Another innocent child killed in STL

[kaskaskiakid]

A 9 yr old boy sitting on his front porch was shot and killed in STL yesterday.

What we, as a nation, have allowed to happen on the streets and the neighborhoods of our cities is a national disgrace. I have advocated for years that we bring in the Nat Guard (and military) to take back the streets of our cities. No one can convince me that we don't have resources to do so. And no one can convince me that we would ever allow the nightly gun violence in white America.

We send troops all over the world to police, but we can't police our own cities. Our city law enforcement don't have the resources and manpower to control the gangs, let alone make any progress in eliminating them. We seemed to have thrown our hands up in the air, and nothing changes year after year. I say flood the streets with armed patrols in these gang-infested areas, declare martial law, do whatever it takes so that 9 year old little boys don't get gunned down on their front porches.

 

[r14veer]

A 9 yr old boy sitting on his front porch was shot and killed in STL yesterday.

What we, as a nation, have allowed to happen on the streets and the neighborhoods of our cities is a national disgrace. I have advocated for years that we bring in the Nat Guard (and military) to take back the streets of our cities. No one can convince me that we don't have resources to do so. And no one can convince me that we would ever allow the nightly gun violence in white America.

We send troops all over the world to police, but we can't police our own cities. Our city law enforcement don't have the resources and manpower to control the gangs, let alone make any progress in eliminating them. We seemed to have thrown our hands up in the air, and nothing changes year after year. I say flood the streets with armed patrols in these gang-infested areas, declare martial law, do whatever it takes so that 9 year old little boys don't get gunned down on their front porches.

The relationship of poverty to crime is well-documented. Gangs exist because of the conditions of poverty. Poverty and the systemic conditions that perpetuate it are the problem. Solve those, you solve poverty, and you significantly and meaningfully reduce crime.

However, since we as a society absolutely refuse to more than half-heartedly attempt to solve the main issue, yeah, occupation and enforcement through martial law could be the logical next step, but it could never end as long as the systemic conditions aren't addressed.

The good thing is that crime would almost certainly be reduced. The bad thing is that a generation of children would grow up under what would basically be military occupation, not to mention the psychology of being "the Other," which doesn't typically end well. We've been creating enemies in other countries this way (and via "collateral damage") for a looooong time.

 

[kaskaskiakid]

I totally agree with you on this and you are spot on with the solution. The problem is that the Democratic leadership in most of the major cities would never let that happen. It would be considered racism. It is so sad that St. Louis is one of the most violent cities in the country.

The young Bosley, I believe an alderman and democrat, has been pleading for a couple years also to bring in the Nat Guard, military police, whoever, to end the violence and killings. I believe the law abiding citizens in those neighborhoods would welcome whoever to make their homes and children safe. Law and order would bring more neighborhood businesses. People don't want to lock up the criminals because we would have to target blacks in their neighborhoods. And people are afraid to speak up as witnesses for fear of retaliation.

We cannot keep doing what we are doing and expect different results. We have to start with restoring law and order. There is no other way.

 

[bullitpdq68]

The issue is not caused by the Democrats or Republicans ideas or beliefs, my aunt and uncle live on a 400 acre farm down here in SWMO pretty much Pub land! And they have probable just as much issues with crime per capita as the large Metro areas who are control by the Dems difference is you just don't go down to those areas late at night. There are places down there I won't go after dark and I tell my kids not to go because the crime and drugs are so bad, and these guys are white flying confederate flags or don't tread on me Trump bumper sticker guys. The issue is not race it is not the area, crime affects us all, it is everywhere in Dem areas as well as Pub.

The issue today is it is easier to go take what you want than it is to work for it. And what can people make easy money in DRUGS!!! It is a big city small city issue!!! Because we keep trying to outlaw it there is so much money to be made in it and it is easy money a way out of rural or city issues. Like the old prohibition days when Crime syndicates controlled the alcohol sales and distribution today it is Gangs controlling drugs, causing crime sprees in rural or Bid city America.

 

[MGHS]

You can't fix a broken Culture with a Armed presence.....the culture would just turn on the armed presence. The issue cannot be fixed from the outside it can only be fixed from the inside. And at this point and time there is no urgency to change the status quo. Throwing money at the problem isn't the answer. Changing the Value system and Norms and Mores is the only answer. But again nobody has any real interest in that at all. The only path that is ever taken is to set up a gov. program that gives away more benefits and while that does raise the level of benefits and wealth it doesn't address the problem of lack of work ethic, value in education,controlling the birth rate and the issue of violence.

Having worked in the Gov. Benefit arena relieving people of the burden of providing for themselves doesn't encourage wise decisions or responsibility. It has the opposite effect. Once the Burden of all basic responsibilities are no longer a issue then it is much easier to engage in illegal activity to supply one with material things and entertainment pursuits ie....a lot of partying which all that entails and that leads to a lot of unwanted children and broken families and so the cycle continues.

Why work a lower level job if all basic needs are provided for and then you have free time to sell drugs,snatch and grab in petty theft, make money in sex work, and engage in other scams as well.....some of you might be surprised at how adept this class is at on line scamming...I was.

Using Force to occupy these area's clearly would not fix the problem and actually make it worse. Forcing people to work at multiple lower level jobs to survive and subsist would go a long ways to heal the issue of poverty. Sure one generation would have to gut it out but the next generation would then value education and hard work and take that path out of the swamp. Because that would be the only avenue they could take.

But of course the actual cure is not Palatable to American, to harsh, and to painful for the weak Middle Class and Upper Crust.

So instead as I stated we will just throw more money at the problem and hope it works.....we do that because it's easy. And everyone feels good after wards...hey we are spending more surely the problem is fixed!!

So my advice is that people just get use to these things happening.

 

[kaskaskiakid]

Doing nothing has never been the solution to a problem.

 

[MGHS]

I agree but my point is that the solution to the problem will never be undertaken because it would actually entail some harsh circumstances that America can't emotionally swallow.

So instead we will throw Millions and Billions at the problem and it will have zero chance of being a solution. We have been following this path for over 60 years and it has failed.

I suspect we will continue to go down the Road of Failure with Egg Heads and Bleeding hearts truly believing they can out wit, think and scheme human nature and a broken culture By handing out trinkets and Free benefits.

 

[r14veer]

I agree but my point is that the solution to the problem will never be undertaken because it would actually entail some harsh circumstances that America can't emotionally swallow.

So instead we will throw Millions and Billions at the problem and it will have zero chance of being a solution. We have been following this path for over 60 years and it has failed.

I suspect we will continue to go down the Road of Failure with Egg Heads and Bleeding hearts truly believing they can out wit, think and scheme human nature and a broken culture By handing out trinkets and Free benefits.

Anti-intellectualism needs no introduction in our world, nor does the refusal to take this stuff seriously.

 

[MOpossum]

And when prisoners riot in St Louis their Democrat US Rep sides with them

 

[SadButTrue]

And when prisoners riot in St Louis their Democrat US Rep sides with them

You mean like trump always did with Putin? I hear ya.

 

[3Rfan]

You mean like trump always did with Putin? I hear ya.

And the crowd that crashed into to the Capitol.

 

[MGHS]

Anti-intellectualism needs no introduction in our world, nor does the refusal to take this stuff seriously.

Have to admit your response is somewhat vague.....are you pointing out to me that...

The failed policies of the Egg Heads and Bleeding Hearts that have been the master piece of failure for over 60 years ....is Anti-intellectualism and they don't take the problem seriously?

Or are you making a Point to say I'm Anti-intellectual and not taking this seriously because I'm pointing out that 60 years of failed policy that has made things worse over those decades is controlled by the supposed intellectual elites?

It's in the wee hours of the early morning so my mind is a bit clouded.

Clearly the Problem is serious and clearly those in Charge no matter the Sheepskins they have earned have almost zero acumen on how to fix the problem and at worst they might well not be vested in actually fixing the problem.

IF the Powers that be who are in charge lack the basic comprehension on the situation and don't learn from over 6 decades of making the same mistakes.....I doubt that the Normal taxpayer is going to be emotionally or financial invested in the Issue.

 

[r14veer]

Have to admit your response is somewhat vague.....are you pointing out to me that...

The failed policies of the Egg Heads and Bleeding Hearts that have been the master piece of failure for over 60 years ....is Anti-intellectualism and they don't take the problem seriously?

Or are you making a Point to say I'm Anti-intellectual and not taking this seriously because I'm pointing out that 60 years of failed policy that has made things worse over those decades is controlled by the supposed intellectual elites?

It's in the wee hours of the early morning so my mind is a bit clouded.

Clearly the Problem is serious and clearly those in Charge no matter the Sheepskins they have earned have almost zero acumen on how to fix the problem and at worst they might well not be vested in actually fixing the problem.

IF the Powers that be who are in charge lack the basic comprehension on the situation and don't learn from over 6 decades of making the same mistakes.....I doubt that the Normal taxpayer is going to be emotionally or financial invested in the Issue.

It's not really aimed at anyone in particular. I'm pointing out that blaming intellectual elites has been in fashion for the whole of human existence. It rightly blames them for many of society's failings; a lot of their ideas have been really stupid, without thought (or maybe worse, without concern) for the unintended consequences. It also ignores that the bulk of the ideas that have moved humanity forward in every field have overwhelmingly come from those same intellectual elites. They do deserve most of the blame, but they also deserve most of the credit.

The other thing I was pointing out is that caring for other human beings, as instructed by the books that supposedly guide the lives and behavior of a large portion of the world, has never been taken near as seriously as intended. For most it seems that the prevailing attitude is this: we should help people, as long as I'm not made to feel uncomfortable or inconvenienced in any way by it.

 

[bullitpdq68]

It's not really aimed at anyone in particular. I'm pointing out that blaming intellectual elites has been in fashion for the whole of human existence. It rightly blames them for many of society's failings; a lot of their ideas have been really stupid, without thought (or maybe worse, without concern) for the unintended consequences. It also ignores that the bulk of the ideas that have moved humanity forward in every field have overwhelmingly come from those same intellectual elites. They do deserve most of the blame, but they also deserve most of the credit.

The other thing I was pointing out is that caring for other human beings, as instructed by the books that supposedly guide the lives and behavior of a large portion of the world, has never been taken near as seriously as intended. For most it seems that the prevailing attitude is this: we should help people, as long as I'm not made to feel uncomfortable or inconvenienced in any way by it.

Sometimes it is just hard to continue to help those who continue to go down the same path and continue to blame others and not themselves for the reasons they are in the position they are in. At some point those you are helping have to help themselves!!

Biggest example I see right now is all of these stimulus checks people are getting, these are a golden opportunity for many to help themselves for months to come it could be life changing for many....but that is not what many are doing with it. I was at our local walmart this weekend and I think every TV was sold out, so many were already spending the check before it has even came in on things that will not help them or thier family down the road. But in two months they will be bitching they cannot feed thier families again.. but they can sure watch TV or sit in a nice recliner.

I have volunteered in our community, However after awhile you begin to become jaded as you see the same people facing the same issue each week after week because they just refuse to help themselves.....they want the free hand out and once you figure that out they move on to the next one. I know not all are that way.... but it sure feels like a majority can sure be like that. Many within would offer to find jobs for some however some would bitch because they were not looking for work, they were looking for food... a hand out. Others would move on to the next Food pantry or Church and bitch to them, because so and so charity stopped helping them or kept offering them a job...on my.

 

[r14veer]

Sometimes it is just hard to continue to help those who continue to go down the same path and continue to blame others and not themselves for the reasons they are in the position they are in. At some point those you are helping have to help themselves!!

Biggest example I see right now is all of these stimulus checks people are getting, these are a golden opportunity for many to help themselves for months to come it could be life changing for many....but that is not what many are doing with it. I was at our local walmart this weekend and I think every TV was sold out, so many were already spending the check before it has even came in on things that will not help them or thier family down the road. But in two months they will be bitching they cannot feed thier families again.. but they can sure watch TV or sit in a nice recliner.

I have volunteered in our community, However after awhile you begin to become jaded as you see the same people facing the same issue each week after week because they just refuse to help themselves.....they want the free hand out and once you figure that out they move on to the next one. I know not all are that way.... but it sure feels like a majority can sure be like that. Many within would offer to find jobs for some however some would bitch because they were not looking for work, they were looking for food... a hand out. Others would move on to the next Food pantry or Church and bitch to them, because so and so charity stopped helping them or kept offering them a job...on my.

Oh, I definitely feel the same way. But it isn't consistent with what is taught.

 

[kaskaskiakid]

Oh, I definitely feel the same way. But it isn't consistent with what is taught.

So it's teachers fault?

 

[MGHS]

It's not really aimed at anyone in particular. I'm pointing out that blaming intellectual elites has been in fashion for the whole of human existence. It rightly blames them for many of society's failings; a lot of their ideas have been really stupid, without thought (or maybe worse, without concern) for the unintended consequences. It also ignores that the bulk of the ideas that have moved humanity forward in every field have overwhelmingly come from those same intellectual elites. They do deserve most of the blame, but they also deserve most of the credit.

The other thing I was pointing out is that caring for other human beings, as instructed by the books that supposedly guide the lives and behavior of a large portion of the world, has never been taken near as seriously as intended. For most it seems that the prevailing attitude is this: we should help people, as long as I'm not made to feel uncomfortable or inconvenienced in any way by it.

Thanks for the clarification....I do agree that the Egg heads do take some undo Blame, I should of refined my response to the Egg Heads who tend to Come from the Social Science Dept. and tend to Drive a lot of social reform aka....the Welfare Policies. Most of which have been failures to a large Degree.

I 100% agree with your Last Statement and I'm 100% in favor of that approach. I'm not My brothers Keeper. A person has no and Should have no obligation to Help any one that makes them feel uncomfortable or is a inconvenience's to them.

I'm in favor of all those books teach but at the end of the day Free Will should rule the day and shaming a person or forcing people to fork over the sweat of their labors to support many who put zero effort into their own basic needs is theft. And more egregious than ignoring those who can and should do for themselves....

 

[MGHS]

Sometimes it is just hard to continue to help those who continue to go down the same path and continue to blame others and not themselves for the reasons they are in the position they are in. At some point those you are helping have to help themselves!!

Biggest example I see right now is all of these stimulus checks people are getting, these are a golden opportunity for many to help themselves for months to come it could be life changing for many....but that is not what many are doing with it. I was at our local walmart this weekend and I think every TV was sold out, so many were already spending the check before it has even came in on things that will not help them or thier family down the road. But in two months they will be bitching they cannot feed thier families again.. but they can sure watch TV or sit in a nice recliner.

I have volunteered in our community, However after awhile you begin to become jaded as you see the same people facing the same issue each week after week because they just refuse to help themselves.....they want the free hand out and once you figure that out they move on to the next one. I know not all are that way.... but it sure feels like a majority can sure be like that. Many within would offer to find jobs for some however some would bitch because they were not looking for work, they were looking for food... a hand out. Others would move on to the next Food pantry or Church and bitch to them, because so and so charity stopped helping them or kept offering them a job...on my.

Now you are seeing the Light......As I have stated before I was a Income Maintenance worker for the State for several years...handing out Food Stamps/EBT cards, Medicaid, Medicare, AFDC etc. The Poor in America is a Scam to Make the Middle Class/Rich feel good about helping...the Ultimate in Co-dependency and Virtue Signaling. We called it the Gambit, get your Gov. benefits, then hit the circuit of Churches and other charities. One you have exhausted those then relocate and do it again. And let's not forget the Drugs and other Crime that are committed by these types. Idle hands are the Devils workshop..

I think I posted this before

 

[MGHS]

So it's teachers fault?

LOL teachers are not to Blame for Poor Parenting and the lack of success because those Parents don't value education or the other Norms and Mores of society....Teachers take to much blame in that area..... Now the System in which the Teachers work is Massively to blame because their idea of fixing the issue is throwing money at the problem or putting students into educational system that are foreign to them and which they are mostly destined to fail in.

My biggest issue with some not all teachers is that they fully endorse and support some of the Failed programs that have been around for decades. I also think Some...not all....Teachers need to speak up and be realistic about what some students are capable of ie.....College is not for everyone and that Vo-tech and Industrial Arts schools need to take a fore front.

 

[bullitpdq68]

Now you are seeing the Light......As I have stated before I was a Income Maintenance worker for the State for several years...handing out Food Stamps/EBT cards, Medicaid, Medicare, AFDC etc. The Poor in America is a Scam to Make the Middle Class/Rich feel good about helping...the Ultimate in Co-dependency and Virtue Signaling. We called it the Gambit, get your Gov. benefits, then hit the circuit of Churches and other charities. One you have exhausted those then relocate and do it again. And let's not forget the Drugs and other Crime that are committed by these types. Idle hands are the Devils workshop..

I think I posted this before

LOL, oh it's not for the lack of seeing the light. I understand how the system works. But while there is bad there is also good, however it is not the success stories you hear, it is the others.

 

[r14veer]

LOL teachers are not to Blame for Poor Parenting and the lack of success because those Parents don't value education or the other Norms and Mores of society....Teachers take to much blame in that area..... Now the System in which the Teachers work is Massively to blame because their idea of fixing the issue is throwing money at the problem or putting students into educational system that are foreign to them and which they are mostly destined to fail in.

My biggest issue with some not all teachers is that they fully endorse and support some of the Failed programs that have been around for decades. I also think Some...not all....Teachers need to speak up and be realistic about what some students are capable of ie.....College is not for everyone and that Vo-tech and Industrial Arts schools need to take a fore front.

Preach, brother. You can't expect a mule to win the Kentucky Derby, but mules do a lot of other useful things.

 

[r14veer]

So it's teachers fault?

You might have missed the context of the previous conversation. I was talking about what is taught in our holy books.