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DirtyDan17

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Dec 12, 2018
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How many immigrants are living in the U.S. illegally?

There were 12 million immigrants living in the country illegally as of January 2015, according to the most recent estimate from the Department of Homeland Security. The estimates from two independent groups are similar: The Pew Research Center estimates the number at 10.7 million in 2016, and the Center for Migration Studies says there were 10.8 million people in 2016 living in the U.S. illegally.

That would be about 3.3 percent to 3.7 percent of the total U.S. population in 2016 or 2015.

All three groups use Census Bureau data on the foreign-born or noncitizens and adjust to subtract the legal immigrant population.

DHS estimated that the growth of the illegal immigrant population had slowed considerably, saying the population increased by 470,000 per year from 2000 to 2007, but only by 70,000 per year from 2010 to 2015.

CMS found a decline in the undocumented population, and specifically those from Mexico, of about 1 million since 2010. And the Pew Research Center found a peak of 12.2 million in the population in 2007, and a decline since.



All three groups find Mexicans make up the majority of the undocumented population — 55 percent in 2015, according to DHS — but the number and share of Mexicans among this population has been declining in recent years.

How many people are crossing the border illegally?There’s no official measure of how many people succeed in illegally crossing the border, but authorities use the number of apprehensions to gauge changes in illegal immigration.

Those numbers, which come from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection, are for fiscal years and date back to 1960.



That’s a 76 percent decline in the number of apprehensions between the peak in 2000 and 2018.

We can also look at how the figures have changed over the past several years.

Under the Obama administration, the yearly apprehensions on the Southwest border declined by 35 percent from calendar year 2008, the year before President Obama took office, through the end of 2016. In President Donald Trump’s first full year in office, the apprehensionsdeclined by 43 percent, from calendar year 2016 to 2017.

On a monthly basis, the apprehensions decreased significantly during the first six months of Trump’s tenure and then began to rise. The number was actually higher in November (the most recent month for which the U.S. Customs and Border Protection has published figures) than it was when Trump was sworn in.



What about people overstaying their visas?
As border apprehensions have declined, estimates show a growing proportion of the undocumented population legally entered the country on visas but overstayed the time limits on those visas. A Center for Migration Studies report estimates that 44 percent of those in living in the U.S. illegally in 2015 were visa overstays. That’s up from an estimated 41 percent in 2008.

(Another way of saying that, for people who want to argue is 66 percent of illegals came across the border...66 is bigger than 44 right?)

The CMS report, written by Robert Warren, a former director of the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service’s statistics division, says 65 percent of net arrivals — those joining the undocumented population — from 2008 to 2015 were visa overstays.

There are no solid, long-term estimates of the visa overstay problem. When we wrote about this issue in August 2015, DHS told us it didn’t have statistics on visa overstays. But DHS has since issued some estimates. It said that about 629,000 people on visas who were expected to leave in fiscal year 2016 hadn’t done so by the end of that fiscal year (that’s out of 50.4 million arrivals).

That number, however, had declined to about 545,000 by January 2017, DHS said, noting that it expected the estimate to “shift over time as additional information is reported.” CMS disputedthe DHS estimate, finding that the number was too high.

For fiscal year 2017, DHS estimated in a report released in August that there were 606,926 suspected in-country overstays, a rate of 1.15 percent of expected departures.
 
Ok. So detail your plan.

This paragraph here tells me Obama was doing a hell of a job on this issue and any "emergency" we have now is all on Trump.

DHS estimated that the growth of the illegal immigrantpopulation had slowed considerably, saying the population increased by 470,000 per year from 2000 to 2007, but only by 70,000 per year from 2010 to 2015.
 
Ok. So detail your plan.

This paragraph here tells me Obama was doing a hell of a job on this issue and any "emergency" we have now is all on Trump.

DHS estimated that the growth of the illegal immigrantpopulation had slowed considerably, saying the population increased by 470,000 per year from 2000 to 2007, but only by 70,000 per year from 2010 to 2015.

1. Build the wall.

2. Monitor the wall electronically (drones, cameras, etc)

3. Don't detain anyone, do not pull them further into the country. Turn them away. If they're South or Central American, seeking asylum, explain to them they just crossed through all of Mexico, turn around and seek asylum there first.

4. Invest in Latin America. Give them the resources to make their own countries worth living in. Passive actual involvement.

5. Create a simpler path to citizenship. But cap the number of unskilled immigrants we let in.
 
Ok. So detail your plan.

This paragraph here tells me Obama was doing a hell of a job on this issue and any "emergency" we have now is all on Trump.

DHS estimated that the growth of the illegal immigrantpopulation had slowed considerably, saying the population increased by 470,000 per year from 2000 to 2007, but only by 70,000 per year from 2010 to 2015.

According to the chart, the number of illegals was soaring under Clinton, dropped dramatically under Bush, and flattened out under Obama.
 
According to the chart, the number of illegals was soaring under Clinton, dropped dramatically under Bush, and flattened out under Obama.
The chart I see shows it climbs considerably under Bush before it dropped off and stayed pretty much the same under Obama. So this must be Trump's problem that he keeps trying blame on Obama and dems in general. Not to mention the Obama administration had more folks deported that anyone for quite sometime, so for those that came in many also went back out. It seems to be a big mess under Trump so I reckon he should shut the hell up about others allowing open borders. :confused:
 
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The chart I see shows it climbs considerably under Bush before it dropped off and stayed pretty much the same under Obama. So this must be Trump's problem that he keeps trying blame on Obama and dems in general. Not to mention the Obama administration had more folks deported that anyone for quite sometime, so for those that came in many also went back out. It seems to be a big mess under Trump so I reckon he should shut the hell up about others allowing open borders. :confused:

But to address the entire reason for this post...

Would you say there is a problem, given that this many illegals are crossing the border?
 
But to address the entire reason for this post...

Would you say there is a problem, given that this many illegals are crossing the border?
There is IF IF IF any of those numbers are true. But the current numbers for a month are the highest since 2008! Look who was in office the last time it was this high? Then look at what happened under 8 years of Obama, plus he had way more deported than Bush so many of them were sent back home. I guess all the illegals coming in now are just trying to get here to help Trump MAGA! :p
 
There is IF IF IF any of those numbers are true. But the current numbers for a month are the highest since 2008! Look who was in office the last time it was this high? Then look at what happened under 8 years of Obama, plus he had way more deported than Bush so many of them were sent back home. I guess all the illegals coming in now are just trying to get here to help Trump MAGA! :p

The numbers within the range ARE true. No, there isnt an exact number, that's why we have to offer a range. The overarching point is there are at LEAST 12 million illegals in the United States. At LEAST.

You get that offering a range doesnt invalidate the claim right? Because they're covering bases and saying 12 to 18 million doesnt mean they have no clue and it's actually only like 200.

The source is credible, the numbers are best possible estimate based on surveys (not just a guess based on how they feel), so what is your issue.

It's a problem, you've admitted as much. Now build the wall.
 
The numbers within the range ARE true. No, there isnt an exact number, that's why we have to offer a range. The overarching point is there are at LEAST 12 million illegals in the United States. At LEAST.

You get that offering a range doesnt invalidate the claim right? Because they're covering bases and saying 12 to 18 million doesnt mean they have no clue and it's actually only like 200.

The source is credible, the numbers are best possible estimate based on surveys (not just a guess based on how they feel), so what is your issue.

It's a problem, you've admitted as much. Now build the wall.
How about taking the deal the dems offered that would have covered the border in multiple ways including MORE agents to SEE the freakin border with a man every mile.
I have never said there is only 200, or any other number except the 12 million that is THE most common number we ALL hear.
 
How about taking the deal the dems offered that would have covered the border in multiple ways including MORE agents to SEE the freakin border with a man every mile.
I have never said there is only 200, or any other number except the 12 million that is THE most common number we ALL hear.

Because that's a stopgap measure. Build the wall AND do all that.

You could eliminate approximately 65% of illegal immigration into the country.
 
Because that's a stopgap measure. Build the wall AND do all that.

You could eliminate approximately 65% of illegal immigration into the country.
You already have a lot of wall, heck Obama had several hundred miles of wall built. Fix the the rest of it with the modern day equipment available and help stop drugs too. A wall does NOT stop trucks, vans and cars that cross legally with drugs in them and you KNOW that's how most of it gets in at the southern border. More comes in other places on boats and planes. Don't be so dang hard headed about a wall when that will do very little to stop the drugs.
 
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You already have a lot of wall, heck Obama had several hundred miles of wall built. Fix the the rest of it with the modern day equipment available and help stop drugs too. A wall does NOT stop trucks, vans and cars that cross legally with drugs in them and you KNOW that's how most of it gets in at the southern border. More comes in other places on boats and planes. Don't be so dang hard headed about a wall when that will do very little to stop the drugs.

That's where all that technology comes in. In that fence Obama put up there are hundreds of miles open. Close the gaps.

The wall gives agents enough time to respond and keep illegals on their side of the border. You know, the side where our tax dollars aren't spent taking care of them.
 
Because that's a stopgap measure. Build the wall AND do all that.

You could eliminate approximately 65% of illegal immigration into the country.
I thought it would solve the problem — PERIOD! Now we’re at 65% stoppage? Make up your mind.
 
You already have a lot of wall, heck Obama had several hundred miles of wall built. Fix the the rest of it with the modern day equipment available and help stop drugs too. A wall does NOT stop trucks, vans and cars that cross legally with drugs in them and you KNOW that's how most of it gets in at the southern border. More comes in other places on boats and planes. Don't be so dang hard headed about a wall when that will do very little to stop the drugs.
Again, makes too much sense. Facts sure do cloud things for some.
 
I thought it would solve the problem — PERIOD! Now we’re at 65% stoppage? Make up your mind.

It would stop the problem at the border. It won't account for the 45% that overstay their visa.

But if you can cut 12 million illegals down to 5.5 million, that's incredible progress.
 
Again, makes too much sense. Facts sure do cloud things for some.

They sure do, took me 4 days of hitting you over the head with facts for you to barely admit that there's a problem at the border. I'm sure that was painful for you.
 
They sure do, took me 4 days of hitting you over the head with facts for you to barely admit that there's a problem at the border. I'm sure that was painful for you.
That’s funny, Dan. You made me admit to nothing. If you thought I was serious that you were right about my “admissions” last night, maybe it’s me who should be asking you what school you went to. Lol. You’re a funny dude.
 
That’s funny, Dan. You made me admit to nothing. If you thought I was serious that you were right about my “admissions” last night, maybe it’s me who should be asking you what school you went to. Lol. You’re a funny dude.

Lol then you have no business talking to anyone about not being able to accept facts.
 
Lol then you have no business talking to anyone about not being able to accept facts.
I didn’t know you were the “you have no business talking to anyone” police.

Facts are, Dan, the president doesn’t deal in facts. His numbers constantly change, his “facts” are never consistent and he relies on those who will buy what he is selling. He’s always been a conman, is now and more than likely, will continue to be. He opened himself up for investigation after investigation by becoming a presidential candidate and refused to supply the nation with his tax returns. What is there to hide if he’s so clean? Then he hopes that the weak-minded, who seldom support privacy rights, to suddenly become a supporter of his privacy. Although presidential candidates have been doing this for 40+ years.

Then he is accused of groping women. He even brags about it to Billy Bush. He then asks the feeble minded to “look the other way” but wants any Dem to resign from their job at the first hint of a rumor.

He then tries to make a deal with a foreign power to build a tower in their country for his benefit and theirs. Then he asks his brainwashed followers to ignore what those who have followed the money are saying because he’s an honest man and started his career with “a small million dollar loan” from his papa. Then he is able to convince those who cant think for themselves that he is looking out for the middle class.

Then he comes up with his latest fairy tale that the problems of the middle class is that brown hombre from south of the boarder is taking your job and they’re coming here in droves. “Let’s build a wall with my name attached to it so you will forever remember my name.” He has those who have trouble spelling TRUMP believing all our problems will be solved with this monument built in his name.

Those, my friend, are the facts. Open your eyes and your mind and you’ll see what I see. Or has that chastity belt that Trump has locked on your head disallowing you?
 
I didn’t know you were the “you have no business talking to anyone” police.

Facts are, Dan, the president doesn’t deal in facts. His numbers constantly change, his “facts” are never consistent and he relies on those who will buy what he is selling. He’s always been a conman, is now and more than likely, will continue to be. He opened himself up for investigation after investigation by becoming a presidential candidate and refused to supply the nation with his tax returns. What is there to hide if he’s so clean? Then he hopes that the weak-minded, who seldom support privacy rights, to suddenly become a supporter of his privacy. Although presidential candidates have been doing this for 40+ years.

Then he is accused of groping women. He even brags about it to Billy Bush. He then asks the feeble minded to “look the other way” but wants any Dem to resign from their job at the first hint of a rumor.

He then tries to make a deal with a foreign power to build a tower in their country for his benefit and theirs. Then he asks his brainwashed followers to ignore what those who have followed the money are saying because he’s an honest man and started his career with “a small million dollar loan” from his papa. Then he is able to convince those who cant think for themselves that he is looking out for the middle class.

Then he comes up with his latest fairy tale that the problems of the middle class is that brown hombre from south of the boarder is taking your job and they’re coming here in droves. “Let’s build a wall with my name attached to it so you will forever remember my name.” He has those who have trouble spelling TRUMP believing all our problems will be solved with this monument built in his name.

Those, my friend, are the facts. Open your eyes and your mind and you’ll see what I see. Or has that chastity belt that Trump has locked on your head disallowing you?

Im not getting my facts from Trump, I'm getting them from:

-The Center for Migration Studies
-Department of Homeland Security
-Pew Research Center
-U.S. Customs and Border Protection
-the Census Bureau

And FACTS are there are at least 12 million illegals in this country. If a wall and all the tech would more than cut that number in half and by proxy reduce some drug smuggling, then I'm all for it.

You can't, with any sincerity or facts of your own, say that a wall wouldn't reduce illegal immigration. None of what you posted contains any facts, just a huge appeal to emotion.

The FACT is, I'm the only one in this conversation providing facts. You're just spouting off because you dont like the president.

I would want a wall regardless of who was asking for it, because the FACTS say we need it.
 
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Facts are, Dan, the president doesn’t deal in facts. His numbers constantly change, his “facts” are never consistent and he relies on those who will buy what he is selling. He’s always been a conman, is now and more than likely, will continue to be. He opened himself up for investigation after investigation by becoming a presidential candidate and refused to supply the nation with his tax returns. What is there to hide if he’s so clean? Then he hopes that the weak-minded, who seldom support privacy rights, to suddenly become a supporter of his privacy. Although presidential candidates have been doing this for 40+ years.

Then he is accused of groping women. He even brags about it to Billy Bush. He then asks the feeble minded to “look the other way” but wants any Dem to resign from their job at the first hint of a rumor.

He then tries to make a deal with a foreign power to build a tower in their country for his benefit and theirs. Then he asks his brainwashed followers to ignore what those who have followed the money are saying because he’s an honest man and started his career with “a small million dollar loan” from his papa. Then he is able to convince those who cant think for themselves that he is looking out for the middle class.

Then he comes up with his latest fairy tale that the problems of the middle class is that brown hombre from south of the boarder is taking your job and they’re coming here in droves. “Let’s build a wall with my name attached to it so you will forever remember my name.” He has those who have trouble spelling TRUMP believing all our problems will be solved with this monument built in his name.

Those, my friend, are the facts. Open your eyes and your mind and you’ll see what I see. Or has that chastity belt that Trump has locked on your head disallowing you?

The Strawman Fallacy involves misrepresenting an argument to make it easier to attack. For example, someone in opposition to your argument refutes it, often irrelevantly, by claiming that you are actually arguing in favor of something else. In this case, the ‘something else’ is the strawman the opposition has purposefully built in order to make it easier to refute your stance, even though the ‘something else’ was never argued for in the first place. Simply, a strawman is built so it can be knocked down.

I'm not and never have been talking about Trump. If you want to debate illegal immigration and a wall, you really need to leave Trump at the door, because that has NOTHING to do with my argument.
 
The Strawman Fallacy involves misrepresenting an argument to make it easier to attack. For example, someone in opposition to your argument refutes it, often irrelevantly, by claiming that you are actually arguing in favor of something else. In this case, the ‘something else’ is the strawman the opposition has purposefully built in order to make it easier to refute your stance, even though the ‘something else’ was never argued for in the first place. Simply, a strawman is built so it can be knocked down.

I'm not and never have been talking about Trump. If you want to debate illegal immigration and a wall, you really need to leave Trump at the door, because that has NOTHING to do with my argument.

You mean like saying they are taking our guns, our planes, our cows, etc etc etc.
They want to give everyone free college, free cars, free cell phones, free everything.
Your TV wont work if its not windy that day.
Those type of straw men? That is the modus operandi of the republican party.
It keeps us from having any actual discussion of any important issue.
It makes me so friggin angry I would like to beat them to a pulp.
 
Everything starts at the top.
Why should any of us believe government stats when the president of the United States does not believe any gov info that goes against his desired facts?

You can post stats until the sun dont shine, we will just take Putin's word for it instead.
 
You mean like saying they are taking our guns, our planes, our cows, etc etc etc.
They want to give everyone free college, free cars, free cell phones, free everything.
Your TV wont work if its not windy that day.
Those type of straw men? That is the modus operandi of the republican party.
It keeps us from having any actual discussion of any important issue.
It makes me so friggin angry I would like to beat them to a pulp.

If lib legislation exists that says all those things, and that is the content of the discussion, then no, that's not a strawman.

Inserting appeals to emotion (another logical fallacy) over Trump (who no one is discussing) instead of addressing the content of the cited sources, THAT is strawman 101.

I couldn't give a fiddler's fart about Trump the man, that's not what I'm discussing, that's not where my interest lies. Deflecting to try to make this about Trump IS logically fallacious. Period.

If you aren't going to address the issues at the border or present facts about illegal immigration, dont waste your time with a response.
 
Everything starts at the top.
Why should any of us believe government stats when the president of the United States does not believe any gov info that goes against his desired facts?

You can post stats until the sun dont shine, we will just take Putin's word for it instead.

Lol so you're just as good as Trump in that regard. I thought he wasnt someone to be emulated?
 
It would stop the problem at the border. It won't account for the 45% that overstay their visa.

But if you can cut 12 million illegals down to 5.5 million, that's incredible progress.
I'd like to know where all these new illegals are coming from. If they caught 100,000 in the last month, and it's been said that many more slip through undetected, where the heck do they come from? 100,000 in a month is about 25,000 a week. The big caravan they made such a big deal about recently was only 6 or 7000 people that took 2 or 3 months to get here from another country. How the heck is there all of a sudden 25,000 a WEEK crossing the border illegally, with more sneaking in? Mexico must must shipping out ALL of their people for 500 miles around the border to have that many every week!
 
If 100,000 have come across in the last month (which I dont believe at all) then Trump wanted them to come across to give him evidence for his "emergency". If true, he allowed it to happen. Come on bro.
 
I'd like to know where all these new illegals are coming from. If they caught 100,000 in the last month, and it's been said that many more slip through undetected, where the heck do they come from? 100,000 in a month is about 25,000 a week. The big caravan they made such a big deal about recently was only 6 or 7000 people that took 2 or 3 months to get here from another country. How the heck is there all of a sudden 25,000 a WEEK crossing the border illegally, with more sneaking in? Mexico must must shipping out ALL of their people for 500 miles around the border to have that many every week!

I've provided you the numbers. It's not just me pulling stuff out of thin air. Either do your due diligence or accept that the numbers presented are real. Just because you dont understand it doesnt mean it isnt happening.
 
If 100,000 have come across in the last month (which I dont believe at all) then Trump wanted them to come across to give him evidence for his "emergency". If true, he allowed it to happen. Come on bro.

Provide evidence not speculation.

*Twitter posts are not evidence.
 
I've provided you the numbers. It's not just me pulling stuff out of thin air. Either do your due diligence or accept that the numbers presented are real. Just because you dont understand it doesnt mean it isnt happening.
So tell me where all these people are coming from. I saw woman on TV the other day that said she used to work for CBP on the border, now she works to help the people thrown into the mess. She said this is a manufactured crisis, that this administration is letting them in at the border in big numbers then putting them under bridges, or where ever, for a couple of days then loading them on busses and turning them out in the streets in various places to make it look like they are overwhelmed and show a crisis for TV cameras. Remember the big caravan that came along and we made the stay on the Mexican side of the border? Why are we all of a sudden letting them all in at once if not for show? Once again this NOT the biggest number of illegals to be picked up in a month, it's the biggest since 2008. Why weren't we so overwhelmed back then then? I ain't there and I don't know the real situation, I also don't how the hell that many people out of the blue can be showing up on our border all of a sudden. There is supposed to be another caravan on the way like the first one, but it takes them a long time to get here.
 
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