denied this and insisted he had no contact with Russia, of course, until it was later proven that he did. At which time he tendered his resignation.

Trump, during a campaign speech in July '16 said “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” actually encouraging a hack. And Russia, unsurprisingly, listened and hacked the Democratic National Convention. They then leaked information that, among some that was found to be true, some was completely fabricated in order to sway the election. This is only one layer of their involvement, however. The Director of National Intelligence, who represents 17 intelligence agencies and the Dept of Homeland Security jointly stated that Russia had influenced the election. The published and declassified report said:

"We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the U.S. presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the U.S. democratic process, denigrate Secretary Hillary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump. We have high confidence in these judgments."

Trump then rejected the intelligence report, suggesting that Democrats were simply "reacting to their election loss" and further attacked US Intelligence agencies. He makes no mention nor does he take responsibility for his words which may have spurred the whole thing.

Jeff Sessions, while he was a surrogate for President-elect Trump, met with the Russian ambassador on two different occasions -- in July and September of 2016. The latter meeting, in his Senate offices in September, was during what intelligence has called "the height of the Russian cyber campaign" to influence the election. It is worth mentioning that Sessions was a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee and it is not illegal to have contact with the Ambassador to Russia. What is illegal, however, is lying under oath during his confirmation, also known as perjury. He was asked on two different occasions whether he or anyone in the Trump campaign/administration had been in contact with Russia, and he said no. He even clarified that he, himself, was a surrogate of Trump and he had not had any contact, which was a lie. To have a private meeting with Russia's ambassador while being a Trump surrogate seems suspicious. As Sen Claire McCaskill has said (and later clarified), she has been a member of the same committee for 10 years and has not once had a private meeting with the Russian Ambassador. She clarified that she had been in meetings with the entire committee and Russian diplomats, but never a private meeting. Regardless of that, the point of the matter is, he lied under oath. Bill Clinton was impeached because of his perjury charge.

Despite all of this which was written and published on Feb 14 by the NY Times, and several times more since, Trump insists that none of his campaign had any contact with Russia before the election. Another blatant lie, which has been disproved with actual facts and evidence. The question remains, however, why would 4 people including Trump lie about contact with Russia (that we know of) when each lie risks their job and ability to govern?

And after all of this, some still think it is a simply "Witch Hunt"? Now Im not saying there is certainly something nefarious underneath. But the country should be demanding a non-partisan investigation into it. Those that claim witch hunt would almost certainly advocate a 7th investigation into Hillary's emails... but dont you think there should be ONE about Trump and his administration concerning their ties to Russia??
 
Pretty good synopsis with facts to this point.

Sorry all, this is long. I know its probably been covered here, but I wanted to share the message I wrote, which I think shows most of what we know. To be clear, this is not a discussion about if Hillary would have done it better. Its about holding the POTUS accountable, not rewriting history.

Some insist this is simply a 'witch hunt'. They may be right. But, in case they arent, I took the data from syndicated publications and did my best to remove bias and commentary while staying on topic and factual.

We know, definitely and factually, all of the following -- Two members of Trump's admin have been removed from office for their implications with Russia. A third is being pressed to resign. And Russia has, in some capacity, meddled with the general election, with preference shown for Trump.

Records show that the first of Trump's admin to resign was his National Chairman of the Presidential Campaign, Paul Manafort. He (and by proxy, Trump) had repeated contact with Russian Intelligence officials around the same time that Trump was speaking glowingly about Putin and getting along with Russia. Manafort also had under-the-table payments from Ukraine totaling $12.7M for secret lobbying efforts in the US and stashing those payments in shell-companies abroad, for which he is currently under investigation. He is also implicated in links to underhanded dealings in Russia with Putin's long-time friend for $18M. None of this is on the books and all of this Manafort denies.

Michael Flynn, Trump's National Security Adviser, resigned amid political fallout because he lied about having conversations with Russia's ambassador to Washington. He had multiple conversations, some of which were wire tapped by US intelligence, that confirmed he was talking to the ambassador concerning new sanctions the Obama administration had imposed on Russia dealing with their interference with the 2016 election, and more importantly, how Trump was willing to lift (why though?). It is worth noting that people outside of the Executive Branch are prohibited from making foreign policy. Flynn denied this and insisted he had no contact with Russia, of course, until it was later proven that he did. At which time he tendered his resignation.

Trump, during a campaign speech in July '16 said “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” actually encouraging a hack. And Russia, unsurprisingly, listened and hacked the Democratic National Convention. They then leaked information that, among some that was found to be true, some was completely fabricated in order to sway the election. This is only one layer of their involvement, however. The Director of National Intelligence, who represents 17 intelligence agencies and the Dept of Homeland Security jointly stated that Russia had influenced the election. The published and declassified report said:

"We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the U.S. presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the U.S. democratic process, denigrate Secretary Hillary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump. We have high confidence in these judgments."

Trump then rejected the intelligence report, suggesting that Democrats were simply "reacting to their election loss" and further attacked US Intelligence agencies. He makes no mention nor does he take responsibility for his words which may have spurred the whole thing.

Jeff Sessions, while he was a surrogate for President-elect Trump, met with the Russian ambassador on two different occasions -- in July and September of 2016. The latter meeting, in his Senate offices in September, was during what intelligence has called "the height of the Russian cyber campaign" to influence the election. It is worth mentioning that Sessions was a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee and it is not illegal to have contact with the Ambassador to Russia. What is illegal, however, is lying under oath during his confirmation, also known as perjury. He was asked on two different occasions whether he or anyone in the Trump campaign/administration had been in contact with Russia, and he said no. He even clarified that he, himself, was a surrogate of Trump and he had not had any contact, which was a lie. To have a private meeting with Russia's ambassador while being a Trump surrogate seems suspicious. As Sen Claire McCaskill has said (and later clarified), she has been a member of the same committee for 10 years and has not once had a private meeting with the Russian Ambassador. She clarified that she had been in meetings with the entire committee and Russian diplomats, but never a private meeting. Regardless of that, the point of the matter is, he lied under oath. Bill Clinton was impeached because of his perjury charge.

Despite all of this which was written and published on Feb 14 by the NY Times, and several times more since, Trump insists that none of his campaign had any contact with Russia before the election. Another blatant lie, which has been disproved with actual facts and evidence. The question remains, however, why would 4 people including Trump lie about contact with Russia (that we know of) when each lie risks their job and ability to govern?

And after all of this, some still think it is a simply "Witch Hunt"? Now Im not saying there is certainly something nefarious underneath. But the country should be demanding a non-partisan investigation into it. Those that claim witch hunt would almost certainly advocate a 7th investigation into Hillary's emails... but dont you think there should be ONE about Trump and his administration concerning their ties to Russia??
 
Exactly what laws are being broken when any US Citizen talks to a Russian citizen??

As long as you, as a private citizen are not attempting to make US foreign policy no law has been broken has it???
 
The answer will be no because Hillary is a witch and the so called Pres. is a Pub.
 
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My standard response to cut and paste articles are to ask what the political beliefs of the writer might be.
 
My standard response to cut and paste articles are to ask what the political beliefs of the writer might be.

Makes it easier to disregard things that don't jibe with your world view huh?

Just say "eh he's probably liberal, must be wrong."

No wonder you never learn anything.
 
My standard response to cut and paste articles are to ask what the political beliefs of the writer might be.
Most if not all of the post seems pretty factual to me. What do you find in the post to be false
I am a lib though
 
Makes it easier to disregard things that don't jibe with your world view huh?

Just say "eh he's probably liberal, must be wrong."

No wonder you never learn anything.

Considering that 90% of the media is liberal it doesn't take very much to figure out what angle they are always going to come from.
 
Most if not all of the post seems pretty factual to me. What do you find in the post to be false
I am a lib though

Can anyone answer my simple question

Exactly what laws are being broken when any US Citizen talks to a Russian citizen??

As long as you, as a private citizen are not attempting to make US foreign policy no law has been broken has it???
 
Can anyone answer my simple question

Exactly what laws are being broken when any US Citizen talks to a Russian citizen??

As long as you, as a private citizen are not attempting to make US foreign policy no law has been broken has it???
Sessions clearly lied under oath to Congress no matter what the breitbarts say.
 
Sessions clearly lied under oath to Congress no matter what the breitbarts say.
No, he clearly did not


Sessions clearly lied under oath to Congress no matter what the breitbarts say.

Here is the question he was asked

"Have you been in contact with anyone connected to any part of the Russian government about the 2016 election, either before or after election day?"

He was not asked about being in contact with Russian officials for other matters, he could have answered no to the question truthfully, but have been in contact 100's of times with Russian govt officials on other matters

CNN opinion piece pretty much said all of this crap is nothing but a waste of time and a witch hunt
 
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No, he clearly did not




Here is the question he was asked

"Have you been in contact with anyone connected to any part of the Russian government about the 2016 election, either before or after election day?"

He was not asked about being in contact with Russian officials for other matters, he could have answered no to the question truthfully, but have been in contact 100's of times with Russian govt officials on other matters

CNN opinion piece pretty much said all of this crap is nothing but a waste of time and a witch hunt
He was asked twice. He lied. Im sorry you can't accept that. You would be one that would scream for investigations.
 
He was asked twice. He lied. Im sorry you can't accept that. You would be one that would scream for investigations.
Do you have any proof (or anyone else for that matter) that he discussed the election with the Russians he had contact with ???

If so it's a slam dunk,,and if the proof was there Sessions would already be gone
 
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Pretty good synopsis with facts to this point.

Sorry all, this is long. I know its probably been covered here, but I wanted to share the message I wrote, which I think shows most of what we know. To be clear, this is not a discussion about if Hillary would have done it better. Its about holding the POTUS accountable, not rewriting history.

Some insist this is simply a 'witch hunt'. They may be right. But, in case they arent, I took the data from syndicated publications and did my best to remove bias and commentary while staying on topic and factual.

We know, definitely and factually, all of the following -- Two members of Trump's admin have been removed from office for their implications with Russia. A third is being pressed to resign. And Russia has, in some capacity, meddled with the general election, with preference shown for Trump.

Records show that the first of Trump's admin to resign was his National Chairman of the Presidential Campaign, Paul Manafort. He (and by proxy, Trump) had repeated contact with Russian Intelligence officials around the same time that Trump was speaking glowingly about Putin and getting along with Russia. Manafort also had under-the-table payments from Ukraine totaling $12.7M for secret lobbying efforts in the US and stashing those payments in shell-companies abroad, for which he is currently under investigation. He is also implicated in links to underhanded dealings in Russia with Putin's long-time friend for $18M. None of this is on the books and all of this Manafort denies.

Michael Flynn, Trump's National Security Adviser, resigned amid political fallout because he lied about having conversations with Russia's ambassador to Washington. He had multiple conversations, some of which were wire tapped by US intelligence, that confirmed he was talking to the ambassador concerning new sanctions the Obama administration had imposed on Russia dealing with their interference with the 2016 election, and more importantly, how Trump was willing to lift (why though?). It is worth noting that people outside of the Executive Branch are prohibited from making foreign policy. Flynn denied this and insisted he had no contact with Russia, of course, until it was later proven that he did. At which time he tendered his resignation.

Trump, during a campaign speech in July '16 said “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” actually encouraging a hack. And Russia, unsurprisingly, listened and hacked the Democratic National Convention. They then leaked information that, among some that was found to be true, some was completely fabricated in order to sway the election. This is only one layer of their involvement, however. The Director of National Intelligence, who represents 17 intelligence agencies and the Dept of Homeland Security jointly stated that Russia had influenced the election. The published and declassified report said:

"We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the U.S. presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the U.S. democratic process, denigrate Secretary Hillary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump. We have high confidence in these judgments."

Trump then rejected the intelligence report, suggesting that Democrats were simply "reacting to their election loss" and further attacked US Intelligence agencies. He makes no mention nor does he take responsibility for his words which may have spurred the whole thing.

Jeff Sessions, while he was a surrogate for President-elect Trump, met with the Russian ambassador on two different occasions -- in July and September of 2016. The latter meeting, in his Senate offices in September, was during what intelligence has called "the height of the Russian cyber campaign" to influence the election. It is worth mentioning that Sessions was a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee and it is not illegal to have contact with the Ambassador to Russia. What is illegal, however, is lying under oath during his confirmation, also known as perjury. He was asked on two different occasions whether he or anyone in the Trump campaign/administration had been in contact with Russia, and he said no. He even clarified that he, himself, was a surrogate of Trump and he had not had any contact, which was a lie. To have a private meeting with Russia's ambassador while being a Trump surrogate seems suspicious. As Sen Claire McCaskill has said (and later clarified), she has been a member of the same committee for 10 years and has not once had a private meeting with the Russian Ambassador. She clarified that she had been in meetings with the entire committee and Russian diplomats, but never a private meeting. Regardless of that, the point of the matter is, he lied under oath. Bill Clinton was impeached because of his perjury charge.

Despite all of this which was written and published on Feb 14 by the NY Times, and several times more since, Trump insists that none of his campaign had any contact with Russia before the election. Another blatant lie, which has been disproved with actual facts and evidence. The question remains, however, why would 4 people including Trump lie about contact with Russia (that we know of) when each lie risks their job and ability to govern?

And after all of this, some still think it is a simply "Witch Hunt"? Now Im not saying there is certainly something nefarious underneath. But the country should be demanding a non-partisan investigation into it. Those that claim witch hunt would almost certainly advocate a 7th investigation into Hillary's emails... but dont you think there should be ONE about Trump and his administration concerning their ties to Russia??
It's too long, and you posted it, and I didn't read it. Since I know you can't spell or think it must be drivel.
 
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Do you have any proof (or anyone else for that matter) that he discussed the election with the Russians he had contact with ???

If so it's a slam dunk,,and if the proof was there Sessions would already be gone

The thing is, there is zero proof ANYTHING illegal or even improper has been done. There could be a load of stuff but if there was, they wouldn't be chasing every rumor out there hoping beyond hope.
 
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The thing is, there is zero proof ANYTHING illegal or even improper has been done. There could be a load of stuff but if there was, they wouldn't be chasing every rumor out there hoping beyond hope.
This would be a lot more persuasive if Trump didn't suck up to Putin for months, they hadn't gutted the Republican platform on Russia/Ukraine, his campaign manager and original NSA pick weren't formerly on the payroll of the Russian government, etc.

That is not to say there is a definitive tie, you're right, but the amount of smoke is much higher than you could find for any recent nominee of either party, and no other nominee was the beneficiary of such overt support from the Russian government.
 
Can anyone answer my simple question

Exactly what laws are being broken when any US Citizen talks to a Russian citizen??

As long as you, as a private citizen are not attempting to make US foreign policy no law has been broken has it???

Conspiring with someone to hack the DNC would be a crime.
 
Do you have any proof (or anyone else for that matter) that he discussed the election with the Russians he had contact with ???

If so it's a slam dunk,,and if the proof was there Sessions would already be gone

Do you have proof no laws were broken.
THATS WHY THERE NEEDS TO BE AN INVESTIGATION. Why is this so hard for you? How can anyone be against investigating the Russians? Who in the world thinks allowing the Russians to get away with election interference is OK? WTF dude. Five different people needed to meet with the Russian? There is smoke everywhere. Let's look for a fire.
 
That is the point right there. Very little of what the press reports anymore is true .

They have lost all credibility with any objective person.

Objective like stating the Dow would drop below 5k just because Obama was elected?

Get outta here with that crap.

He lied. I love how all your faux Christians forgive because they're repubs. Trump is a sickening excuse for a man but he's all yours.
 
Do you have proof no laws were broken.
THATS WHY THERE NEEDS TO BE AN INVESTIGATION. Why is this so hard for you? How can anyone be against investigating the Russians? Who in the world thinks allowing the Russians to get away with election interference is OK? WTF dude. Five different people needed to meet with the Russian? There is smoke everywhere. Let's look for a fire.

GOPers are completely enthralled by their media propagandists..they can't even think for themselves. It's sad but that's how a POS like trump gets elected. Stupid people.
 
There have been zero charges filed. That would happen if laws were broken. Just look at all the noise over trumped up suspicions.
Do you think there should be an independent investigation into Russia's influence in our election?
 
Do you think there should be an independent investigation into Russia's influence in our election?

Should we also investigate the United States influence in other countries elections?

Instead of looking to shift blame on the Russians, maybe the Democrats should simply look into the mirror. They set themselves up to fail by stacking the deck so a seriously flawed candidate would win a primary she very easily could have lost.

The reason the Dems lost was because of Clinton and her lack of character, not the Russians.
 
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Should we also investigate the United States influence in other countries elections?
.

Yes we should. We aren't the 'good guys' here. We stick our nose into people's business and wonder why they 'hate' us. It's not for our freedom fries. It's because neocon zionists run our country.
 
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Do you think there should be an independent investigation into Russia's influence in our election?
It is a waste of money and distracts from the legislation that needs to be done right now.
That said, an investigation will yield nothing so, I don't care either way. We know Russia hacked Podestas e-mail and released info damaging to Hillary. That isn't why Michigan went for Trump.
 
It is a waste of money and distracts from the legislation that needs to be done right now.
That said, an investigation will yield nothing so, I don't care either way. We know Russia hacked Podestas e-mail and released info damaging to Hillary. That isn't why Michigan went for Trump.

Where were you during the Benghazi hearings? You had your Pom Pons out cheering for "an investigation".
 
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It is a waste of money and distracts from the legislation that needs to be done right now.
That said, an investigation will yield nothing so, I don't care either way. We know Russia hacked Podestas e-mail and released info damaging to Hillary. That isn't why Michigan went for Trump.

The gop sure wasnt doing that the last 8 years. They just obstructed and investigated. Shoes on the other foot now and the crying from repubs is loud.
 
Where were you during the Benghazi hearings? You had your Pom Pons out cheering for "an investigation".

Must have lost my memory on that. Can you pull up a quote on that? She was guilty of all accusations......no investigation needed.
 
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