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AR-15

Duck_walk

Well-Known Member
Oct 17, 2002
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The killing potential of a gun is primarily based on the amount of energy imparted by the bullet when it strikes the body. The bullet’s kinetic energy is equal to half of the bullet weight multiplied by the speed of the bullet when fired, squared — in other words, the velocity that a gun can impart on a bullet is the dominant factor in determining its killing potential.

The 9mm handgun is generally regarded as an effective weapon; its bullet travels at 1,200 feet per second and delivers a kinetic energy of 400 foot pounds. By comparison, the standard AR-15 bullet travels at 3,251 feet per second and delivers 1300 foot pounds.

Tissue destruction of the AR-15 is further enhanced by cavitation, which is the destruction of tissue beyond the direct pathway of the bullet; this occurs with high velocity bullets because their kinetic energies are over 2,500 foot pounds.

To compare again, a typical 9mm handgun wound to the liver will produce a pathway of tissue destruction in the order of 1-2 inches. In comparison, an AR-15 round to the liver will literally pulverize it, much like dropping a watermelon onto concrete results in the destruction of the watermelon. Wounds like this, as one sees in school shootings like Sandy Hook and Parkland where AR-15s were used, have high fatality rates.

The AR-15 is, by design, easier to shoot accurately and rapidly than a typical hunting rifle because it mitigates recoil. The standard AR-15 bullet, as previously stated, carries kinetic energy of 1300 foot pounds; a typical hunting rifle bullet has between 2600 and 4000 foot pounds, meaning it has greater recoil. The excessive recoil of a hunting rifle precludes rapid firing on target, because of the obligatory motion of the gun and its impact on the shooter. But the moderate energy of the AR-15 allows shooting on target literally as rapidly as the trigger can be pulled, while providing ample bullet speed to inflict lethal wounds.

The efficiency of the AR-15 is further compounded by large capacity ammunition magazines that permit feeding 30 or more bullets into the rifle without reloading.

Mass shootings with high fatalities are fundamentally the result of the combination of a deranged individual who wants to end the lives of a large number of random humans and his or her ability to access an assault rifle. And while there is no real debate about the need for improved mental health care in the United States, any discussion of limiting civilians’ access to assault rifles has been a political non-starter for far too long. We’re not likely to be able to institutionalize every person who might be willing to commit a heinous crime, but we can take away their access to the most lethal weapon for doing so with a stroke of a pen.
 
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The killing potential of a gun is primarily based on the amount of energy imparted by the bullet when it strikes the body. The bullet’s kinetic energy is equal to half of the bullet weight multiplied by the speed of the bullet when fired, squared — in other words, the velocity that a gun can impart on a bullet is the dominant factor in determining its killing potential.

The 9mm handgun is generally regarded as an effective weapon; its bullet travels at 1,200 feet per second and delivers a kinetic energy of 400 foot pounds. By comparison, the standard AR-15 bullet travels at 3,251 feet per second and delivers 1300 foot pounds.

Tissue destruction of the AR-15 is further enhanced by cavitation, which is the destruction of tissue beyond the direct pathway of the bullet; this occurs with high velocity bullets because their kinetic energies are over 2,500 foot pounds.

To compare again, a typical 9mm handgun wound to the liver will produce a pathway of tissue destruction in the order of 1-2 inches. In comparison, an AR-15 round to the liver will literally pulverize it, much like dropping a watermelon onto concrete results in the destruction of the watermelon. Wounds like this, as one sees in school shootings like Sandy Hook and Parkland where AR-15s were used, have high fatality rates.

The AR-15 is, by design, easier to shoot accurately and rapidly than a typical hunting rifle because it mitigates recoil. The standard AR-15 bullet, as previously stated, carries kinetic energy of 1300 foot pounds; a typical hunting rifle bullet has between 2600 and 4000 foot pounds, meaning it has greater recoil. The excessive recoil of a hunting rifle precludes rapid firing on target, because of the obligatory motion of the gun and its impact on the shooter. But the moderate energy of the AR-15 allows shooting on target literally as rapidly as the trigger can be pulled, while providing ample bullet speed to inflict lethal wounds.

The efficiency of the AR-15 is further compounded by large capacity ammunition magazines that permit feeding 30 or more bullets into the rifle without reloading.

Mass shootings with high fatalities are fundamentally the result of the combination of a deranged individual who wants to end the lives of a large number of random humans and his or her ability to access an assault rifle. And while there is no real debate about the need for improved mental health care in the United States, any discussion of limiting civilians’ access to assault rifles has been a political non-starter for far too long. We’re not likely to be able to institutionalize every person who might be willing to commit a heinous crime, but we can take away their access to the most lethal weapon for doing so with a stroke of a pen.
Duck, I love you, but it's not just the big, bad AR-15. The whole argument here, I think, is the damage the round does as well as the fact that there's a large mag as well. The AR-15 uses Rem .223 or Nato 5.56 and these are both used in many other rifles (even more standard looking hunting rifles). Take a look at this rifle https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...-223-remington-185-barrel-51-rounds?a=1795479 . It fires the exact same rounds an AR-15 does and you can purchase larger magazines for it. Now, if you want to have a conversation about those magazines, I'm all for it. But I just want you to know it's not just the "bad looking, assault rifle" types that can do this sort of thing.
 
Duck, I love you, but it's not just the big, bad AR-15. The whole argument here, I think, is the damage the round does as well as the fact that there's a large mag as well. The AR-15 uses Rem .223 or Nato 5.56 and these are both used in many other rifles (even more standard looking hunting rifles). Take a look at this rifle https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...-223-remington-185-barrel-51-rounds?a=1795479 . It fires the exact same rounds an AR-15 does and you can purchase larger magazines for it. Now, if you want to have a conversation about those magazines, I'm all for it. But I just want you to know it's not just the "bad looking, assault rifle" types that can do this sort of thing.

When most people are saying AR-15 we arent saying ONLY AR-15s. But if we use the term assault weapon or military style weapon gun nuts go into convulsions because they have some specific definition that we dont care about to try to minimize our opinion like we dont matter.
 
Duck, I love you, but it's not just the big, bad AR-15. The whole argument here, I think, is the damage the round does as well as the fact that there's a large mag as well. The AR-15 uses Rem .223 or Nato 5.56 and these are both used in many other rifles (even more standard looking hunting rifles). Take a look at this rifle https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...-223-remington-185-barrel-51-rounds?a=1795479 . It fires the exact same rounds an AR-15 does and you can purchase larger magazines for it. Now, if you want to have a conversation about those magazines, I'm all for it. But I just want you to know it's not just the "bad looking, assault rifle" types that can do this sort of thing.
Then tell us why this seems to be the weapon of choice so many times. They can get it, they can get the, ammo and a large magazine, it's apparently easier to carry and fire faster. I don't understand the opposition to stopping the sale of an otherwise pretty useless gun. What do you hunt with an AR-15 and why would you use it when there are many other options to hunt with? Why does anybody spend good money on such a gun?
 
In all my many years of education, and observing the youngsters that are of high school age today compared to what I encountered 30 years ago, things have changed. A new Armalite Rifle (AR) should not be available for a 18, 19 year old etc... I hate to say it, its no secret, but generally people are just so much more not normal. (For lack of a better explanation). Most of the kid's are good kids, but they're just so stupid. The habitual discipline problems literally get away with too much. I can say beyond a shadow of doubt I've been overly nice to kids like the idiot in Florida.
I'm for fortifying our schools with security, and an outright ban of all the sale of guns, new or used.
 
Then tell us why this seems to be the weapon of choice so many times. They can get it, they can get the, ammo and a large magazine, it's apparently easier to carry and fire faster. I don't understand the opposition to stopping the sale of an otherwise pretty useless gun. What do you hunt with an AR-15 and why would you use it when there are many other options to hunt with? Why does anybody spend good money on such a gun?

Statistics dating back to 1982 show that rifles were used in 24.5% of mass shooting falling way short of handguns at 46.2%. Maybe this statistic is changing in recent shootings, I don't know.

Handguns are also readily available, ammo accessible, large mags and easier to conceal.

As to your assertion that the AR-15 is a pretty worthless gun, I don't understand. It functions just like other semi-automatic firearms in many calibers. It is used to hunt whitetail deer, coyotes, and varmints. The guns are low-maintenance, easy to clean, impervious to weather, very reliable and virtually indestructible.

Hopefully this answers some of your questions.
 
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Trump in 2000

"I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I also support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun," he said.
 
Statistics dating back to 1982 show that rifles were used in 24.5% of mass shooting falling way short of handguns at 46.2%. Maybe this statistic is changing in recent shootings, I don't know.

Handguns are also readily available, ammo accessible, large mags and easier to conceal.

As to your assertion that the AR-15 is a pretty worthless gun, I don't understand. It functions just like other semi-automatic firearms in many calibers. It is used to hunt whitetail deer, coyotes, and varmints. The guns are low-maintenance, easy to clean, impervious to weather, very reliable and virtually indestructible.

Hopefully this answers some of your questions.
Handguns are the main source of gun deaths in the US, but assault rifles have grown more popular for mass casualty shootings (say, 5+ deaths)

We focus a lot on mass casualty events because they are newsworthy, but the real story of gun violence in the US (homicide and suicide) is largely a discussion of handguns
 
Handguns are the main source of gun deaths in the US, but assault rifles have grown more popular for mass casualty shootings (say, 5+ deaths)

We focus a lot on mass casualty events because they are newsworthy, but the real story of gun violence in the US (homicide and suicide) is largely a discussion of handguns

You bring this up every time. That is a different topic . one step at a time bro.
 
When most people are saying AR-15 we arent saying ONLY AR-15s. But if we use the term assault weapon or military style weapon gun nuts go into convulsions because they have some specific definition that we dont care about to try to minimize our opinion like we dont matter.
I don't intend to minimize your opinion at all. I just wanted to make sure the understanding was there that it wasn't only "assault style" weapons that could fall into this category. It appears you're aware of that, already, so carry on. My mistake.
 
The killing potential of a gun is primarily based on the amount of energy imparted by the bullet when it strikes the body. The bullet’s kinetic energy is equal to half of the bullet weight multiplied by the speed of the bullet when fired, squared — in other words, the velocity that a gun can impart on a bullet is the dominant factor in determining its killing potential.

The 9mm handgun is generally regarded as an effective weapon; its bullet travels at 1,200 feet per second and delivers a kinetic energy of 400 foot pounds. By comparison, the standard AR-15 bullet travels at 3,251 feet per second and delivers 1300 foot pounds.

Tissue destruction of the AR-15 is further enhanced by cavitation, which is the destruction of tissue beyond the direct pathway of the bullet; this occurs with high velocity bullets because their kinetic energies are over 2,500 foot pounds.

To compare again, a typical 9mm handgun wound to the liver will produce a pathway of tissue destruction in the order of 1-2 inches. In comparison, an AR-15 round to the liver will literally pulverize it, much like dropping a watermelon onto concrete results in the destruction of the watermelon. Wounds like this, as one sees in school shootings like Sandy Hook and Parkland where AR-15s were used, have high fatality rates.

The AR-15 is, by design, easier to shoot accurately and rapidly than a typical hunting rifle because it mitigates recoil. The standard AR-15 bullet, as previously stated, carries kinetic energy of 1300 foot pounds; a typical hunting rifle bullet has between 2600 and 4000 foot pounds, meaning it has greater recoil. The excessive recoil of a hunting rifle precludes rapid firing on target, because of the obligatory motion of the gun and its impact on the shooter. But the moderate energy of the AR-15 allows shooting on target literally as rapidly as the trigger can be pulled, while providing ample bullet speed to inflict lethal wounds.

The efficiency of the AR-15 is further compounded by large capacity ammunition magazines that permit feeding 30 or more bullets into the rifle without reloading.

Mass shootings with high fatalities are fundamentally the result of the combination of a deranged individual who wants to end the lives of a large number of random humans and his or her ability to access an assault rifle. And while there is no real debate about the need for improved mental health care in the United States, any discussion of limiting civilians’ access to assault rifles has been a political non-starter for far too long. We’re not likely to be able to institutionalize every person who might be willing to commit a heinous crime, but we can take away their access to the most lethal weapon for doing so with a stroke of a pen.

The killing potential of a gun is only determined by the person aiming it and pulling the trigger

Comparing an anemic 9mm handgun round to ANY rifle round is just ignorant
 
The killing potential of a gun is only determined by the person aiming it and pulling the trigger

Comparing an anemic 9mm handgun round to ANY rifle round is just ignorant

Look WcFan has another handle. Nice try.
Why do you hate high school kids?
 
Statistics dating back to 1982 show that rifles were used in 24.5% of mass shooting falling way short of handguns at 46.2%. Maybe this statistic is changing in recent shootings, I don't know.

Handguns are also readily available, ammo accessible, large mags and easier to conceal.

As to your assertion that the AR-15 is a pretty worthless gun, I don't understand. It functions just like other semi-automatic firearms in many calibers. It is used to hunt whitetail deer, coyotes, and varmints. The guns are low-maintenance, easy to clean, impervious to weather, very reliable and virtually indestructible.

Hopefully this answers some of your questions.
I guess but how many shots do need, or get, when trying to kill a deer, Coyote or other varmints? I'm guessin 2 or 3 would be the most realistically speaking and I'd bet 1 is it most of the time. So WHY do you need a 30 round magazine for hunting?
 
You absolutely do not need a 30 round magazine . Period.

I agree

The AR is legal to deer hunt with a 10 round mag, and that is what I use.

I see no need for high capacity magazines for civilian use.
 
You absolutely do not need a 30 round magazine . Period.

I agree

The AR is legal to deer hunt with a 10 round mag, and that is what I use.

I see no need for high capacity magazines for civilian use.
You don't get 10 shots at a deer either. :cool: But 10 is much better than 30 without reloading. Maybe no gun should be so easy to reload so quickly as pulling out one magazine and slapping another one in. You don't need that for hunting either. I used to have a .410 with a 3 shot clip, that's plenty for shooting squirrels and rabbits and it didn't tear them up as bad as the big shotguns.
 
You don't get 10 shots at a deer either. :cool: But 10 is much better than 30 without reloading. Maybe no gun should be so easy to reload so quickly as pulling out one magazine and slapping another one in. You don't need that for hunting either. I used to have a .410 with a 3 shot clip, that's plenty for shooting squirrels and rabbits and it didn't tear them up as bad as the big shotguns.

Honestly, I use a 410 single shot Stevens when hunting rabbits. Why did you use a 410 with so much firepower?
 
The AR-15 is designed to Kill People and that is what these killers are proving. We don't need them or any other assault style weapons in private hands.

WHO has said AR-15 are NEEDED?
All guns are designed to kill when fired!

No gun kills......people kill.
Nothing you say changes that fact.
 
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If this KILLER would have gone into that school with a bolt action 22 instead of an AR-15 my bet is that he would have been taken down pretty quick.
 
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If this KILLER would have gone into that school with a bolt action 22 instead of an AR-15 my bet is that he would have been taken down pretty quick.

People, especially high school kids are so known for charging at rifles fired their way. Who exactly was going to take him down?
 
Honestly, I use a 410 single shot Stevens when hunting rabbits. Why did you use a 410 with so much firepower?
That's what it came with and I wasn't the best shot around so I didn't have to reload before I found another beast to slay. :D
 
I think that a Coach put himself in the line of fire to save some kids. Maybe he would have stood a better chance against a .22 Bottom line is there shouldn't be assault weapons in private hands. You just don't get it.
 
I think that a Coach put himself in the line of fire to save some kids. Maybe he would have stood a better chance against a .22 Bottom line is there shouldn't be assault weapons in private hands. You just don't get it.
No, you don't get it. I can let everyone in my workplace have an AR-15 in their work area and that wouldn't make the place unsafe.
I can let everyone in the mental hospital have a baseball bat and it would be an unsafe place!
The weapon doesn't define whether we are safe.
 
No, you don't get it. I can let everyone in my workplace have an AR-15 in their work area and that wouldn't make the place unsafe.
I can let everyone in the mental hospital have a baseball bat and it would be an unsafe place!
The weapon doesn't define whether we are safe.
True but a mental patient with access to a baseball bat is going to do less damage than a mental patient with an AR
 
True but a mental patient with access to a baseball bat is going to do less damage than a mental patient with an AR
You mean I couldn't kill 50 people in a matter of minutes with a baseball bat like I could with an AR?

Or that good guys with bats would be there to stop me?
 
You mean I couldn't kill 50 people in a matter of minutes with a baseball bat like I could with an AR?

Or that good guys with bats would be there to stop me?

I read today that U.S. women have almost exactly the same percentage of mental issues as U.S. men. But that cant be true because they almost never slaughter kids in a school or movie goers or concert goers.
And everyone knows its a mental issue and not a gun issue, right?
 
I read today that U.S. women have almost exactly the same percentage of mental issues as U.S. men. But that cant be true because they almost never slaughter kids in a school or movie goers or concert goers.
And everyone knows its a mental issue and not a gun issue, right?
You mean I couldn't kill 50 people in a matter of minutes with a baseball bat like I could with an AR?

Or that good guys with bats would be there to stop me?
I think a person could walk into a grade school and bash in dozens of children's heads in a matter of minutes with a metal baseball bat

Not a very good argument
 
I think that a Coach put himself in the line of fire to save some kids. Maybe he would have stood a better chance against a .22 Bottom line is there shouldn't be assault weapons in private hands. You just don't get it.
Too bad the coach wasn't armed so he could have done more than just be a human shield
 
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Then tell us why this seems to be the weapon of choice so many times. They can get it, they can get the, ammo and a large magazine, it's apparently easier to carry and fire faster. I don't understand the opposition to stopping the sale of an otherwise pretty useless gun. What do you hunt with an AR-15 and why would you use it when there are many other options to hunt with? Why does anybody spend good money on such a gun?
The 2nd Amendment to our constitution doesn't say anything about hunting. A very small percentage of people use their firearms for hunting at all.

The AR platform is about as good of a home self defense weapon as you could imagine
 
I think a person could walk into a grade school and bash in dozens of children's heads in a matter of minutes with a metal baseball bat

Not a very good argument
Yeah

And with an AR, that same person could kill the entire class. Great counter argument
 
Yeah

And with an AR, that same person could kill the entire class. Great counter argument

So a person can kill 20 kids in 5 minutes with a baseball bat and that's ok with you???

How many deaths break the threshold for you people

I would think one death would be too many. Keep evil people out to start with,,,,and have well trained armed people to confront them if they do get in might actually save many lives
 
So a person can kill 20 kids in 5 minutes with a baseball bat and that's ok with you???

How many deaths break the threshold for you people

I would think one death would be too many. Keep evil people out to start with,,,,and have well trained armed people to confront them if they do get in might actually save many lives
I guess you don't think a bunch of teenagers in a classroom would run and hide while a another kid beat everyone they could get to with a bat? I'm pretty sure they would have a high degree of success tackling a kid with bat with very few injuries and most likely NO fatalities. :confused:
 
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I guess you don't think a bunch of teenagers in a classroom would run and hide while a another kid beat everyone they could get to with a bat? I'm pretty sure they would have a high degree of success tackling a kid with bat with very few injuries and most likely NO fatalities. :confused:
What about like Sandy Hook and it's grade school kids with an adult taking their heads off with a good swing

Baseball bat never needs reloaded and makes no noise,,,,pretty good weapon
 
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